Author Topic: A Nation Of Cowards  (Read 47771 times)

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Offline karajorma

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I think guns give you a false comfort which you have to pay for. And I pay for enough things as it is.
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Offline TrashMan

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I have to agree with Kara. Guns give a false sense of security.

I suspect the reason some people are so attached to their guns is cause guns mean power. They don't want to give up their power.
Not to mention that guns serve as penis extensions and ego boosters to many.
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Offline Scotty

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I think it should be changed before it really gets out of hand.


My God, you are completely and totally oblivious to the state of affairs in Washington regarding the constitution, aren't you.  Half the s*** that goes on there shouldn't be, according to the constitution.  It hasn't gotten out of hand, the government has (Yay for the constitutional freedom to think and say that  :D)

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I think the laws may reduce the amount of crimes commited since their would be consequences.

Said it before, will have to say it again.  If someone is already going to break the law, why would they bother respecting the standing gun laws?  Answer:  No flippin' reason whatsoever.

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Doesn't hiding behind guns ... sound cowardly?

That statement makes the entire U.S. military a bunch of cowards that risk and lose their lives to protect yours.

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talk him into putting the gun down and talk about the consequences and to think about what he is doing 


If a guy is performing an armed robbery on your house, what makes you think he gives a f*** about what you're feeling?

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They say a truly mature and advanced society would have peace like never before.

In which case a truly mature and advanced society will never exist.  War is an inevitable facet of the human culture.  It happens because people compete with other people.  That competition escalates, and conflict begins.  War is unavoidable because different groups of people have mutually exclusive and conflicting aims and desires.

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Only fighting the threats.

And is a society to just sit back until the threat forces them on the defensive?  How can a government or people rationalize jeopardizing their citizens just for the sake of delaying war for a few more days or weeks?  It is dangerously irresponsible.

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I think those who carry guns so much are cowards and too scared to use other methods for defense and power.

Pretty strong statement.  Why not just expand it to all forms of martial practice, they can all be used as weapons?  Oh, wait.  No one gives a damn about swords, or bows, or deadly martial arts.  People are just scared s***less because guns look and sound scary.  You can go ahead and call everyone who learns a martial art a coward too, while you're at it.  Why are guns such a symbol of cowardice to you?

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most are too scared to use it anyways


And when you find one who isn't, have a happy funeral.

EDIT:  One of the largest forces for peace is war.  Check my sig.  Si vis pacem, para bellum.  It's Latin for "If you want peace, prepare for war."  What better way to stop war than to be seen as too costly/difficult to attack?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 08:01:49 pm by Scotty »

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Wasn't that the philosophy that almost blew the world up in 1961?
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Scotty

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? 1961?  That was the Bay of Pigs.  Are you thinking of 1963, with the Cuban Missile Crisis?  Russian advanced placement of specific offensive nuclear missiles is more provocation than it is defensive thinking.  Besides, they used it for quite a while up until then too.  It's called brinkmanship.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Yeah but your philosophy is deterrence, which leads to escalation, and eventually to brinksmanship.

I get an alarm to defend my home. Criminals get a knife to gut me before the police show up. I get a baseball bat to protect myself in addition to the alarm. Criminals come with a pistol. I get a pistol. Criminal gets a semi-auto, I get an auto.

Trying to look more menacing than the other guy to avoid being attacked is only a short-term solution. It's dangerous in the long run because eventually one side gets so far ahead the other side can't top them. Confrontation happens, one goes to hospital and the other to the morgue.

If you want peace, you should make war impossible or at least near impossible. As long as we're on the topic of JFK, then we should be focusing on eliminating poverty and disease rather than living in a world of fear where the only peace is kept by deterrence and the fear of reprisal.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Scotty

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If you want peace, you should make war impossible or at least near impossible.

what do you call MAD?  No country would willingly destroy itself and all its people like that by attacking anyone.  And they wouldn't attack because the other guy is just as big and scary as they are.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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But then the US gets a missile shield to stop Russia's nukes. Mutually assured destruction only works as a philosophy when destruction is mutual--both sides die. The escalation is endless, at least until the point where the other side gets the guts to strike before the other side can get powerful enough to put the fear of MAD back into effect.

Seriously, how much more forward would we all be if we didn't spend billions every year building the bigger stick to scare people off with?
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 
Seriously, how much more forward would we all be if we didn't spend billions every year building the bigger stick to scare people off with?
We would be nowhere, as the warmongers would overrun and conquer us pacifists.
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17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Seriously, how much more forward would we all be if we didn't spend billions every year building the bigger stick to scare people off with?
We would be nowhere, as the warmongers would overrun and conquer us pacifists.
Who is it this time, the big bad Commies the hidden terror cells or the Chinese? :rolleyes:

The whole point of having allies is not having to bear the sole burden for military defense.  When we're spending billions of dollars a year on military spending in wars where we have no support, and developing newer and shinier weapons we don't necessarily need, by ourselves, it only makes the situation worse.

I can guarantee I can find more examples of where war, dictatorship, and conflict was prevented by economic stability and aid than by where military force has been needed.  The US doesn't need a several billion dollar a year defense budget where humanitarianism and economic assistance can do the job without the cost of American lives and military resources.

Imagine what we could do with several billion dollars alloted to, say, health care, education, science, or technology.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 11:20:23 pm by nuclear1 »
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Scotty

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because for some people, the law is all that is holding them back.

Case in point, anything I was talking about them doing is against the law.  Moot point.

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I never asked to be protected and I don't want it.

Fine then, move somewhere else.

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Also, it is cowardice when they shoot down civiis and I feel anger thinking about it.

 :wtf:

Okay, to sum it up:  You think that the military is a bunch of cowards, partly because you didn't ask for it, and partly because you just don't like guns or people with guns.  That's about what it sounds like.  Were it not illegal and immoral, I would challenge you to be behind a gun and pull the trigger on someone.  It takes a lot more than a coward to do it.

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Because you are too scared to get too close and also want an unfair fight.


Being scared has nothing to do with it.  Getting close voluntarily is stupid in a fight, it gives them a better position on you.  Also, damn right I want an unfair fight.  You generally walk away from those more often.

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true strong minded thing to do would be to not fight and try to control yourself and reason with each other.

Tell ya what.  Why don't you head down to the Middle East and see how far that gets.  Ideals like that only work when the other side shares your values.

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Also, to put themselves in the situation of committing murder and throwing their lives away by going to prison shows lack of self respect since they basically threw their own future away

Problem is, most of them think that "oh, it'll never happen to me, I'm to good."  Besides, its their future, not anyone else's.  If they want to throw it away, they can be my guest.  I just take a small amount of comfort from the fact that if they come to my particular house, I can do more than just hope they are too nervous to pull the trigger.

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They should think with their brains, not with their emotions so much.

In a perfect world, Mr. Stoic.

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It isn't a problem if you are smart enough to avoid certain areas or situations

Yeah, like your house when you go to sleep at night and a robber breaks in.

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you are more likely to get shot

 :snipe:  (always wanted to use that one)

So be it. 

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Don't let the culture brainwash you because it seems that the USA likes war and I will have no part in this or anyone who thinks that way.

Merely because I support the values of my culture and my right to defend them does not mean that I have been brainwashed by it.  War is sometimes necessary.  It is also Hell, but a necessary Hell.  If you want to fool yourself into thinking that it never, ever has to come to that, go ahead.  I prefer to plan for the inevitable than put all my hopes on the infallibility of the human spirit :doubt:.

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Another thing is there is no such thing as a best country.

 :confused:  Did I accidentally say this somewhere?  Oh, wait.  Nope.

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To have peace, you must put certain differences aside (like religious beliefs), try to avoid misunderstandings and reason to remedy the misunderstandings before making a move, don't look for a fight, and cooperate. Get real.

Okay, go tell this to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Khaled Mashaal, Ismail Haniyah, Mahmoud Zahar, Robert Mugabe, Omar Al-Bashir, Kim Jong Ill, and any number of people who kill thousands of people on their way to power.  Why don't we just tell them to put their differences aside and co-operate.  Like that will ever happen.  :doubt:

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Also, the certain freedoms we have here come at an expensive price.

You know the old saying, "Freedom isn't free."  I'm not even going to address the rest of that demagogue because it wasn't the point of the argument (aside from pointing out that we have some of the best health care in the world, that even the poorest American is in the 10% richest people in the world bracket, excellent homeland security, and to top it off, excellent job opportunities, compared to the rest of the world.)

 

Offline Nuclear1

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some of the best health care in the world

:lol:

Compared with who? Nearly every other industrialized nation in Western Europe beats ours.  The UAE and Saudi Arabia were ranked higher by WHO.  We've got some serious work to do in that department.

We beat the pants off Africa though!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 01:07:21 am by nuclear1 »
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Scotty

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lol, being dead is better health care than in Africa.

EDIT:  also, maybe in availability, but they come nowhere close in terms of treatment ability.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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US is ranked 37th in performance, 72nd in overall level of health.

So yes, they actually surpass us by far in terms of treatment ability.  France is ranked 4th in overall health and 1st in performance, Italy is 3rd and 2nd, Oman is 1st and 8th, Spain is 6th and 7th.   
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Scotty

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touche.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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I get an alarm to defend my home. Criminals get a knife to gut me before the police show up.

Rank stupidity. Once the alarm has gone out their only viable option is to run. The police are going to come anyways, and killing you will only make the situation worse.

Get a different metaphor!
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Offline karajorma

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Police only turn up for alarms if they run long enough that someone calls them. If you can get to the houseowner and threaten them quickly the alarm will be probably be turned off fast enough that the neighbours will probably think it's an accidental triggering.

What a thief will do depends on how determined the criminal is to burgle your house.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Police only turn up for alarms if they run long enough that someone calls them. If you can get to the houseowner and threaten them quickly the alarm will be probably be turned off fast enough that the neighbours will probably think it's an accidental triggering.

What a thief will do depends on how determined the criminal is to burgle your house.

You appear to have some kind of stupidly designed alarm system for reference; any capable alarm system in the US will place a call directly to the police when it activates. Indeed, I don't think you can get another kind. Most of them are silent; most have at most a fifteen second window to get in the door and deactivate, plus a backup code that looks like deactivation but isn't if the system is not silent.

So no. Get a different metaphor.
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Offline karajorma

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Well if alarms are so good in the USA why would anyone need a gun for home defence against burglars then?

The only home defence need for them would then be against psychopaths, surely?
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Maybe you should read more carefully. I said reduce it, not stop it. It will stop the people who would not do it if it is a law. If it wasn't a law, then even the people who wouldn't do it might do it since it would be legal because for some people, the law is all that is holding them back. Understand?

If the law is holding people from shooting others, why ban guns anyway?

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Because you are too scared to get too close and also want an unfair fight.

No, he just wants to survive the fight. It's not like both sides agree with each other on a set of rules and see who's better, that's what sports are for.

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They can try putting the gun down and face me head on instead of hiding behind a weapon.

And what does putting the gun down give them?

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Actually, the true strong minded thing to do would be to not fight and try to control yourself and reason with each other.

So would you agree to give someone your wallet, cell phone and watch if he/she kindly requests them?

Yeah but your philosophy is deterrence, which leads to escalation, and eventually to brinksmanship.

I get an alarm to defend my home. Criminals get a knife to gut me before the police show up. I get a baseball bat to protect myself in addition to the alarm. Criminals come with a pistol. I get a pistol. Criminal gets a semi-auto, I get an auto.

Criminal goes to a house that has "This place is gun free" on it's front door, you are safe.

I think guns give you a false comfort which you have to pay for. And I pay for enough things as it is.

Same can be said about seat belts and airbags, but it doesn't mean it's true.

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I never asked to be protected and I don't want it.

How good are/were you in history @ school? There were dozens of countries and empires who figured they don't need any army or a strong army. They generally don't exist anymore

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true strong minded thing to do would be to not fight and try to control yourself and reason with each other.

Well, what happens when the criminal is not a strong minded person?

I'm not worried at all. I actually prefer speed and stealth or avoiding the situation if I have too. There are so many ways besides guns. You are thinking black and white. No matter what you do, you always take chances in life. So I don't worry too much about physical safety. It is good to use your brain and prevention is the best cure to most things in life.

So how exactly do you use speed and stealth?

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I live in a relatively safer state than you probably (Oregon).

Relatively your chances to win the lottery are hundreds of thousands times smaller than being a victim of a crime.

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Note that USA went overboard on Hiroshima

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
More people died on that small island than in both nukings together. What makes you think that the Battle of Honshū would have had a smaller casualty count than Okinawa? Predicted losses were in the millions (or tens of millions, don't remember right now).

But since it would have been a fair game, with no superweapons, you'd be just fine with that right?

P.S. I agree with Karajorma this time.

P.P.S Sorry for mixing up the posts a bit.


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