[Grizzly]

I have indeed shown this, you merely decided to look away and handwave everything, like you have always done. Your behavior will only surprise me when you begin to read reality correctly.

You can't even read my posts correctly! Why should I then trust your judgement on my ability to 'read reality correctly'?

[666maslo666]

Yes they are, I grew up on Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Disney movies, No One Lives Forever and Xena but nowadays many internet geeks seem to be afraid of having action heroines to the point I found myself arguing on comic book forums with people that thought the Wonder Woman movie was SJW pandering, and I mean WONDER WOMAN, which essentially is there with Superman and Batman in the DC characters roster.

Any backslash against wonder woman movie has absolutely nothing to do with people being afraid of female superheros, thats just illogical BS.

One issue is that Wonder Woman was traditionally quite sexualised, half-nude character. Yet this may change in the new movie.

This may have to do with possible SJW pandering, such as covering the hero up to avoid so called "sexualization", as it is deemed a politically incorrect thing. Essentially, it is pandering to regressive left (and ironically, also conservative right), with one of the those regressions being fear of sexual themes, instead of progressive approach characterised by sex positivity.

I wont judge the movie until it is out, but I understand the concerns of the fans. The concerns are about politicising the movie, not any fear of heroines, lol.

[Det. Bullock]

That's total bull****, Det. Bullock. I mean, 100% bull****. Explain to me why oh ****ing why is Jessica Jones so wildly popular in the "geek scene"? No. You can't. Discussion over.

???

I remember quite a lot of geeks throwing bull**** at it in forums, expecially those of the "I don't read anything that isn't drawn Jim Lee style" crowd, hell I remember reading a rant that analyzed why Jessica Jones was supposed to be SJW anti-man propaganda and another lamenting that there were too many women.
And let's not dive into the fact that I had to explain more than once why an award winning comic book series that coincidentally happened to be mostly street level was a good candidate for a TV show in the first place, perhaps it was a vocal minority but a degree of hostility was there and fortunately it has been drowned in the success the series had with the wider Netflix audience and critics but once in a while you get people yelling SJW at it.

Yes they are, I grew up on Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Disney movies, No One Lives Forever and Xena but nowadays many internet geeks seem to be afraid of having action heroines to the point I found myself arguing on comic book forums with people that thought the Wonder Woman movie was SJW pandering, and I mean WONDER WOMAN, which essentially is there with Superman and Batman in the DC characters roster.

Any backslash against wonder woman movie has absolutely nothing to do with people being afraid of female superheros, thats just illogical BS.

One issue is that Wonder Woman was traditionally quite sexualised, half-nude character. Yet this may change in the new movie.

This may have to do with possible SJW pandering, such as covering the hero up to avoid so called "sexualization", as it is deemed a politically incorrect thing. Essentially, it is pandering to regressive left, with one of the those regressions being fear of sexual themes, instead of progressive approach characterised by sex positivity.

I wont judge the movie until it is out, but I understand the concerns of the fans.

A lot of these detractors I met mentioned the "feminist agenda" or other similar catchphrases, I don't know where the rest of your post comes from really as the costume is more or less spot on relative to the comics just more armor-like instead of painted on with metal bits.

Also, sexualization is mostly depending on the artist, many tended to make her costume much skimpier than it really is.

[Luis Dias]

That's total bull****, Det. Bullock. I mean, 100% bull****. Explain to me why oh ****ing why is Jessica Jones so wildly popular in the "geek scene"? No. You can't. Discussion over.

???

I remember quite a lot of geeks throwing bull**** at it in forums, expecially those of the "I don't read anything that isn't drawn Jim Lee style" crowd, hell I remember reading a rant that analyzed why Jessica Jones was supposed to be SJW anti-man propaganda and another lamenting that there were too many women.

Is this representative in any way and fashion? *One* rant and *another* rant?

****'s sake.

And let's not dive into the fact that I had to explain more than once why an award winning comic book series that coincidentally happened to be mostly street level was a good candidate for a TV show in the first place, perhaps it was a vocal minority but a degree of hostility was there and fortunately it has been drowned in the success the series had with the wider Netflix audience and critics but once in a while you get people yelling SJW at it.

Exceptions are exceptions. Nuff said.

A lot of these detractors I met mentioned the "feminist agenda"

Regarding feminism. Feminism =/= Women. Mysoginy =/= Anti-feminism. Although you obviously won't ever meet feminist mysoginists, and you'll obviously find mysoginist anti-feminists, the two are *not the same*.

[AtomicClucker]

Well, that snowballed.

I'm going to say I purposely avoided mentioning any substantial statements on Islam... because I've nothing to say about it.

I already figured out it was a dead issue, mentioning it causes people to go nuts. Frankly, any religion can and must criticized in and out, but I'm not going to voice any opinions what so ever because it's a hot button issue. But I think is has less to due with Islam and more with the fact that the shooter is in the same boat with people who target abortion clinics.

But let me get one point across, it's easy to say  ITS NOT HAPPENING! about Journalists pushing agendas and commentaries, but any civil sense of restraint? Well no, my point was to show that only a small, idiotic segment of the media focuses on stirring up ****... but as they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And the problem is that people still listen and proliferate that stuff, on the other hand, numerous click-baity articles are jumping the shark, including racism, feminism, and god knows what. And frankly I link archives in the event that an article is written, but edited for being too inflammatory. Currently the "violent video games culture" maybe very well blurred by other outlets trying to politicize the issue with aforementioned topics.

It's human to be opportunistic. And frankly, the narrative may swing one way or another as the journos try and decided how to spin Orlando.

However, I will make one firm comment about 'games journalism' it's changed - traditional websites and magazines are indeed over, as a lot of the thunder has passed on to streaming, smaller, more crafted sites catering to audience demands. Gaming is more and will be more than diverse as ever, but as usual, expect moral nannies to try and dictate it. By no means is EA and Battlefield the face of gaming, but hey, I think discussing how much games have changed is another thread. We shouldn't look just at AAA, but the wide berth of mid and low tier markets. Because frankly, Indie is over. It evolved into something else.

[Det. Bullock]

That's total bull****, Det. Bullock. I mean, 100% bull****. Explain to me why oh ****ing why is Jessica Jones so wildly popular in the "geek scene"? No. You can't. Discussion over.

???

I remember quite a lot of geeks throwing bull**** at it in forums, expecially those of the "I don't read anything that isn't drawn Jim Lee style" crowd, hell I remember reading a rant that analyzed why Jessica Jones was supposed to be SJW anti-man propaganda and another lamenting that there were too many women.

Is this representative in any way and fashion? *One* rant and *another* rant?

****'s sake.

And let's not dive into the fact that I had to explain more than once why an award winning comic book series that coincidentally happened to be mostly street level was a good candidate for a TV show in the first place, perhaps it was a vocal minority but a degree of hostility was there and fortunately it has been drowned in the success the series had with the wider Netflix audience and critics but once in a while you get people yelling SJW at it.

Exceptions are exceptions. Nuff said.

A lot of these detractors I met mentioned the "feminist agenda"

Regarding feminism. Feminism =/= Women. Mysoginy =/= Anti-feminism. Although you obviously won't ever meet feminist mysoginists, and you'll obviously find mysoginist anti-feminists, the two are *not the same*.

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

[GhylTarvoke]

I keep reading on this thread on how amazingly feministic Islam truly is. The things I learn every single second. Incredible.

For real. This thread's a textbook example of what Dawkins is talking about:

Dawkins is right on the money when he says that regressive liberals are the ones who give Islam a free pass. He's been lambasting religion for decades; then he says that Islam needs a feminist revolution, and everybody's up in arms.

I thought Iran was already undergoing a bit of a feminist revolution?

In all fairness, it's hard to start a feminist revolution if the Quran has verses like these, and you simultaneously believe that the Quran is the indisputable word of God. I'll say it again: Dawkins is right on the money.

On the other hand, Muhammad was actually employed by his wife for a significant portion of their shared lives.

Islam gets a free pass. For what reason, I don't know.

[Grizzly]

That is not "Giving islam a free pass". I simply noted that a force within what is traditionally considered an islamic country is not giving Islam a free pass.

[GhylTarvoke]

I thought you were trying to refute Dawkins' claim that Islam needs a feminist revolution. My apologies!

[Luis Dias]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Yeah, being annoyed by the constant feminist propaganda is totes like the Mafia. And I'm the one blustering here.

****s sake, you're absolutely way off base here. So some people are tired of the constant guilt tripping shenanigans from feminists trying to sell utter garbage down our throats because it's "progressive" (see: Ghostbusters), and how dare you criticize any of it, you must be a bigot, perhaps, according to dr Bullock, just like the Mafia itself. So what? Let them vent. Try tell them that actually, Jessica Jones is a good show for its merits, regardless of the gender of the protag, that actually wonder woman may well be a good movie, regardless of any agendas being pushed by third parties, etc.

Haven't you noticed how, apart from a really tiny small portion of the manosphere (and why would you even care about these people is beyond me), everyone loved Mad Max?

But how can this be, if the geekdom is so ****ing misoginistic? How is it possible? Inquiring minds want to know how the **** do certain people square circles.

Of course, if your method is to cast them as bigots, then you'll easily find yourself confronting people who will not be welcoming your views at all. Isn't that surprising? I mean, hell!

I thought you were trying to refute Dawkins' claim that Islam needs a feminist revolution. My apologies!

Ouch. I felt that burn way over here in Portugal.

[Dragon]

In all fairness, it's hard to start a feminist revolution if the Quran has verses like these, and you simultaneously believe that the Quran is the indisputable word of God. I'll say it again: Dawkins is right on the money.

On the other hand, Muhammad was actually employed by his wife for a significant portion of their shared lives.

That's probably why he put in all those anti-feminist verses, don't you think?

In all honesty, you could find probably similar sentiments in the Bible. If anything, from what I know, Islamic law is better for women than Biblical law (not that it's saying much). Didn't stop Britain from having a feminist revolution back in the day (and that was at a time when people still took religion seriously). Of course it's hard, but that never dissuaded feminists in the past.

[GhylTarvoke]

In all honesty, you could find probably similar sentiments in the Bible. If anything, from what I know, Islamic law is better for women than Biblical law (not that it's saying much). Didn't stop Britain from having a feminist revolution back in the day (and that was at a time when people still took religion seriously). Of course it's hard, but that never dissuaded feminists in the past.

The difference is that the Quran is supposed to be the indisputable word of God.

You can still find Christians who believe the world was literally created in seven days, but they're in the minority.

[Det. Bullock]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Yeah, being annoyed by the constant feminist propaganda is totes like the Mafia. And I'm the one blustering here.

****s sake, you're absolutely way off base here. So some people are tired of the constant guilt tripping shenanigans from feminists trying to sell utter garbage down our throats because it's "progressive" (see: Ghostbusters), and how dare you criticize any of it, you must be a bigot, perhaps, according to dr Bullock, just like the Mafia itself. So what? Let them vent. Try tell them that actually, Jessica Jones is a good show for its merits, regardless of the gender of the protag, that actually wonder woman may well be a good movie, regardless of any agendas being pushed by third parties, etc.

Haven't you noticed how, apart from a really tiny small portion of the manosphere (and why would you even care about these people is beyond me), everyone loved Mad Max?

But how can this be, if the geekdom is so ****ing misoginistic? How is it possible? Inquiring minds want to know how the **** do certain people square circles.

Of course, if your method is to cast them as bigots, then you'll easily find yourself confronting people who will not be welcoming your views at all. Isn't that surprising? I mean, hell!

Being sexist asshats is a bad thing and so is the mafia and like the mafia people tend to be either fine with that and underestimate its toxicity or even outright deny it exists.

Why do you feel guilty when they point out sexism, either true or false, then?

WHY?

And even when false, I don't get pissed off when I read people that read Werther as a sexist eulogy to the old patriarchy, why DO YOU?

Also, feminist propaganda is annoying but the goddamn "USA! USA!" propaganda we get from people like Michael Bay isn't?

Because to me, not being an american, IT IS.

In all honesty, you could find probably similar sentiments in the Bible. If anything, from what I know, Islamic law is better for women than Biblical law (not that it's saying much). Didn't stop Britain from having a feminist revolution back in the day (and that was at a time when people still took religion seriously). Of course it's hard, but that never dissuaded feminists in the past.

The difference is that the Quran is supposed to be the indisputable word of God.

You can still find Christians who believe the world was literally created in seven days, but they're in the minority.

It's the same for the christians really, the difference is that for a very long time people were actively discouraged from reading it so the average christian is much less of a sacred text fetishist than a muslim outside of some protestant communities.

[Ghostavo]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Yeah, being annoyed by the constant feminist propaganda is totes like the Mafia. And I'm the one blustering here.

****s sake, you're absolutely way off base here. So some people are tired of the constant guilt tripping shenanigans from feminists trying to sell utter garbage down our throats because it's "progressive" (see: Ghostbusters), and how dare you criticize any of it, you must be a bigot, perhaps, according to dr Bullock, just like the Mafia itself. So what? Let them vent. Try tell them that actually, Jessica Jones is a good show for its merits, regardless of the gender of the protag, that actually wonder woman may well be a good movie, regardless of any agendas being pushed by third parties, etc.

Haven't you noticed how, apart from a really tiny small portion of the manosphere (and why would you even care about these people is beyond me), everyone loved Mad Max?

But how can this be, if the geekdom is so ****ing misoginistic? How is it possible? Inquiring minds want to know how the **** do certain people square circles.

Of course, if your method is to cast them as bigots, then you'll easily find yourself confronting people who will not be welcoming your views at all. Isn't that surprising? I mean, hell!

Being sexist asshats is a bad thing and so is the mafia and like the mafia people tend to be either fine with that and underestimate its toxicity or even outright deny it exists.

Why do you feel guilty when they point out sexism, either true or false, then?

WHY?

And even when false, I don't get pissed off when I read people that read Werther as a sexist eulogy to the old patriarchy, why DO YOU?

Also, feminist propaganda is annoying but the goddamn "USA! USA!" propaganda we get from people like Michael Bay isn't?

Because to me, not being an american, IT IS.

You are clearly a xenophobe for hating the US. How can you hate any Transformers movie without hating the US? I mean, it has Americans in it, so if you hate the movie it must be because there are Americans in it.

[qwadtep]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Social movements have goals, and followers of those social movements will do what they can to achieve those goals. It has nothing to do with persecution complexes.

Unless you want to talk about turning on the TV and hearing pundits rant about how Orlando was not at all the fault of ISIS or Islamic teachings on homosexuality, but rather the fault of evil Trump followers provoking Muslims, and the evil NRA for not giving up their guns, and the evil white men for being members of both, in which case I think the persecution complex is kind of warranted.

[AdmiralRalwood]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Social movements have goals, and followers of those social movements will do what they can to achieve those goals. It has nothing to do with persecution complexes.

Unless you want to talk about turning on the TV and hearing pundits rant about how Orlando was not at all the fault of ISIS or Islamic teachings on homosexuality, but rather the fault of evil Trump followers provoking Muslims, and the evil NRA for not giving up their guns, and the evil white men for being members of both, in which case I think the persecution complex is kind of warranted.

"I don't have a persecution complex, everyone's just trying to persecute me!"

[qwadtep]

Mentioning the "feminist/gay/whatever agenda" is a typical persecution complex, even if they aren't the number of people like that and the fact they are often tolerated or even catered to it's still alarming, it's like the Mafia where I live, it's a minority but it thrives on common citizens tolerating it.

Social movements have goals, and followers of those social movements will do what they can to achieve those goals. It has nothing to do with persecution complexes.

Unless you want to talk about turning on the TV and hearing pundits rant about how Orlando was not at all the fault of ISIS or Islamic teachings on homosexuality, but rather the fault of evil Trump followers provoking Muslims, and the evil NRA for not giving up their guns, and the evil white men for being members of both, in which case I think the persecution complex is kind of warranted.

"I don't have a persecution complex, everyone's just trying to persecute me!"

So when a woman says she's being abused by her husband, do you plug your ears and say she just has trust issues, too?

[Dragon]

In all honesty, you could find probably similar sentiments in the Bible. If anything, from what I know, Islamic law is better for women than Biblical law (not that it's saying much). Didn't stop Britain from having a feminist revolution back in the day (and that was at a time when people still took religion seriously). Of course it's hard, but that never dissuaded feminists in the past.

The difference is that the Quran is supposed to be the indisputable word of God.

You can still find Christians who believe the world was literally created in seven days, but they're in the minority.

Same with the Bible, really. The difference is mostly in how long they've been around (so there are more alternate interpretations of Bible than of Qu'ran) and how well they're known to the general population. And despite creationists being in minority, they routinely manage to get their ideas through to the US school system, so it's not like it's some fringe belief. Especially among orthodox Protestants, you can see, at times, acts of bigotry and backwardness just like those of Wahhabi Muslims (though I've seen things like that happen even with particularly bigoted Catholics. The Pope would've probably told the to knock it off if he heard of this...).

Both Islam and Christianity have a bit of flexibility due to the fact that "indisputable word of God" doesn't have to be literally true, only its "real meaning" has to be (of course, you then have Wahhabists and WBC respectively, who will tell you that yes, the holy books in question are literally true. Such beliefs are always rather harmful). You may notice that the most progressive Muslim countries are those with a Shia majority (Iran and Turkey), which isn't as big on literal interpretations as Sunnism.

[NGTM-1R]

Islam gets a free pass. For what reason, I don't know.

You literally don't know what a free pass is.

You are discussing how the entire religion is utterly and will forever be inimical to women like that's even a statement that makes sense. It doesn't. It never will. It never can. Religions are big tents embracing a huge amount of nuance between various positions based on eschatology, sect, and region. You are actively rejecting a very basic understanding of reality by preaching absolutes.

The fact you would even say this indicates you are not equipped to discuss a matter in anything more than black and white. Luis is busy flaming out all over the place as nobody takes him seriously, which is sad since he's capable of much better. Your behavior is merely contemptible.

The difference is that the Quran is supposed to be the indisputable word of God.

Biblical Inerrancy is a much more popular view than you think it is. Get educated.

[AdmiralRalwood]

So when a woman says she's being abused by her husband, do you plug your ears and say she just has trust issues, too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence