[TrashMan]

http://www.indiegogo.com/sots-thepit?a=1627415

A new indie project by Kerberos. A light rouge-like action RPG. Check it out.



B.t.w. - SOTS2 is given the all clear signal!!!
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35604

[Spoon]

lol, a full year after release the game is 'at a state that they wanted it to be at release'. What a failure

Also, that indie game looks really dull and uninteresting. Judging by its name its taking place in the sots universe, but that video has nothing more than generic rats and droid enemies and some non distinct player character in a space suit shooting generic guns. *yawn*

[Hades]

It looks like something that would have been interesting and unique about 12 years ago.

[NGTM-1R]

Confirmation Paradox is officially fed up with their **** and refuses to fund further?

[Mikes]

Confirmation Paradox is officially fed up with their **** and refuses to fund further?

Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh.

[Fury]

They're pretty late to April 1st. Or really early.

[TrashMan]

My, my.
So much schadenfreude and bile.

Would it kill you to show some happyness for your fellow man?

You know, a game getting fully patched after a disastrous start is a GOOD thing. Especially given all the game and game developers that go under (case in point, Nocavore and Legends of Pegasus)

Also, Kerberos testing the indy waters with a smal lproject is also good.
To quote:

(disclaimer: (cause folks like to go crazy) This announcement in NO way affects Sots/SotS2 and any future expansions and their happy home at Paradox. SotS 4x games continues to be members of the Paradox family of games...capiche?)


Ok now on to the news!

We have a new indy game project announcing on Indiegogo. Its a sots based rogue-style game called The Pit. It's retro, it's cute, it's cool. We would like folks to help bring it into existence, but more importantly since so many of you have been with us through thick and thin, I wanted to give you the lowdown on the how's and why's of this new path.

Welcome to the Future:

Like everything we do at Kerberos, this new game is part of a plan that is about both the short and the long term. The short term is easy. The Pit is a fun game we want to make and we hope you folks will love it. But the long term is about something a bit more serious; we have to find a better way of making things work.

From inception, Kerberos was meant to be a hybrid development house, working with Publishers but building up and controlling our own ip’s and setting our own level of support. Unfortunately, the realities of the changing computer game business have been making that more and more difficult despite the level of support from the fan base. The bottom line is that long term commitment and dynamic development of games requires dedicated resources and in the standard work for hire model there is just no budget to do that sort of thing. So the choice up to this point is either to ask more and more of a small number of people AFTER their regular work day developing contracted games while at the same time getting involved in more contracted projects in order to pay for the work being done supporting the last one. Sadly this is just no longer viable in this economic climate. While we have always been deeply indebted to the people out there who have shown us endless support and bought copies, even multiple copies, of all our games, the hard truth is that not a penny of that support has EVER reached us directly. And so in order to keep doing what we love to do and still survive, that means we have to start doing things in new ways.

And that “new” way is for Kerberos to go full indy.

While we fully intend to continue our partnership with Paradox with SotS2 and any expansions, Kerberos plans to diversify, carefully, into the realm of crowd sourced indy projects that will allow fan purchase to DIRECTLY enable the kind of support and development people seem to want. Now the temptation here is to go immediately for the big projects that need doing but we are just not comfortable with that. Truth be told, crowdsourcing is a new world for us and we are looking for a sustained development system, not just a one shot grab all you can and pray it scores kind of thing. We need to establish a viable and reliable pipeline for the creation of games in this way and you all need to see the results of those things without going full in on some mega project.

So what this boils down to is we are starting with The Pit; something fun, low risk, and most importantly, deep. (I know, he who puns may have other nasty habits) A game that will allow you to cast your vote for this plan and our commitment to support and still play before the sun goes cold. Assuming there is an audience for this, then you can safely expect 2 or 3 crowdsourced titles (not counting expansions) of increasing size and budget over the course of next year and this will hopefully establish a stable of self-published titles that will keep dedicated support programmers, artists and designers in the office. These games will appeal to both fans of our IP’s and fans of the game types themselves. While we want you folks to see new and different corners of our worlds, we also want to bring new people into the fold by putting some new twists on classic forms and by supporting these projects, you folks will also be able to help vote for what titles get developed next. Assuming all goes well with our ramping up approach, from there we will go on to bigger projects like Fort Zombie 2 and Northstar.

And there you have it. We are looking for your vote of confidence not only in the production of a great lil game, but also in our way of making living, breathing games where support doesn’t end after a bug fix or two. We love creating, maintaining and expanding our games but it can’t be done any longer within the traditional publisher/developer model. If these things are important or attractive to you then we humbly ask for you to come with us. Help show that this model for long term support means something to gamers. Help support the creation of new and enjoyable games for the right price. And help vote on which games will see the light of day.
This will be a great adventure, hope to see you there with us.

And thank you for all your support in the past,
--Martin Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions

[NGTM-1R]

Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh.

Most of them don't take a year to fix. Or rather, most of them are merely bugged, rather than actually and truly incomplete and unplayable.

[Mikes]

Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh.

Most of them don't take a year to fix. Or rather, most of them are merely bugged, rather than actually and truly incomplete and unplayable.

True.... but Paradox itself is still famous for bugged releases in general. - and a lot of them are unplayable at release or are lacking core functionality like working multiplayer.

But I agree with you of course in regards to Sots2 being an extreme case.

[AtomicClucker]

Remember Trashy, we don't make happiness, we steal it then bury under a pile of burning tires. Oh and probably dunked in baby seal blood too.

So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.

[Mikes]

So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.

Sots (1+2) does have its unique take on 4x that you will find nowhere else.

If that's "generic" (really?) then I don t want to know what you think of the rest of the genre lol

[TrashMan]

So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.

Sots (1+2) does have its unique take on 4x that you will find nowhere else.

If that's "generic" (really?) then I don t want to know what you think of the rest of the genre lol

QFT.

[headdie]

Go on then, list what makes it unique?

[Mikes]

Go on then, list what makes it unique?

:snarky reply: The composition of zeros and ones in its code.

:less snarky reply:... you will not find another 4x game that features turn based strategic gameplay on this scale together real time tactical combat, research driven ship customization on this scale, races that are actually different up to and including completely different means of FTL travel and ship layout, multiplayer vs. players and coop vs. AI all with drop in drop out functionality... in the same package.

Believe me I've looked If there is a game that offers all of the above (or enough of the above to offer a similar overall experience) and is also in a playable state, please do tell. I can't tell you how happy I would be to hear of another one. So far Sots (1+2) total package appears to still be rather unique.


All the other 4x titles I have tried are usually lacking in at least one key area in direct comparison.

GalCiv2 for example offers far superior strategic gameplay, but offers no multiplayer at all and no realtime battles either.
Sins of a Solar Empire on the other hand may be a superb realtime take on 4x... but offers (in comparison) little to no ship customization and very very streamlined gameplay in general to accomodate it being realtime.

Either game is great and I spent countless hours playing all of them. The point of the exercise however is... that they are quite different.

[General Battuta]

The sad thing that's become apparent about SotS2 is that it's built on some fundamentally un-fun design decisions. It'll never be as good as SotS1 even with every bug fixed.

[headdie]

have you looked at the MSDOS era Master Of Orion 1 and 2, cant speak much for 1 as I haven't played it but the only things lacking between MOO2 and SotS from your list are: 
Realtime space combat (it's turn based in MOO2), though the Total War franchise does deal with RTS combat resolution,
drop in/out multi because there wasn't the market for it in multiplayer back in the 90's,
differing FTL methods.

research driven ship customization 
Master of Orion has a much more flexible modification system, which also takes into account tech miniaturisation from improving tech levels. Alpha Centauri also features significant unit customisation.

Not only that but MOO2 has a much more restrictive research tree, want fusion FTL, fine but you cant have fusion missiles, you can if want to choose/customise a race that turns it off but it will come with some pretty big penalties.

Scale, yes the game take advantage that the more modern computer memory can hold larger arrays to store more systems.

anyhow there is a saying in fiction, "it's all been done before".  Meaning a genuinely unique idea is very rare and while the differing FTL is not something I have come across before in a 4X, and several aspects of SotS is uncommon as is how it combines many aspects but it is sadly not all that new, just presented with more modern graphics.

[Mikes]

I ve played a lot of Master of Orion 2 (and also 3... argh lol.)

MOO2 was an incredible game during its time, but can in no way or form be a substitute to either Sots or Sins for online multiplayer.

Sins matches take long but are streamlined enough to make battles in a single session still feasible on regular sized maps.
Sots matches may take very long, but if you only want a quick fix you can even just drop in on someone elses game with the drop in drop out functionality.

What MOO2 was, was a great game for multi day lan parties.... emphasis on was

[Fury]

God, MoO2 was awesome beyond awesome. I must have sunken weeks into playing that game. MoO3 was such a huge turd of disappointment it's not even worth mentioning.

SotS1 was pretty nice too, not originally though. It became much more fun with the expansions. SotS2 though has many design issues that doesn't make it anywhere near as fun as its predecessor was. Not to mention it took them a year to fix the game into a state where it should have been the day it was released. The time they could have spent improving on said design issues if it was even possible anymore.

I deeply regret buying the game in the first place. There was also opportunity to get a refund, but I skipped it, stupid as I was.

As far as I am concerned, I won't be dealing with Paradox or Kerberos anymore. They had their chance, they blew it up rather magnificently. I applaud doing more to fix the situation than many others would have. But then again, many others wouldn't have been in the same situation in the first place.

If this indie game that looks like something escaped from the 80's is their way of the future, then so be it. I couldn't care less though.

[TrashMan]

The sad thing that's become apparent about SotS2 is that it's built on some fundamentally un-fun design decisions. It'll never be as good as SotS1 even with every bug fixed.

You oppinion.
The mission system makes more sense (and far better simulates how real fleets work) than the standard system used in SOTS1.
Of course, it's not a system gamers are used to so it's feels strange and wrong.
Untill you play with it and get used to it.


Speaking of which, I see some people are still very much butthurt (for whatever reason) over the release fiasco.

In the climate when companies go under and games remain unpatched, Kerbros sticking with it and not only patching, but upgrading the game for over a year (and will continue to do so) is pretty much unprecedented. Their games are inovative, fun and they are supported for years to come.

Finally, everyone makes mistakes and can frak up. It's how we deal with those mistakes that is important.
Many companies would simply fold, but Kerberos offered money back, free SOTS1 and patched the game as they promised. They keep their word and they keep supporting their games, which is more than I can say for almost any other developer out there.

[TrashMan]

have you looked at the MSDOS era Master Of Orion 1 and 2, cant speak much for 1 as I haven't played it but the only things lacking between MOO2 and SotS from your list are: 
Realtime space combat (it's turn based in MOO2), though the Total War franchise does deal with RTS combat resolution,
drop in/out multi because there wasn't the market for it in multiplayer back in the 90's,
differing FTL methods.

Real hit/damage calculations.
Battles between ship in SOTS are closer to World of Tanks than anything else.
There are no dice rolls. Waht you see is what is happening. Shots can bounce. Shots can pirce. Shots can impart kinetic energy onto a target, etc...

research driven ship customization 
Master of Orion has a much more flexible modification system, which also takes into account tech miniaturisation from improving tech levels. Alpha Centauri also features significant unit customisation.

Customization that looks impressive, but when you get right down to it is isn't. 3-4 hulls with slots and you can put whatever you want in them.
Weapons that are not well balanced or broken.

SOTS ship design looks far more credible and has even more impact.
MOO2 was an AWESOME game. Awesome. But time marches on.

Not only that but MOO2 has a much more restrictive research tree, want fusion FTL, fine but you cant have fusion missiles, you can if want to choose/customise a race that turns it off but it will come with some pretty big penalties.

Fake restriction mechanics. You are dissalowed something just because.
Never was a fan of that one.