Author Topic: Death Star?  (Read 9681 times)

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Offline TopAce

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That's an old, low-res DS background bitmap.
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Offline chief1983

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That's a render with a background image.  That's not a model or anything.
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Offline Mongoose

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Didn't Omniscaper (or someone) once release a video of a Death Star trench run as a proof-of-concept of detail boxing?  It probably wouldn't be feasible for a gameplay environment, but it looked pretty cool.

 

Offline TopAce

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I think it was Hippo that made it. I saw it on the FTP once. It may even be available if you look back. It was highlighted, I would start there.
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Offline zookeeper

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So what's everyone talking about now and for what purpose? Is someone going to make a Death Star or what? :nervous:

 
Didn't Omniscaper (or someone) once release a video of a Death Star trench run as a proof-of-concept of detail boxing?  It probably wouldn't be feasible for a gameplay environment, but it looked pretty cool.

http://swc.fs2downloads.com/movies/DSv2.wmv

 

Offline Mongoose

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You, sir, are awesome. :yes:

 

Offline chief1983

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Well, it's been linked from the website all along, I just try not to draw attention to it since it's not an asset we currently have :P
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Dragon

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For sure, FoTG will not feature DS model with the amount of details seen on the other models (that would slow game down to slideshow on all but most powerfull computers).
If DS will be featured, it'd most likely be done in some interesting, never attempted before way and will both look great and not eat up too much preformance.
We'll see at FoTG release.

 

Offline Snail

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For sure, FoTG will not feature DS model with the amount of details seen on the other models (that would slow game down to slideshow on all but most powerfull computers).
Uh, that's why we were just discussing detail boxes.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Detail boxes won't save you. Any model with that much size and detail is gonna slow the game down considerably. And I'm not even talking about anywhere near a full greebled Death Star.

In any case, doing something like that has so many obstacles and you'd have to work around so many limitations and quirks of the engine that I'm afraid a superficial and speculative discussion like this just wouldn't be of that much help anyway.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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What about a procedural Death Star via horrible abuse of scripting?

That is, model unique sections of the hull ('brushes' if you're familiar with that lingo). Each one would be a ship, positioned and oriented using Lua. Its subsystems (if it has any) would also be stored using Lua whenever the player is far enough away from it for it to not matter. Then, when the player gets close enough, instead of using the conventional detail boxing, the script would create a ship at the correct position+orientation, with the correct subsystem strengths. Furthermore, you could possibly have an intermediate LOD which would have a decent amount of superficial detail, but no subsystems, via the gr.drawModel function.

Basically you'd only have ships for a few nearby sectors of the Death Star's surface.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 02:59:52 pm by Aardwolf »

 

Offline Thaeris

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Could scripting help? Since we know that most of the DS is a perfect sphere, non-critical regions could automatically be populated by a set of randomized tiles. The tiles themselves might be akin to the asteroids FS has - they're the same thing, but with a different model. Here's my current thought:

Tile generation, though limited to an extent by certain physical constraints/special regions of the DS/DS2 via algorithm, takes place over most of the general, unimportant surface which the pilot may encounter. There may be around 6 to 9 or more general surface plates, each of which uses the same texture. Initial placement is controlled by range to the DS surface, as well as the range to the closest "placement normal." The highest LOD plate is always the one the pilot is currently over, with detail dropping off rapidly amongst adjacent tiles. I'm thinking you'd draw no more than 25 tiles at a time. Plates would have no real "memory" after they were left of what turrets were destroyed, etc. But seeing as you'd not want to stick around over a surface bristling with turbolasers anyway, it would be a good incentive to get in and get out with the DS...

That said, what I think I'm suggesting is a DS with randomly selected and placed detail boxes - the DS model itself could be quite simple.

NOTE - Post started before Aard's suggestion.
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Offline Aardwolf

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No way of knowing who started posting first, but whatever.

@Thaeris: I reckon it wouldn't be too difficult to store what turrets/subsystems had been destroyed (or how damaged they were). When the player leaves a sector, you'd shove that information into a table somewhere, so you could load it back if the player ever wanted to go back to that area.

From an optimization point of view, however, it might be better to only store info on damage, since most of the sectors will start out undamaged. You could even set it up so that damage slowly "repairs itself" while nobody's looking. That is, record when a sector was last visible, and when it becomes visible again, increase the health of each subsystem based on that. And periodically check the sectors that aren't real (i.e. the list of sectors with damaged subsystems) to see if they can be "cleaned up" (i.e. all the damage is gone); those ones could then be removed from the list of sectors with damaged subsystems.

So that way, stuff stays damaged/destroyed when you come back to it (for the most part), but if you wait a really long time they repair it. And not just an instantaneous repair job, either.

It even makes sense from a realism perspective; they wouldn't try to repair their turrets if they know the turrets are just going to get blown up again in a few seconds (i.e. if there's  an enemy fighter nearby ready to lob some torpedoes at it), and it'd take time to get debris out of the way or do whatever else is necessary to repair or replace a damaged or destroyed turret. It's also possible that they've got a bunch of spare turret assemblies on stand-by. It's a bit of a stretch, though.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Well, adding more structure to the algoritm might actually speed things up in a way. However, it does mean each tile would need to be linked to a particular region. Such data could be stored in a matrix, which wouldn't be all that intensive at all.

However, what I was suggesting was a sort of temporary storage system - if you're in a place like that, you're not going to stick around. So even if you're about for a few minutes above the current tiles stored in the current memory, once they're left (beyond your FOV), they're gone. If you return to that area, they'll be back, but with none of the damage. And, if you went with the initial prompt I suggested, that section may actually be a different tile.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline captain-custard

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So then...what exactly was this?



I found it on the FoTG website under the screenshots section. Are you still planning to use that...thing?



propaganda.............
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 05:56:16 pm by captain-custard »
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Offline Aardwolf

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It's clearly a still from the movie, used as a background for some FotG ships. And from what looks like a depth-of-field effect and self-shadowing on that interceptor, it's obviously not an in-game screenshot. FSO doesn't support that... yet.

Also, cc, you've got it looking like NeoKnight is the one who said "propaganda.............", fix your quote tags.

 

Offline jr2

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What about a way to render models at different LODs on different sections?  Like... one part of the model is 100 KM away, it should be a lower detail than the piece you are about to kamikaze into... instead of all one LOD?  Any way to split a model into sections?  Like... maybe split the ship into many subships and have them all fit together?

 

Offline Flaser

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What about a way to render models at different LODs on different sections?  Like... one part of the model is 100 KM away, it should be a lower detail than the piece you are about to kamikaze into... instead of all one LOD?  Any way to split a model into sections?  Like... maybe split the ship into many subships and have them all fit together?

That's exactly what detail boxes do.
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Offline PHRiSCo

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Honestly, I've worked with many amazing game engines during my years in this industry. We'd need one hell of a sectioning/LOD system with flawless model blend swapping, amazing art, depth of field, and possibly some sort of space fog or something to pull this one off.

...or we can just pull tricks from 10 years ago and have everything pop in @ 1km :)