Author Topic: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)  (Read 13330 times)

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Offline newman

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Basically it boils down to Angeli borrowing from Star Trek or Die Hard there.

Jeez, just because a ship has service ducts doesn't mean he's stealing. Star Trek is hardly the only sci fi who thought of this.
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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
No you are right. Star Trek is not the only show to have done this. I am sorry, I will refrain from making Jokes in the future :p

It was more a comment on Ron who wrote more than a few of the J-tube centric episodes of Star Trek TNG. I've been watching the DVDs recently and its like every other one of his scripts in seasons 5-to-7 had them as a major plot device. It just struck me as funny is all.


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Offline Rian

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
What did Tyrol see at the end there? Was that deliberate damage, or was it some sort of natural stress? I feel like something significant might come out of that in the coming episodes.

The cylon bimbo did bother me. Apparently all the sixes are programmed to find Baltar irresistibly attractive? What is this nonsense? Even if she does become important later, there was no hint of complexity in that introduction. Moreover, Roslin’s speeches were disappointing, and I was displeased with the way Starbuck was effectively removed from the final events. She had quite the comeback going in the last episode, and suddenly she’s reduced to this sobbing caregiver and begging Lambkin for help. Frakking love interest characters – they should have just killed Anders, so she could go back to kicking ass.

So, I think that this episode only works if you ignore every single female character, because Angeli clearly hates them. That said, there were some elements that I thought were at least somewhat successful – mostly in the progression of Gaeta’s arc.

I think the moral greyness of this episode was always centered on Gaeta, rather than Zarek. I’ve never felt that Zarek’s intent was particularly in doubt, which is a large part of why I dislike the character. He’s too simple, too clearly motivated by his own gain, and he seems more interested in disrupting everyone else’s plans than in actually achieving anything productive. He’s been the go-to character for deals with the devil for a long time, and I find him profoundly boring.

Gaeta, on the other hand, seemed like the major strength of this episode. While I was fairly harsh in my assessment of him early on, and I cringed at his choice to turn to Zarek for support, I found myself somewhat more sympathetic to his plight near the end. They de-emphasized his personal motivations, and focused on his attempts to regain control of an uncontrollable situation, which made it much easier for me to appreciate the difficult choices he was forced to make. He was clearly trying to do some good, and realizing just how much had already gone wrong. I also appreciated that he faced appropriate consequences for his actions, and that he seemed to accept it. By that point, he knew that he’d screwed up, and the cheesy little moment where his leg stopped bothering him was a release of all the rage and guilt that had been driving him on anyway.

 

Offline FSW

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I didn't really find this episode exciting. Many things seemed 'too easy' for the protagonists, not only stretching suspension of disbelief, but leaving much of the episode devoid of tension. It was certainly a step down from last week's amazing episode.

Roslin seemed relevant, but passive. Adama's group managed to instantly re-convert a lot of marines, and encountered no on-screen resistance after he was freed; we didn't even get to see that happen. Tyrol's sabotage was convenient, but there was little peril. Anders got shot, but he got help when the lawyer took down a marine in melée combat.

Most disappointingly, after this whole coup, everything is 'back to normal'. There have been a few character deaths, but essentially the state of the fleet is nearly the same as it was two episodes ago. I suppose the Quorum needs to be refilled, but that's it. Ah, and I was looking forward to hearing Gaeta's 'little secret'. Oh well.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 02:44:20 pm by FSW »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
We do know Gaeta's secret - see the Webisodes.

Other than that I concur strongly with the above two posts.

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
What did Tyrol see at the end there? Was that deliberate damage, or was it some sort of natural stress? I feel like something significant might come out of that in the coming episodes.

I have the bad feeling that Galactica will be destroyed in the last episode.
This is now the second or third scene where a character from the show takes a close look at these by metal fatigue caused "scratches".
I don't like it.


The cylon bimbo did bother me. Apparently all the sixes are programmed to find Baltar irresistibly attractive? What is this nonsense? Even if she does become important later, there was no hint of complexity in that introduction. Moreover, Roslin’s speeches were disappointing, and I was displeased with the way Starbuck was effectively removed from the final events. She had quite the comeback going in the last episode, and suddenly she’s reduced to this sobbing caregiver and begging Lambkin for help. Frakking love interest characters – they should have just killed Anders, so she could go back to kicking ass.


Well, it seems she really cares about him. What would you do in this situation?
I know it's not real, but still... :)
But yeah, i like the ass kicking Starbuck more then the weepy one.

Also:

Spoiler:

The resurrection of Ellen seems to trigger the next events, the final five seems to remember everything for instance.
My guess is, for whatever has to happen in the next episodes, all of the final five are needed.


So, I think that this episode only works if you ignore every single female character, because Angeli clearly hates them. That said, there were some elements that I thought were at least somewhat successful – mostly in the progression of Gaeta’s arc.

Right about the females part, i guess.
Roslin, and to a degree Athena, have the only "important" scenes ( Roslin as counterforce to the Zarek/ Gaeta faction, Athena as part of the stormrifle waving "liberation force" :D ), Starbuck was out the moment Anders got shot.
Other female characters are rather "flat", Racetrack laughing over a stupid joke from Zarek, Tori - from a badass Cylon to a weepy Cylon in only 4 epiosodes. :wtf:


I think the moral greyness of this episode was always centered on Gaeta, rather than Zarek. I’ve never felt that Zarek’s intent was particularly in doubt, which is a large part of why I dislike the character. He’s too simple, too clearly motivated by his own gain, and he seems more interested in disrupting everyone else’s plans than in actually achieving anything productive. He’s been the go-to character for deals with the devil for a long time, and I find him profoundly boring.

I hoped that the character of Zarek "evolves" after the happenings from new Caprica.
Not to a good guy, but at least away from the character he was in the first two seasons.
That's why i never liked this character, never believed he cares for anybody else then himself.



Gaeta, on the other hand, seemed like the major strength of this episode. While I was fairly harsh in my assessment of him early on, and I cringed at his choice to turn to Zarek for support, I found myself somewhat more sympathetic to his plight near the end. They de-emphasized his personal motivations, and focused on his attempts to regain control of an uncontrollable situation, which made it much easier for me to appreciate the difficult choices he was forced to make. He was clearly trying to do some good, and realizing just how much had already gone wrong. I also appreciated that he faced appropriate consequences for his actions, and that he seemed to accept it. By that point, he knew that he’d screwed up, and the cheesy little moment where his leg stopped bothering him was a release of all the rage and guilt that had been driving him on anyway.

I like the moment in CIC near the end of the episode, where Gaeta realizes that he has failed.
He realized earlier on the Colonial One that he made a deal with the devil, but still he wants Adama punished, but it's the moment in CIC where i feel for the first time sympathy for him after he started this mutiny.


Roslin seemed relevant, but passive. Adama's group managed to instantly re-convert a lot of marines, and encountered no on-screen resistance after he was freed; we didn't even get to see that happen. Tyrol's sabotage was convenient, but there was little peril. Anders got shot, but he got help when the lawyer took down a marine in melée combat.

There is not much she could have done, right?

Well, the Marine was surprised by the attack , also he stabbed him in the neck with a pencil. Three or four times.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 03:29:56 pm by Angelus »

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Ummm when did that happen? It looked like he was going to kill the guy with his bare hands.  Not join him!

Pay attention next time :)
Adama turns to him and says something like "Lieutenant, I wanna take my ship back", and the officer responds that he's sorry, he respects him but he hates the cylons and he can't follow the orders of anyone who would collaborate with them.
Adama orders him to be tied up after that iirc. But it was clearly an invitation - something like "last chance to change sides".
I was paying attention and I still don't see it that way at all.   Adama wanted to find out how much of a fight he was going to get out of the guy/intimidate him to not do something stupid.  He was still in bad ass mode :)
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I rewatched it. In spite of my earlier complaints, wasn't actually terrible. I still think Michael Angeli was the wrong man for the job, but it was an okay episode.

I would've made three key changes:

1) Moved the baseship/Galactica standoff to begin much earlier, so Roslin would have seemed to take an active role. Shots should have been exchanged.

2) Tigh should have rallied Baltar's cultists and loyal marines to attack the airlock where Adama was. There would've been a standoff, and then Kelly would have started shooting the mutineers, allowing the rescue to occur.

3) Cut the whole Adama trial storyline for time.

It still would've been nice to have a few Centurions.

 
Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
It seems to me like a number of people expected the "heroes" to actually be "heroic", but the problem is, that's antithesis to BSG. Sure, Roslin didn't really do much in this episode, but that's the point; the man she loves is trapped on Galactica, facing execution, and there's nothing she can really do. Attack Galactica with the baseship? Yeah, that'd go over well with the rest of the fleet, especially when a couple stray shots smash into civvie ships. She was ready to do it towards the end there, but she really, really didn't want to. That's the nature of civil war (which is basically what this is), you're forced to fight your brothers and sisters, which is the last thing anyone really wants to do. That's also why Gaeta/Zarek didn't have such good control over Galactica; even towards the end there, there was still resistance being put up. It's not like the entire ship supported the mutiny, I'd say the crew was probably fairly evenly split in loyalties. What we saw in this and the previous episode is how utterly confusing and messy a mutiny is, and that there are no heroes in such a conflict.

As for the "bimbo", I have a theory about her...Head Six. When we first saw her, she appeared almost radiant, heavenly...and Baltar sort of did a double take when he saw her. I wonder if she's become the angel on his shoulder, opposite the devil we've seen most of the show, to go along with his struggles to find redemption.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I was actually kind of bothered by the heroes being too heroic. I wanted more action from rank-and-file loyalists and Baltar's cult.

 
Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
the fatigue thing of the ship will be brought up again, ive seen a trailer where adama notices the same thing in his quaters, a bit of a support beam starting to crack, galatica is over 40 years old, seen countless battles, hell she even jumped into the atmostphere of a planet. all without a rest and time in drydock.

the clip can be see on the sci-fi website, part of the clues they have been giving with little snippits from the show.

my guess is yeah the galactica goes down in the final episode, but i guess thats sorta signifys the end of there running. that they wont need her anymore and they story of the battlestar will fade into histroy.

 

Offline Solatar

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I liked how Gaeta called off the attack at the last moment, and was still killed with Zarek (his conversation with Baltar was great).

Almost made you want to forgive Gaeta (almost). But it was obvious he HAD to be shot.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Apparently this episode was massively cut for time, which is probably why it feels so disjointed.

 
Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Apparently this episode was massively cut for time, which is probably why it feels so disjointed.

That makes a lot of sense.

I have two thoughts, really.

1) I may be remembering this wrong, but was Gaeta's conversation with Baltar a copy of his video interview back in season 2 (final cut)? or am I confusing that interview with something I saw online?

2) The Galactica is dying. Slowly, but surely it's dying. She's 40 years old in the mini-series, and she's taking huge pumulings in the years since without relief. Could the Galactica itself be the dying leader and not Roslin?

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
Agreed.
The only piece of weak writing I could detect was right after adama is rescued from being executed; he asks the officer who was just about to give the order to shoot him to join him in retaking the ship. The guy was ready to kill you a sec ago and now you're ready to trust him in combat? I don't think so. It's not a big complaint, but that part should've been left out.
Everything else, I loved.
Ummm when did that happen? It looked like he was going to kill the guy with his bare hands.  Not join him!

This was an excellent episode...everything we've come to expect from a BSG episode.  Even had some mild Viper action shots...we need a proper space battle at some point.  Haven't had a big one for a while.


It's hard to have a proper space battle when the only two warships you have are beat to hell. Galactica is literally falling apart at this point and that baseship is full of holes (although it can repair itself to a degree so it can keep going for a while longer).

Quote
I was all pumped up for an action episode involving Centurion boarding parties and a capital ship standoff.

I was halfway expecting a centurion boarding party as well to take back the ship, but I don't think that would have gone down well with the crew or the fleet. Better that they stayed out of it.
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Offline wiley

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I think that without the Quorum or Zarek that Adama's and Roslyn's power and control over the fleet is now total.
With no real enemy within the fleet now, we need a new one. The Cavil faction of Cylon's  must now show up.

Also I really liked the scene with colonial one entering the landing bay.

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I think the biggest winners of the coup attempt will be the rebel cylons. For one thing Zarek's actions, namely massacring the Quorom, the bloodiness of the coup, and his general corruption will destroy his credibility with the vast majority of his followers once it is made public. The Cylon's actions in harboring the president and, once she talked them into resurrecting a backbone (a detail that probably won't be made public), letting her practically take control of their ship will go a long way towards winning over the civilian fleet.

Hell hath no fury like a woman's baseship.

 
Quote
I think that without the Quorum or Zarek that Adama's and Roslyn's power and control over the fleet is now total.

I have no doubt that a new Quorom will be elected, so we haven't seen the last of them.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
I'm actually glad that they killed off the Quorom, they were spineless and weak for the entirety of the show. Maybe now they'll use it as a vehicle for getting some new civilian leadership in there. Lee as VP?

That being said, I do agree that the episode felt a bit like it was cut for time; I feel that had they had another season after this one, the rebellion arc would have lasted at least 3 episodes, probably 5. But due to time constraints they had to cut it down.

Where are the episodes where other stress cracks start appearing in Galactica?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 08:47:12 am by Unknown Target »

 
Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
2) The Galactica is dying. Slowly, but surely it's dying. She's 40 years old in the mini-series, and she's taking huge pumulings in the years since without relief. Could the Galactica itself be the dying leader and not Roslin?

I hadn't thought of that, but I like it. It's very poetic, so I kinda hope this prediction is right.

 

Offline Meleardil

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Re: Ep. 416 "Blood on the Scales" Discussion (SPOILERS)
That would assume Galactica is sentient. Even that she is the 5th cylon. But if RDM comes up with THAT crap, I will delete the episodes from my HDD and forget that I ever watched them.
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