[Black Wolf]

nonsense that hasn't read Scotty's posts

...do you even know what precision flying looks like? Serious question. You're falling into the same trap Scotty has been disproving the entire thread; that Rey's feats are exceptional demonstrations of skill. You're using a lot of words here but you're not actually attempting to prove your point, much like Luis has avoided making a specific argument for why each of these supposed things demonstrates particularly exceptional skill in its area. You just baldly assert it, maybe offer a minimal thing about "she flew it through a Star Destroyer!" ignoring that the TIEs also pulled that without a hint of effort so there's no reason to think it was particularly difficult for anyone in the movie. Honestly if you watch it, it even looks slower than the Death Star runs.

You're offering us your feelings, not justified by evidence. Criticism requires more. Whereas Scotty and I have made specific reference to multiple points from the movie of why they do not show exceptional skill.

So why on Earth should we take you seriously?

Sigh. You're completly missing the point.

The issue is not whether or not Rey's actions are or are not particularly difficult. We, as viewers, can never know (in isolation) whether they would actually be difficult in the real world, because the SW Universe is a subset of the All-Movies-Ever Universe, where easy things are presented as hard, and hard things are presented as easy, and we accept that because we, as audience members, understand the narrative conventions that govern these things. If the movie makes a big deal about something being difficult, then it's difficult. If it doesn't, or makes an effort to point out the opposite, then the opposite is true and those actionsa re easy.

Again, we'll use A New Hope as an example of this done right. Hitting the exhaust port is set up as being very difficult to do. We're told that it's "...impossible, even for a computer" and it's overtly stated that "The approach will not be easy". We also see a non main character try and fail to make the shot. This is all part of the buildup of the action scene, making Luke's ability to make the shot all the more impressive, because, by that point, we know that it was a very difficult thing to do.

By contrast, take the death star escape in the Falcon. Luke displays competence with the guns without any training (which would normally be a problem), but the in the very next scene, Leia tells us that it was all too easy and the Empire let them escape, making Luke's unexplained ability to shoot much more explicable - it is put in a context where it's much less impressive, because the movie goes out of its way to tell us that it was easy.

Contrast those example with Rey's achievements. Flying through the Star Destroyer the movie shows us is difficult by having some of the TIEs fail to complete it (and the universe had previously established that it was difficult when Lando did almost the exact same thing in Jedi and outflew his pursuing TIEs (costing him a sensor dish in the process)). Telekinesis and mind tricks have been established as difficult, because they were used to demonstrate Ben's high level of skill with the force in ANH, and Luke's gradually growing abilities in ESB and RotJ. And fighting Kylo Ren with a lightsabre was established as difficult because he all but killed one of our main characters seconds before Rey picked up the sabre. These are the ways in which movies tell us, the audience, what is hard and what is easy.

Stop trying to think of these as discrete events in the real world and start thinking in the language of film and storytelling, and you'll see why Rey is a problematic character. And that, incidentally, is why you should take this line of argument seriously - because we're discussing a character in a movie, and you're choosing to forget or ignore that fact, and, in turn, all the narrative conventions that go along with it.

[Goober5000]

...do you even know what precision flying looks like? Serious question. You're falling into the same trap Scotty has been disproving the entire thread; that Rey's feats are exceptional demonstrations of skill. You're using a lot of words here but you're not actually attempting to prove your point, much like Luis has avoided making a specific argument for why each of these supposed things demonstrates particularly exceptional skill in its area. You just baldly assert it, maybe offer a minimal thing about "she flew it through a Star Destroyer!" ignoring that the TIEs also pulled that without a hint of effort so there's no reason to think it was particularly difficult for anyone in the movie. Honestly if you watch it, it even looks slower than the Death Star runs.

You're offering us your feelings, not justified by evidence. Criticism requires more. Whereas Scotty and I have made specific reference to multiple points from the movie of why they do not show exceptional skill.

So why on Earth should we take you seriously?

Nice rhetorical slight-of-hand there.  You made a series of either dishonest or disingenuous misrepresentations of Black Wolf's points:

1) Black Wolf specifically said that the question should be "Does the movie do a good job of justifying her abilities?"  This is independent of whether the abilities themselves are unremarkable or exceptional.

2) Dismissing the entire post as "nonsense" and "a lot of words" which allows you to avoid addressing any of the arguments that BW actually made

3) Dismissing Black Wolf's factual evidence as "feelings"

4) Ignoring Black Wolf's multiple specific references to multiple movies, including six examples of Luke's piloting ability, two examples of Luke's force ability, and three examples where Rey's abilities are insufficiently justified by the film.

It's one thing to argue a point passionately, but it's quite another to be either ignorantly or maliciously deceptive.  Since I know you're smarter than the average troll, I am forced to conclude you're up to the latter.  Stop it.

[Luis Dias]

Black Wolf is doing an incredible job of explaining himself in the face of the bull**** that is being spewed by NGTM. I'm impressed by this ability to be rational and precise to the point as he has been, unfazed and unmoved by the sort of rethoric that achieved the point where I'm no longer interested in porsuing a conversation. The "a lot of words" specific clause that Goober talks about reminds me of Donald Trump. Beware of Trumps, is my conclusion. They're everywhere. Sad!

[Mammothtank]

I want to know if that Grand Admiral guy is Tarkin or some sort of Thrawn replacement. But I think its probably going to be neither.

p.s The characters in this seem really dull is it just me?

[SypheDMar]

And we all know who mustache man is.

[Mammothtank]

Garm Bel Iblis?

[StarSlayer]

Git Hype Nrds

[Scotty]

Hype gitted.

[NGTM-1R]

Garm Bel Iblis?

Well in terms of magnificent mustaches, there are only Talon Karrde, Garm Bel Iblis, or Gilad Pellaeon.

[Luis Dias]

Mixed feelings about Rogue One.

On one hand, it seems like an original story. Which is something that is amazing on itself give how it's Star Wars. Last movie was a total hack copypasta shenanigan.
On the other, I'm skeptical about its tone. The trailer is well edited, but I can see through the seams, and the movie that is trying to hype doesn't seem that exciting.

[zookeeper]

It seems like it'll be good, with the main downside being that I'll pretty much already know what's going to happen plot-wise. Also I hope it's not too much of a disposable rollercoaster of constant action and pretty scenery.

[jr2]

It seems like it'll be good, with the main downside being that I'll pretty much already know what's going to happen plot-wise. Also I hope it's not too much of a disposable rollercoaster of constant action and pretty scenery.

What generates more revenue, good plotlines, or rollercoasters of action and pretty scenery?