[Flipside]

That's what you get for letting the Drones fly, too proud to ask directions

'This is a shortcut, trust me.....'

[Mobius]

Well,as I said a game where every damaged warship escapes is not a good game...
The Shivans can sacrify(correct?)their forces.See Capella.FS copied many features from Colony Wars,and in CW every warship needed to reach an X velocity to enter hyperpace.With its main engine diasbled,the Sathanas can't rely only on the ones near its cannons.

Whoever commandered the Sathanas entered GTVA space to finsh the Lucifer's job.Finding the Colossus wasn't anticipated.In this case,some kind of particular Shivan behaviour made its appeareance....the Sathanas was easily taken down by the Colossus. The Colossus was destroyed because its CO was stubborn and moved by honour.

As for Terran ships,we know that corvette size ships have thousands of crew.Do you think that in ships like the Danton every crew member would accept his/her death?Who knows how many "rebels" among the rebels have been killed while they were trying to get out their warship from there or simply to surrender?

[Axem]

Yeah, I know its all "for the plot" (as High Noon was pretty contrived), but that doesn't stop us from speculating.

Anyway, we're talking FreeSpace, not Colony Wars. FS may have taken some ideas from CW, but that doesn't mean they share the same universe. If your still sticking with "reality", I've already said that engines provide acceleration. So it could still get up to "subspace speed", but it will just take a bit longer.

And if the goal was to finish the Lucifer's job, why didn't the Sathanas fleet do it later?

If the crews of corvettes or destroyers don't want to die, they shouldn't have joined the military. Its was their decision to join the GTVA, or defect to the NTF. They should know that they could die tomorrow.

[Mobius]

NTF operatives didn't know a thing about the existance of the Colossus,they knew that the biggest thing they could encounter was a destroyer.

The Sathanas have destroyed Capella for many reasons.They didn't have so much infos about the reconstruction era,they probably thought that Capella was the primary Terran system...who knows?

The acceleration is proportional to the engines used for it.With the main engine destroyed,the Sathanas will need time to accumulate sufficient power in order to escape using the other engines,or something else. thus allwing the orion to inflict heavy damage.

A Sathanas that escapes from enemy forces is a too encouraging ecent for whoever faces the Shivans.that's why they should be "programmed" to just wait until they are destroyed.

[Polpolion]

NTF operatives didn't know a thing about the existance of the Colossus,they knew that the biggest thing they could encounter was a destroyer.

The Sathanas have destroyed Capella for many reasons.They didn't have so much infos about the reconstruction era,they probably thought that Capella was the primary Terran system...who knows?

The acceleration is proportional to the engines used for it.With the main engine destroyed,the Sathanas will need time to accumulate sufficient power in order to escape using the other engines,or something else. thus allwing the orion to inflict heavy damage.

A Sathanas that escapes from enemy forces is a too encouraging ecent for whoever faces the Shivans.that's why they should be "programmed" to just wait until they are destroyed.

Hey hey hey hey hey, If the Sath can go 40+ mps while entering subspace with an acceleration of fast, why dosen't it go that fast in normal space? BECAUSE IT CAN'T!!! It's main engeins can only make it go so fast. And don't give me any of that "aww but it's very draining to all of the systems!" crap either. How do you think it can fire all of those guns at once? yeah thats what I thought I WIN!!

[Mobius]

So?

[Axem]

1st paragraph: The GTVA didn't know a thing about the existance of the Sathanas. They thought the biggest thing they could encounter was the Lucifer.

Back to your NTF point, had Bosch not wasted the NTF on his gambit to reach the Knossos, I think the NTF could've came up with their own trap to ambush the Colossus. Strength of arms does not ensure victory.

2nd paragraph: The Shivans seem to know a lot more than we think they do. How did they know that Vasuda and Sol were so important?

3rd paragraph: Say the Sath can only accelerate at 25% of normal because the Orion killed the main engine. That means it will take 4 times as long to accelerate. It only takes around 5 seconds to warp out, so the Sath will take 20 seconds to reach "subspace speed." Not enough for an Orion to kill it.

4th paragraph: I don't quite understand. Ecent?

[Hippo]

canon evidence shows that ships do not need to accelerate prior to jumping, it is a part of the jump proscess that occurs when the ship is pulled into the portal.


(proven via the tech room info thingies, and in-mission occurances)

[karajorma]

I lsot that mission when my HDD chrashed, but it's a 1 minute job to make another one. Why don't you do it?

Which is why I'm saying you should post the mission so I can take screenshots and show you how the Sathanas actually turns away from getting its guns into range. I could build a mission to show that in seconds but I know that you would simply claim that I've rigged the mission.

[Polpolion]

I lsot that mission when my HDD chrashed, but it's a 1 minute job to make another one. Why don't you do it?

Which is why I'm saying you should post the mission so I can take screenshots and show you how the Sathanas actually turns away from getting its guns into range. I could build a mission to show that in seconds but I know that you would simply claim that I've rigged the mission.

[TrashMan]

canon evidence shows that ships do not need to accelerate prior to jumping, it is a part of the jump proscess that occurs when the ship is pulled into the portal.


(proven via the tech room info thingies, and in-mission occurances)

Which is strange.. I recall several mission in FS1 and FS2 where ships don' jump out if you disable them.

The SD Tantalus and the other demon in the desarm the Sathanas mission spring to mind.

Which is why I'm saying you should post the mission so I can take screenshots and show you how the Sathanas actually turns away from getting its guns into range. I could build a mission to show that in seconds but I know that you would simply claim that I've rigged the mission.

Which would be impossible for me to claim if you didn't, since anyone could look the mission in FRED and see if it has been rigged...

[Axem]

I can't vouch for the Tantalus, but the Beleth in Bearbaiting has its exit cue tied to its distance from the jump node. If its disabled, it'll never be able to reach the node and jump out.

[karajorma]

And here we go. Witness the absolute stupidity of the claim that an Orion can destroy a Sathanas by jumping in behind it.

Sathanas engages engines. Sathanas moves 6000m away from Orion (takes 10% damage doing so). Sathanas turns and burns Orion.

Anyone who still believes the Orion can win can place it anywhere they bloody like and give it any orders they bloody well please.


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[Mobius]

The Orion won't remain immobile,if the Sathanas moves 6000 m away the Orion can follow it...

Axem:The ambush?There are many things we didn't see in the Main Campaign...
I have elaborated a theory about this...simply the Shivans can detect some kind of jump signatures(not normal jump signaures,but something like "footsteps" leaved by ships which use a node).Thanks to this ability,the know for example that x number of ships come from that system,a lower number has entered the other ecc. They can discover which system is the one where the x species has evolved and started its subspace travels...
As I said,the main engine is far bigger than the others put together.If you destroy it,you may reduce its speed by 8/10.The Orion has sufficient firepower to take out both the rear engines.The four remaining ones are so little,they can't guarantee a jump.They give probably just 1/10 of the complessive power needed to move the Sathanas.
I never said that the GTVA had infos about the Sathanas before it entered the nebula.I simply said that NTF forces didn't know a thing about the existance of the Colossus.
Bosch's final attempt was to reach the Knossos and contact the Shivans to become an ally.Doing this way,he could save the humanity or crush any GTVA forces.

Ecent?

[karajorma]

The Orion won't remain immobile,if the Sathanas moves 6000 m away the Orion can follow it...

You obviously didn't play the mission. Yes the Orion can follow it. But the Orion is slower than the Sathanas. It can't keep up. It takes about 15 minutes for the Sathanas to open up enough distance on the Orion but the second it does death is not far away for the Orion.

[Axem]

Axem:The ambush?There are many things we didn't see in the Main Campaign...
I have elaborated a theory about this...simply the Shivans can detect some kind of jump signatures(not normal jump signaures,but something like "footsteps" leaved by ships which use a node).Thanks to this ability,the know for example that x number of ships come from that system,a lower number has entered the other ecc. They can discover which system is the one where the x species has evolved and started its subspace travels...

That's your own theory on the Shivans, I have my own. I'll leave it at that.

As I said,the main engine is far bigger than the others put together.If you destroy it,you may reduce its speed by 8/10.The Orion has sufficient firepower to take out both the rear engines.The four remaining ones are so little,they can't guarantee a jump.They give probably just 1/10 of the complessive power needed to move the Sathanas.

I already gave an example where if Sath only has 75% of its normal thrust, the acceleration will just take 4 times as long. Also each engine has 70,000 hit points (7% of the total hull). It's going to take a while for the Orion to grind down the engines. By comparison, a Deimos has 80,000 hitpoints.

I never said that the GTVA had infos about the Sathanas before it entered the nebula.I simply said that NTF forces didn't know a thing about the existance of the Colossus.
Bosch's final attempt was to reach the Knossos and contact the Shivans to become an ally.Doing this way,he could save the humanity or crush any GTVA forces.

Right, the GTVA didn't know about the Sath, just like the NTF didn't know about the Colossus. If the appearance of the Sath didn't demoralize the GTVA (to the point of giving up), I wouldn't really expect the Colossus to demoralize the NTF.

Ecent?

A Sathanas that escapes from enemy forces is a too encouraging ecent for whoever faces the Shivans.that's why they should be "programmed" to just wait until they are destroyed.

Encouraging what?

[Mobius]

The Orion won't remain immobile,if the Sathanas moves 6000 m away the Orion can follow it...

You obviously didn't play the mission. Yes the Orion can follow it. But the Orion is slower than the Sathanas. It can't keep up. It takes about 15 minutes for the Sathanas to open up enough distance on the Orion but the second it does death is not far away for the Orion.

Uhm,yeah.I have created a subspace pursuit a few months ago,and the Orion was slower.I didn't remember it.

Axem:event.It was event.Making a Sathanas escape is not good for Shivan forces and boosts the morale of their enemy.Being destroyed is better,trying to inflict as many casualties as possible.

GTVA had the Colossus to face the Sathanas.The NTF couldn't respond to the Colossus' deployment in the battlefield.

The Orion can bring two BGreens on a single target + some Slashes.Enough to destroy a Deimos and of course an engine subsystem.The Sathanas is faster,but in my mission I had the orion inflicting most of the damage on the Sathanas,while the other warships(an Aeolus,a Deimos and a Sobek)inflicted only small damage.The Orion wasn't fast enough,but it has destroyed the Sathanas.I can attach here that mission,its old and my FRED skills have improved in the meantime.I will laugh like you.

My theory is mine,ok,but even if the method isn't correct,the Shivans do what I said.Another possible theory is that they have record of florid systems where life could be present(they fought the Ancients,maybe they have visited Vasuda or Sol).

[Axem]

Aaah, event. Ok, that makes much more sense now. Anyway, that stuff is again your theory. It may fit and follow what the Shivans have done, but I have different thoughts.

The NTF did respond to the Colossus, but not by attacking it directly. The NTF attacked a supply convoy for the Colossus. If they had destroyed it, Command would've had to withdraw the Colossus temporarily. The NTF sabotaged the Colossus' beams to get Bosch through the portal. They didn't need their own mega-ships for that.

And I just did a quick test. Supposing the Sath isn't moving, the Orion is at the right angle, and using fire-beam, it takes an Orion about 40 seconds to destroy one engine subsystem. So I'll give you it is possible for an Orion to take out the main engine for a Sath quickly. But I still don't think that if you disable the main engine, you disable its ability to go into subspace. In game or in reality, it can still leave.

[Bob-san]

It is due to faulty coding in the game. IT doesn't distinguish engines, only calls them different things. Just as you MUST destroy every engine to disable a ship, you can't prevent a jump completely.

Try this quick, Mobius...

Place the ships in the mission quickly, and set them up like this...

Sathanas going from 0mps to maximum speed. Turn beams off the Sathanas. Send the Orion into the mission and bring it from 0mps to max speed as well. Free the beams of the Orion to disabled the engines of the Sathanas, and then see the actual changes to the Sathanas. After the main engines are disabled, bring both ships to a complete halt, and then start them up again. Repeat until all Sathanas engines are dead.

[Mobius]

There's this mission,very old one....
This is just a previwe.It's a mission from The Southern Cross Part 2,supposed to be contained in the main package before i split the mega-campaign.

Axem:The NTF allowed the Iceni to escape.It's not to be paragunated to the destruction of the Colossus.

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