Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Darius on February 21, 2010, 05:31:46 am

Title: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on February 21, 2010, 05:31:46 am
This thread is for discussion of the voice-acted version of Age of Aquarius.

Before the discussion gets going though, I'd like to thank everyone who was involved in this project: the dev staff, voice actors and those who submitted their auditions, and the beta testers. You've all helped turn a one-person fan campaign into a pretty damn cool mod, and it's been a pleasure.

Special thanks must go to General Battuta, Rian and The E for their tireless work in co-coordinating the voice acting.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 21, 2010, 05:36:02 am
And one unofficial download is available in Black Market (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68214.0). Enjoy BP: AoA! :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on February 21, 2010, 05:38:00 am
Nice, going to wait until it's mirrored somewhere that doesn't spam me with a trillion ads...or until there is a consolidated archive...

Don't you guys have an FTP on hard-light.net? Why is it hosted on Mediafire :/
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 21, 2010, 05:43:35 am
HLP's bandwidth does not go into hosting public mod downloads. If that was allowed, there wouldn't be bandwidth left for anything else. If mediafire is not good enough for you, I'm afraid you'll have to wait quite a while for other mirrors to appear.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: m!m on February 21, 2010, 06:01:59 am
No matter where I dl it, THIS is worth a billion ads :p

Oh and: Thank youn
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 06:20:17 am
If no one's doing it yet, I could upload it to FreeSpaceMods.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on February 21, 2010, 06:22:12 am
I think many people would appreciate that, Jeff Vader :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rodo on February 21, 2010, 07:00:37 am
Yay!!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 21, 2010, 07:13:35 am
Many BP staffers hang around in IRC, on Espernet's channel #bp (https://widget.mibbit.com/?settings=b73fe961ed217d9a3cbd9637dc7ba9bf&server=irc.esper.net&channel=%23bp&noServerTab=false)

Welcome :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 07:20:26 am
 :eek2:


I missed it!


All this waiting and i missed it :lol:

Time to download methinks.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 07:24:34 am
I took the liberty of starting the upload to FSMods.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 07:30:20 am
Feedback, do want :D


Can't wait to play it. I'm just "enjoying" navigating the mediafire interface.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 08:31:38 am
I took the liberty of starting the upload to FSMods.
Gotcha. I was just about to start myself.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade on February 21, 2010, 08:47:11 am
Wow looks great....
I love the new interface and the superb voices.

With voice acting BP is like a new game...
Also the new Cutscenes i see (Destruction of an Orion class Destroyer above earth) looks great too.

And i hope the difficulty in later missions (Forced Entry, Keepers of Hell) will be a little lowered.
I never beat Forced Entry without a little invul. cheat for any Capital Ship.

Great work so far and i am looking foreward for War in Heaven.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 08:56:38 am
i maed you a mirror but then i eated it :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 09:07:51 am
Wow looks great....
I love the new interface and the superb voices.

With voice acting BP is like a new game...


This is what i'm looking to enjoy the most.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ariel on February 21, 2010, 09:52:09 am
congrats for the 2nd launch of your campaign  i will to test it again.

a question .

to overwrite the the existing blue planet campaign  with the new files?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 09:55:07 am
Follow the installation instructions mentioned in the first post. They state, quite clearly, that you have to delete all old BP files.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 21, 2010, 10:28:42 am
Played it up to...

Spoiler:
...the part where Samuel merges with the Vishnans, ...

...and I must say that I am very, very impressed.

Battuta once said that the BP Team got a really good female voice for the Temeraire. He wasn't lying about that.

The good Colonol has outdone himself voicing the Orestes. :nod:

And I was grinning so hard when I heard...

Spoiler:
...the GTT Cyrus.

I'm really very happy that the VA for this turned out just as well as it could ever be.

Difficulty-wise, it's still good old BP. Forced Entry wasn't as bad as I did it the first time (I've done it enough times to have a vague sense of direction), but I almost lost the Labouchere. The Shivans managed to pummel it down to 39% hull, and the Sanctuary took a full LRed. Apart from that, everything else was just fine. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 11:26:36 am
 :yes: cheers.

I'm on 45kbps connection (still) and i'm just waiting on audio2 to finish, i'm at 4%.

i'll be honest, i've had a peek in the vps and like what i see so far. I'm just eager to play it before work tomorrow.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 21, 2010, 12:16:59 pm
I'm having an issue with the earth bipmap :
Spoiler:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1593/earthbug.png
The log is attached

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 21, 2010, 12:21:47 pm
Quote
Found root pack 'C:\Freespace2\BP_AoA\bp-adv-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x2851edb0
Found root pack 'C:\Freespace2\BP_AoA\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0xd06bf123
Quote
  OpenGL Renderer   : Intel 965/963 Graphics Media Accelerator

Brave man, aren't you? Get rid of the adv vp's.

I see you also use AI mod without rebalance mod. Flak's gonna hurt you, bad.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 12:26:52 pm
Also,
Code: [Select]
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\BP_AoA\bp-3612-ai.vp' ... 3 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\BP_AoA\bp-3612-sfx.vp' ... 7 files
Shouldn't these be in their own folder?

Code: [Select]
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\A_MV_SubachRedA.vp' ... 2 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 2868 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1810 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Core.vp' ... 146 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1046 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Freespace2\mediavps\MV_Music.vp' ... 32 files
You're missing the patch for the MediaVPs. Go to the MediaVPs release thread and download it (step 6).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 21, 2010, 12:29:17 pm
Shouldn't these be in their own folder?
Yes they should but what do I care if he doesn't use "blueplanet" folder for the AoA either.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 21, 2010, 12:53:00 pm
Quote
 OpenGL Renderer   : Intel 965/963 Graphics Media Accelerator

Brave man, aren't you? Get rid of the adv vp's.
I've never had issues with the adv vps, and I don't think it's gonna start now. I just don't play with full options, and my GPU won't bother with normal maps that it can't run anyway.

I see you also use AI mod without rebalance mod. Flak's gonna hurt you, bad.
I plan on seeing how playable it is first. I've not been far enough in the campaign yet to fire a single shot anyway.

You're missing the patch for the MediaVPs. Go to the MediaVPs release thread and download it (step 6).
I've never needed this patch before neither. I'm gonna test if it fixes that though.

EDIT : the patch didn't fixed it, but removing the bp-adv vps did. Interesting issue, I'm gonna browse the vps and see if I can come up with a personal fix to play with the advanced vp without this bug.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 12:58:50 pm
You need the patch.

However, your issue is not with the MediaVPs Advanced BPs, but the Blue Planet ones. Pull those and the skybox error should go away.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on February 21, 2010, 01:37:00 pm
Uh... is it possible to spoiler the image in MatthTheGeek's post? If this is anyone's first time playing BP, that might be a bit of unwanted info.

Edit: actually it's not so revealing as I had thought (thanks to it being so buggy). Needless to say, I've got a BUNCH of .7z files downloading simultaneously (all with names starting with "bp-"  ;) ), and although the image in his post hadn't finished loading, I was pretty sure what I was going to see once the top 1/10 of it loaded.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 21, 2010, 01:57:24 pm
You can hardly spoiler a picture, but anyway, I've removed the lvlshot tags so people won't see it until they click the link.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 21, 2010, 02:07:49 pm
Just to be sure:
If I use the advanced core, I still need the "normal" core as well, right?

So much for business, on to the cheering  ;)

Woohoooooooooooooooooooo!

This will continue as soon as I finished downloading and finally got to playing  :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 02:10:12 pm
If I use the advanced core, I still need the "normal" core as well, right?
Required downloads
  • Core (http://www.mediafire.com/?0dzlnhcnmgm)
  • Visuals 1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mitejzuybw1)
  • Visuals 2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?z1jjq0imb2z)
  • Audio 1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?zeulx3wyylw)
  • Audio 2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?n5zyzzizrbq)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on February 21, 2010, 02:16:43 pm
You need the patch.

However, your issue is not with the MediaVPs Advanced BPs, but the Blue Planet ones. Pull those and the skybox error should go away.

Good to see you around, Battuta!

 :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 21, 2010, 02:17:37 pm
I suspected it, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the clarification.
And the download just finished :)
GTCv Labouchere signing off :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SuperCoolAl on February 21, 2010, 02:43:12 pm
Universal Truth- Briefing stage 2 (I think) had no voice. Also the music disappeared after the cutscene.

And the mission after, whatever it's called. There was the happy music to start with and then it went away at the appropriate time but wasn't replaced by anything, don't know if this is intentional or not.

I have all the required and advanced vps. Using 3.6.12.

By the way, this campaign rocks even more now, it felt so fresh.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 21, 2010, 02:52:17 pm
Also the music disappeared after the cutscene.

Might be a code bug.  Try pausing and unpausing the game.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 03:07:24 pm
Could also be a case of pilot file corruption.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Wobble73 on February 21, 2010, 03:13:58 pm
I am so loving this so far! Up to the mission where we meet the sleeper ship so far, great voice acting people!!!!! The cutscenes seem to flow much better now!! Thank you for releasing this just as I get an upgraded computer! Perfect timing to enjoy this, although  seem to have a problem with the ADV stuff, as soon as I put those in the folder I get error messages about a missing capital ship!

Fantastic work, well done to all involved, I'm very impressed!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 21, 2010, 03:15:44 pm
seem to have a problem with the ADV stuff, as soon as I put those in the folder I get error messages about a missing capital ship!
Log plz.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 21, 2010, 03:26:03 pm
Did I say I was off to play? Well... not quite. Instead I spent the last hour or so in the Techroom.
And I really like what you did there. All the backstory and information on the weapons is just a great asset!

The only thing I didn't like too much was the naming of two turrets "Super Houndstooth mk2" and "Super Djinn mk2". Apart from not being a fan of "super x" in the first place super shouldn't be in the same name as mk2 (unless super x mk2 is an upgrade of super x).
But this is just a tiny little nitpick in the vast amoung of information stored there ;)

And this time I will really play!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Wobble73 on February 21, 2010, 03:29:11 pm
seem to have a problem with the ADV stuff, as soon as I put those in the folder I get error messages about a missing capital ship!
Log plz.

Just give me a minute to re-insert the adv stuff into the folder and create a log, although I suspect it is soemthing to do with a corrupted d/l of the adv stuff.

EDIT*** The problem seems to have disappeared now so no error log to report, it may be because this is a new rig to me, i'm still having a no disk error each time i  start the launcher which i have already reported. I seem to just be having a few teething glitches with this new rig!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: starbug on February 21, 2010, 03:37:03 pm
PURE EPIC!!!! This directors cut is just amazing, just finished it. Love the new cutscenes, effects, the voice acting, you have got amazing female voice actors there. I like the new vishnan textures and htl models.

The only problem i have had is randomly loosing all sound and music but it seems to fix its self if i quit the game and restart it, not a major issue.

Can't wait for War in Heaven!!!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 03:40:45 pm
You need the patch.

However, your issue is not with the MediaVPs Advanced BPs, but the Blue Planet ones. Pull those and the skybox error should go away.

Good to see you around, Battuta!

 :D

No way I was going to miss this. And good to see you too.  :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 03:41:47 pm
alert!

No Vishnan preserver found, or the Earth frigate......
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 03:42:34 pm
Are you using an inferno build? If not, log please.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 03:47:30 pm
Alert cancelled :nervous:



:warp:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on February 21, 2010, 03:48:57 pm
Very awesome work. I especially love how cutscenes were redone in a much more dynamic way.

And of course, voice-acting is win.

2 bugs I noticed, probably due to RC1 code problems. I'm not sure, so I'll post them here:

1. Second-to-last mission: (insane number of ships everywhere)
Sometimes dead ships remain targetable, and can receive commands, although they no longer have a presence in the mission. Applies to both hostiles and friendlies. The target window in bottom left will be blank if this happens.

2. Last mission:
Yay for Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 dialogue bug being fixed! Boo for starting the mission with nothing but 16 harpoons equipped as my primaries!

Otherwise, it was awesome to play through this campaign again. Many of the missions were not nearly as hard as I remembered them to be, which I guess is a good thing. All that lacks now is for WiH to be released :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 03:55:19 pm
We're getting some reports that there are missing briefing/CB voice acting on Universal Truth (bp-21). Is this true for everyone? Our internal SVN version, and our own tests of the VPs we uploaded, both suggest the voice acting is present.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rhymes on February 21, 2010, 03:58:10 pm
Yeah, I had that problem.  Same for the debrief of Journey's End (bp-22).  Is it possible that the downloads were corrupted?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on February 21, 2010, 04:13:27 pm
I have voice acting for all parts, though some parts skip and jump a bit.

I got my files from the mirror on the first page of the release thread.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Zacam on February 21, 2010, 04:15:13 pm
That's what MD5's are provided for, so you can check that.

I can say I have encountered no problems.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: starbug on February 21, 2010, 04:27:30 pm
Quote
We're getting some reports that there are missing briefing/CB voice acting on Universal Truth (bp-21). Is this true for everyone? Our internal SVN version, and our own tests of the VPs we uploaded, both suggest the voice acting is present.

i had that problem, but quiting the game and then restarting it sorted it for me, because i checked the VPs and they are present.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 04:28:23 pm
Really weird. :blah:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 04:31:17 pm
Post transported to another thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68225.msg1347298#msg1347298).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 04:34:45 pm
Everything works fine for me soundwise.

Spoiler:
But where are the outtakes?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 04:37:51 pm
Aren't they in the VPs? Did Fury cut them?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

FURY WHERE ARE THE OUTTAKES
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 04:40:58 pm
Gotterdämmerung.

Oh well, here, have fun... not the same as having them hidden in the VP's... but nevertheless. >_>

OrestesOuttakes.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/?yzo1jwymnyd)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2010, 04:43:00 pm
I just looked properly.


:nervous:


edit, two of mine are in there, do they play under certain conditions, in campaign i mean?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 04:44:47 pm
Right...

Please don't cause further cardiac arrests. ;7

They shouldn't play during the campaign, not that I'm aware of. They are also the only outtakes I am aware of in total.

FS2 outtakes don't play during the FS2 campaign either... :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on February 21, 2010, 05:41:29 pm
O hai, DarthGeek from IRC here.

All in all, Blue Planet was probably the best campaign I've played for FS, and one of the best mods for any game I've played in a very long time. I felt like I was part of the campaign even more than when playing the main FS campaigns. Immersion makes all the difference when it comes to FS, and I must say you guys got it right.

When I first played "A blue planet..." (this was before the re-release), I expected to see a destroyed Earth because, like I always do, I had uncovered the spoiler tags on the first few pages. But nothing prepared me for the feeling of really losing several million people to the Shivans that BP was able to create. The atmosphere surrounding both the Orestes battlegroup, the mysterious Vishnans, and the unrelenting Shivans is unparalleled in any FS campaign to date.

The ships in the battlegroup itself are "as beautiful as they are powerful". Stratcomm's fleet pack really shines as a post-fs2 expedition (or invasion, as the case may be) fleet, and the Aurora and Kulas look awesome fighting Shivans. The vishnan ships have been improved since the first BP by about three orders of magnitude- the texturing especially is simply awesome!

The background in the nebula deserves a special mention all on its own. It's beautiful and atmospheric, and even better, it's realistic! it actually seemed like I was in a nebula, instead of the generic soup that comprises most FS nebulae.

The voice acting was superb. Most of the voice was near-professional and it really added that bit of immersion that most FS campaigns lack. It was also monumentally helpful not having to read messages in the heat of battle.

The thing about BP is that it's almost completely character-driven, and it explores through the characters the things that make us human. Normally, I don't like such an introspective twist on FS campaigns- which speaks even more highly of BP, since I was able to thoroughly enjoy the campaign even though it's quite out-of-character for a story in the FS universe.

Can't wait for WiH! :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 21, 2010, 05:42:09 pm
Aaaand finished.
Played it without any of the blackmarket stuff because I wanted to compare the changes made to when I played the 3.6.9 release. My original encounter with BP was a buggy one. I had to skip missions, play the campaign with ctrl+shift+s etc. It could also be rather hard at times.

Well, here is the Director's cut. The first .12 release.
And man, talking about polishing it up. I managed to complete the campaign in one day and it was one smooth ride. It is balanced, it is good looking and it is involving. Every issue I had with the original release have been addressed in one way or an other. The story and mission flow felt more consistent. I encountered no bugs ('cept for the funny issue that I couldn't get my Ursa to fit into the Titan's hanger bay :P ) and the mission balance had no 'unfair' moments anymore.
The voice acting ranged from good to excellent. Bei at times sounded like he was about to burst into tears though :P
Special props to the female voice actors. I say this because every other female voice actor in a freespace mod I heard before just sounded really bad. Either it was the recording, the acting or just the voice in general it was all rather rubbish. However the ladies in BP:AoA all play their part very well. I only found Taylor to be annoying at times (I'm not out yet if its because of the character, the voice or a combination of both).
The campaign overall felt a bit more easy then it did before (or perhaps that's just a side effect of the good balancing done) and I had very little problems getting through it on medium. (In b4 Fury saying I should play with his A.I.) Which is a good thing BTW :P

As I already said on IRC, I wasn't too fond of the sol starfield used in mission 2 (asteroid field, dragons etc) because it really gave me the impression of a spherical texture on a mesh instead of being in space. But all the other skyboxes with the planets are absolute beauties  :yes:
The blue flak was nice too. And was I right in spotting Black Wolf created head ani's?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 06:02:31 pm
Spoon, that's great to hear, and thanks for the comments.

The voice acting ranged from good to excellent. Bei at times sounded like he was about to burst into tears though :P
Special props to the female voice actors. I say this because every other female voice actor in a freespace mod I heard before just sounded really bad. Either it was the recording, the acting or just the voice in general it was all rather rubbish. However the ladies in BP:AoA all play their part very well. I only found Taylor to be annoying at times (I'm not out yet if its because of the character, the voice or a combination of both).

Just out of interest, how did you think the in-game communications voice filtering worked out? 'Cause I want to hear what people think of it, in case someone comes up with suggestions that can be implemented in the future.

Quote
The campaign overall felt a bit more easy then it did before (or perhaps that's just a side effect of the good balancing done) and I had very little problems getting through it on medium.

You're just a better pilot now. :p


Quote
As I already said on IRC, I wasn't too fond of the sol starfield used in mission 2 (asteroid field, dragons etc) because it really gave me the impression of a spherical texture on a mesh instead of being in space. But all the other skyboxes with the planets are absolute beauties  :yes:

Just for the record, I'm repeating what I said in IRC in response to this already; I have no idea why NASA's Goddard Scientific Visualization Studio opted to make the brightest stars larger in diameter than one pixel, instead of limiting themselves to static brightness range of 255 values of intensity (plus a hint of colour for brightest stars) but I can assure that I used the best source material publicly available for rendering the starfields. I am aware that the "big stars" like Sirius for example are somewhat annoyingly big, but aside from acquiring the Tycho/Hipparcos star catalogues and figuring some way of rendering the starfield based on them in the way I would prefer, there is not really anything I can do about this issue.

However, I would like to ask if you are using regular or advanced starfields. In my experience, the advanced starfield is a bit more "star-like" than the lower resolution one.

I'm glad you liked the rest though. Oh by the way, what did you think of the Vishnan Nebula skybox? It was actually the one I thought would be the most controversial of the backgrounds in the campaign. But the one that took the most effort was the destroyed Earth... :nod:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on February 21, 2010, 06:23:40 pm
Reminds me:

Big thanks for redoing the missions that involved 10 minutes of dialogue followed by hard fights. I appreciate having missions split up where applicable, or with skippable cut-scene sections. Yes, I die a lot.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 21, 2010, 06:50:41 pm
Quote
Just out of interest, how did you think the in-game communications voice filtering worked out? 'Cause I want to hear what people think of it, in case someone comes up with suggestions that can be implemented in the future.
It was done really well. It all sounded really natural to me, at no point did I feel any of the filtering was over or poorly done. The static when Alpha wing gets separate after chasing the Duke for example was an other nice touch  :yes:
And the Vishnans just sound mighty cool.

Quote
You're just a better pilot now. :P
Well that's also a possibility  :lol:

Quote
However, I would like to ask if you are using regular or advanced starfields. In my experience, the advanced starfield is a bit more "star-like" than the lower resolution one.
I was using the advanced ones.

Quote
I'm glad you liked the rest though. Oh by the way, what did you think of the Vishnan Nebula skybox? It was actually the one I thought would be the most controversial of the backgrounds in the campaign. But the one that took the most effort was the destroyed Earth... :nod:
I'm split on that one actually. On one hand I dislike the 'real nebula' look but on the other I think it is really well made. I think it also fits the mysterious Vishnan atmosphere. It gives a feeling of "Oh, so This is what is beyond that portal. That's different." But it didn't made me feel like I was 'inside' a nebula, just that it was all around me.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 07:04:23 pm
Quote
Just out of interest, how did you think the in-game communications voice filtering worked out? 'Cause I want to hear what people think of it, in case someone comes up with suggestions that can be implemented in the future.
It was done really well. It all sounded really natural to me, at no point did I feel any of the filtering was over or poorly done. The static when Alpha wing gets separate after chasing the Duke for example was an other nice touch  :yes:
And the Vishnans just sound mighty cool.

Well for the additional effects on Alpha wing I can't take credit, they were like that when I got my grubby paws on the process. I also had nothing to do with Vishnan sound, though I agree that it's fairly awesome.

Quote
Quote
You're just a better pilot now. :P
Well that's also a possibility  :lol:

Oh trust me it is much more of a factor than you would think. No names mentioned or harm intended, but we had a beta tester who had no real flight hours in FS2, and he got stuck in Forced Entry. I still don't know what went wrong there... :nervous:

Quote
Quote
However, I would like to ask if you are using regular or advanced starfields. In my experience, the advanced starfield is a bit more "star-like" than the lower resolution one.
I was using the advanced ones.

Oh. Well, I guess it can't be helped then. :p

Quote
Quote
I'm glad you liked the rest though. Oh by the way, what did you think of the Vishnan Nebula skybox? It was actually the one I thought would be the most controversial of the backgrounds in the campaign. But the one that took the most effort was the destroyed Earth... :nod:
I'm split on that one actually. On one hand I dislike the 'real nebula' look but on the other I think it is really well made. I think it also fits the mysterious Vishnan atmosphere. It gives a feeling of "Oh, so This is what is beyond that portal. That's different." But it didn't made me feel like I was 'inside' a nebula, just that it was all around me.

Marvellous, that was pretty much the effect I was aiming for (the feeling of being inside a shell of emissive nebula, rather than flying in a fog effect used by FS2). Also the alien feeling of the environment was something that I tried to accomplish.

Just for some insight, the source material used for the nebula can be found here (http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/html/heic0910e.html) and the image material was, of course, the Carina Nebula surrounding Eta Carinae.

Whether you want to draw any conclusions as to location of that system is up to you. I don't think there's any canon location for that system, so it might as well be Eta Carinae or it's outskirts... although that nebula wouldn't be quite so intense in reality. :p Fact of the matter is though that in this case I simply used source material that was available in very high quality and was suited for conversion into spherical texture, and this one met the requirements best of all source material I could find on relatively short notice.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 07:43:41 pm
Thanks for all the praise, guys. It really means a lot, and believe it or not, it probably helps speed War in Heaven along a bit.

I am particularly fond of this in-depth discussion and critique. Yay. What did you guys think of the wingmen personas - Corey, Taylor, and the 'secret' one?

HerraTohtori's 'beyond the Knossos' nebula skybox had quite the tumultuous development. The texture contained a number of really big stars which clearly deserved (and needed to be) suns, but we didn't want to create horrible sunglare issues in the mission. Working around it took a bit of creativity and the use of some oft-ignored SCP features.

Goober5000 was pretty instrumental in getting many of our voice actors in place, simply because he helped point us towards the right places to look. I think he deserves special thanks.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 21, 2010, 08:42:12 pm
i've reached the vishnans blowing the almighty **** out of the 3 shivan destroyers (which would make a kickass cutscene i think), and so far  :yes:

the voice acting is the best i've heard in any campaign save retail, though i haven't actually played very many with voice acting.  agree with all who already stated the females are outstanding.  taylor sounds sexy  ;7 (sorry if that comes out creepy  :nervous:).  the radio filtering you asked about, i'd call perfect.  the vishnans sound awsome, though i would have had trouble understanding them without the text. (only heard them once so far).  visuals are nothing short of awe inspiring.  did the pulse cannon effect change, or am i just not remembering the original very well?

but now let me nitpick.  as with someone else who already posted (i forget who), there were one or two weak points with taylor i noticed in the early missions.  i'm not really sure how to describe it... overacted maybe?  and on that note, i found MUCH of samuel overly dramatic, particularly in the briefs/debriefs.  this is space combat with aliens intent on wiping out the human race, not shakespearan theater. :P
the nebula beyond the portal is well done, but way too bright in my opinion.  it seems like half the possible orientations have you blinded by sun glare, and when you're not, it is still rather harshly bright.  i found it difficult to use the hud in these missions. 

the cutscenes are even better than before, but i have one bug to report and one suggestion.  tagged on the off chance someone reading this hasn't ever played BP.
Spoiler:
the lucifer's model was messed up in the escape pod's cutscene.  i have a screenshot, if someone can remind me where they save  :doubt:  also for that cutscene, i was under the impression we were watching the battle from the fleeing pod's perspective.  this being the case, there are 2 problems with this cutscene - 1) (minor) it passes RIGHT next to the lucifer.  i would imagine an escape pod wouldn't want to pass that close.  2) the camera pans to the other side of the battle.  this couldn't have been recorded from the escape pod, unless it somehow got to traveling many hundred m/s.  i really liked the panning effect, but it doesn't fit in with the EP aspect.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 08:46:12 pm
Spoiler:
the lucifer's model was messed up in the escape pod's cutscene.  i have a screenshot, if someone can remind me where they save  :doubt:  also for that cutscene, i was under the impression we were watching the battle from the fleeing pod's perspective.  this being the case, there are 2 problems with this cutscene - 1) (minor) it passes RIGHT next to the lucifer.  i would imagine an escape pod wouldn't want to pass that close.  2) the camera pans to the other side of the battle.  this couldn't have been recorded from the escape pod, unless it somehow got to traveling many hundred m/s.  i really liked the panning effect, but it doesn't fit in with the EP aspect.


Spoiler:
About 1 and 2: We don't care. We think it looks cool.

About the screenshots: They are saved in <FS2 directory>\screenshots.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on February 21, 2010, 08:46:36 pm
i've reached the vishnans blowing the almighty **** out of the 3 shivan destroyers (which would make a kickass cutscene i think), and so far  :yes:

I always thought it funny that wasn't a cutscene.  I actually managed to score the kills for two of them by Harpooning a turret to death before the Vishnans blew the 'almighty ****' out of them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 08:48:25 pm
The cutscene was obviously a reconstruction of the battle based on the data found in the log computer of the escape pod.

The ships are networked to each save the status and positional data of all ships registered at the engagement zone. That way, redundant recordings are assured and even if one ship's recorders survive the engagement, it will deliver all relevant information for those who discover it.


So yeah I totally pulled that out from my ass but it would work as an explanation...  :nervous:


 :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 08:51:36 pm
The thought while constructing the camera pan was that this data had been reconstructed from the escape pod's flight data recorders, including transmitted information from nearby warships.

Or so I recall.

i've reached the vishnans blowing the almighty **** out of the 3 shivan destroyers (which would make a kickass cutscene i think), and so far  :yes:

I always thought it funny that wasn't a cutscene.  I actually managed to score the kills for two of them by Harpooning a turret to death before the Vishnans blew the 'almighty ****' out of them.

That won't work any more, since beam damage now counts towards kills in Blue Planet.

If I'd had a few more weeks to work I think I would've tweaked that scene just a little further, but it's pretty good as is.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Goober5000 on February 21, 2010, 09:03:36 pm
This is pretty awesome.  I look forward to getting home and playing this with fresh voice acting and all the other goodies. :)  Congratulations to the BP team.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 09:06:20 pm
Goober5000 was pretty instrumental in getting many of our voice actors in place, simply because he helped point us towards the right places to look. I think he deserves special thanks.

Don't miss your special thanks!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 21, 2010, 09:19:34 pm
I like what you did with "Universal Truth" regarding the Shivan response to the Vishnans.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 09:22:55 pm
We have a plan.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 21, 2010, 09:27:53 pm
We have a plan.

Oh noes!!! Blue Planet has been taken over by cylons!!! :warp:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 21, 2010, 09:30:53 pm
Yes. But unlike other Cylons, we really do have a plan. We haven't let those blasted human-form Cylons take over to screw with all those plans.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 21, 2010, 09:32:09 pm
We have a plan.

Oh noes!!! Blue Planet has been taken over by cylons!!! :warp:

Darius has a plan for you. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

We love you, Blowfish. And we always will.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2010, 09:33:58 pm
the nebula beyond the portal is well done, but way too bright in my opinion.  it seems like half the possible orientations have you blinded by sun glare, and when you're not, it is still rather harshly bright.  i found it difficult to use the hud in these missions. 

Noted. There were some concerns about that in the team as well, but it's more related on the fact that even at full brightness, the HUD isn't still quite as bright as I would want it to be.

Assuming you know to use the L key to set your HUD to brighter and still have issues, creating a fully white HUD profile might help this issue.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 21, 2010, 09:59:31 pm
i agree about the hud not being bright enough.  i do use L, but some elements are unaffected.  messages and the target box/triangles in particular I had a hard time seeing.

anywho, screwed up lucy attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 21, 2010, 10:02:38 pm
Check your mediavps.  BluePlanet doesn't modify the Lucifer model at all.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 01:02:06 am
Yep, whatever's wrong is wrong with your MVPs.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ChronoReverse on February 22, 2010, 01:47:22 am
Very nice.  Still going through it as I'm playing it slowly on Medium so I could savour it.  There's still a couple typos I've noticed (e.g., maneuverability not manoeuverability) and Bei was put as Alpha still in one scene.  Bei's voice also seems a bit soft at times whereas everyone else's voices were nicely loud and crisp.  It was nice that his voice doesn't have the "comm effect" though =)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 22, 2010, 01:51:15 am
There's still a couple typos I've noticed (e.g., maneuverability not manoeuverability)

I'm not sure but that might just be an alternate spelling.  Different things are accepted in different countries.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 02:00:28 am
Very nice.  Still going through it as I'm playing it slowly on Medium so I could savour it.  There's still a couple typos I've noticed (e.g., maneuverability not manoeuverability) and Bei was put as Alpha still in one scene.  Bei's voice also seems a bit soft at times whereas everyone else's voices were nicely loud and crisp.  It was nice that his voice doesn't have the "comm effect" though =)

I do wish we'd found a better way to amplify Sam's voice without losing quality. It's too soft as compared to the other VA. Unfortunately, simple amplification hits issues with clipping and quality loss.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Goober5000 on February 22, 2010, 02:01:49 am
Don't miss your special thanks!
Indeed!  Thank you for the thank you. :)  I'm excited to finally hear Jim Collymore, Dorothy Conway, Rina-Chan, and the others.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 22, 2010, 02:14:44 am
i just re-discovered where i saw one of the weird dialouge lines before.  after destroying the lucifer, "without your intervention, the outcome would have surely been uncertain"

? :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 02:17:42 am
I like the UEF red alert siren. :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on February 22, 2010, 02:26:11 am
Gah, it's waaaay too late to play this now.  I know what I'm doing tomorrow, though. :)

(The completionist part of me is wondering if I shouldn't go through the original release after playing through this, since it's been long enough that I don't think I'll notice some of the more subtle changes. :p)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 22, 2010, 02:31:00 am
i just re-discovered where i saw one of the weird dialouge lines before.  after destroying the lucifer, "without your intervention, the outcome would have surely been uncertain"

? :wtf:

The Lucifer and the Orestes had been playing cat and mouse for a while. Presumably they could have continued the merry chase with the Lucy for some time still. The critical thing for the player to do was to prevent the Lucifer from jumping away once it required repairs.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 02:54:38 am
I finished forced entry and so far I'm astonished. The voice acting is great and the different amounts of static depending on how far away the ships are from the player is really nice.
I don't think that Bei is overacting. His performance is just right. The only exception would be in Ceremonies. I think he could have tried to speak with more conviction. His tone of voice is conversational, not that of someone who beliefs in the GTVAs ideals with all his heart.

As far as bugs go, I didn't run into a single problem so far, with the exception of forgetting to switch to a Inf build in the beginning (seeing a Ulysses instead of a Vishnan ship in the nebula was quite the WTF moment) and having to replay the first few missions because of it. Thanks again for the skip option in the cutscenes.

In case anyone's interrested I'm using the latest nighly build (fs2_open_3_6_11r_INF_SSE-20100131_r5862.exe), but I had to disable post-processing, since it crashed. Since I never tried to run the game with PP before, I can't tell wether this is due to BP or a general problem yet.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 22, 2010, 02:57:07 am
Norbert, aren't you aware that 3.6.12 RC1 has been out for several days? It would be well worth upgrading. Hell, RC1 is recommended in the BP installation instructions! Crash was because you don't have post processing shaders installed, link to the shaders is in the RC1 topic.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 22, 2010, 03:10:39 am
i just re-discovered where i saw one of the weird dialouge lines before.  after destroying the lucifer, "without your intervention, the outcome would have surely been uncertain"

? :wtf:

The Lucifer and the Orestes had been playing cat and mouse for a while. Presumably they could have continued the merry chase with the Lucy for some time still. The critical thing for the player to do was to prevent the Lucifer from jumping away once it required repairs.

i understand the situation, i just think the phrase "would have surely been uncertain" sounds very strange.  am i the only one?  i'll shut up.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 03:15:35 am
It does sound odd to use surely uncertain. Uncertain is a pretty concrete word without a need for emphasis.
 
 
But I can live with it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 03:31:55 am
Quote
Norbert, aren't you aware that 3.6.12 RC1 has been out for several days? It would be well worth upgrading. Hell, RC1 is recommended in the BP installation instructions! Crash was because you don't have post processing shaders installed, link to the shaders is in the RC1 topic.
No I wasn't. When I saw the Highlight, I just ran straight to the BP forum, ignoring everything else. I only made a quick stop into the SCP forum to grab the nighly build when I noticed I didn't have any recent INF build.

I now saved the Orestes and consorts from the shivan attack in "preserving the balance" and noticed that the bomb shockwave damage was massivly reduced. While I certainly think it's good not to get instantly killed by bombs, I think you took too much damage out of them.
As for the Vishnan voices, they kind of remind me of a mix of Babylon 5s Vorlons (especially evil Kosh), Starcrafts Overmind and a Robot. And all that mixed with a british accent. Which maked for a quite unique and interresting combination. I too had problems understanding their first few lines, but I quickly got used to it, and was able to understand the last few lines of that mission very well.

As for the starfield in the unknown system, I expected flying in there to be quite horrible because of all the suns (warzones, while being a good campaign, was really painfull for my eyes because of their use of suns), but for some reason it wasn't. Whatever that creative workaround and seldom used SCP-feature are that General Battuta mentioned, they seem to have worked nicely. I also had barely any problems with my HUD. The only thing that is hard to make out is the text line on top, but due to BP now being voiceacted, that's not much of a problem.

And thank you for the change of the demons weapons in "preserving the balance". Knocking out it's side-beam in the old BP was a horror, because of it's massive HP and high rate of fire (along with the incompetence of my wingmen, who were supposed to keep enemy fighters off my back - but didn't).

Just one more question: Why are there all the shivan weapons unlocked in the Techroom, but not a single Shivan ship?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 22, 2010, 03:38:21 am
Probably because you have a new pilot so the hidden ships are hidden to begin with, and BP campaign is not designed to "unveil" ships in the tech room...

Pressing Ctrl+Shift+S will reveal all tech room entries.

Regarding the suns, I simply made a SunWhiteDummy.dds (copy of SunWhite.dds) and added SunWhiteDummy entry into our modular stars table which had zero light intensity, no glare and no flare, so it just shows the bitmap and glow of the star in the background superimposed on where the largest stars were.  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 04:02:48 am
Apart from being suggested in the release thread, I had no other choice than creating a new pilot, since so far I only played BP with an non-inf build, and the two have seperate pilot files.

I just noticed a problem with the collision detection of the Sacred Keeper. The actuall hull seems to be a bit below the texture. Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots. For some reason they aren't placed into the screenshot directory and pasting the shot into another programm just gives me a black picture....

And a little typo in the Commanche's Techroom entry. "The Oast 50 years havn't...."
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 22, 2010, 04:05:56 am
The Keeper's collision detection seemed to be fine when I tested it.  How far below is it?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 22, 2010, 04:15:08 am
I just noticed a problem with the collision detection of the Sacred Keeper. The actuall hull seems to be a bit below the texture. Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots. For some reason they aren't placed into the screenshot directory and pasting the shot into another programm just gives me a black picture....

Might be clipping plane related?

Does the texture sort of disappear as you get closer to it, or does the viewpoint (or your fighter's nose) clearly breach the surface? You could try adding something like -clipdist 0.1 into the custom command line to test that, though I don't know if that could even possibly be the case.

Regarding the screenshot issue - do you have a directory named screenshots? Is your FS2_Open in C:\Program Files\ and you're running Windows Vista/7? Some ATI cards have had a history of problems with screenshots, but not having them saved at all is strange.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 06:09:59 am
I have Windows Vista 64 bit, but my FS in installed on D:\Spiele\FreeSpace2 and a Nvidia 9800 GTX+.
There is a screenshot folder, but it only contains my old shots from Win XP (I had the same graphiccard back then as I have now).

As for the clipping, with the spacesuit I could fly in about so far that only the helmet and part of the engines showed, before I collided with the hull. From inside the "cockpit" I could see out of the other side of the keeper and had the texture as a line about 2/3 up the screen. I'll try if I can make a screenshot with fraps.

Now back to more joyfull topics.
I am through and I can report that with the exception of a single, barely noticable skip on the first page of the command briefing in "Universal Truth" there was no problem with any soundfiles. In the flashback to the past the music that started after the arifiel arrieved stoped after about 15 seconds, but in every other mission and cutscene, it played correctly.
And the music that is now playing in the last mission,
Spoiler:
after the destruction of the Renjian
is truly great. It really made my skin crawl.
Though I too had the problem of my fighter starting without any primaries and the secondaries having somehow wandered up a bit, looking as if the Harpoons were the primaries (though they still fire fine as missiles, while nothing happens when pushing the primary weapon fire button).

I also had two very desperate moment in the fight against the Sathanas. First the Sath still had a beam turret when it came in range. The first shot tore the Orestes to 38%. And since it was already warming up for a 2nd and I didn't have a bomb lock I was sure it was all over. Just two Helios entered my field of vision and blow the turret just in time.
So I thought the thrilling part was over, but it wasn't. While the Sath went down the Orestes almost hit me with her beam. And then came the Sathanas shockwave and pushed me into the outer edges of the beam....
Again I though it would all be over, but somehow I survived it....
I wish I would have that as a video, that was really an intense experiance :)

Oh and I LVOE the personas you gave the Vishnans.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 22, 2010, 06:17:47 am
I have Windows Vista 64 bit, but my FS in installed on D:\Spiele\FreeSpace2 and a Nvidia 9800 GTX+.
There is a screenshot folder, but it only contains my old shots from Win XP (I had the same graphiccard back then as I have now).

As for the clipping, with the spacesuit I could fly in about so far that only the helmet and part of the engines showed, before I collided with the hull. From inside the "cockpit" I could see out of the other side of the keeper and had the texture as a line about 2/3 up the screen. I'll try if I can make a screenshot with fraps.

Just to make sure, check the last modified date of the screenshots, or even sort by date. The screenshot counter sometimes flips over to zero and starts overwriting the old shots...

Good to hear you enjoyed playing the campaign. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on February 22, 2010, 06:25:56 am
Indeed. Thanks for everyone's feedback so far, it really does make all the hard work worthwhile :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 06:27:41 am
Here's an odd one for you. The loading screen for the intro cutscene (as are all others) appears to be in a different fov for the actual mission. At first I thought it was my screen resolution but i've been through the acceptable standards ie 1024x768 etc.
 
What's the default as H don't recall ever changing it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 22, 2010, 06:30:50 am
What did you guys think of the wingmen personas - Corey, Taylor, and the 'secret' one?

Well, we do know that he's the son of Mackie from Derelict, or vice-versa... ;)


Goober5000 was pretty instrumental in getting many of our voice actors in place, simply because he helped point us towards the right places to look. I think he deserves special thanks.

ST:R was delayed because Goober had to learn how to pull the strings. Since he's already done it for ST:R, he would know how to do this one better. :)

Now, about some things I forgot to mention in my post on page one...

I really, really love the in-game cutscenes. The hell with them being long ... you cannot get more moving cutscenes than the ones in Blue Planet. The Lucifer cutscene takes the cake, really. When I heard the music and saw it zooming and panning out to the firefight, I was so close to tearing and screaming, "OH GOD NO".

The Vishnan voices are excellent. It sounds very Vasudan in several places (even though it's all normal English with audio effects).

The only jarring bit is that I can more or less discern trained voice actors from HLP voices. The Beis, for instance, sound very professional (which is probably fine since they're Commander and Admiral), but when you add the Colonol's more down-to-earth voice into the mix, it's a bit ... off. You would think that the people operating one of the finest ships in the GTVA would sound pretty similar to the ones ordering it about.

Whoever did the voice for Iwakura sounded like she did the female voice for the Ancient monologues in FS1 too. That's a compliment, mind you.

Here's an odd one for you. The loading screen for the intro cutscene (as are all others) appears to be in a different fov for the actual mission. At first I thought it was my screen resolution but i've been through the acceptable standards ie 1024x768 etc.
 
What's the default as H don't recall ever changing it.

I believe it's 0.55, but I use 0.39 and it looks just fine.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on February 22, 2010, 06:36:57 am
Regarding opening loading screen mismatch, the fov of the opening cutscene got changed as one of the very last commits before release. Somehow it managed to escape the attention of the dev staff so that we could get a replacement image, but it was deemed to be a minor issue and easily fixable.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 06:37:29 am
Yep it really only reset the counter and overwrote my old screenshot and I just didn't notice, because I only looked at the last two....

Anyway taking the screenshots with Fraps worked too.
The clipping seems to work correctly for most of the ship. Behind the position seen in the shots it certainly does, but further to the front of the Keeper I could even go so deep into the keeper that nothing of my spacesuit showed anymore.

And to think I only noticed this was because I got a bit mischiefious and (succesfully ;) ) tried to make the missionaries that escroted me, crash into the keeper.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 22, 2010, 08:47:26 am
I was wondering from a technical FREDing point of view: Why did you guys go with 'camera ships' for cutscenes? Cause you know, there are always people like me that will test the impossible and do Shift+o in cutscenes for example :P  
"Oooh a Erinyes camera host, I wish I could take it with me"  :lol:

Edit: I also noticed that some ships have incorrect data in the ship selection screen. Like the perseus only has '2 gun mounts'?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 22, 2010, 09:06:46 am
Edit: I also noticed that some ships have incorrect data in the ship selection screen. Like the perseus only has '2 gun mounts'?
Eh? Perseus has TWO gun mounts. Gun mounts and gun points are two different things. Besides, BP doesn't change loadout descriptions.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 22, 2010, 09:25:24 am
Mouhahahaha

Very last mission, the Planet Killer theme from HW2. :yes: Gotcha. You can't hide any Homeworld feature from me.

By the way I loved the Vishnan voices.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 09:29:36 am
I caught that too. :yes:
 
We can't risk losing our tap badges.
 
 
So it appears I can keep nehru alive beyond his first appearance mission?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 22, 2010, 09:40:05 am
Edit: I also noticed that some ships have incorrect data in the ship selection screen. Like the perseus only has '2 gun mounts'?
Eh? Perseus has TWO gun mounts. Gun mounts and gun points are two different things. Besides, BP doesn't change loadout descriptions.
The Perseus has two gun BANKS and 4 gun MOUNTS. The description is wrong.
Check out the description of the herc 2, it has 4 gun mounts in the data (which is correct). The myrm has 6 gun mounts, 2 gun banks,  the aurora has 6 gun mounts (4, 2 aka, 2 banks)

also: TAP member combo chain!  :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: OsirisFLFan on February 22, 2010, 09:41:28 am
This thread is for discussion of the voice-acted version of Age of Aquarius.

Before the discussion gets going though, I'd like to thank everyone who was involved in this project: the dev staff, voice actors and those who submitted their auditions, and the beta testers. You've all helped turn a one-person fan campaign into a pretty damn cool mod, and it's been a pleasure.

Special thanks must go to General Battuta, Rian and The E for their tireless work in co-coordinating the voice acting.

Firstly i must say....YEEEESSSSS......secondly.....THANK YOUTHANK YOUTHANK YOUTHANK YOUTHANK YOU....and lastly.....God Bless us every one.....
Back to reality the mod was already great the voice acting added a little more chutzpah to it. And i like the new ship textures. The Temeraire looks great especially since you can notice the small rivets and metal texture designs (more sci-fi).

I was just wonderig the voice for taylor or corey (not sure which one)...didn't that person do the voice acting for the Babylon 5 Achen training missions ?!?!?!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 22, 2010, 09:54:29 am
The Perseus has two gun BANKS and 4 gun MOUNTS. The description is wrong.
Check out the description of the herc 2, it has 4 gun mounts in the data (which is correct). The myrm has 6 gun mounts, 2 gun banks,  the aurora has 6 gun mounts (4, 2 aka, 2 banks)
Then go complain to FSU.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 22, 2010, 10:04:58 am
The Perseus has two gun BANKS and 4 gun MOUNTS. The description is wrong.
Check out the description of the herc 2, it has 4 gun mounts in the data (which is correct). The myrm has 6 gun mounts, 2 gun banks,  the aurora has 6 gun mounts (4, 2 aka, 2 banks)
Then go complain to FSU.
Remember last time someone proposed changes to be made for little things like this? Small fixes? Yeah, that was some really nice ****storm  :lol:
But I don't see why BP wouldn't adjust minor things like this?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 10:09:25 am
The cost/benefit analysis for going through all the retail ship entries and adding corrective entries to the BP .tbms was not favorable.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Alex Navarro on February 22, 2010, 10:12:59 am
Hehe. The Neruh's scream in mission 2 makes Blue Planet "filmly"  ;) . Great VA.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 22, 2010, 11:28:45 am
Here's a suggestion. How about making a custom mission featuring the UEFg Karuna? The ship forms backbone of the UEF fleet, isn't anyone curious what the ship is actually capable of? ;)

(Though Karuna's point defense turret is not what it should be because fs2_open 3.6.10 does not support $Burst. This is corrected in the 3.6.12 Feature Pack.)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 11:32:49 am
It certainly is capable of knocking a good 40% hullintegrity out of the Orestes with it's debris  :p at least it did on my playthrough.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 11:58:12 am
Here's a suggestion. How about making a custom mission featuring the UEFg Karuna? The ship forms backbone of the UEF fleet, isn't anyone curious what the ship is actually capable of? ;)

(Though Karuna's point defense turret is not what it should be because fs2_open 3.6.10 does not support $Burst. This is corrected in the 3.6.12 Feature Pack.)

 
It won't sound the same without Darius driving it.
 
 
But I might have a go. Nice extra mainhall by the way :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 22, 2010, 12:20:25 pm
Extra mainhall? :eek:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rodo on February 22, 2010, 12:43:06 pm
god dammit! those AI changes made the shivans fierce fighters, I can barely finish the missions on medium.

and I love to get pwned by shivans, great work :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 01:17:02 pm
Extra mainhall? :eek:

Check your .VPs pilot!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: VPR on February 22, 2010, 03:17:01 pm
Just finished playing through and I have to say this is a significant improvement over the original release, which in itself was good quality.

Spoiler:
First off the biggest single improvement for me was the Vishnan section of the campaign. The new skyboxes for this part (and outside of it) had to be one of the biggest gains in immersion factor for me and easily equalled the added immersion of the voice overs. The first release version of this was good but it just didn't pull me in enough to what was going on storywise, this time it properly hit the mark for me and was more clear.

New models where also very good, again the Vishnans were a big improvement along with the Sanctuary's forces and that previously ugly spacesuit! :p

Backstory is often missing in most of the campaigns I've played so far or is only lightly touched on as if it's an after thought. It was good to see this level of effort put in for Blue Planet (on your website and in game), it must have taken a large amount of time and I think it paid off bigtime as it added greatly to the setting of the campaign. It also shows the level of pride your team has for their work to put in so much effort to immerse players before they even get to playing the missions.

Changes in the dialogue along with voice overs also made it more clear of what was going on overall and as said by others the cutscenes were also greatly improved and played out much better,
Spoiler:
especially the death of Bei's mother and sister.
Much better done in regards to camera positioning and direction this time around.

I played through with Fury's enhancements from the start (on medium difficulty) which did seem to make combat play better.
Spoiler:
The Dragon swarm in the second earth patrol mission was a bit hairy to say the least. The mission where you protected the GTC Duke against the Demon had to be possibly the hardest part in the campaign for me (probably due to Fury's AI and the fact I only had 30% hull left at the start of it).

Last but not least the music. How much does a good soundtrack add to things. I think the music even in the first release was very good and certainly no worse than what we've heard on TV shows such as the recent Battlestar Galactica series. It really does compliment this campaign as much as the voice overs if not more. To me it is one of the strong points of AoA that really stands out. It's good to see other projects like Earth Defence for example making good use of their own in-house produced music.

So now for the criticisms and nitpicks.

The only problem I had with the voice was the command briefings from Captain Al'Faddil at the start of the campaign. Sometimes the speech dipped low enough it was inaudable in places.

Spoiler:
I'm sure previously a Lilith used to attack the Sanctuary near the end of Universal Truth? Removing it made the mission seem a little less challenging and unfortunately kind of took the edge off of it.

Terran wingman built-in messages play in the first Vishnan flyable mission (The Great Preservers) if you order them to depart, I haven't tried similar orders outside of this Vishnan mission however, again minor as you can just leave the depart orders alone.

Wing reservation keys (function keys) weren't used much in most missions. Yes this is a very minor nitpick but I personally like to be able to bring a wing up quickly in battle and see what they're currently doing. It can help management (personally) if events change quickly during a mission and you need to see where allied wings are at a single press of a button and what they're doing.

Other than that it was a pleasure to play again. The obvious hard work put into the voice-overs and graphical enhancements have been well worth the wait and I'm now looking forward to playing War in Heaven when it's ready. Great work!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 22, 2010, 03:42:42 pm
you can set the wing hotkeys yourself in-mission. 

add me to the tally of observing strange AI behavior.  i saw one of them inside that box-like cutout in the orestes, merrily flying back and forth, bashing himself repeatedly into the walls.  he was down to about 14 % hull before the sathanas arrived and he stopped  :lol: (see shots below)

also, one last glitch found, the hud ammo got screwed up in the final mission after ariving in sol. (3rd attach)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 22, 2010, 03:56:20 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 04:11:54 pm
No. There was no room in the story and nothing more seemed necessary. It would have been a bad idea to mess with some nearly pitch-perfect pacing.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 22, 2010, 05:03:19 pm
The Lilith in forced entry is still there, but instead of immediately firing away after jumping in, it now takes a little time before it starts. Enough time to reach it with an Aurora and take the main gun out with Kaysers (after double Trebs only put the turret down to 79% due to bad angle).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Iss Mneur on February 22, 2010, 05:57:18 pm
Fantastic!

Much better than the original release, which I stopped playing at forced entry because it was pissing me off so much.  I very much look forward to the next chapter of Blue Planet.

The only problem I had with the voice was the command briefings from Captain Al'Faddil at the start of the campaign. Sometimes the speech dipped low enough it was inaudable in places.

Noticed that too, but I changed sound settings as suggested in the release thread and that fixed my problems with understanding the voices.  Though I haven't gone back and checked to see if it helped with the first couple of missions.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 05:59:39 pm
Al'Faddil was another case where we just couldn't find a way to amplify the audio without losing quality and causing horrible clipping. It's a shame, too, since Dave Reggi's performance was great.

In fact, I'd like to ask for specific praise for these actors that we can pass back to them.

And yeah, setting music to 2/3rds volume should solve the problem.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 22, 2010, 06:00:55 pm
Indeedery. Our VAs deserve praise by the truckload.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 22, 2010, 06:30:12 pm
Hehe. The Neruh's scream in mission 2 makes Blue Planet "filmly"  ;) . Great VA.

Heh, that was actually my idea in a spur of a moment. It was well received in the team, I made the scream file from the famous scream and added a bit of static to the end, and Nehru's final moments became a bit more memorable. Here's the exact quote from our developement channel:


Quote
<@HerraTohtori> hooray
<@HerraTohtori> I managed to keep Nehru alive :D
<@The_E> What
<@The_E> But
<@The_E> He's a goddamn redshirt
<@The_E> He's supposed to have a semi-tragic death
<@HerraTohtori> mwahaha
<@The_E> You have robbed him of his destiny
<@HerraTohtori> he didn't even have a death scream
<@HerraTohtori> hey
<@HerraTohtori> could we use the Wilhelm Scream??
<@The_E> Hell yes we couls
<@The_E> *could


 :p


Also, here's a little slice of life from another time, when we were solving a mysterious problem in "Finding Sanctuary". It's a bit long for an irc quote, but it's definitely worth reading, it's funny and will give you a bit of an insight to what kind of things can go wrong when playtesting a mission - and what can be done to prevent the players from ruining the mission... :lol:


Code: [Select]
19:46 <@HerraTohtori> huzzah I beat Finding Sanctuary on Insane
19:46 <@HerraTohtori> it's a frustrating mission
19:46 <@Fury`> with or without 3612?
19:46 <@HerraTohtori> with
19:46 <@Fury`> hehe
19:47 <@HerraTohtori> the first wing of Nahemas expends their bombs at the Sanctuary and there's nothing you can do about it
19:47 <@HerraTohtori> then the second wing launches their bombs outside the sensor range
19:47 <@HerraTohtori> so you have to be at the right place to intercept that volley of bombs
19:48 <@HerraTohtori> and you need to destroy the second wing of Nahemas really fast
19:48 <@HerraTohtori> while flying an Aurora -_-
19:48 <@Fury`> egads
19:48 <@Fury`> I was blinded by your nebula skybox again
19:48 <@HerraTohtori> post processing...
19:48 <@HerraTohtori> or sun glare?
19:49 <@HerraTohtori> anyway
19:49 <@Fury`> I swear I had HUD enabled too
19:49 <@Fury`> but it seems to vanish somewhere into the nebula
19:50 <@HerraTohtori> Finding Sanctuary IS possible on Insane and with 3612 mod. But it's damn hard and you need to know what to do prior to the mission
19:50 <@HerraTohtori> so it's kinda lame
19:50 <@HerraTohtori> I prefer missions where you can respond instead of anticipate and still beat the mission
19:50 <@HerraTohtori> of course on lower difficulties the weapons do less damage, at least without the 3612 AI mods
19:51 -!- DarthGeek is now known as DarthGeek|AFK
19:51 <@HerraTohtori> the Sanctuary is at around 30% hull if you're lucky once you reach it and can start doing something
19:51 <@HerraTohtori> the distance from "the sanctuary is hailing us" needs to be at least half what it is now
19:52 <@HerraTohtori> just my opinion
20:00 <@HerraTohtori> either that OR the first wing of Nahemas needs to be changed to something a little less dangerous
20:01 <@HerraTohtori> maybe Nephilims or Taurvis
20:06 <@Battutaway> HerraTohtori: could you replay Finding Sanctuary
20:06 <@Battutaway> right now
20:06 <@Battutaway> please tell me what distance you are at when the Sanctuary hails you
20:07 <@Battutaway> it should be seven klicks; if it is not something is VERY wrong
20:07 <@HerraTohtori> ok
20:09 -!- DarthGeek|AFK is now known as DarthGeek
20:14 <@HerraTohtori> Battutaway: distance, 18 klicks
20:16 <@HerraTohtori> http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9980/sanctuarydistancehorrib.png
20:17 <@Battutaway> what.
20:17 <@Battutaway> the ****.
20:17 <@Battutaway> are you on latest SVN?
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> I followed Iwakura
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> yes
20:18 <@Battutaway> goddamn WHAT THE HELL.
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> then the Sanctuary appeared *behind us*
20:18 <@Battutaway> what was her time-to-waypoints counter at?
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> and Iwakura/Tell did a 180
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> time-to-whowah
20:18 <@HerraTohtori> ?
20:19 <@Battutaway> if you target her
20:19 <@Battutaway> it'll say how long it'll be until she reaches the end of her waypoints
20:19 <@HerraTohtori> oh
20:19 <@HerraTohtori> zero
20:19 <@HerraTohtori> no orders
20:19 <@Battutaway> ...
20:20 <@Battutaway> and this was on?
20:20 <@Battutaway> 3.6.10?
20:20 <@Battutaway> could you load up 3.6.11 and play the mission?
20:20 <@Battutaway> I have a crawling, creeping suspicion as to what this is
20:21 <@HerraTohtori> actually, I'm playing with 3.6.11
20:21 <@HerraTohtori> as I had 3.6.12 mod activated
20:21 <@HerraTohtori> but it doesn't change missions right?
20:21 <@Fury`> I played it just earlier and distance was ~7km
20:21 <@HerraTohtori> hmh
20:21 <@Battutaway> yeah...last time I played it it was ~7km
20:21 <@Battutaway> why, why, why why would it ever change
20:21 <@HerraTohtori> lemme ditch the 3612 mod and play it on 3.6.10 INF
20:21 <@Battutaway> okay
20:22 <@The_E> HerraTohtori: You sure you played the latest version?
20:22 <@Battutaway> see, this is why I was asking people to test
20:22 <@HerraTohtori> updated SVN right before playing
20:22 <@HerraTohtori> I can do it again...
20:22 <@HerraTohtori> and the build in question is r5862 inf sse2
20:23 <@HerraTohtori> ok, running it now
20:23 <@HerraTohtori> with 3.6.10 inf
20:23 <@The_E> Okay, starting distance is 23k
20:24 <@HerraTohtori> oh by the way
20:24 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori: As said, the 3612 mod doesn't alter missions themselves in any way. It only adds new weapon effects and customized AI classes.
20:25 <@HerraTohtori> do you want me to run a moderate strength Leveller filter to Sam's lines in "Finding Sanctuary"?
20:25 <@HerraTohtori> they're a bit weak compared to the lightning strokes going around all the time
20:25 <@Battutaway> yeah, please do :)
20:26 <@Battutaway> The_E: yeah that sounds right...you mean distance AT START OF MISSION, right?
20:26 <@Battutaway> not when the distress call goes off?
20:26 <@The_E> Yeah
20:27 <@Battutaway> okay, whew
20:27 <@The_E> Just trying to figure out how much time there has to pass before the events uncloaking the Sanctuary fire
20:27 <@The_E> I already know that it's a minute after the Eriana vision
20:28 <@HerraTohtori> ok, this time the distance is about 8000 when the sanctuary uncloaks
20:28 <@HerraTohtori> and it is ahead of us
20:28 <@Battutaway> good
20:28 <@Battutaway> that's how it should work every time
20:29 <@HerraTohtori> ok, now we need to figure out what changes it
20:29 <@Battutaway> if you were playing with the 3.6.12 mod, it's possible that the Fury AI is much faster because it has smart afterburner use
20:29 <@HerraTohtori> is it the build or the 3612 AI changes
20:29 <@The_E> Okay, it should happen predictably 196 seconds into the mission
20:29 <@Battutaway> yeah
20:29 <@HerraTohtori> also this time I played on medium
20:30 <@Battutaway> that should make no difference, I pray
20:31 <@The_E> 196 second's travel at around 90 mps should move them a distance of 17640 meters, given that we are not travelling in a straight line at
               constant speed, about 7k distance to target once it screams for help should be right
20:31 <@Fury`> Battutaway: sorry but your theory is false
20:32 <@Fury`> I played it earlier today WITH 3612 mod
20:32 <@Fury`> distance to the Sanctuary was ~7km
20:32 -!- Snail [[email protected]] has joined #bp
20:32 <@The_E> There are literally no variables in that mission that should screw this up
20:32 <@Battutaway> I concur
20:33 <@HerraTohtori> holy **** the mission became easy :D
20:33 <@Battutaway> yes
20:33 <@Battutaway> it's supposed to be
20:33 <@HerraTohtori> sanctuary at 43% hull
20:33 <@HerraTohtori> on medium
20:33 <@Battutaway> there's a huge dialogue chain before the combat...failure should NOT happen
20:33 <@Fury`> In fact, I've retried the mission up to three times with 3612 mod and each time it was in 7-8km range
20:33 <@Fury`> perhaps little less than 7km once
20:34 <@Fury`> Iwakura and co. do not use afterburners when they travel the waypoints
20:34 <@Battutaway> okay. what we need to do is just test this on 3.6.10 and 3.6.11 latest
20:34 <@Battutaway> and make sure there is no difference.
20:34 <@Battutaway> can everyone do that now?
20:34 <@Battutaway> Battuta|test
20:34 -!- Battutaway is now known as Battuta|test
20:34 <@Battuta|test> lulz
20:34 <@Fury`> already tested in .11 several times
20:35 <@Battuta|test> woo, District 9 tabled track
20:35 <@Battuta|test> fewking awesome
20:35 <@Battuta|test> fewking prawns
20:37 <@Fury`> District 9? Well damn, if that's where it's from, the movie is probably way too new to be used in BP
20:37 -!- DarthGeek is now known as DarthGeek|AFK
20:38 <@Battuta|test> eh
20:38 <@Battuta|test> we've got Assassin's Creed music, it's fine
20:38 <@Battuta|test> we had stuff from the Children of Dune miniseries too
20:38 <@HerraTohtori> ok
20:38 <@HerraTohtori> fun fun
20:38 <@Battuta|test> and stuff from Final Fantasy Advent Children
20:38 <@HerraTohtori> changed difficulty to isane
20:38 <@HerraTohtori> insane
20:39 <@HerraTohtori> distance to sanctuary, 16.5 klicks
20:39 <@HerraTohtori> no other changes
20:39 <@HerraTohtori> 3.6.10 INF
20:39 <@HerraTohtori> I have no idea how it happens but there it is
20:39 <@The_E> HerraTohtori: Use a new pilot
20:39 <@HerraTohtori> roger that
20:41 <@Battuta|test> jesus...
20:41 <@Battuta|test> how could that be?
20:41 <@HerraTohtori> running with new pilot now
20:41 <@HerraTohtori> on insane
20:41 <@The_E> Okay, Sanctuary at 6421
20:42 <@Battuta|test> at what distance?
20:42 <@Battuta|test> sorry, on what difficulty?
20:43 <@The_E> Medium
20:43 <@Battuta|test> k, try on insane?
20:44 <@HerraTohtori> 13.4 km...
20:45 <@HerraTohtori> there's something funky about the waypoints for iwakura/tell
20:46 <@Battuta|test> apparently...
20:46 <@Battuta|test> did you keep an eye on their time-to-waypoint counter to see what would happen?
20:46 <@HerraTohtori> doing that now
20:48 <@The_E> Played on insane, no difference
20:49 <@The_E> Sanctuary at about 7k from my position, Iwakura and tell following waypoints steadily
20:50 <@HerraTohtori> 17 km. I think I'm starting to understand what goes wrong. Lemme run one more time to check.
20:51 -!- Snail [[email protected]] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Snail_))]
20:53 <@Fury`> I think fs2_open recognizes how l33t HerraTohtori is and is making the mission harder
20:54 <@Fury`> well I honestly wouldn't prefer to use such well-known tracks that are/can still be financial gold mines to rights holders
20:54 <@HerraTohtori> ok, 7600 metres
20:54 <@HerraTohtori> I think I know what goes wrong
20:54 <@Fury`> it's sorta risky but Darius' call
20:54 <@HerraTohtori> Iwakura and Tell are easily distracted from their navigational tasks
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> if the player, say, shoots past them to pass the time or just to spook them
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> they evade
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> and they never get back on track
20:55 <@The_E> ...
20:55 <@The_E> ...
20:55 <@The_E> ...
20:55 <@The_E> ...
20:55 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori: are you spooking them on purpose almost every time you play?
20:55 <@The_E> Once you do that, the AI has known issues getting back on track
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> I'm trying to break the missions here
20:56 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori: that's just sick :p
20:56 <@HerraTohtori> with apparent success
20:56 <@The_E> IIRC, they try to go back to the last waypoint visited before continuing on
20:56 <@HerraTohtori> that explains it then
20:56 <@HerraTohtori> so can they just be given one single waypoint?
20:57 <@The_E> In other words, Don't Shoot Your Wingmen.
20:57 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori: yeah, but you reported this happening to you quite often, so are you distracting them somehow almost every time you play the
               mission?
20:57 <@HerraTohtori> ...maybe
20:57 <@HerraTohtori> >_>
20:57 <@Fury`> sick man
20:57 <@The_E> Can you try to NOT do that?
20:57 <@The_E> At least once?
20:57 <@HerraTohtori> I just did
20:57 <@HerraTohtori> 7600 metres
20:58 <@Battuta|test> ahahahahahaha
20:58 <@Fury`> or you can just disable player's weapons until sanctuary is visible :D
20:58 <@Battuta|test> ahaha
20:58 <@Battuta|test> ahahahahahahahaha
20:58 <@Battuta|test> this is the greatest bugfix ever
20:58 <@HerraTohtori> yes, laugh it up
20:58 <@HerraTohtori> but when someone comes around complaining that the sanctuary is too far you will know why :D
20:58 <@Battuta|test> would turning on 'no dynamic goals' help?
20:58 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori - The Man Who Shoots His Wingmen On Back
20:58 <@HerraTohtori> not at them
20:58 <@HerraTohtori> around
20:58 <@The_E> I can see the entry under known issues "My weapons in bp-07 are disabled. Answer: Yes. We know. Ask Herra why we did it.
20:59 <@The_E> Battuta|test: Nope
20:59 <@Fury`> The_E: golden :p
20:59 <@Fury`> DO IT
20:59 <@Battuta|test> should I disable player weapons until the distress call?
21:00 <@Battuta|test> it'd prevent them from shooting at the Vishnans too
21:00 <@Fury`> I think yes
21:00 <@The_E> Yeah
21:00 <@Fury`> both primaries and secondaries
21:00 <@HerraTohtori> put in training message that says MASTER ARM ON
21:00 <@Battuta|test> HerraTohtori: this was on Insane, right? the last test?
21:00 <@HerraTohtori> yeah
21:00 <@Battuta|test> also, yeah, ****ing awesome idea
21:00 <@Battuta|test> okay, so we've confirmed that it's 7 clicks on insane
21:00 <@Battuta|test> if you don't shoot your wingdudes
21:00 <@HerraTohtori> seems so
21:00 <@Fury`> it's 7 clicks on any difficulty
21:00 <@HerraTohtori> assuming the player doesn't have a sick mind
21:00 <@Fury`> give or take 0.5km
21:01 <@The_E> Yeah, you need to travel a fixed distance for a fixed time
21:01 <@Fury`> Battuta|test: is it possible to make thos vishnan non-collide via sexps?
21:01 <@The_E> Unless you screw up, you will always end up in the same position
21:01 <@HerraTohtori> but given the ghost ships that appear and spout psychic messages I think it's fairly safe to say someone will try to shoot at them
21:01 <@HerraTohtori> just to see what happens
21:02 <@HerraTohtori> then the wingmen will be spooked...
21:02 <@HerraTohtori> and you know the rest
21:02 <@Fury`> And the rest is history
21:02 < Wanderer> ok... i guess its time to start staring at the code again
21:02 <@Fury`> literally :D
21:02 <@HerraTohtori> yes, quite
21:02 <@HerraTohtori> note that I did beat the mission on Insane this way :P
21:02 <@HerraTohtori> I don't remember if I spooked the wingmen then or not
21:02 <@Fury`> Wanderer: we are really sorry we always bug you about various things
21:03  * Fury` gives Wanderer a teddy bear hug
21:03 <@HerraTohtori> Fury`: considering your history regarding bears of specific kind, I'd say that's disturbing rather than consolation
21:03 <@Fury`> ... :D
21:03 <@Fury`> http://staff.hard-light.net/fury/bear.jpg
21:04 <@Battuta|test> k, change is in place
21:04 <@Battuta|test> let me test before commit
21:04 <@Battuta|test> also, is there a no-collide SEXP? I'll check
21:05 <@Fury`> there is non-collide-invisible
21:05 <@The_E> Which doesn't count
21:05 <@Fury`> dunno if it actually makes the object invisible
21:05 <@The_E> No, it means you can't collide with invisible textures
21:06 <@The_E> Err, polygons textured with invisible textures
21:06 <@Battuta|test> we need to do some processing on the Mei Ling and Eriana lines in that mission
21:06 <@Battuta|test> Darius should give them some Vishnan whispers
21:06 <@HerraTohtori> agreed
21:06 <@HerraTohtori> they don't sound psychic
21:07 <@Fury`> Battuta|test: if you feel like fredding AoA, there's some feedback posted in the forum
21:07 <@Fury`> I'll play more missions tomorrow
21:07 <@Battuta|test> hurm...major changes/
21:08 <@Battuta|test> where are they posted?
21:08 <@Fury`> http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67766.msg1343117#msg1343117
21:08 <@Fury`> beta test topic obviously
21:10 <@HerraTohtori> another thing regarding Finding Sanctuary
21:10 <@HerraTohtori> how much is the AWACS range supposed to be?
21:10 <@HerraTohtori> I'm asking this because the second wing of Nahemas launches their bombs beyond the sensor range
21:11 <@HerraTohtori> you can only see them as flashing blips at first
21:11 <@Battuta|test> I dunno
21:11 <@Battuta|test> Fury`: I'll make some of these changes, but others (like AI classes) I'm not going to do
21:11 <@Battuta|test> it's too late for major balance changes and they'd require another full test playthrough
21:13  * HerraTohtori twitches
21:13 <@HerraTohtori> Frankenstein's Monsters at least requires it
21:13 <@HerraTohtori> as does, IMO, Dragon Awakes
21:13 <@The_E> Whenever HerraTohtori twitches, a wingman dies
21:13 <@HerraTohtori> oh come on! :D
21:14 <@HerraTohtori> isn't it good that someone in the testing department does weird **** :D
21:14 <@The_E> Not if he doesn't tell us about it
21:14 <@HerraTohtori> well I can't know all obscure difficulties that the AI has following waypoints
21:15 <@Battuta|test> Frankenstein's Monsters already has updated AI wingman classes
21:15 <@HerraTohtori> Battuta|test: ok
21:15 <@Battuta|test> General for Iwakura, Colonel for Tell
21:15 <@Fury`> I really doubt you're going to have any adverse effects for upgrading guardianed named wingmen AI classes
21:16 <@Fury`> they really should be generals, without 3612 mod the difference between AI classes is not that high
21:16 <@Battuta|test> yes, but I'm just not willing to risk it, I think mission balance is good as is
21:16 <@Battuta|test> maybe on The Dragon Awakes
21:16 <@Battuta|test> but not for Nehru!
21:16 <@Fury`> he's not guardianed, so I don't care for him
21:17 <@Battuta|test> also, no way to allow weapon loadout customization but not ship loadout, I think
21:17 <@Battuta|test> unless...I made it a non-scramble, but only allowed four Auroras
21:18 <@The_E> That would be the only way
21:18 <@Fury`> Yes, just limit the ships to four auroras
21:19 <@HerraTohtori> also, the scream is hilarious
21:19 <@HerraTohtori> now you notice when he passes beyond the veil
21:21 <@Battuta|test> AAAaaaaa
21:24 <@HerraTohtori> <static>
21:27 -!- Snail [[email protected]] has joined #bp
21:29 <@Battuta|test> k, update SVN
21:31 <@Fury`> Battuta|test: what of the tempests?
21:31 <@Battuta|test> I added more on Forced Entry and, uh, somewhere else
21:31 <@Battuta|test> where do you want them?
21:32 <@Battuta|test> Dragon Awakes now has 1500
21:32 <@The_E> When there's a possibility of Ares in the loadout, make that 3000
21:32 <@Battuta|test> I'll check UT
21:33 <@The_E> Not enough Temps is a real problem in Multi
21:34 -!- Snail is now known as Snail_AFK
21:34 <@Fury`> Battuta|test: Well, I really would like to have enough tempests for one wing whenever they are available. One bank can usually hold about 500
               tempests, so at least 2000, preferably 2500.
21:34 <@Battuta|test> hurgh!
21:34 <@Battuta|test> I forgot that wingmen can use tempests now
21:35 <@Battuta|test> can someone else do it? I need a destress break
21:35 <@The_E> Eh?
21:35 <@Battuta|test> wingmen can't use tempests in retail
21:35 <@Battuta|test> or, at least, they suck
21:35 <@The_E> Right
21:35 <@The_E> I'll increase the Tempest allowance then
21:36 <@HerraTohtori> ok, Finding Sanctuary is now doable on Insane
21:36 <@HerraTohtori> I mean consistently
21:36 <@Fury`> HerraTohtori: well ain
21:36 <@Fury`> t we glad
21:36 <@Fury`> no more spooking your buddies
21:36 <@Battuta|test> all you had to do was stop shooting at your wingmates!


...or, as General Battuta aptly named it, "The legendary Herra Tohtori Recreational Fratricide Memorial Bug".

 :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 22, 2010, 06:50:31 pm
:lol::yes:
 
By the way you guys are going to get me fired as I need to get up at half five and it's now ten to one.
 
I got decided to speedrun though BP roundabout half nine. I finished five minutes ago and my tired just caught up with me.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 22, 2010, 07:12:10 pm
Quote
20:54 <@HerraTohtori> Iwakura and Tell are easily distracted from their navigational tasks
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> if the player, say, shoots past them to pass the time or just to spook them
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> they evade
20:55 <@HerraTohtori> and they never get back on track
After reading a few lines I just Knew this was the cause. I noticed this a.i. behavior myself a while back testing a mission with waypoints.
Interesting read btw
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 22, 2010, 08:44:13 pm
I've played about halfway through (homework is preventing me from doing more at the moment), but so far I am very impressed.

Can't wait to see the rest!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Aurora Paradox on February 22, 2010, 08:57:16 pm
I've run into a small problem.  I have downloaded the mediavps patch.  I cleared out all the old BP files before I tossed in the new ones.  I am using the latest inferno build.  However when I click continue and loading bar finishes filling.  Its tells me that FreeSpace 2 has encountered a problem and needs to close.  I am running Windows 7 64-bit.

What follows is the debug build info:

Rotation without rotation axis defined on submodel 'detail-2' of model 'science01.pof'!
ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
kernel32.dll! BaseThreadInitThunk + 18 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 99 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 54 bytes



Any thoughts?

EDIT: I have attached the log from the crash.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 22, 2010, 09:16:34 pm
This issue has been dealt with on IRC.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 09:57:46 pm
Hrm. What was the solution?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 22, 2010, 10:01:21 pm
Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned that. Using 3.6.10 Inferno seems to work as a workaround; the error/warning behind this however is something FSU has to deal with.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Cobra on February 22, 2010, 10:45:44 pm
Herf. I want a list of the actors. The dude who did Admiral Bei sounds like Michael Dorn and Commander/Captain Bei sounds like the Prince from Sands of Time.

Issues with the personas though. Corey goes through gender changes whenever he calls for a support ship and I think for another message or two; don't remember now. Still, frikking awesome to have voice acting for this thing.

I also want to mention that I don't seem to have impact effects for beams and the new ones seem kind of transparent and weak-looking when they're close to a capship. Not sure if I've screwed up my install somehow or what but I didn't see this until I installed the new version.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 22, 2010, 11:11:50 pm
"Rotation without rotation axis defined on submodel" is a mediavps pof data error in several of it's pofs. Such errors only pop up with .11 or .12 debug. However, even if you get such an error, it does not prevent you from continuing, simply click "No" in the dialog box. To do this, you likely have to use windowed mode. This is not an issue if you use normal .11 or .12 build. Hence, there is no need to use old .10 builds.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 22, 2010, 11:34:41 pm
the new ones seem kind of transparent and weak-looking when they're close to a capship

What you're seeing is a beam fade effect that Fury implemented. I hate it - at least at its current settings - but I have not yet been able to talk him out of it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 23, 2010, 12:21:20 am
I'm on the way to work. . . . Late. And all I can hear is 'by your edict!' 'we destroy, to PRESERVE.'
 Tired.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 23, 2010, 12:59:19 am
Yay, completed the entire mod without cheating on Very Easy. :D

Keepers Of Hell ended up being pretty easy.

Spoiler:
All I needed was a Preacher. I sent everyone else to guard the Keeper while I flew all over the place shooting down beam cannons and getting dogged relentlessly by Shivan fighters. The Keeper made it out with 42% hull.

The one thing that I did have problems with was the Lucifer. It took me three tries to pass that mission.

Spoiler:
The Orestes said that I can either destroy the reactors or go for the engines. On my first attempt, I went after the main beam cannons, and the Lucifer jumped out on me. On my second attempt, I went after the engines to keep it from jumping out, but they were so oddly-placed and so durable that I couldn't even destroy one. On my third attempt, I did a quick scan of the Lucifer's reactors and saw that only three were operational. Since I had three wings, I ordered them to attack one reactor each. Alpha wing took care of Reactor 1 with no problems. Beta wing died completely attempting to eradicate Reactor 2, but they managed to get it down to 5%, and it was subsequently destroyed by one of my wingmen. Gamma wing, which comprised of three Preacher fighters, took out Reactor 5 on their own, which completely surprised me, since they had no bombs.

I was completely uncertain that my third attempt would succeed. When Reactor 2 was about to blow, I saw the hull integrity of the Lucifer and prayed very hard that Gamma had done their job. It was a pleasant shock to learn that they did.

The Lucifer jumps out once its hull reaches 11%. When the final reactor was blown, it had 19% hull, and the Orestes' battlegroup was so ready to reduce its hull by another 8%, which would definitely have prompted it to warp out.

Universal Truth ended up becoming almost as much of a pain as Forced Entry.

Spoiler:
It was so bad that I actually had to send Alpha wing to protect the Fortune, which speaks volumes since I've never ever had to assign a wing to protect a GTL Anemoi. The Orestes and Temeraire jumped out with their hull integrity at 43 and 47 percent. The Fortune made it out with 40% hull. None of the ships made it out with 100% hull; the closest to this was the Solace, which had 99%.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 01:57:11 am
The one thing that I did have problems with was the Lucifer. It took me three tries to pass that mission.
Spoiler:
The Orestes said that I can either destroy the reactors or just pummel it to dust. On my first attempt, I went after the main beam cannons, and the Lucifer jumped out on me. On my second attempt, I went after the engines to keep it from jumping out, but they were so oddly-placed and so durable that I couldn't even destroy one. On my third attempt, I did a quick scan of the Lucifer's reactors and saw that only three were operational. Since I had three wings, I ordered them to attack one reactor each. Alpha wing took care of the first reactor with no problems. Beta wing died completely attempting to eradicate the second reactor, but they managed to get it down to 5%, and it was subsequently destroyed by one of my wingmen. Gamma wing, which comprised of three Preacher fighters, took out Reactor 5 on their own, which completely surprised me, since they had no bombs.
Spoiler:
the orestes actually says either kill the reactors or the engines.  my first playthrough, i tried for the engines, because i wanted to THEN pummel it to dust, but i quickly realized that wasn't happening.  the engines are rediculously strong, even a full bombload wouldn't take both down.  so reactors it is.  you actually only need to destroy 2 of them, numbers 2 and 4 IIRC.  the orestes and company will destroy the other live one (#3?) in the second or third beam volley.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 02:03:07 am
The Lucifer doesn't start out with any reactors destroyed, mind. But the Vishnan strike force targets its beam fire well.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 02:11:42 am
The Lucifer doesn't start out with any reactors destroyed, mind. But the Vishnan strike force targets its beam fire well.
really?  :wtf:  2 of them were down by the time i targeted it. 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 02:16:16 am
As I said, the Vishnans are very good. You can see the Arbiters opening fire immediately.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ShadowGorrath on February 23, 2010, 07:21:40 am
Am I the only one who preferred the previous mainhall?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Vidmaster on February 23, 2010, 07:57:23 am
still have not beaten the Lucifer mission. (Playing on medium)

It's pretty much impossible to destroy the mentioned systems (both using bombers or fighters only, as well as using a mix of both)
because you will make more damage to the Lucifer, not to mention your allies.
As soon as it's at 11%, it's out. Tried going after engines, after the reactors, tried it 10 times now. Problematic design decision here.


Oh and yes, two reactors are down at the start of the mission. It's still not enough.




by the way, Forced Entry was awesome.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 23, 2010, 08:27:25 am
As I said, the Vishnans are very good. You can see the Arbiters opening fire immediately.

Well, that explains why I only had to kill three of them. Still quite a task, though. :nervous:

Stability-wise, BP had almost no problems running on 3.6.12 RC1 Inferno. There is only one small problem, which I believe I've told Herra already.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on February 23, 2010, 09:44:58 am
Are there going to be any specific updates to AoA when 3.6.12 final is released?

...In all honesty, I'll be tempted to hold out just a little longer for this if that's the case.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Cobra on February 23, 2010, 09:47:43 am
Feature creeper. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 23, 2010, 09:54:24 am
Are there going to be any specific updates to AoA when 3.6.12 final is released?

...In all honesty, I'll be tempted to hold out just a little longer for this if that's the case.

No, there probably won't be updates beyond of what Fury has already published (in the Black Market thread).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 23, 2010, 09:59:57 am
I assume there will be AoA update in about 4 weeks to fix any bugs found. Possibly earlier update to the 3.6.12 Feature Pack to fix several issues and re-do weapon rebalance part which didn't quite work out as planned due to lack of proper pre-release feedback. Any new features will be added to Black Market topic, but they will never be part of official downloads.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on February 23, 2010, 10:02:02 am
Awww...

 :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 10:03:20 am
still have not beaten the Lucifer mission. (Playing on medium)

It's pretty much impossible to destroy the mentioned systems (both using bombers or fighters only, as well as using a mix of both)
because you will make more damage to the Lucifer, not to mention your allies.
As soon as it's at 11%, it's out. Tried going after engines, after the reactors, tried it 10 times now. Problematic design decision here.


Oh and yes, two reactors are down at the start of the mission. It's still not enough.

That mission was heavily tested. It's definitely possible, and far from 'pretty much impossible'. Adjust your tactics.

Forget the engines. Go for the reactors.

Awww...

 :(

Exactly what are you looking for? You have a massive 3.6.12 feature pack at your disposal that does everything you want.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 23, 2010, 11:00:42 am
It's pretty much impossible to destroy the mentioned systems (both using bombers or fighters only, as well as using a mix of both)
because you will make more damage to the Lucifer, not to mention your allies.
As soon as it's at 11%, it's out. Tried going after engines, after the reactors, tried it 10 times now. Problematic design decision here.

Oh and yes, two reactors are down at the start of the mission. It's still not enough.

Spoiler:
Try giving Preachers (the one with ten guns) to Beta and Gamma wing. Beta tends to go down very fast if you give them the medium bomber.

When I did my third and first successful attempt at this mission, Gamma took down a single reactor on their own. Beta, on the other hand, died VERY BADLY flying bombers.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Grizzly on February 23, 2010, 11:10:27 am
Am I the only one who preferred the previous mainhall?

No.

By the way, I have not been able to start the first mission of BP, because for some reason, it either has a very long loading time, or it has crashed completely (impossible to determine).

Since I am rather new to FS open bugs, someone got to hand-walk me trough this...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 23, 2010, 11:12:46 am
I have not been able to start the first mission of BP, because for some reason, it either has a very long loading time, or it has crashed completely (impossible to determine).

Since I am rather new to FS open bugs, someone got to hand-walk me trough this...
Your fs2_open.log (as described here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56279.msg1180359#msg1180359)) and system specs couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Lucika on February 23, 2010, 11:20:28 am
Is it normal if all the Shivans are grey?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 12:00:53 pm
Do you have glowmaps turned off?

Whatever the problem is, it has nothing to do with BP, since BP does not alter those assets.

Am I the only one who preferred the previous mainhall?

The previous mainhall was a screenshot from a Supreme Commander cinematic. We could definitely do better than that.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Vidmaster on February 23, 2010, 12:05:03 pm
When I did my third and first successful attempt at this mission, Gamma took down a single reactor on their own. Beta, on the other hand, died VERY BADLY flying bombers.

nah, does not work. I don't have a problem keeping my people alive or something, it's mathematically impossible. However, I have a brilliant solution in mind for tomorrow: Switch to Easy for this mission, since that gives you a huge bonus on subsystem damage  :lol:

Honestly, this is a balancing problem. Give the Lucy more hitpoints!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 12:12:18 pm
When I did my third and first successful attempt at this mission, Gamma took down a single reactor on their own. Beta, on the other hand, died VERY BADLY flying bombers.

nah, does not work. I don't have a problem keeping my people alive or something, it's mathematically impossible. However, I have a brilliant solution in mind for tomorrow: Switch to Easy for this mission, since that gives you a huge bonus on subsystem damage  :lol:

Honestly, this is a balancing problem. Give the Lucy more hitpoints!

It's not a balancing problem. The mission is fine - multiple testers verified this on multiple difficulties. Try using one wing to engage hostile fighters while Alpha and Beta wings go for reactors.

Are you using the 3.6.12 mod?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Javito1986 on February 23, 2010, 12:44:42 pm
I just did that mission on hard diff. It's really not that bad, only took like 3 minutes. Not to rub it in but for me it seemed too easy, I only had to destroy 2 reactors and they both went pretty fast.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade on February 23, 2010, 01:01:45 pm
Now i had every problems with "A Time of Heroes"
I never N E V E R !!!!  able to destroy 1 single **** damn beam from this **** **** sarthanas before this damn thing kill the Orestes.
This was the only one Mission where i must CHEAT "^k"

I already have problems disarming Sarthanas Beams also in the FS2 Main Campaign. I hate all Missions they say destroy S. Main Beam Cannons.

How can i beat this Mission without cheating?

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 01:08:43 pm
Use your afterburners to get to the Sathanas as soon as it jumps in (boost your engine power if need be.) Fly a Boanerges. Take out the top right beam (from your perspective) first. Use 'v' to target turrets under your reticle.

It's actually pretty easy. Trust your wingmen to damage - maybe even destroy - the other beams.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: VPR on February 23, 2010, 01:09:47 pm
Calm down. Are you using Helios warheads, not the default Cyclops torpedoes? It's pretty simple with Helios, use dual fire and cycle between banks as you hit each beam to avoid the reload delay and you should do it in good time.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ShadowGorrath on February 23, 2010, 01:10:38 pm
Am I the only one who preferred the previous mainhall?

The previous mainhall was a screenshot from a Supreme Commander cinematic. We could definitely do better than that.

But, in my opinion, it fit the mood and mod better. And was just plain better than having some random nebula scene, not even remotely fitting for the mod- at least the previous mainhall appeared as the bridge of the Temeraire. Oh well...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 01:16:06 pm
The current background images were actually selected to fit the mood and the story. The Supreme Commander screenshot was a comparatively bad idea simply because it was from Supreme Commander. It'd be like using a picture of the bridge of the Enterprise: you know that it's not Blue Planet, and it's jarring.

You're free to disagree, of course.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Javito1986 on February 23, 2010, 02:04:04 pm
Time of Heroes depends on which beam you take first. Prioritize the two beams at 85% hull, one of them is always the one that fires first. The objective says to prioritize the upper port beam but I always get turned around and lose track of which one that is.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Locutus of Borg on February 23, 2010, 02:52:59 pm
I originally disliked this mod for its bugginess and lack of voice acting.

I now rescind everything I said.

I have only played through a few missions, but I am absolutely loving it so far. I love the voice work and the looming sense of suspense.

My only question is:
Is there supposed to be music in the background? I downloaded all of the .7zip files, but I'm not hearing any music. 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 23, 2010, 02:57:05 pm
Is there supposed to be music in the background?
Very much, yes.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on February 23, 2010, 02:57:48 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Blue Planet series is the closet thing we're ever getting to Freespace 3. That's just my opinion, but there it is.

The director's cut is amazing, you all should be extremely proud. I've played commerical games that aren't as good as this. Even old stand bys like Forced Entry managed to be even more epic than I remembered. At a few points I was so immersed in the battles I thought I was playing a movie. Diving through clouds of missiles, flack, and surrounded by friendly and enemy ships tearing each other to bits. Other than a few minor bugs like the sound restart issue, I haven't had any problems at all.

If I had to wait ten years for War in Heaven and beyond, it'd be worth it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Leeko on February 23, 2010, 02:59:59 pm
Much praise to the BP team and the voice actors! It was a fresh experience playing it with voice acting, kind of like playing it for the first time again. Overall the cutscenes were less boring, and Forced Entry seemed less brutal. I was able to do it in two tries on medium this time :p The only one I had trouble with was the 2nd to last mission (thank goodness for the skip cutscene button!). I would always wander away from the Orestes chasing something to find it at 20% hull integrity with a full wing of seraphims stationary in one of its blind spots, blasting away at it. The only off-putting elements to the voice acting were...
Spoiler:
the transport in the flashback cutscene (ZOMG GAIZ SHUH-VAWNS... drama breaker)
and having to ignore the fact that the Bei family accents didn't quite sound like they were from Guangzhou... which was more than made up for by the performances, and I'm just nitpicking. :lol:
 :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade on February 23, 2010, 03:30:15 pm
Yeah the Voice Acting is so great !!!
Now i can play and must not read all in the Upper Screen.

And i must say: The VA from BP is a lot better as for example: the Main Campaign FS2.

@Time of Heroes
I give it a try tomorrow..i want beat this without cheating.
Thanks a lot for the tipps.

BP iss soo great !!!!  Looking forward for  WIH

Greetings Peter
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Locutus of Borg on February 23, 2010, 03:34:11 pm
Is there supposed to be music in the background?
Very much, yes.

I will re download the audio then, though I will admit the lack of music was kind of creepy.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade on February 23, 2010, 03:55:59 pm
Yarrr the Sarthanas is down !!!
Hints worked yeah....
Thanks a lot !!!

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 23, 2010, 08:04:05 pm
I've finally finished it... Holy crap, you guys are awesome!

Sound effects = improved

Little details here and there = improved

Keepers of Hell = about 5 times easier (this is a good thing)

Wilhelm Scream = hilarious

Vishnan voices =  :eek2:   Amazing! Gave them a much greater presence.

Cannot wait for War In Heaven.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Javito1986 on February 23, 2010, 09:17:05 pm
and having to ignore the fact that the Bei family accents didn't quite sound like they were from Guangzhou... which was more than made up for by the performances, and I'm just nitpicking. :lol:
 :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:



It makes sense though doesn't it? They didn't grow up in Guangzhou, they're a couple of generations removed from the family they have there.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 23, 2010, 09:21:34 pm
Yeah, during the time where the story plays out, noone in the GTVA has been to China (much less Guangzho) in almost 50 years. Accents do tend to shift under such circumstances.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 23, 2010, 09:38:06 pm
For that matter, will you know what Guangzhou accent sounds like in 2157? :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 23, 2010, 09:42:50 pm
This release is great, especially the tech room. :D I can't believe Subach makes BGreens. :P

Some random observations:
Spoiler:
In the nebula when I first met Sanctuary, I was just matching speeds with Tell and Iwakura,not afterburning or anything, and I smacked into the Vishnan fighter, taking my hull down to 96%. That was no hallucination. :P

Hooray for Vishnan bombs!

The f-bomb when Eriana dies seems a little out of place.

The balance change to the Balor made me a bit sad, but I guess I'll be thanking you in WiH. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 09:44:21 pm
Spoiler:
Believe me, you will. And the Balor is actually now fair (and better than the Subach) - before, it was easily better than the Kayser, and clearly more glitched than genuine.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 23, 2010, 09:51:03 pm
Quote
Spoiler:
The balance change to the Balor made me a bit sad, but I guess I'll be thanking you in WiH.

Spoiler:
No. You will not. You will curse the day the Balor was developed. You will wake in your sleep, awoken by the horrifying screams of your wingmen as they die under the relentless streams of silvery plasma the enemy will throw your way. You will come to fear the sound of your shields, as they fail under the onslaught of projectiles hurled at you by a cold, calculating, utterly inhuman enemy that does not know the meaning of mercy. Your hands will tremble at the very thought of facing them again, with their weapons of mass destruction. You will long for the days of safety long lost, when all you had to deal with were puny Shivan weapons.

In short, the Balor is evil. Very, very evil. Fear it.

Guess I went a bit overboard there  :nervous:.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 10:05:26 pm
so i gather the balor got nerfed from its original version?  i didn't use it much at all the first time around.  i thought it was rather weak when i used it in DC.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 10:07:28 pm
It's better than the Subach by a fair margin.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 23, 2010, 10:10:31 pm
I've got what I think is a pre-3.6.10 Blue Planet .vp where the Balor is about 50% more powerful than a Kayser with half the power drain of a Subach. In the 3.6.10 edition the damage got nerfed, and now the power consumption is tripled multiplied by six.

BTW, why did you change the spelling to "Kaiser"? :confused:

Also too bad there's no tech description for Green Beams. I always wondered what they were. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 10:20:03 pm
Yeah, wasn't that Balor nuts?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 10:24:30 pm
i must not have ever used that one, because i think i would have noticed immediately that it was stronger than the kayser.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 23, 2010, 10:25:38 pm
Also too bad there's no tech description for Green Beams. I always wondered what they were. :P

Oh, yes, there is. Forge Eagle, Forge Dove and Crypt Hammer are what you are looking for.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 23, 2010, 10:31:56 pm
Sorry I wasn't specific. I read those, but I'm looking for this (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Green_Beam).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 10:33:20 pm
I couldn't figure out what it was.  :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 23, 2010, 10:36:54 pm
Is that beam even used anywhere? (Wiki says no about that, BTW)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 23, 2010, 10:37:51 pm
I couldn't figure out what it was.  :nervous:

It's something between the LTerSlash and TerSlash.  Not mounted on anything by default, but used on cruisers and corvettes in a couple of missions.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2010, 10:39:52 pm
Yeah, that was what I figured, in which case it's simply an overloaded or underloaded version of another beam.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 23, 2010, 10:47:24 pm
I couldn't figure out what it was.  :nervous:
You wrote all those tech descriptions? If so, excellent job! :yes:

(BTW the SVas is called both "121b" and "221b." :nervous:)

Holmes Cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/221b) lol.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 11:17:48 pm
I couldn't figure out what it was.  :nervous:

It's something between the LTerSlash and TerSlash.  Not mounted on anything by default, but used on cruisers and corvettes in a couple of missions.

is it the one that has the ungodly huge arc path?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 23, 2010, 11:21:55 pm
I couldn't figure out what it was.  :nervous:

It's something between the LTerSlash and TerSlash.  Not mounted on anything by default, but used on cruisers and corvettes in a couple of missions.

is it the one that has the ungodly huge arc path?
I think all slashers have the same arc, which is to pick two corners of the target's model box and slash between them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 23, 2010, 11:55:21 pm
i've seen a beam shoot >100 degree arc.  i can't recall where, but it was retail fs2 and was fairly consistent, across more than one mission too IIRC.  i suppose it could be a bug, but i got the feeling it was intended.  although i don't know WHY you would intend that, unless you're hunting fighters with it.  it did effectively no damage to whatever it was shooting at (moloch was one target i think)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 24, 2010, 03:45:15 am
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 24, 2010, 03:53:52 am
WiH's development speed is determined by how quickly Darius and Battuta can fred missions. Darius is not working on any other project and for Battuta WiH is number 1. In terms of fredding, campaign is about 40% done. Still, that likely means WiH won't be finished until next year.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 24, 2010, 04:29:50 am
Just finished reading the IRC log. When I played through it, I wondered why the weapons got locked in that mission, but didn't dwell on it any further.
I loved the "I'm trying to break the mission here" line :lol:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 24, 2010, 06:21:17 am
I think all slashers have the same arc, which is to pick two corners of the target's model box and slash between them.
Arc and the speed it slashes is not the same for ever beam and can be altered by changing values like lifetime etc.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Leeko on February 24, 2010, 10:29:18 am
Erm,  you credited me for the Demons of the Past transport even though you didn't use my lines. :confused:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Grizzly on February 24, 2010, 03:06:11 pm
So, I get this when using debug:
Assert: image
File: gropenglpostprocessing.cpp
Line: 46

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
kernel32.dll! BaseThreadInitThunk + 18 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 99 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 54 bytes

Debug Log is attached.

Processor AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+
RAM 4,00 GB
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 24, 2010, 03:12:59 pm
Code: [Select]
  -post_process
Do you have the post-processing shaders?

Code: [Select]
  -img2dds
No.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 24, 2010, 03:14:38 pm
Something's wrong with your postprocessing shaders. Have you downloaded them and placed them in the correct locations?

If not, disable -post_process.

This is not a BP-specific error, fortunately.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 24, 2010, 03:15:20 pm
Code: [Select]
 -mipmap
...
  -img2dds

Disable these.

Code: [Select]
Movie Error:  Unable to open 'intro' movie in any supported format.
You are missing the movie pack. You don't need it, but having it would up the awesome.

Code: [Select]
 Compiling special shader ->  post-v.sdr / brightpass-f.sdr ...
Could not open text file 'post-v.sdr'.
Could not open text file 'brightpass-f.sdr'.
Vertex shader failed to compile:
(0) : error C0000: syntax error, unexpected $end at token "<EOF>"
(0) : error C0501: type name expected at token "<null atom>"

Please check if you have installed the post-processing shaders correctly.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Black Wolf on February 24, 2010, 05:26:09 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Blue Planet series is the closet thing we're ever getting to Freespace 3. That's just my opinion, but there it is.

Disagree, but I see where you're coming from. It's a good campaign, but I don't see [V] changing tack and going character based for a third installment this way.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 24, 2010, 05:31:39 pm
That's a point that lots of people spend lots of time arguing about, and frankly, it's sort of a silly debate.

Blue Planet is not meant to be FS3 as V would have made it. It's meant to be Blue Planet, and to tell a story.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Black Wolf on February 24, 2010, 05:47:17 pm
Obviously. But we most likely are going to get a bunch of threads in the not too distant with "Blue Planet is FS3!" being the theme, much like we did when it was "Inferno is FS3!" and "Derelict is FS3!". So I may as well get my response set up right off the bat ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ChronoReverse on February 24, 2010, 06:15:46 pm
The Balor may be statistically better than the Subach but in the Director's Cut I've gone back to using the Prometheus S (although my wingmen all sport the Balor =)

Olympics still draining my time from FS2 and Blue Planet =/
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: swashmebuckle on February 24, 2010, 06:41:47 pm
Congratulations BP team, that was a really tight campaign!  I'll play it through again in the near future to see if I can give some actually useful feedback, but yeah, really every element was well above average for a fan-made project--I'd say it's probably my favorite FS mod so far.

GB- Regarding the comparative quietness of Bei's and some other lines, did you try messing around with a compressor?  I'm not sure about spoken word stuff, but in music you can usually get a pretty noticeable boost without murdering the dynamics by using gentle ratios (like up to 4:1) and adding gain until the noise floor becomes objectionable (hopefully some of that will be masked by the ship's engine noise).  To me, compression kind of pushes the sound forward when it kicks in (not a very scientific description I know) even at relatively low volume.  Even if you don't compress, slapping a limiter on it will prevent any clipping distortion when you boost a signal, unless it was present in the source material.  Anyway, just some thoughts.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 24, 2010, 06:43:05 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 24, 2010, 06:46:57 pm
2 events does not constitute a pattern. 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 24, 2010, 07:07:40 pm
Oh, and the Balor was being developed for INF, but maybe that changed and was never used for any of its releases? Is it any good?

I don't think the Balor was ever being developed for INF.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 24, 2010, 07:21:11 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 24, 2010, 07:25:48 pm
Maybe. However, since most of all that Inferno stuff only exists in the form of screenshots, and not as something actually playable, I'd say that whatever the Balor was before, it is now a BP weapon.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 24, 2010, 07:28:47 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Javito1986 on February 24, 2010, 09:54:45 pm
Figured I'd post this here. Loved the DC to no end, so much so that I filmed some footage from IMO one of the campaign's most dramatic 'action highlights' and put it up on youtube in HD. I think it really shows off all the reasons that make this my favorite Freespace campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs8NHCBaxek if anyone's interested :)  :pimp:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 24, 2010, 09:59:23 pm
Blue Planet is not meant to be FS3 as V would have made it. It's meant to be Blue Planet, and to tell a story.

I agree. Everything about BP, save the fundamental code, is fan-made. It has so many changes and additions from retail code. The VA is fan-made, the skyboxes are fan-made, portions of the code are fan-made, the missions are fan-made, the ships are fan-made, the mainhall interface is fan-made, portions of the database are fan-made, and who knows what else.

I daresay that BP is the embodiment of what happens when an underrated and undersold game gets a huge fan following. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Locutus of Borg on February 24, 2010, 10:38:58 pm
Well, I've finished BPDC, and I have to admit I'm a bit saddened by how it all came together.

Most Freespace campaigns, inlcuding the two game main campaigns don't have a main character. This is because that character is you; the way that character thinks is shaped by the opinions of the player. The use of an actual character in BP as the protagonist was a risk.

The campaign really lost me when Bei started with the metaphysical stuff about his entire life culminating in the encounter with the Vishnans. I played the rest of the campaign through, and I must say the FREDDING and voice acting was superb, but the story just dropped off once the Vishnans showed up.

When the fleet arrived in Sol and attacked the United Earth ship, I felt the campaign lost all believability.

IMO, the story just fell apart, but the FREDDING and voice work were simply amazing.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 24, 2010, 10:44:03 pm
Well, I've finished BPDC, and I have to admit I'm a bit saddened by how it all came together. Most Freespace campaigns, inlcuding the two game main campaigns don't have a main character. This is because that character is you; the way that character thinks is shaped by the opinions of the player. The use of an actual character in BP as the protagonist was a risk. The campaign really lost me when Bei started with the metaphysical stuff about his entire life culminating in the encounter with the Vishnans. I played the rest of the campaign through, and I must say the FREDDING and voice acting was superb, but the story just dropped off once the Vishnans showed up. When the fleet arrived in Sol and attacked the United Earth ship, I felt the campaign lost all believability. IMO, the story just fell apart, but the FREDDING and voice work were simply amazing.
 
Most video games use a speaking protagonist, and players identify with them just fine. If you don't like those games, that's fine. Blue Planet is not plain FreeSpace; it's Blue Planet.

You certainly aren't obliged to like the story, but the plot as presented in-game should be coherent and self-explanatory. It doesn't connect with everybody, but a great deal of effort was put into making it believable, consistent, and rich. Both the Vishnans and the events in the last mission were carefully foreshadowed throughout the campaign; you just need to pay attention.

Have you read the fiction on the Blue Planet website? It's not necessary to understand or enjoy the story, but it might quiet some concerns you have.

In any case, the conceit of the non-speaking protagonist is sort of a contrivance that often does a lot to harm suspension of disbelief. I think a lot more is gained by abandoning it than by adhering to an obsolete narrative fixture, but you're free to disagree.

Blue Planet isn't for everybody, and it might not be for you.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 24, 2010, 11:19:30 pm
I'll be honest, I really don't like the Vishnans.  I don't feel ascended energy beings like them belong in the FS universe.  Even the nemesis of every subspace-using species, the Shivans, are flesh and blood.

Or to sum up everything: I think BP's mysticism does not fit at all with FS.  We have two games and an expansion, and :v: never added any mysticism.  Mysteries, yes, but they never went off the deep end and claimed Terrans and Vasudans were receiving psychic messages from unknown all-powerful psychic beings.  I find the Shivans being one race of three that existed to create and preserve life takes away a lot from the aura of pure evil they had in FS canon.  I wonder if BP3 is going to turn out like B5's Shadow War with the Vishnans and Shivans killing each other over whether or not humanity gets to stay alive with the Terrans and Vasudans trapped in the middle of these dueling ancients.

EDIT: Let me clarify.  I think BP tells a great, riveting story.  I simply don't think it meshes with the existing FS background very well.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 24, 2010, 11:26:21 pm
Well I don't think it was ever supposed to conform to the existing FS universe in that sense...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 24, 2010, 11:36:41 pm
I'll be honest, I really don't like the Vishnans.  I don't feel ascended energy beings like them belong in the FS universe.  Even the nemesis of every subspace-using species, the Shivans, are flesh and blood.

Or to sum up everything: I think BP's mysticism does not fit at all with FS.  We have two games and an expansion, and :v: never added any mysticism.  Mysteries, yes, but they never went off the deep end and claimed Terrans and Vasudans were receiving psychic messages from unknown all-powerful psychic beings.  I find the Shivans being one race of three that existed to create and preserve life takes away a lot from the aura of pure evil they had in FS canon.  I wonder if BP3 is going to turn out like B5's Shadow War with the Vishnans and Shivans killing each other over whether or not humanity gets to stay alive with the Terrans and Vasudans trapped in the middle of these dueling ancients.

EDIT: Let me clarify.  I think BP tells a great, riveting story.  I simply don't think it meshes with the existing FS background very well.

We have an explanation for the Vishnans and Shivans that is rooted in the very, very first elements of canon that most FreeSpace players ever saw.

There are no all-powerful psychic beings.

The only information you have on the Vishnans is what you got from Samuel Bei, which was fed to him by the Vishnans directly. You shouldn't assume that anything is as simple as 'destroy life' vs. 'preserve life.'

FreeSpace has always been quite mystical. If you think the Shivans were ever portrayed as pure evil, though, you're not paying attention.

The BP team actually spends a lot of time with hard SF. Don't confuse mystery with far-out mysticism.

Lastly, this is Blue Planet. This is not FS3.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on February 24, 2010, 11:38:15 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Zex Marquise on February 25, 2010, 12:06:01 am
I'll be honest, I really don't like the Vishnans.  I don't feel ascended energy beings like them belong in the FS universe.  Even the nemesis of every subspace-using species, the Shivans, are flesh and blood.

Or to sum up everything: I think BP's mysticism does not fit at all with FS.  We have two games and an expansion, and :v: never added any mysticism.  Mysteries, yes, but they never went off the deep end and claimed Terrans and Vasudans were receiving psychic messages from unknown all-powerful psychic beings.  I find the Shivans being one race of three that existed to create and preserve life takes away a lot from the aura of pure evil they had in FS canon.  I wonder if BP3 is going to turn out like B5's Shadow War with the Vishnans and Shivans killing each other over whether or not humanity gets to stay alive with the Terrans and Vasudans trapped in the middle of these dueling ancients.

EDIT: Let me clarify.  I think BP tells a great, riveting story.  I simply don't think it meshes with the existing FS background very well.

On the contrary, I believe that the Shivans have been alluded to as metaphysical janitors since the cutscenes of Freespace 1. Freespace has long been steeped in Hindu mythology. Even the word "Vasuda" is the sanskrit word for Earth. The slaying of Ravana via Helios (Sun god) bombs is a particularly tongue-in-cheek reference, as avatar Rama performed a prayer to the Sun god Aditya in order to gain the strength required to shoot his arrow through the chest of Ravana, killing him.

Perhaps this is just because I enjoyed Xenosaga so much that I have this view, but I think it makes perfect sense within the realm of science-fiction that a metaphysical entity from a higher realm would need some sort of avatar/body/ship to use as a proxy for interaction with the lower realm; a vessel to carry out its will, or an entire race of vessels. Angels and avatars. Xenosaga changed up the formula a bit by proposing that "God needs a starship" rather than a race, and Blue Planet combines both ideas in the Vishnans and Shivans. The Shivans are more material, with actual bodies building their ships, while the Vishnans are pure consciousnesses inhabiting the ships. You could say the Shivans are the lower, more material manifestations of metaphysic beings while the Vishnans are higher.

The Shivans are a collective. They are literally a single organism/being with many separate parts, like a jellyfish or ant colony. The totality of Shiva's collective consciousness could qualify for demi-god in size and willpower.

Shiva is the destroyer deity of the Freespace universe, planned for this role by Intelligent Design, and perhaps even birthed from the flux of Subspace itself. Shiva destroys failed races which have not overcome destructive tendencies to pave the way for future races, much like the God of the Old Testament destroying the world in a flood to give the righteous Noah a chance to reboot humanity. Likewise, Vishnu the Great Preserver and its parts (the Vishnans) destroys to preserve races which already exist.

Shiva and Vishnu are two aspects or faces of the same being in the trinity of Brahmanism, and so their roles are highly similar. Together they restore and uphold balance in all things. In fact, it could be said that it would have been more proper for the Shivans and Vishnans to be a single race, because they literally "destroy to preserve." The only real plot hole in the metaphysics of Blue Planet is that, before the Shivans began to destroy indiscriminately and forgot their sacred purpose (much like the assessor Satan in Christian theos), there was no real reason for a separate race of Vishnans to exist. The Shivans would have simultaneously been Vishnans in action by preserving budding races like Terrans from destruction at the hands of the Ancients.

I quite like having metaphysics in science fiction. After all, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," and any sufficiently advanced entity is indistinguishable from an angel or god. Xenosaga did wonders with Gnostic metaphysics and the new Battlestar Galactica had comparable success with its angels and creator deity that doesn't like to be called "God". I think Blue Planet is right at home among them as one of the better, more ambitious science-fiction tales to date.

Frankly, I think after the Matrix shook things up, any science fiction tale of large scale and hoping to raise the bar of ambitious scope is lacking without at least some metaphysical or mythological reference. The Blue Planet team should get HUEG props for being brave enough to continue the budding tradition.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 25, 2010, 12:12:12 am
Just a technical point - you don't use Helios bombs in Slaying Ravana.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 25, 2010, 12:30:55 am
I thought you killed the Ravana with Cyclops warheads, and didn't get to use the Helios until Bearbaiting.

And in my eyes I always thought the FS universe had those references as just that, references.  The Ancients referred to the Shivans as preservers, simply because they thought the Shivans eliminated any race that started warmongering once it reached the stars, and that could be considered baseless speculation on the part of the Ancients, simply because they probably knew as much about the Shivans as the Terrans and Vasudans do.  And even if I accept the fact that FS2 is based on mysticism, that doesn't mean mysticism is an essential part of the storyline.  You can replace the Shivans with another unknown race hellbent on killing mankind, and the story of FS works almost as well.  My problem with BP is that it shoves it right in the player's face, making such acts an irreplaceable part of the storyline in a way :v: never did.

GB, perhaps I misspoke when I talked about "all-powerful energy beings".  The Vishnans may not be all-powerful, but they do exist on a higher plane of existence.  They had very little knowledge about us Terran ants until Bei merged with the Sacred Keeper.  Bei himself says the Vishnans inhabit our plane of existence in the same way we would inhabit a room.

To sum up, FS1 and FS2 did have some mystic elements, but it always felt grounded in reality, as the circumstances of FS1 and FS2 felt plausible.  BP: AoA takes that plausibility and discards it by creating a universe where mystical, powerful energy beings exist and seek to protect mankind from the Cosmic Destroyers, touching on Humans Are Special territory.  I wouldn't mind the storyline at all if it were standalone, I simply don't think it is a good fit with an established universe that is a more material setting.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on February 25, 2010, 12:35:56 am
One of the reasons I call Blue Planet a good substitute to FS3 is that so much is explained and continued that began in the first two games.

Literally every explanation about the Vishnans and Shivans we learn in BP ties directly into ideas and concepts in the first two freespace games.

Bosch, Lt. Ash, and Alpha 1 from FS1 all had mystical musings on the Shivans and the order of the universe to different extents.

The concept of alternate universes was brought up by Petrarch at the end of FS2.

Hints that the GTVA was led by jerks was well apparent in FS2 as well. Perfectly content to let Bosch escape if his ETAK technology could pay off down the road.

Don't think Vorlon/Shadow. The Vishnans are doing their job just fine, *they're* not corrupt. The Shivans are pursuing their own goals at the expense of the galactic order of things.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 12:38:19 am
 My problem with BP is that it shoves it right in the player's face, making such acts an irreplaceable part of the storyline in a way :v: never did.

GB, perhaps I misspoke when I talked about "all-powerful energy beings".  The Vishnans may not be all-powerful, but they do exist on a higher plane of existence.  They had very little knowledge about us Terran ants until Bei merged with the Sacred Keeper.  Bei himself says the Vishnans inhabit our plane of existence in the same way we would inhabit a room.

To sum up, FS1 and FS2 did have some mystic elements, but it always felt grounded in reality, as the circumstances of FS1 and FS2 felt plausible.  BP: AoA takes that plausibility and discards it by creating a universe where mystical, powerful energy beings exist and seek to protect mankind from the Cosmic Destroyers, touching on Humans Are Special territory.  I wouldn't mind the storyline at all if it were standalone, I simply don't think it is a good fit with an established universe that is a more material setting.

Yeah, no. Again, you're assuming that just because something is a mystery, it's going to be explained my mysticism.

Stop confusing what you don't yet understand with things that can't be understood. It's perfectly possible to explain everything in Blue Planet in a strictly material way, as you should know if you've read the Project Nagari dossier on the website.

And yeah, manwiththemachinegun and Zex Marquise are very perceptive. A lot of the people who claim that BP introduced crazy new stuff to the FS canon miss the fact that everything in BP was either mentioned directly in FS1 or FS2, or mandated by :V: in their plan for FS3 (there had to be a 'bigger problem' the Shivans were a symptom of.)

And yet bear in mind that BP is not FS3. It's BP. It is not beholden to be 'FreeSpacey'. Criticizing it on those grounds is like criticizing Transcend for 'not being FreeSpacey'. It's silly.

BP is BP's take on the FSverse.

And for god's sake, SpardaSon21, would you please read what is posted. There are no mystical powerful energy beings. To call them 'energy beings' would be, as BP says, to utterly miss the point: and yet the point is not yet fully understood.

If you think the Vishnans are as simple as 'protect humans' you are not doing much thinking about them or their motives. If you think you understand them enough to explain them in such simple terms you're very silly. Furthermore the 'Humans Are Special' critique is exactly the opposite of what happens. Humans are explicitly not special in BP. What is special is the Terran-Vasudan alliance.

Never mind that you've completely ignored what I said: all the information we have on the Vishnans comes from the Vishnans themselves, via Sam.

Go hunting in AoA for some easter eggs. You might be surprised by what you find.

I'll say it twice though I shouldn't have had to say it at all: we read hard SF, stuff like Alastair Reynolds that makes FreeSpace look like a comedy. We are well aware of the 'hard' aspects of the FSverse. If anything, we're looking to make them a little harder.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 25, 2010, 04:20:15 am
i agree that BP felt rather mystical.  sorry for calling it that after you saying that was missing the point.  i understand what you mean and agree, but i just can't think of a better word to describe it.  but i loved it for this.  we've got enough campaigns that are a string of "the shivans have returned, all batteries open fire" missions.  BP entered risky territory with the main character development, but pulled it off very well. 

i'll admit, on first playthrough when the story went for the "alternate universe" approach, i groaned, because that motif seems rather cliche, and is too often used as a cheap, quick and dirty "explanation" for weird plot elements in a poorly cohesive story.  BP didn't turn out like this, so  :yes: on believablility there.  the only part i had trouble with as far as believablility was the attack on earth in the original version.  i could see NO reason for this at all, and sat there in my fighter thinking "wtf, where did this come from?"  then DC added the extra info about command's motivations, VERY good improvement.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 25, 2010, 05:08:36 am
And yet bear in mind that BP is not FS3. It's BP. It is not beholden to be 'FreeSpacey'. Criticizing it on those grounds is like criticizing Transcend for 'not being FreeSpacey'. It's silly.

I should point out that by designating itself a continuation of the FreeSpace story, BP does immediately take on a requirement to be recognizeable, preferably immediately recognizeable, as FreeSpace.

Which, frankly, it is, so he's still quite wrong.


Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 25, 2010, 08:00:19 am
Quote from: 25 February 2010 Thursday, 2149 hrs SGT, #hard-light
[21:49]   <Fury`>   grah
[21:49]   <Fury`>   why those aren't reported in the forums
[21:50]   <Fury`>   it pisses me off when bugs are found in some random wiki entries

Fury was griping about this bug I came across when I played the DC on 3.6.12 RC1 INF:

(http://ypkp5g.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pRgOn7ViCeqW7bF3Xh9RRctJTjMd623lRNIecUTio6zDZQRA6YX36TMcI4O2AmTuEdDXwp8UX0cSdu3gWBAgyWO1HdeJxbgjc/BPAoADC_001.png)

Consult the comms list in that image. Apparently, you are not supposed to have command authority over the warships in the fleet.

Spoiler:
I thought it was a feature of being promoted to Captain!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 25, 2010, 08:47:31 am
The Balor may be statistically better than the Subach but in the Director's Cut I've gone back to using the Prometheus S (although my wingmen all sport the Balor =)
I just realized that according to the numbers, the Prometheus S almost totally eclipses the Balor. All the Balor has are ROF and a tiny bit more subsystem damage. :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 25, 2010, 08:49:46 am
That's perfectly normal. The Balor is meant to complement the Subach, not the Prometheus S.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 25, 2010, 08:52:02 am
It does okay there, but at least the Subach gets double the efficiency for its lack of punch. The Balor is slightly less efficient than the Prometheus.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on February 25, 2010, 08:54:13 am
Andro:

Spoiler:
In the Navy, the Officer in Command of the Vessel (as opposed to the Rear Admiral or whoever onboard) is usually a Captain, and retains control of the ship, if I remember correctly. If Bei is a Captain, he wouldn't necessarily outrank the CO's of the ships in the Battle Group, thus it doesn't really make a lot of sense to have the entire Battle Group at Bei's unquestioned Command.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 25, 2010, 08:58:45 am
What he said. Even given that you are Alpha 1, you are still just a fighter pilot. Ships do have a different chain of command in most cases.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dragon on February 25, 2010, 09:10:57 am
High ROF is usefull for dealing with Shivan fighters such as Dragons or Manticores, which are fast and difficult to hit.
GTVA usus PromS-Balor combo as a standard issue for fighters, just like PromR-Subach before.
Balor is usefull when you need ROF and low energy consumption, PromS if you need a heavy hitter.
As for capship commanding, what can you tell them to do?
It's ussualy possible to open up the menu for all ships in the fleet, but there's no valid command you can give them.
A fighter pilot can try to give a command to a warship, but he will most likely get a funny look from the captain and reprimende from his superior.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 10:02:23 am
Quote from: 25 February 2010 Thursday, 2149 hrs SGT, #hard-light
[21:49]   <Fury`>   grah
[21:49]   <Fury`>   why those aren't reported in the forums
[21:50]   <Fury`>   it pisses me off when bugs are found in some random wiki entries

Fury was griping about this bug I came across when I played the DC on 3.6.12 RC1 INF:

*screenshot*

Consult the comms list in that image. Apparently, you are not supposed to have command authority over the warships in the fleet.

Which mission? I thought I'd fixed all of those, darn it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 25, 2010, 10:09:06 am
M22. Which I thought I fixed, but apparently didn't. It's fixed in SVN now.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on February 25, 2010, 11:12:12 am
Quote
High ROF is usefull for dealing with Shivan fighters such as Dragons or Manticores, which are fast and difficult to hit.
Interesting, cause I very much perfer using weapons with a slower ROF and more punch against those ships. Since they aren't going to be in my sight for long, so getting 1 or 2 shots in will have to count. Spray and pray weapons like the Balor are IMHO better against slower targets where you can bring them down with sustained fire.

BTW: I miss my old super duper overpowered Balor  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 25, 2010, 11:35:19 am
It seems many think Balor is weaker than it actually is. In terms of raw shield DPS, Subach has 52.5, Balor 85 and PromS 85.7. Balor is less than 1 DPS behind Prom S. Hull DPS of Subach is 67.5, Balor 59.5, PromS 77.1. So Balor is only weaker against hull, which is just fine for the role it is intended.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on February 25, 2010, 12:06:48 pm
Does the "cycle" flag alter damage output in any way, or is it basically half the guns of a given bank firing every half fire-wait time?

High ROF is usefull for dealing with Shivan fighters such as Dragons or Manticores, which are fast and difficult to hit.
It would be, but since the shot velocity is 2/3 higher(450 vs 750), the additional accuracy at range makes all the difference. And it's even more of an issue if you're outclassed by your opponent in handling and/or speed.

The Dragon Awakes(especially in an Aurora) and Frankenstein's Monsters are both much easier if you've brought paired Prom-S. TDA due to the fact that you're lucky to get a dogfighting Dragon in your sights for more than a second or two at a time, and FM due to the fact that once the Manticore decides to start running and gets more than a few hundred meters away, that lead indicator quickly starts extending out multiple ship-lengths, and it becomes very difficult to keep it in a solid killing stream, as even a slight change in vector by the Manticore means a significant readjustment.

As it is, I'd call it a Terran answer to the Mekhu HL-7. The only problem with that being Vasudan fighters generally focus on agility, letting them make the most of a high ROF/damage done over time cannon, whereas the only "modern" Terran craft I'd call particularly agile are the Perseus and Kulas.

If it were me, I'd boost the Balor's shot velocity up into the Avenger(500s) range to make its effective engagement range a little longer. Still noticeably less than the Kayser(650), but a cut above the Subach. JMO, though.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on February 25, 2010, 12:10:36 pm
Damage is same with and without cycle. Personally I see no reason to alter Balor's stats.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Locutus of Borg on February 25, 2010, 01:15:13 pm
Well, I've finished BPDC, and I have to admit I'm a bit saddened by how it all came together. Most Freespace campaigns, inlcuding the two game main campaigns don't have a main character. This is because that character is you; the way that character thinks is shaped by the opinions of the player. The use of an actual character in BP as the protagonist was a risk. The campaign really lost me when Bei started with the metaphysical stuff about his entire life culminating in the encounter with the Vishnans. I played the rest of the campaign through, and I must say the FREDDING and voice acting was superb, but the story just dropped off once the Vishnans showed up. When the fleet arrived in Sol and attacked the United Earth ship, I felt the campaign lost all believability. IMO, the story just fell apart, but the FREDDING and voice work were simply amazing.
 
Most video games use a speaking protagonist, and players identify with them just fine. If you don't like those games, that's fine. Blue Planet is not plain FreeSpace; it's Blue Planet.

You certainly aren't obliged to like the story, but the plot as presented in-game should be coherent and self-explanatory. It doesn't connect with everybody, but a great deal of effort was put into making it believable, consistent, and rich. Both the Vishnans and the events in the last mission were carefully foreshadowed throughout the campaign; you just need to pay attention.

Have you read the fiction on the Blue Planet website? It's not necessary to understand or enjoy the story, but it might quiet some concerns you have.

In any case, the conceit of the non-speaking protagonist is sort of a contrivance that often does a lot to harm suspension of disbelief. I think a lot more is gained by abandoning it than by adhering to an obsolete narrative fixture, but you're free to disagree.

Blue Planet isn't for everybody, and it might not be for you.

Thank's for not erupting at me. :)

Let me clarify what I meant. It's not that I don't like games with speaking protagonists, it's just that having one can possibly lead to alienating the player. In other games, like RPGs, there is a lot more room for a narrative. in FreeSpace, all you have are missions, briefings, and in the case of BP, a few in-game renderred cutscenes.

I guess my major gripe is that I felt disconnected from Bei by the end.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 01:16:41 pm
Fair enough. Sam's experiences are pretty profoundly jarring, even to him. He goes through a NDE, after all, which means that the person coming out of the far end of Find Your Way really isn't the same person who went into it. It's not always easy to empathize with.

That said, I do think the addition of voice acting helped make Sam more sympathetic.

And I don't erupt particularly easily, so no worries.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: QuantumDelta on February 25, 2010, 02:03:05 pm
Oh ****. Brainwave.
Mind-of-Alpha1.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Vidmaster on February 25, 2010, 03:22:28 pm
finished it too now. (did play it when it first came out since everybody said it was awesome and it was going to be voice acted  :lol: , yeah I know foolish of me to wait).

It really is something. Despite the ending.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 03:31:14 pm
Did you have any problems with the ending?

If you think it doesn't make sense, you should read the Blue Planet website. Go to 'media', 'prose', read 'The Reunion' and 'Balance of Power'.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on February 25, 2010, 04:42:05 pm
I think it's a safe bet that the Shivans and Vishnans will return at some point to the 'main' Freespace universe given what we learn in the BP prose. Namely, that the Shivans and Vishnans are evaluating the human race and Vasudans, and there was a crap load of menace in that spirit vision of the Vasudan Emperor's court jester.

There's also the fact that GTVA itself was supposed to be a sign that the Terrans and Vasudans had progressed beyond their baser natures. Now that's all falling apart with a new intra-specise war fought on shaky, but somewhat understandable grounds.

The Shivans didn't take their talking-to lightly, and it's not too great a jump to assume with their advance control of subspace they could send a 'message' to their counterparts in the main FS universe.

Mostly I want an excuse to fly the new Earth fighters against some Shivans.  :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Zex Marquise on February 25, 2010, 06:03:52 pm
It has just occurred to me, regarding the Vishnans and Shivans being mystical destroyer/preserver beings, that it is entirely plausible that these races, along with the Brahmans, could have consciously chosen to form the Great Council and assume those delegated responsibilities, much like a space-United Nations. They don't have to be all-mystical or exist divinely according to a mandate from God. They could have chosen to do what they're doing now after becoming sufficiently advanced, so I think people should consider that before complaining about the plausibility of Vishnans existing purely to complement the Shivans.

So yeah...


Oh yeah, seems I was mistaken about slaying Ravana with the Helios. A damn shame Volition didn't make it so for the sake of allegory, but w/e. There's still plenty of hints dropped throughout the storyline of FS regarding the greater cosmology and mythos of the universe, between the Ancients and Bosch monologues.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 06:12:03 pm
Yep. Also worth pointing out that :V: pretty heavily hinted that the Shivans could be an engineered species, whether by themselves or others.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 25, 2010, 06:50:32 pm
Spoiler:
In the Navy, the Officer in Command of the Vessel (as opposed to the Rear Admiral or whoever onboard) is usually a Captain, and retains control of the ship, if I remember correctly. If Bei is a Captain, he wouldn't necessarily outrank the CO's of the ships in the Battle Group, thus it doesn't really make a lot of sense to have the entire Battle Group at Bei's unquestioned Command.

Certainly not the destroyers and corvettes at least. Cruisers depending on crew complement might have a Commander in charge that Bei might in theory outrank.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 25, 2010, 07:23:16 pm
@Fury: If it were only lower damage I wouldn't mention it, but when it's combined with a shorter range and higher power consumption, I don't see ROF being enough to give the Balor a niche beside the Prometheus. I'm not sure how to say this, but I'm not pushing for you to change the stats. I'm just saying that I get uneasy when one weapon is totally eclipsed by another (as the Prometheus R was).

@Locutus: I think I can imagine how you feel. But in my case, I felt like Sam's decisions (and reactions) were ones that I could plausibly have made. So, yeah, BP's approach was definitely risky, but I personally found it was worth it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 25, 2010, 07:41:44 pm
For me, it's not the DPS that matters, it's the damage per single trigger squeeze.

Which for me means that all weapons need to fire at once, or at rate of fire approaching that used in WW2 fighter airplane weaponry (900 rpm for 13mm MG 131 machine gun, 750-850 rpm for Browning .50 machine gun, 750 rpm for 20mm MG 151/20 cannon, 650 rpm for 30mm MK108 cannon...).

The problem with cycle flag is that it means you can't fire all weapons at once. It would only be useful if the rate of fire was high enough that single trigger press would allow it to cycle all the weapons at the time you have a firing solution. This does not happen with the Balor, so it's useless for me. Wingmen gain a lot more use out of it, especially if they are ship-guardianed for storytelling purposes.

As a result, I'll rather have PromS or even Subachs as I can fire snapshots much more efficiently when all guns fire at once, rather than keep the enemy long time at sights during a dogfight so I can hose him with ineffective rounds, no matter how high the technical damage per second value for the weapon is. And that's not because I couldn't do it, and more related to the fact that keeping the enemy at your sights for prolonged periods of time makes you vulnerable to other hostiles targeting you...

That and playing IL-2 Sturmovik kinda makes you proficient at fast deflection shooting and also gets you used to very powerful primary weapons (basically when you hit the enemy, you win the fight in most cases unless you're equipped with machine guns only).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on February 25, 2010, 08:22:36 pm
@Fury: If it were only lower damage I wouldn't mention it, but when it's combined with a shorter range and higher power consumption, I don't see ROF being enough to give the Balor a niche beside the Prometheus. I'm not sure how to say this, but I'm not pushing for you to change the stats. I'm just saying that I get uneasy when one weapon is totally eclipsed by another (as the Prometheus R was).
I only peeked at the new table briefly, but I don't think the power usage changed since BP 3.6.10; IIRC, 0.1 power usage per shot, for 17 base power, .7 hull multiplier, and 1.0 shield multiplier, where as the Subach is .2 energy usage per shot, 15 base power, .9 hull multiplier, and .7 shield multiplier.

The Prom-S actually uses 1 whole energy point per shot, with 30 base power, .9 hull multiplier and 1.0 shield multiplier. The Balor is in fact wonderfully energy efficient, and could arguably replace the Subach entirely; it just doesn't seem to be in the same league of an offensive weapon as the Prom-S and Kayser, which The Balance of Power Part 2 suggests it is:

Quote
...Ironically, the Erinyes heavy fighter – popular among SOC units and heavy fighter squadrons – was not agile enough to stand up to the firepower of UEF gunships, and more than one GTVA ace lost her life in the cockpit of these formerly superior ships.

The GTVA's major advantage was the Balor cannon. Modular, powerful, and intimidating, the Balor became the bread-and-butter weapon of GTVA pilots. The UEF fighter corps grew to fear the Balor intensely. Novice pilots generally lost their life when attacked by Myrmidons or Persei wielding Balors: the oncoming arcs of silver light triggered an instinctive reaction to break and turn away, and the Balor chewed through both shields and UEF armor with ease.
Aces in Erinyes, likely wielding top-tier cannons like the Prom-S/Kayser and Maxim were outmatched by UEF fighters, but Persei and Myrmidons with Balors made the UEF wet their collective pants in fear? Admittedly, I don't know exactly what UEF fighters are like, but as it is, I'm not seeing it.

A 'machine gun' should do more damage per second than a 'sniper rifle', as there's a strong chance that all of the fire is not going to hit, especially when the machine gun's shots travel slower.

And yes, as the above poster mentioned(yay, slow typing), damage-over-time weapons also leave the user vulnerable to others' fire. A slow firing, high-power gun lets you snap off a shot, jink while it recycles, and line up again to fire the next round, whereas a rapid-fire, low-power gun forces you to fly a far more predictable pattern to stay lined up on target.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 08:28:38 pm
When 'Balance of Power' was written I believe the Balor was slightly different, for better or worse.

However, the issue with the aces in the Erinyes getting their asses kicked has more to do with the fact that the Erinyes sucks. And I say that out of our gameplay experience in WiH, not any particular theorycrafting.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 25, 2010, 08:33:34 pm
Yes. Persei are fearsome. Myrmidons are terrifying. The Nyx are nightmare-inducing. Erinyes... not so much.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 25, 2010, 08:42:39 pm
I only peeked at the new table briefly, but I don't think the power usage changed since BP 3.6.10; IIRC, 0.1 power usage per shot, for 17 base power, .7 hull multiplier, and 1.0 shield multiplier, where as the Subach is .2 energy usage per shot, 15 base power, .9 hull multiplier, and .7 shield multiplier.

The Prom-S actually uses 1 whole energy point per shot, with 30 base power, .9 hull multiplier and 1.0 shield multiplier. The Balor is in fact wonderfully energy efficient, and could arguably replace the Subach entirely.
You do remember correctly, but the Balor's energy per shot has since been increased to 0.6.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ChronoReverse on February 25, 2010, 09:23:02 pm
I'm pretty sure I wasn't imagining it; the Original Balor had terrifying damage as well negligible energy usage.  It did damage so quickly that I dropped my favored Prom-S without a second thought.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 25, 2010, 10:17:48 pm
It was better than the Kayser for lower energy use than any other weapon and that was a problem.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 25, 2010, 10:25:59 pm
I'm pretty sure I wasn't imagining it; the Original Balor had terrifying damage as well negligible energy usage.  It did damage so quickly that I dropped my favored Prom-S without a second thought.

I don't think you're supposed to do that. The Balor was meant to be mass-produced in the same manner as the Subach HL-7, and was meant to be distributed in the same manner as the Subach HL-7. The Prometheus S is a mid-high tier weapon, a decent stand-in for the Kayser, which is still considered a prototype in BP.

Even after nerfing the Balor, I still think it is a marginally more effective weapon than the Subach. The only reason why I don't use it that much is because there's always the Maxim, Prometheus and/or Kayser around, and those are still my guns of choice.

The cycle flag on the Balor does not alter damage. However, if you were to mount the Balor on a gun mount with more firing banks, the fire rate of the Balor will be a lot higher, as the gun attempts to fire one shot from each bank within the small window of time it takes to fire two shots. In BP, the ships with the biggest number of firing banks to a gun mount are the Myrmidon (2 and 4) and Erinyes (4 and 4), but think of what will happen if you tried to mount on another ship, such as the Keres (8 and 8) (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTF_Keres), or even the Shai (32) (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/VEB_Shai).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on February 25, 2010, 10:40:24 pm
A cycle weapon will output the same number of shots in a given period of time compared to a non-cycle weapon, regardless of the number of gunpoints.  The difference is, normal weapons fire from all points at the same time whereas cycle weapons stagger the shots.  However, the refire rate for any individual gunpoint will always be the same.  So, all things being equal, a bank of four cycle weapons will do no more damage than a bank of four normal weapons.

Staggering the shots does have its advantages though...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 26, 2010, 05:43:53 am
Would be nice to have something like in X-Wing (or Tachyon, I found her, and many more), were you could switch between staggering and group fire simply by pushing a button.

I think the reason why the Erinyes aces were lost and the Myrmidon and Perseus are feared is, that an ace is just one person. While it doesn't mention so in the prose in FS2 main campaign we usually had very few elite fighters and many standard ones. Myrmidon and Perseus are standard fighters, so there are going to a lot more of them, most likely outnumbering the UEF counterparts.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 26, 2010, 05:48:30 am
all else being equal, the perseus can run circles around the ery, so the ery's rediculous firepower doesn't mean much.  i'd prefer an ery to a myrmidon in a dogfight though.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 26, 2010, 07:29:18 am
I think the reason why the Erinyes aces were lost and the Myrmidon and Perseus are feared is, that an ace is just one person. While it doesn't mention so in the prose in FS2 main campaign we usually had very few elite fighters and many standard ones. Myrmidon and Perseus are standard fighters, so there are going to a lot more of them, most likely outnumbering the UEF counterparts.

The reason why the Eri turned out to be ineffective against the UEF is simply that the UEF has different priorities in fighter construction. The GTVA goes for mission endurance, reliability, and ease of maintenance.
The GTVA routinely deploys its fighters far away from their motherships. They have no qualms about sending a fighter wing through an interstellar node to fulfill an objective, and the pilots are trained to expect it and deal with it.
The UEF, on the other hand, has different priorities. Since they are bound to one system only, and have a large and well-developed infrastructure, their fighter corps is built around ships that are focussed on high performance, sacrificing everything toward combat performance. The average sortie rarely takes more than an hour to complete, and since repair stations are never more than a jump away, maintenance and logistics become incredibly easy.

As a result, the GTVA fighters are simply outperformed by their UEF counterparts, and while the GTVA has an edge in pilot skill levels, the better hardware the UEF can field more than levels the playing field.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 26, 2010, 07:44:35 am
Simplest terms: GTVA fighters are developed to fight Shivan craft. UEF fighters are very much superior to Shivan ships. The goalposts got moved.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on February 26, 2010, 08:09:18 am
As a result, the GTVA fighters are simply outperformed by their UEF counterparts, and while the GTVA has an edge in pilot skill levels, the better hardware the UEF can field more than levels the playing field.

I'd have to disagree with the bolded point. It very much depends on the individual dogfight, and pilot skill, in my opinion. Keep in mind UEF pilots are in a do-or-die, backs against the wall situation, with pilots being thrown into spacecraft, expected to have the "Fighter Pilot Gene" or die. Their ships do excel in some aspects in comparison to their GTVA counterparts, but I daresay years and years of flying the Perseus in combat has taught Gunnery Schools to teach pilots streamed to the Perseus how to exploit the greater energy reserve and engine power in combat.

As opposed to the UEF pulling people out of nowhere to fly fighters, who most likely haven't been through gunnery school (where's the time during a war?), and thus don't know the limits or the 'feel' of the craft their flying. Sure, you have pilots in the UEF who are talented pilots, who've either learned very fast or had time before the war to hone their skills, but my point is, I don't think many of the replacement UEF pilots will, or know how to, take advantage of the superior UEF hardware. Or at least, not fully.

EDIT:
Simplest terms: GTVA fighters are developed to fight Shivan craft. UEF fighters are very much superior to Shivan ships. The goalposts got moved.
What he said.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 26, 2010, 09:34:41 am
The UEF may have pilots with inferiour training to the GTVA, but on the other hand they have the moral highground. You can reason and justify all you want, but for most GTVA pilots there will always be this nagging in the back of their minds asking if it is really the right thing to do.
The UEF pilots on the other hands are protecting their lifes and loved ones from invaders who attacked without provocation (I doubt the UEF citicens know the reason why the GTVA attacked them).

So the UEF will have more pilots willing to go all the way. If a GTVA fighter is heavily damaged, the pilot is will most likely try his best to get out of there alive and screw the mission.
The UEF pilots are much more likely to keep fighting untill they simply can't fight anymore.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 26, 2010, 09:37:14 am
The UEF may have pilots with inferiour training to the GTVA, but on the other hand they have the moral highground. You can reason and justify all you want, but for most GTVA pilots there will always be this nagging in the back of their minds asking if it is really the right thing to do.

Not to mention that UEF pilots are trained to stay near and assist their warships. You might not think that this helps morale a lot, but I honestly do believe that UEF pilots feel safer when they have a warship to count on.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Inglonias on February 26, 2010, 10:51:40 am
As a result, the GTVA fighters are simply outperformed by their UEF counterparts, and while the GTVA has an edge in pilot skill levels, the better hardware the UEF can field more than levels the playing field.

What about anything cruiser-sized or larger? We saw the Temeraire outrange Shivan Beams, surely it can outrange projectile weapons. For that matter, why does the GTVA send fighters if the warships are superior, as they appear to be very easily? (Although the use of TAG missiles could be for that very reason: To allow warships to compensate for inferior fighter designs.)
For that matter, how does the UEF NOT have Prometheus cannons? It was very clear that Earth was the main source of resources until the gas miners could get enough stuff to make more cannons! They should have Prometheus cannons!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 10:57:28 am
GTVA warships significantly outpower their UEF counterparts on a ton-for-ton basis. For this reason, GTVA tactics in Sol tend to be warship-heavy.

Of course, the counter to this is that the UEF maintains large stockpiles of antimatter and a powerful bomber corps. There's a delicate balance of power in the Sol theater, and while it generally favors the GTVA, it does prevent the Tevs from simply steamrolling Earth.

And the UEF has a successor to the Prometheus called the Rapier.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 26, 2010, 11:03:42 am
Rapier, eh? I'd like to try that once WiH comes out...

Is it a blue peashooter, by any chance? :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on February 26, 2010, 11:05:00 am
IIRC the heavy railguns actually out-range beams. And the GTVA's long-range weapons are singly launched torpedoes that won't connect as long as UEF point defenses are up.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 11:06:40 am
Yep.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 26, 2010, 11:07:06 am
Basically, the UEF fleet performs very well against Corvettes and Cruisers. However, Destroyers are a different matter entirely.

The GTVA sends fighters because even with their drawbacks, fighters are still cheaper than Cruisers and Corvettes, as well as more flexible. And if they are properly escorted, they can unleash all kinds of hell.

We saw the Temeraire outrange Shivan Beams, surely it can outrange projectile weapons.

It's not that simple. FS2 ships are very large, very slow moving targets. Shooting at them with ballistic projectiles (which cannot be shot down), accelerated to humongous speeds makes a lot of sense, especially when you don't have beams. Note that we never said that Beams were inferior to mass drivers, in fact, quite the opposite is true. The UEF has the luxury to be able to use technology that the GTVA has deemed as awesome and impractical for their mission profile. In addition, the UEF simply didn't have all the shivan wreckage to reverse engineer beam technology from, not to mention that they just didn't have the need to spend much on military R&D.

IIRC the heavy railguns actually out-range beams. And the GTVA's long-range weapons are singly launched torpedoes that won't connect as long as UEF point defenses are up.

Yes, but in terms of DPS, system reliability and accuracy, Beams come out on top.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on February 26, 2010, 02:36:23 pm
Not all destroyers are as bad as you would think. Just out of curiosity I tried setting a Karuna up against a Hecate. The Hecate took the Karuna down to 70% with a single shot from it's main beam, but that was the only shot it ever got out. Because two seconds later a full torpedo salvo impacted on the front of the Hecate taking out both beam cannons.
The side slasherbeam fared a bit better getting off two shots before being taken out. All in all the Karuna still had 58% hull left after it took down the Hecate.
I only remember the percentages of the last try, but I let that mission run three times, each time the Karuna won easily.

I though something alike would happen with an Orion, but for some reason the Karuna didn't stip away turrets fast enough (and began with the blob turrets), making it a rather short battle.

As far as the torpedos go my money would also be on the Karuna, unless the Titans have longer range torpedos. Where the Titans shot one torpedo at a time, the Karuna puts out salvos of them, making them much more likely to actually hit.

As for why the GTVA even uses fighters. Because they need something to stop the UEF fighters from stripping their warships bare of weapons. Sure they got some nice anti-fighter weapons, but those alone just don't cut it if the enemy fighers can concentrate fully on destroying turrets. Even if the GTVA fighters are just distracting the enemy it gives the warships valuable time to shoot them down.
That would be if the GTVA fighters were totally outclassed to uselessness. But while the GTVA fighters are inferiour, they are still far from useless I'd imagine. Otherwise the UEF pilots wouldn't be afraid of the Balor.

Quote
the UEF simply didn't have all the shivan wreckage to reverse engineer beam technology from
That piece doesn't make sense. The Lucifer was the only vessel in the great war that had beams. And there was not a single part of the Lucifer in GTVA space. The GTI cracked beam technology purely form scans of the Lucifer. Maybe the shivan wreckage from the secend shivan incursion helped improve the GTVA beams to their current (blue) strength, but they had beams before they ever got their hands on shivan ones.
If there was any wreckage from the great war that contained beam cannons it could only have been in Sol, since at least the front half of the Lucifer (were all beams are located, including the sidewards facing) came through the node before blowing up.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 02:54:43 pm
In BP canon, Sol never even invested effort in developing beam cannon technology - it did not have the resources or inclination during the post-war collapse. (We have a dossier on post-war Sol that hasn't been posted yet.)

The GTVA developed beams from scans of the Lucifer and analysis of other Shivan weapons. The Shivan Megafunk turret, for example, is basically a severely hobbled beam weapon.

As for the Karuna vs. Hecate issue, you're neglecting a critical component of the two ships, which is the fighter complement. The Hecate carries more than hundred fighters; the Karuna can launch eight to twelve.

It's absolutely true that Karunas excel at stripping turrets. As a result a lot of GTVA ships have had their turret shielding upgraded. (We got a special SEXP added to the SCP to accomplish this.)

Neither side will be stupid.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on February 26, 2010, 05:23:08 pm
Torpedoes/Railguns being awesome at stripping off turrets is simply a side effect of how the game targets with projectile weapons vs. beams by default. Projectile weapons are always fired at subsystems (at random, mostly), whereas beams are fired at vertexes of the model or something.

Beams can be just as good at projectile weapons at stripping turrets if you change their targeting method through ai_profiles.tbl.

Wait, why did you need a SEXP to increase turret health? Couldn't you just change it in ships.tbl? Or is this going to happen halfway through the campaign, and would require duplicating ship entries otherwise?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 05:40:56 pm
Torpedoes/Railguns being awesome at stripping off turrets is simply a side effect of how the game targets with projectile weapons vs. beams by default. Projectile weapons are always fired at subsystems (at random, mostly), whereas beams are fired at vertexes of the model or something.

Yep, quite aware. It's a critical part of their balance.

Quote
Wait, why did you need a SEXP to increase turret health? Couldn't you just change it in ships.tbl? Or is this going to happen halfway through the campaign, and would require duplicating ship entries otherwise?

We don't need a SEXP to increase turret health; that's not what it does at all.

That solution would be very clumsy compared to what we have, which allows all sorts of cool stuff with very precise control.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 26, 2010, 05:56:22 pm
To be precise, we are using set-armor-type, which allows us precise control over how much damage each subsystem takes from each weapon class through the awesomeness that is armor.tbl.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on February 26, 2010, 07:31:48 pm
I'll assume the SEXP is needed because the change is going to happen partway through the campaign as turret armor can be set in the tables as well.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 07:32:58 pm
Nope, you're still missing it.

Set-armor-type doesn't have to work on turrets. It can work on anything. It can be used to change a ship, subsystem or turret's armor class mid-mission. It can be used on a per-ship rather than a per-class basis.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on February 26, 2010, 07:36:51 pm
I wasn't talking about what it could do, but guessing what you wanted to be done using it.
It wouldn't really make sense to have armor type spontaneously change mid-mission.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 26, 2010, 07:39:09 pm
Yep. The effect is that the capships have more staying power, without screaming "special hitpoints!!!!" to the vets.

I wasn't talking about what it could do, but guessing what you wanted to be done using it.
It wouldn't really make sense to have armor type spontaneously change mid-mission.

While I don't think we do that, it's certainly one possible application that would actually make sense. "We've detected a fluctuation in their shields, recalibrating weapons to take advantage of it", or something like that.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 07:45:55 pm
To the contrary, it very much would make sense to have armor type change mid-mission. A ship might deploy dispersants or 'sand' to disperse incoming fire. UEF ships employ active armor systems, and GTVA vessels have related technology.

More importantly, ships swap out weapon types. A UEF vessel could load a different ammunition type into its railguns or torpedoes.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on February 26, 2010, 09:53:36 pm
More importantly, ships swap out weapon types. A UEF vessel could load a different ammunition type into its railguns or torpedoes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just swap the weapon then? You could even have different impact effects.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on February 26, 2010, 10:00:24 pm
That would mean we'd have to create that new weapon in the tbl somewhere, probably. We like to reserve that space.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 10:04:09 pm
More importantly, ships swap out weapon types. A UEF vessel could load a different ammunition type into its railguns or torpedoes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just swap the weapon then? You could even have different impact effects.

Nope, not in every case. Besides, you can do that anyway.

Honestly not sure why you've spent so much time on this, the functions of the SEXP have been apparent for some time now.  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Inglonias on February 26, 2010, 10:16:18 pm


It's not that simple. FS2 ships are very large, very slow moving targets. Shooting at them with ballistic projectiles (which cannot be shot down), accelerated to humongous speeds makes a lot of sense, especially when you don't have beams. Note that we never said that Beams were inferior to mass drivers, in fact, quite the opposite is true. The UEF has the luxury to be able to use technology that the GTVA has deemed as awesome and impractical for their mission profile. In addition, the UEF simply didn't have all the shivan wreckage to reverse engineer beam technology from, not to mention that they just didn't have the need to spend much on military R&D.

Technically, mass drivers have an infinite range in (deep) space. They don't slow down at all. On the other hand, we can argue that these ships should not have a top speed (save relativistic speeds, but I won't go there) at all. Physics rears its ugly head once again! In all seriousness, the UEF would have a huge advantage with TAG missiles themselves.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on February 26, 2010, 10:55:57 pm
Exactly. Don't tread the path of 'real physics'. That way lies madness.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on February 27, 2010, 01:20:58 am
Halfway through. I couldn't turn fast enough against the two Dragon waves which all seemed to be aiming Nehru on purpose so he died a horrible death anyway and I didn't even weep, still failed Forced Entry, couldn't be bothered to hell, skipped it, heck it seems harder this time around, I get shot up by all the Maras and die before the Duke even appears. No, I won't fly the Herc II. Ran out of missiles at the mission after the Duke infiltration and I got sick of all the bombs so I just FS2'd and spammed Tornado missiles everywhere and rammed the bombers like a rage-quit monkey kid on crack.

One sad part was the Titan doing a courtesy shot while I was chasing down two Seraphims. Another shocker was for a (single) Tornado swarm to strike home on a Dragon with NO EFFECT, and I couldn't line up a single hit with dual PromS. I don't even know whose AI I'm using.

The only things I've seen may be more to code rather than the mod itself, "too far to acquire target lock" even though I'm in range, though I ran out of secondaries to lob around. And then I lost all voices out of the blue at the start of the mission where you return to Sol and then those two megas have that conversation.

This mod is story overload up to the point where I'm not sure if appreciation or short attention span comes first. Have to admit I too had the idea of writing intel on the warship equipment... but it looks like BP has beaten me to the punch. Too bad for me :lol: + bang wall.

Mixed opinion on the voices but voice is better than no voice or MS Sam (except for techroom use anyway) so I won't comment or feedback on it as a show of respect and appreciation. Very polished release.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 27, 2010, 11:36:55 am
Exactly. Don't tread the path of 'real physics'. That way lies madness.

Are we here to demonstrate why acceptable breaks from reality are acceptable? ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Molybdenum on February 27, 2010, 01:23:21 pm
Job well done! I've made it to forced entry and I have to say that voice acting and polish takes this already splendid campaign beyond quality.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 27, 2010, 10:23:08 pm
Job well done! I've made it to forced entry and I have to say that voice acting and polish takes this already splendid campaign beyond quality.

Try getting past Forced Entry first... :nervous:

...still failed Forced Entry, couldn't be bothered to hell, skipped it, heck it seems harder this time around, I get shot up by all the Maras and die before the Duke even appears. No, I won't fly the Herc II. Ran out of missiles at the mission after the Duke infiltration and I got sick of all the bombs so I just FS2'd and spammed Tornado missiles everywhere and rammed the bombers like a rage-quit monkey kid on crack.

1) Tone down difficulty;
2) Visit http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Forced_Entry

You CANNOT die in Forced Entry on Very Easy, because I didn't.

This mod is story overload up to the point where I'm not sure if appreciation or short attention span comes first.

BP is very story-driven. As Battuta has said before, BP isn't for everybody. If your lack of attention leads you to not appreciating the fusion of in-depth storyline and gameplay, you may be better off playing another mod like Warzone or SGWP2.

Mixed opinion on the voices but voice is better than no voice or MS Sam (except for techroom use anyway) so I won't comment or feedback on it as a show of respect and appreciation. Very polished release.

You may think that not commenting is a show of respect and appreciation, but BlackDove has shown otherwise when he smashed his berserk button reviewing an ST:R trailer (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57000.msg1148721#msg1148721).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on February 28, 2010, 03:01:44 am
BP is very story-driven. As Battuta has said before, BP isn't for everybody. If your lack of attention leads you to not appreciating the fusion of in-depth storyline and gameplay, you may be better off playing another mod like Warzone or SGWP2.
So...you want to explain to us why you're pairing a very well-made campaign with the eternal community joke in your alternate recommendations? :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 28, 2010, 03:24:42 am
Warzone's not that good?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 28, 2010, 03:32:36 am
i thought warzone was fine.  the only campaign i've played so far that i'd call bad is INFA.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on February 28, 2010, 06:34:31 pm
...Twilight...

Indeed, don't go there!  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on February 28, 2010, 10:45:06 pm
I've never played it, but what's wrong with Twilight?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on February 28, 2010, 10:52:51 pm
The best answer to that is: "just play it and tell me what you thought!"

The campaign is kind of incoherent, has technical elements which are not well implemented, etc. It's not a good example of the Cold Element continuity in the opinions of most of the people I've conversed with about it.

That said, the BP continuity is exponentially better.  :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 01, 2010, 04:07:34 am
BP is very story-driven. As Battuta has said before, BP isn't for everybody. If your lack of attention leads you to not appreciating the fusion of in-depth storyline and gameplay, you may be better off playing another mod like Warzone or SGWP2.
So...you want to explain to us why you're pairing a very well-made campaign with the eternal community joke in your alternate recommendations? :p
Warzone's not that good?
"The eternal community joke" is the SGWP2 (second great war part two), not warzones...
Warzones is nice, apart from having too many suns that completely white-out the screen.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 01, 2010, 05:00:40 am
So...you want to explain to us why you're pairing a very well-made campaign with the eternal community joke in your alternate recommendations? :p

I didn't pair them up. I was citing examples of other campaigns that focus more on blowing stuff up.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 01, 2010, 10:45:05 am
On short attention span versus appreciation, well, frankly I can go either way. Bunch of factors that I don't wish to mention because wall-of-text diatribes "aren't good things."

I was quite surprised that Earth rendered correctly even with the ho-humble Intel GMA45... lol... well I lagged HORRIBLY at the classic OLD WEST HIGH NOON SHOOTOUTS anyway LOL but I thought that was worth mentioning. XD. Still it's hard when you try not to do the Balor/Treb/Maxim spam.

*stops self from further thread derailing*
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 01, 2010, 11:13:27 am
And now for something completely different.

Could it be that Bei wasn't actually contacted by the Vishnans befre? He says something about Vishnans having contact with him "through time". Maybe when the Vishnans made mental contact the Human mind couldn't quite cope with the input from the non-linear minds of the Vishnans and misinterpreted some things to have happened in Beis past, when it really wasn't the case.

He never mentiones any feelings of precognition or familiarity with the situation untill the Vishnans make contact.
If he really did have prior contact to the Vishnans, why is he so surprised to see them both in the nebula and when they saved the Temaraire in "Preserving the Balance" (not that it needed saving.... I tried deleting the Vishnans out of that mission just for fun, and the battlegroup beat the second Shivan wave without a problem)?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 01, 2010, 11:23:10 am
And now for something completely different.

Could it be that Bei wasn't actually contacted by the Vishnans befre? He says something about Vishnans having contact with him "through time". Maybe when the Vishnans made mental contact the Human mind couldn't quite cope with the input from the non-linear minds of the Vishnans and misinterpreted some things to have happened in Beis past, when it really wasn't the case.

He never mentiones any feelings of precognition or familiarity with the situation untill the Vishnans make contact.
If he really did have prior contact to the Vishnans, why is he so surprised to see them both in the nebula and when they saved the Temaraire in "Preserving the Balance" (not that it needed saving.... I tried deleting the Vishnans out of that mission just for fun, and the battlegroup beat the second Shivan wave without a problem)?

...does the second wave even have any attack orders?

Also, what difficulty were you playing on? :p

Anyway, interpretations are good. Basically you're suggesting that the Vishnans communications with Sam caused a massive déjà vu. Maybe that was the case; maybe it was not. Does it even matter at all?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2010, 11:35:01 am
And now for something completely different.

Could it be that Bei wasn't actually contacted by the Vishnans befre? He says something about Vishnans having contact with him "through time". Maybe when the Vishnans made mental contact the Human mind couldn't quite cope with the input from the non-linear minds of the Vishnans and misinterpreted some things to have happened in Beis past, when it really wasn't the case.

He never mentiones any feelings of precognition or familiarity with the situation untill the Vishnans make contact.
If he really did have prior contact to the Vishnans, why is he so surprised to see them both in the nebula and when they saved the Temaraire in "Preserving the Balance" (not that it needed saving.... I tried deleting the Vishnans out of that mission just for fun, and the battlegroup beat the second Shivan wave without a problem)?

A very interesting hypothesis. However I do want to point out that this:

Quote
He never mentiones any feelings of precognition or familiarity with the situation untill the Vishnans make contact.

is quite false. Replay the early missions of the campaign and pay close attention, particularly when Sam boards the Duke.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 01, 2010, 01:27:11 pm
I don't remember that one too clearly, but the Vishnans quite clearly had mental contact with that ship. Maybe he felt some residue, or maybe that was the first time they tried to make contact.
But because they ended up frying the brains of the Dukes crew, they approached Bei so carefully that it didn't leave any more than impressions at first. And from there they worked their way up, till they could place visions and dreams and eventually make full contact, without harming him.

And yes, the Shivans do have attack orders and are beam-freed. One Ravana is set for the Orestes, the other and the Demon are set to attack the Sanctuary. But they are so far away that you have plenty of time to take down their beams and it was on medium I think.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 01, 2010, 01:33:27 pm
And yes, the Shivans do have attack orders and are beam-freed. One Ravana is set for the Orestes, the other and the Demon are set to attack the Sanctuary. But they are so far away that you have plenty of time to take down their beams and it was on medium I think.

Temeraire, I should hope. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 01, 2010, 02:14:54 pm
Yep right... the Temeraire of course.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on March 01, 2010, 02:59:17 pm
The fact they are not set to launch any fighter support must quite hamper their efficiency though, especially given that you have ample time to desarm them. Were the Vishnans not to come that early in the battle, the Shivans would surely have swarmed the few fighters you ahve left with their fighter/bomber compliments.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2010, 03:17:50 pm
Yeah, the bomber complement probably waiting in the wings would have swamped your ships pretty easily.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2010, 06:14:06 pm
I finally had the time and sit down and play through half of the new release today, and now I wish I had been able to a week sooner.  The voicework adds an immense amount of atmosphere; it's incredibly top-notch work across the board.  Both the community members and actors from other sources turned in fantastic performances, and the result adds an amazing amount of humanity to the story's progression.  The reams of new tech room data only add to that immersion; I especially like how you provided background info for the older FS2-era turret and beam weaponry.  I admittedly only played the original version once right after its release, so I doubt I've picked up on every small improvement, but the visual changes I do recognize are all good stuff.  Darius's original creation was something unique in the whole spectrum of FS modding, and the team's work in contributing to this re-release has made it all the better. :)

(Forced Entry was a bit hairy this time around, though it was mostly my own fault.  I lost track of what one or two of the wings were doing, and I didn't get them on protecting the Temeraire right after it jumped in.  As a result, it managed to limp away with all of 3% hull remaining...and that was just on Easy, too. :p)

For my own part, I was never entirely sure which sample submissions of mine you wound up using, so I've been keeping an ear out as I played to find out when I'd show up.  Imagine my surprise when I hear myself playing three or four Generic Wingmen in the same mission. :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2010, 06:27:54 pm
YOU HAVE BETRAYED SECRET MONGOOSE WING
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: FoxtrotTango on March 01, 2010, 07:48:32 pm
My word, my Southern flair truly has resulted in a respectfully flattering depiction of Commander Tell. This revamped campaign truly is as wonderful as Battuta has told.

I've still got Forced Entry to look forward to, but I'm glad that I've finally had a chance to play the new version. I've been away from the HLP for a while to settle some business elsewhere, but playing this again is restoring my passion anew. I do declare.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2010, 07:50:11 pm
YOU HAVE BETRAYED SECRET MONGOOSE WING
You saw nuzzing!  Nuzzing!

:nervous:

On another note, I really appreciate the tweaks made to Keepers of Hell.  It's become a mission that a new player has a legitimate shot at beating the first time through, instead of something that requires prescience.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 02, 2010, 12:44:24 pm
Were the names...

Spoiler:
...for the beams...

...generated at random?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 02, 2010, 12:48:03 pm
Battuta possesses a random name generator in gray matter that inhabits his skull.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 03, 2010, 01:22:40 am
Wow...I'd forgotten just how intense Universal Truth was.  It managed to kill me the first time through because I was being stupid, but even when I wound up making it through, I was at 33% hull, and the Orestes was hovering somewhere in the 20s.  (Those two Rakshasas that jump in a good ways in are evil.)  It still makes for an amazing climax of the campaign.

So yeah, like I said before, this was just amazing.  I have to give special recognition to the actor who played Samuel Bei, as he did a fantastic job of imbuing the character with a great deal of humanity and sympathy.  On the community side of things, Ransom did his usual excellent work as Corey, and the good Colonol was smashing as the Orestes' comm officer.  Fun to see that Darius got a little author cameo right at the end, too.  Great work all-around, everyone. :)

(Also, I chuckled a bit when I saw myself in the credits, as I had this three-line blob of text consisting of seven or eight bit parts.  I guess auditioning for every random pilot line pays off. :D)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hurleybird on March 03, 2010, 01:35:01 am
It has good voice acting, cutscenes, and is nicely polished, but there was also a lot I didn't like about this release. The story was a bit weak. The vishnan arc was lame, and you made the shivans feel very anti-climatic and hollow.

Spoiler:
The bit with the vishnan and Shivan ships talking together made me facepalm.

The mission design was far too straightforward linear, to the point were one non-critical capital ship being destroyed failed multiple missions. Good mission design means multiple potential outcomes from missions.

Spoiler:
The war with earth at the end was also a disappointment. It would have been nice to have more subtlety than "Oh no, command is evil and wants to invade earth because they're too religious and peaceful". There's absolutely no intrigue in that at all.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun experience, and I'm glad you guys made it. But it seems a shame that you put in so much work and did so many things JUST RIGHT, only to bring the end experience back down to merely average with a poorly thought out story.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 01:51:16 am
Right, a few things to clear up in that post.

First off, hurleybird, this is a rerelease of a campaign from a few years back. It was the sole and original work of Darius - not of a team. This version is just a polished up and voice acted version of that.

To address a few specific points:

Quote
The vishnan arc was lame, and you made the shivans feel very anti-climatic and hollow.

To be honest, I wasn't a big fan of the Vishnans myself originally, but after learning more about them and knowing future plans, I'm happy with them. They'll grow on you.

Quote
The mission design was far too straightforward linear, to the point were one non-critical capital ship being destroyed failed multiple missions. Good mission design means multiple potential outcomes from missions.

Au contraire. There is no way for the Blue Planet story to work if even a single ship is lost, because each vessel plays a role in later missions.

If each mission contained a branch for the loss of every possible combination of ships, then every later mission would need multiple dialogue stages to account for this, as well as missions built to account for the possible presence or absence of every permutation of ship.

It is not remotely practical.

You may not have noticed, but every ship from the first mission is maintained throughout the campaign. All the ships are critical.

Quote
The war with earth at the end was also a disappointment. It would have been nice to have more subtlety than "Oh no, command is evil and wants to invade earth because they're too religious and peaceful". There's absolutely no intrigue in that at all.

Another area where I would have once agreed with you, but where you're now badly wrong. In fact you're about as far from right as it gets. Start here. (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/prose.html)

Take a moment to read through this forum and you'll find so much intrigue on that point that nobody can seem to agree who's in the right and who's in the wrong.

Quote
only to bring the end experience back down to merely average with a poorly thought out story.

The story was not altered from the original release a couple years ago. While I'm personally in agreement with your critiques, between the thousands of words of prose information now online and the upcoming War in Heaven I think they're largely satisfied.

And the last thing this story was is 'poorly thought out.' You may disagree with stylistic choices, but on a structural level in terms of foreshadowing, it's marvelously subtle and complete. You can see the upcoming GTVA invasion as early as the first playable missions if you pay close attention, and the Vishnans are foreshadowed nearly as early on.

While I'm happy with many elements of your critique, you're conflating 'I don't like it' with 'it was done wrong.' Blue Planet isn't for everyone. The story requires a lot of attention, but the rewards are there.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 03, 2010, 01:54:37 am
It has good voice acting, cutscenes, and is nicely polished, but there was also a lot I didn't like about this release. The story was a bit weak. The vishnan arc was lame, and you made the shivans feel very anti-climatic and hollow.

Spoiler:
The bit with the vishnan and Shivan ships talking together made me facepalm.

Let's just say that the motives of vishnans and shivans will become clearer in the future...


Quote
The mission design was far too straightforward linear, to the point were one non-critical capital ship being destroyed failed multiple missions. Good mission design means multiple potential outcomes from missions.

Grand scale rebalancing or re-writing the missions was not in the agenda. The storyline was set, and you should be aware that multiple outcomes in a campaign like this that concentrates around a small group of ships that appears in practically all missions means a LOT of branching, which would have been out of our resources even if we had wanted that. If one ship got destroyed, it should naturally carry over to the next mission. Which, if you know anything of probabilities, means a lot of permutations very fast...

Besides, there are multiple outcomes. You can either keep Nehru alive or let him die... :p


Quote
Spoiler:
The war with earth at the end was also a disappointment. It would have been nice to have more subtlety than "Oh no, command is evil and wants to invade earth because they're too religious and peaceful". There's absolutely no intrigue in that at all.

I know it's frustrating being a pawn when the game makes no sense, right? But you're informed on a need to know basis, pilot... Just trust the command to know what they're doing.

 :nervous:

Quote
Don't get me wrong, it was a fun experience, and I'm glad you guys made it. But it seems a shame that you put in so much work and did so many things JUST RIGHT, only to bring the end experience back down to merely average with a poorly thought out story.

Well, the storyline is not for everyone, as has been stated already multiple times. I'm glad you enjoyed it, though.

Ach curses, good General was faster. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 03, 2010, 01:55:15 am
(Also, I chuckled a bit when I saw myself in the credits, as I had this three-line blob of text consisting of seven or eight bit parts.  I guess auditioning for every random pilot line pays off. :D)

I had two lines. You're still better off than me. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 02:05:08 am
The mission design was far too straightforward linear, to the point were one non-critical capital ship being destroyed failed multiple missions. Good mission design means multiple potential outcomes from missions.

I'm still a bit bemused by this critique since the original FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 missions, which are presumably the very definition of 'good mission design', do nothing of the sort.  :wtf: Ships that can die in those campaigns by and large never appear again whether or not you saved them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on March 03, 2010, 02:18:09 am
Eh, let it go, the man can have his opinion.

Although, I'd have to agree, the war with Earth is something you will come to understand more of in the future. I for one, would have approved the plans if I was a Staff Officer at the time, knowing what I do. That, and I'm heavily biased pro-GTVA.  ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 03, 2010, 02:19:06 am
Speaking of further tweaks, I also enjoyed the fact that the two 'special guest appearence' ships at the pentultimate mission actually engage each other now. Before, they were rather omninus just hanging in space, but having them slugging it out just made the situtation seem that much more desperate.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 02:21:16 am
Sorry if we came off too strong, then, there's no problem with opinions. And clearly there's no way he could have already read all the prose dossiers about the reasons behind the war.

As we're fond of saying, Blue Planet isn't for everyone. But it's worth thinking about. I'll see if I can dig up my first review of Blue Planet, because to be honest I think it was nearly identical to his (minus the mission critique.)

Speaking of further tweaks, I also enjoyed the fact that the two 'special guest appearence' ships at the pentultimate mission actually engage each other now. Before, they were rather omninus just hanging in space, but having them slugging it out just made the situtation seem that much more desperate.

A lot of people have problems with the 'talking ships'. But they do manage to impart a fair amount of mythology without resorting to infodumping. I've come to think it's rather clever. And the Shivan voice acting makes them pretty scary - they're terse, blunt, and alien.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 03, 2010, 02:38:02 am
A lot of people have problems with the 'talking ships'. But they do manage to impart a fair amount of mythology without resorting to infodumping. I've come to think it's rather clever. And the Shivan voice acting makes them pretty scary - they're terse, blunt, and alien.


"We... do." :mad2:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 03, 2010, 04:03:03 am
Quote
Speaking of further tweaks, I also enjoyed the fact that the two 'special guest appearence' ships at the pentultimate mission actually engage each other now. Before, they were rather omninus just hanging in space, but having them slugging it out just made the situtation seem that much more desperate.
Are you sure? On my end they always shot at each other (after the conversation was over) both in the original release and the 3.6.10 adapted version, allthough there was this annoying bug that stoped the music tracks after a few seconds. I'm really glad that one is gone for good.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on March 03, 2010, 09:39:20 am
I agree, the super-juggernauts-or-whatever at the end did fire on each other, on both the old release on the DC. Must have been an issue on your side.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 03, 2010, 01:02:52 pm
Gah, that's the one thing I forgot to mention: I really liked the vocal effects for the Vishnans and Shivans.  That sort of echoing, ethereal sound you assigned to the Vishnans fit their identity as extra-dimensional preservers, and I liked how you layered the comm node effect under the Shivan dialog to give it that extra bit of menace.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 03, 2010, 02:29:01 pm
I agree, the super-juggernauts-or-whatever at the end did fire on each other, on both the old release on the DC. Must have been an issue on your side.

Huh, in my last version of BP they never fired on each other. This time, they were trading broadsides.

Yay for me then.

I loved that the Shivans just keep upping the ante as far as the survival of the human race goes. For the sake of drama, it should always be possible to blunt and cripple the Shivan advances, whether it is destroying the Lucifer or killing the Santhanas. And yet the freaky little bugs STILL keep coming up with stuff that leaves everyone wondering, "how the hell are we even going to survive this next battle?" The juggernaught fleet was a class moment of, "they have not yet begun to fight".

It doesn't always have to be a size thing. The, "oh crap their fighters have shields," or "oh crap they can use unstable nodes" made the Shivans just as intimidating as the scale of their fleet.

The GTVA is getting better at killing them, and with the Vishnans they now have allies. But the oh crap factor what makes the Shivans memorable. And if humanity screws the pooch in this civil war, we may end up losing their help all together.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 03, 2010, 04:25:36 pm
I for one, would have approved the plans if I was a Staff Officer at the time, knowing what I do. That, and I'm heavily biased pro-GTVA.  ;)

 
Me too. . . . . . but with less V.
 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on March 03, 2010, 07:21:21 pm
There's a typo in one of the Uglies' tech-room description - "oast" instead of "past" (or last).
Several sentences in Species.tbl don't have spaces after period.Like so.

Makes MS Sam hiccup. Nitpick FTW. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hurleybird on March 03, 2010, 07:57:29 pm
I'm still a bit bemused by this critique since the original FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 missions, which are presumably the very definition of 'good mission design', do nothing of the sort.  :wtf: Ships that can die in those campaigns by and large never appear again whether or not you saved them.

I agree with you. The best mission design I've seen is the BTRL demo where very little things in each mission would have consequences in subsequent missions. Of course, that was over a very small number of missions. As the size of the campaign grows, the different combination of consequences grows exponentially. This is why massive and deep RPGs tend to be buggy out the gate.

Another good design is to have winning and losing paths, with in between missions so the player can move sideways from on path to the other. AKA, the Wing Commander mission structure. You can get multiple levels of depth as well, besides determining which path you're on, your performance on specific objectives can have specific consequences down the line, or not.

If you're going to make a game or campaign without meaningful consequences, the least you can do is give the illusion that there are consequences. Most retail FS/FS2 missions work in this way, so that you hear how it was a bad thing that you let a bunch of escorts die, or a good thing that you saved them all, but there are no meaningful consequences besides that. This is also the Bioware philosophy, where you can have 5 dialog options that each give the same response to the person you're talking to. For the most part it works: if the player doesn't go back and check the other responses it might really feel like there are meaningful consequences even when they are completely absent.

BP on the other hand, doesn't even give the illusion of consequences. Each mission must be completed exactly or you lose. It's worse design than any of the alternatives.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 08:18:18 pm
No offense, but I'm guessing you haven't done much FRED work. There's not a single FreeSpace campaign (except maybe Uncharted Territory?) that does what you're suggesting, and there's good reason for it.

Neither of the above alternatives could work, since the BtRL style only works on a very small scale - in fact nothing that happens in the first BtRL mission really impacts the second on the level of number of ships, never mind the presence of an entire warship.

The branching Wing Commander style could never work since there would be no way for the branches to merge: you couldn't have a dead ship come back to life.

You cite the main FS2 campaign as giving an 'illusion of consequence', but the only reason that works is because the ships never reappear no matter what you do.

BP actually provides far more meaningful consequences: it allows you to succeed. In retail FS2 you can neither succeed or fail, since saving a ship has no impact.

There's just no way to bring a dead ship back, and no way to build a mission that works and is fun both with a ship and without it.

BP's persistent fleet is considerably more ambitious than anything in the retail FS2 campaign, and for that ambition to be realized, the missions need to be set up the way they are.

Or, put more simply: BP takes exactly the same approach that the retail FS2 campaigns do, namely, that all critical ships must be saved. You seem to be under the impression that some of the ships are somehow 'non-critical', but they aren't. For later missions to work, every warship has to make it through.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 03, 2010, 08:25:07 pm
pro-GTVA

Oh yeah. XD

It sucks that I don't know of any peaceful ways to deal with Earth without the politics of the "OPEN" party getting in the way. I can see why they had no choice, WIPE THE UEF OUT OF THE SKY!!! (Though I am bothered by the potential chance that someone in high command simply got greedy like AoA suggests, rather than going to war purely on the reason of driving home the point of how important it is to prepare for Shivan threats)

Shivans are waiting outside and they dare to stay "OPEN" 24/7?!?!? Screw that, if the universe is that cold-hearted, then damn well better get more guns just for the race to stay alive!!! VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM!!!

----------------------------

(please note that I completely ignored the existence of the

Spoiler:
Vishnans/Brahmans/First Time/whatever/etc

completely for the duration of all the words above, albeit in a "broken the 4th wall" sense. there are many things in BP's storyline that don't really "click" with me, but this is just one of many different takes on post-Capella anyway.)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 08:27:46 pm
Oh, and @Hurleybird:

So far as I know there are only a few missions (three? four?) with the conditions you've outlined, which is a far cry from 'each mission' as you claim.

Anyway, since I'm worried this is all coming out too hostile, if you want to outline a specific set of suggestions for how you think the missions could have been done instead, I'll be happy to consider them. But I have to warn you, unless you've done FREDding yourself, it's probably going to be impractical.

Consider Forced Entry. Assuming the Sanctuary, Temeraire, and Solace as story-critical ships, that leaves the Labouchere, Bretonia, and Duke as ships that could be lost.

If they were, in any permutation:

1) All later missions with this battlegroup would need to be altered to account for these losses, in all possible permutations. That means 7 new initial mission states in addition to the default state (if I did my math right.)

2) None of these ships could ever participate in dialogue chains, or be mentioned in briefings after Forced Entry without using lots of alternate briefing stages (exponentially more as the campaign wore on.)

3) You would need to build 7 different hostile attack patterns instead of 1 for all later missions involving this group.

4) The number of hostile warships would need to change dynamically based on how many of these ships were alive.

It's a nightmare. And that's just for one mission.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 03, 2010, 08:44:24 pm
Meh, branching mission paths in space sims tend to be more trouble than they're worth. I'd rather have epic set pieces that having that effort broken up into multiple missions to show 'choice'.

No reason for you guys to burry yourselves under more work than you have to. You still have a third part of this story to put out someday right?  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on March 03, 2010, 08:53:23 pm
Quote
Speaking of further tweaks, I also enjoyed the fact that the two 'special guest appearence' ships at the pentultimate mission actually engage each other now. Before, they were rather omninus just hanging in space, but having them slugging it out just made the situtation seem that much more desperate.
Are you sure? On my end they always shot at each other (after the conversation was over) both in the original release and the 3.6.10 adapted version, allthough there was this annoying bug that stoped the music tracks after a few seconds. I'm really glad that one is gone for good.

wait, they didn't engage in EITHER version for me.  i figured they weren't supposed to.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2010, 08:54:59 pm
I doubt that. Replay the mission, you'll probably see them firing.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hurleybird on March 03, 2010, 08:58:05 pm
Neither of the above alternatives could work, since the BtRL style only works on a very small scale - in fact nothing that happens in the first BtRL mission really impacts the second on the level of number of ships, never mind the presence of an entire warship.

It works on any scale. Just that as the scale becomes larger so does the work involved, and then some. How feasible it is depends on the team.

BP's persistent fleet is considerably more ambitious than anything in the retail FS2 campaign, and for that ambition to be realized, the missions need to be set up the way they are.

Or, put more simply: BP takes exactly the same approach that the retail FS2 campaigns do, namely, that all critical ships must be saved. You seem to be under the impression that some of the ships are somehow 'non-critical', but they aren't. For later missions to work, every warship has to make it through.

You cite the main FS2 campaign as giving an 'illusion of consequence', but the only reason that works is because the ships never reappear no matter what you do.

BP actually provides far more meaningful consequences: it allows you to succeed. In retail FS2 you can neither succeed or fail, since saving a ship has no impact.

You're logic is a bit twisted here. You rally against how difficult it would be to have the mission go on after ships die, and then you state how making it so every one must be saved is more 'ambitious'. That's an obvious contradiction.

And then you're comparison about the number of meaningful consequences in BP and retail FS2 is completely wrong. There are two meaningful consequences in every BP and FS2 retail (excluding some exceptions in FS2 retail's optional missions) mission, success or failure. The only difference is that FS2 has many non-meaningful consequences as well, and that's one of the reasons that it's a better designed. Whether a consequence is meaningful or not isn't as important as whether it *feels* meaningful. For example, in the final undercover missions in FS2, what if the player decides not to fire on the civilian ships and never takes the bait? In his mind he has made a meaningful choice, and for all he knows firing on the ships could have lead to more missions in that story arc. Also, when you can still complete the mission without saving all of your escorts, it makes saving ALL the escorts feel that much more gratifying. Do medals and achievements have meaningful consequences? No, but some players still enjoy them and find them rewarding!

You say that all of the ships are critical... then why not add some ships that aren't? Nothing is stopping you from adding more ships that are not critical, or other secondary objectives that are just there to be done!

The branching Wing Commander style could never work since there would be no way for the branches to merge: you couldn't have a dead ship come back to life.

There's just no way to bring a dead ship back, and no way to build a mission that works and is fun both with a ship and without it.

To answer each question, yes the branches can merge, to a degree. Otherwise there would be no way to get from one path to the other.

(http://images.game-central.org/editorials/wcepicfail/wc-3.png)

And yes you can build a mission that works with and without a ship. You just have to close the loop. For example, if you lost a ship in the first mission, and that consequence stuck with you throughout the game, then that would be very hard to script. If the existence of that ship only matter for the next 3, 2, or 1 levels then you don't have to do as much work. For example, you could save a ship in the first mission. In the 2nd mission you get intercepted by a destroyer and if you are sucesful in saving that ship in the first mission it sacrifices itself to take out the destroyer. On the third mission the no matter what the result of the first mission, that ship is gone. But if you saved it in the first you have the meaningful consequence of making the 2nd mission a lot easier for the player by taking out the destroyer.

EDIT: corrected a bit of bad grammar, was rushed into joining a L4D match when I posted this!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on March 03, 2010, 09:12:41 pm
When I start getting paid to FRED campaigns, then I'd think about putting in the extra work for branching consequences. Until then...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: FoxtrotTango on March 04, 2010, 01:37:28 am
You seem to have missed the point where this story is already tested and proven and written in stone. It's a very story-driven campaign and those people who let the story take a backseat to the gameplay don't get many fans because most people like to see a motivational drive for the consequences in the campaign. This has a lot of motivation. You're just a bit too concerned with how the plot won't let you just let one of the ships die, and judging by your hastily-added comment tacked on at the end there, you're used to more open-ended games with a quicker pace and a story that's not as broad. Hence, Blue Planet is not your kind of campaign, and we can respect that. But you need to respect their decision to make and keep the campaign this way, even if it doesn't suit your very specific standards.

That said, let's let this small issue drop and get back to the discussion, please.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hurleybird on March 04, 2010, 07:05:52 am
You seem to have missed the point where this story is already tested and proven and written in stone. It's a very story-driven campaign and those people who let the story take a backseat to the gameplay don't get many fans because most people like to see a motivational drive for the consequences in the campaign. This has a lot of motivation. You're just a bit too concerned with how the plot won't let you just let one of the ships die, and judging by your hastily-added comment tacked on at the end there, you're used to more open-ended games with a quicker pace and a story that's not as broad. Hence, Blue Planet is not your kind of campaign, and we can respect that. But you need to respect their decision to make and keep the campaign this way, even if it doesn't suit your very specific standards.

That said, let's let this small issue drop and get back to the discussion, please.

Liking L4D doesn't mean I'm a twitch gamer. MY favourite games are Planescape: Torment and Starflight ;)

And yes this conversation needs to die. The whole thing started as a small comment that some of the people involved took offence to, and that's where it ballooned.  Even as you're telling me to let it go, you're pointing out that BP is the way it is because it is story driven, and that's dead wrong. You can add as many secondary objectives as you want to the missions in BP without needing to take away from the story at all. Lack of secondary objectives to engage the player, even ones that have no meaningful consequences (like in retail many FS2 missions) makes for worse design than if they were present. Some people just need to learn to accept criticism, and realize that no game or campaign is perfect.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on March 04, 2010, 07:10:52 am
Wait. Since when was this conversation about Secondary Objectives? I was quite sure the primary objectives filled up enough of the player's time.


Eh. Have your own opinion mate.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 04, 2010, 09:47:08 am
You seem to have missed the point where this story is already tested and proven and written in stone. It's a very story-driven campaign and those people who let the story take a backseat to the gameplay don't get many fans because most people like to see a motivational drive for the consequences in the campaign. This has a lot of motivation. You're just a bit too concerned with how the plot won't let you just let one of the ships die, and judging by your hastily-added comment tacked on at the end there, you're used to more open-ended games with a quicker pace and a story that's not as broad. Hence, Blue Planet is not your kind of campaign, and we can respect that. But you need to respect their decision to make and keep the campaign this way, even if it doesn't suit your very specific standards.

That said, let's let this small issue drop and get back to the discussion, please.

Liking L4D doesn't mean I'm a twitch gamer. MY favourite games are Planescape: Torment and Starflight ;)

And yes this conversation needs to die. The whole thing started as a small comment that some of the people involved took offence to, and that's where it ballooned.  Even as you're telling me to let it go, you're pointing out that BP is the way it is because it is story driven, and that's dead wrong. You can add as many secondary objectives as you want to the missions in BP without needing to take away from the story at all. Lack of secondary objectives to engage the player, even ones that have no meaningful consequences (like in retail many FS2 missions) makes for worse design than if they were present. Some people just need to learn to accept criticism, and realize that no game or campaign is perfect.

Let's just let it go, mate. Nobody got offended, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 04, 2010, 11:46:08 am
Quote
Some people just need to learn to accept criticism, and realize that no game or campaign is perfect.
That the directors cut and the 3.6.10 re-release exist show pretty well that the BP team does take criticism seriously. Almost all the changes put in the directors cut were points criticised by people right here in this forum.

If Battuta had just answered "No, we don't like that" I could understand that comment of yours, but he tried (quite extensively) to tell you why they did what they did. Just because someone doesn't have the same taste like you doesn't mean they are incapable of taking criticism.

As for me, if a secondary objective/side quest has neither impact on the story nor any other benefit short of a "you did well" line in the de-briefing, I can do without them. It's just like those achivements in so many new games, that give you a small picture and a line of text but nothing else.
But just because I don't like those (or impact- and benefitless secondary objectives), doesn't mean I think any less of people who do happen to like them.

....as long as they grant me the same curtesy for my own opinion that is!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 04, 2010, 11:50:37 am
Let's just let it go.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hurleybird on March 04, 2010, 08:23:38 pm
Let's just let it go.

/lets go  :P

On a more positive note, I thought that some of the longer sequences of strung together missions (eg., chasing the ghost ship through all those nodes) was pretty well done. The dream sequence with the Lucifer was also highly cool  :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 04, 2010, 08:38:01 pm
I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I'm sorry we got hung up on discussing that particular disagreement.

No one campaign is for everybody, and there's always something to improve.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 05, 2010, 07:50:44 am
Hey, I wanted to sound off on blue planet a bit.

I've had two main blue planet 'sessions' - the first was before the release of the VA version, and on a laptop with not enough juice to handle it. This led me to stop in A Time For Heroes, largely because I couldn't defeat it. I had been impressed with the music and a wide and interesting (and HARD) variety of missions, and found the vishnans somewhat goofy, and put down FS2 for a while.

Coming back to BP after almost a year felt ...good. I was glad to finish what I'd started, and really pissed off when the old version of the campaign crashed after finishing the final shooty mission before the proper conclusion. Pulled the soundtrack out of the .vp to listen to while I worked on various projects, dropped by to look for a fix, and found the director's cut.

So um... guess I'm going to drop a megapost after playing it five times, with two big chunks.

Vishnans and Shivans and Brahmans, oh my:
My biggest beef with the Vishnans came with the nature of their name... "Shivans" was always an external title for those zany quintapeds we humans applied, and it was always a best-fit rather than a proper name. FS1 ends with the protagonist remarking that they're the great preservers along with the great destroyers. Struck me as a bit odd that in BP the shivans knew of themselves as shiva. Wackily enough I'd have been okay with a line where the vishnans were like "yo homes just call us vishnans it'll fit with the current thing you got with our Destroyer buddies and keep you from getting too confused". Its odd that vishnan tech was so superior to shivan tech. An interesting alternative would have been vishnan technology being on par with shivan tech - meaning much less hardcore vishnan fighters - and downgrading the shivan forces in vishnan missions to bring back the HARD, but that's more of a fun thought than a proper quibble.

Kinda sad the Capella backgrounds with hundreds of Saths having a goddamn convention couldn't have been reused but with keepers thrown in. Having had a wall of Saths in the background "behind" Shiva and a wall of keepers "behind" Vishnu would have been sweet. I would have appreciated an exchange during that level where one of the wingmen says "how come we aren't up to our ass in all the non-Sathanas shivan capital ships?" and the other says "oh they're so busy throwing down with the Vishnans they can probably only spare fighters".

The Ancients can't be the Brahmans. I... that would make me sad. I hope that 'the ones that are now extinct with potential to create' Vishnu refers to in the final battle were the Ancients.

Wondering if the Petrarch was right at the end of FS2 and the Sath Fleet was moving from universe to universe. Brings up the possibility that the triumvirate is scattered between universes for the most part, and the majority of the shivans and their juggs were in the FS1/FS2 verse whilst the majority of the vishnans were in Sanctuaryverse. And who the hell knows where the Brahmans are. As an aside, kind of sad you're not splashing more judeochristian motifs into the shivans and correspondingly the vishnans.  The Lucifer especially artistically echoes its namesake with those two horns on its head and crucifix shape; you could bring in some of Vishnu's thematic imagery for the Vishnans. Dark blue / stormcloud coloring and patterns, conch, wheel, and lotus shapes could make some truly interesting ships. The current line just doesn't fit the Vishnu/angelic theme as well as the shivan ships fit the Shiva/demonic theme.

If Vishnu is sending Space Family Bei and the 14th Battlegroup back to their own universe as a way of warning them from war and restoring things to their rightful place, how come they don't punch the Sanctuary off the universe? Would have made an interesting encounter at least. Sammy Bei could have been like "hey you guys what gives we were bros just a second ago" and you'd have a mission where you fight them to save the Sanctuary. Would have helped cast apparently pure good entities as potentially misunderstood or complex, like FS1 and FS2 has cast the Shivans with their respective ending narrations. Or perhaps you might shift in the final battle from fighting shivans to fighting vishnans and shivans who are also fighting each other. Also if the Vishnans caused the 14th BG to go to the alternate universe as a way of giving the Beis a chance to get back together and see how much it sucks to not have Earth, the Great Psyche is going to feel really dumb when it reads about how Morian went all PTSD and GTVA Command got scared and told Morian to Do Something. Regardless, a slavish dedication to balance and order can and has lead to acts of unimaginable cruelty and destruction; not utilizing this to add some gray to the black and white of shiva/vishnu would be a shame.

And on the human side of things:
How come the GTVA can afford a line of blueberry flavor doom rays, pulse cannon, and little pew pew turrets and sweet ass new destroyers but no similarly massively improved fightercraft? Is that 'cause the Vasudans who didn't get their economy ruined post-Capella bankrolled the new ships and the terrans are left with just enough change to get two new fighters and a new mekhu that cycle-fires? The flavor text on weapons seems to indicate that it's mostly terran firms coming up with the new capital ship weapons...

Upon reflection, back-engineering some of the later War in Heaven prose into Age of Aquarius and expanding the dialogue upon arrival in Sol might have improved the final mission. Pointing out that the colonies bankrupted themselves for two decades building the portal to give the stars back to Earth would have made the tense response of the renjian even more confusing and frustrating to the characters. This would help explain why not -everyone- jumps ship along with the Bei family. Alternatively, a longer scene with an initially cordial first encounter could have gone sour more subtly and slowly, as well as eliciting more commentary from the secondary characters and more Earth backstory to frame WiH from the Renjian. Or maybe something like this:

Orestes: "we're back earth how rad is that"
Renjian: "yay cmon we'll escort you and hang out and talk about religiosity"
Orestes: "hang on I gotta phone call from command"
Temeraire: "also we fought shivans again like twice"
Renjian: "man they're still a problem?"
Temeraire: "too right bro good thing you guys have ships and stuff"
Renjian: "but ships have guns and guns are war and war sucks. :("
Temeraire: "that's true, 50 years ago ursa bombers armed with positive vibrations DID destroy the lucifer before it turned earth into a radiated hellhole that might have looked like this. Here let me send you high def pics of your ashes we took in an alternate universe where our military dropped the ball on the whole shivans coming to kill all of us all the time issue."
Renjian: "oh yeaaaah. btw what lovely beam cannons you have"
Orestes: "yeah were supposed to use them to take control of sol if you guys don't get with the program and help us prepare for the next inevitable shivan onslaught"
Renjian: "DESPERTA FERRO"
Orestes: "oh what now"
Labouchere: "what does that even mean?"
Renjian: "WE DIE ON OUR FEET! Die warmongers that we are attacking without first asking what a beta aquilae convention is or why it would have jurisdiction over our stuff and what surrendering would entail. HELM, MANEUVER US TO TAKE AS MUCH ENEMY FIRE AS POSSIBLE."
Admiral Dad: "Defection and stuff"
Wingmen and all those other ships: "Man we should debate the importance of morality vs the expediency of wars of survival with the shivans and have some people support both sides"
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on March 05, 2010, 07:56:00 am
 :lol:

Sorry, I can't stop smiling right now. We need more reviews like yours Avatar :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 05, 2010, 09:41:18 am
BlackDove would be half-proud, I guess.

Don't worry, Avatar. I doubt the Ancients are the Brahmans. Keep in mind what Dante has said about the Terrans not creating like the Brahmans of old. In that context, the Brahmans would be the Great Creators, while the Shivans are the Great Destroyers and the Vishnans the Great Preservers. The Ancients did not create. They destroyed, just like the Shivans, and that was probably why the Shivans exterminated them down to the last of their kind.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 05, 2010, 10:07:50 am
Great stuff, Avatar. And I can't respond to specifics per se, but let's just say that your thoughts are in lines with ours in a lot of respects.

Ancients =! Brahmans. And the 'Vishnan' name was presumably plucked from Samuel Bei's consciousness by the Vishnans themselves, not self-applied.

Remember that all the information you have on the Vishnans was provided by the Vishnans themselves. As you've suggested, there may be more ambiguity to them than a single encounter could supply.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 05, 2010, 07:00:17 pm
True, true. I mean what with the hints of quantum pulse communication between Space Family Bei and the preservers it certainly seems that they could have given themselves that title, but I'm getting the feeling that the long ubership dialogue was Bei-exclusive. Having Vishnu call Shiva, Shiva brings that otherwise external name internal to the triumvirate and seems iffy to me.

But seriously, how come the Vishnans let the Sanctuary leave? It clearly belongs in its own universe and is crewed by folks who have no business being alive in FS1/FS2 verse. Can Shiva file a complaint or something? "Dear Brahma, your preserver droids took pity on some guy and let him take a copy of his dead wife from this universe back to his universe. Love, the shivans PS we miss you"?

Anyhow. I guess I didn't really properly wrap up that extra long ramble: Guys, loved the hell out of BP and I can't wait for more. Been spreading the word around about it and showing it off as best as I can. Here's hoping for a super splendiferous AoA Special Edition sometime down the road with a few more tweaks in addition to War in Heaven and BP3: Son of Blue Planet.

also yay the ancients aren't the brahmans that would have been mega lame being killed off by their killbots

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 05, 2010, 07:20:15 pm
Best commenter ever!

Quote
but I'm getting the feeling that the long ubership dialogue was Bei-exclusive. Having Vishnu call Shiva, Shiva brings that otherwise external name internal to the triumvirate and seems iffy to me.

Remember, that's one of Sam's visions, presumably as relayed to him by Vishnu. His particular naming schema - remember, he named them Vishnans (I think) - is probably just being riffed off of.

It doesn't mean they call themselves Shivan/Brahman/Vishnan. That would be silly.

Quote
But seriously, how come the Vishnans let the Sanctuary leave? It clearly belongs in its own universe and is crewed by folks who have no business being alive in FS1/FS2 verse.

Very interesting question, isn't it? You'd think it would be problematic to the Balance.

As for the rest: hooray!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on March 05, 2010, 08:09:18 pm
I assumed the other race that exhibited "potential" was the Vasudans from the (same)alternate universe(the other half of what would have been the GTVA), not the Ancients.

"Now extinct" seems to more logically suggest 'recently dead', and 'somewhere within the past 50 years' is a lot more recent than 8000+ years ago. (I'm assuming that without the assistance of the GTA fleets, the Vasudans were far too scattered to put up any real fight, and without the ability to send out a fleet distraction like the Terrans needed to get the Sanctuary safely away and hidden, there is probably no more left of the Vasudan race and culture than that of the Ancients(or non-Sanctuary Terrans).)

I also assumed Vishnu let the Sanctuary go as he felt Shiva had overstepped his authority/duty in that universe. Perhaps the "balance" to "be restored" was the banishing of Shiva, and/or perhaps releasing the Sanctuary's people from that universe was its own sort of balance/compensation for Shiva's overstepping?

Admittedly, the multiverse thing is a little confusing. The entities of the council(or at least the Vishnans, by Bei's log) are supposed to be beyond existing on a normal plane of existence, yet the knowledge from Bei's memories was apparently significantly new information to the Vishnans(shouldn't they know what happens in the other universes?). Yet, also somehow, Samuel Bei apparently had some destiny to be where he was, and had prior 'experience' with the Vishnans(the "ancient voices" from his dreams).

It also seems to have been hinted at that Vishnans(of some sort?) may have been responsible for the anomaly that sent the 14th Battlegroup to that universe. The same power fluctuations affect the entire fleet(not a momentary Stargate-esqe solar flare/subspace disruption) and send everyone all to the same universe? While we're at it, it's also a soon-to-be invasion force in need of some perspective? Seems like a rather impressive coincidence.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 05, 2010, 08:58:53 pm
Admittedly, the multiverse thing is a little confusing. The entities of the council(or at least the Vishnans, by Bei's log) are supposed to be beyond existing on a normal plane of existence, yet the knowledge from Bei's memories was apparently significantly new information to the Vishnans(shouldn't they know what happens in the other universes?). Yet, also somehow, Samuel Bei apparently had some destiny to be where he was, and had prior 'experience' with the Vishnans(the "ancient voices" from his dreams).

There's a clue to answer this hidden in the campaign. It is tricky and probably requires a working knowledge of relativity.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 05, 2010, 10:48:40 pm
I also assumed Vishnu let the Sanctuary go as he felt Shiva had overstepped his authority/duty in that universe. Perhaps the "balance" to "be restored" was the banishing of Shiva, and/or perhaps releasing the Sanctuary's people from that universe was its own sort of balance/compensation for Shiva's overstepping?
This is the position I find myself holding, too.  At least from where I'm sitting, the Vishnans didn't upset the "Balance" by allowing the Sanctuary to pass through to the other universe, but instead restored it to the way it should have been in the first place.  By engaging the Terrans and Vasudans in the first place, the Shivans overstepped their prescribed roles, and the fate of Samuel's universe would have been the same as the Sanctuary's had the Lucifer not been destroyed.  By throwing the Shivans out of the triumvirate, the Vishnans were apparently declaring the Shivans' previous acts as invalid.  In that context, letting the Sanctuary travel back to GTVA space would be a small measure of recompense for the injustices levied against humanity in that universe.

And regarding the multiverse bit, are you suggesting that all of those seemingly-innocuous FTL subspace jumps finally caught up with poor Samuel? :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 06, 2010, 01:07:16 pm
I wouldn't say the Shivans overstepped their bound with their first attack. After all there was the whole Terran-Vasudan war going on for decades. Without the Shivan intervention the most likely outcome would have been the eradication of one species and all that over a stupid error in translation....

The second Shivan incursion though is another matter. The NTF rebellion (apart from being an internal matter) was something the GTVA was capable of handling themselfs, even though they needed a long time for it. After all they were able to crush the rebels even while they were also busy exploring the nebula and battling the Shivans on a second front.
Quote
you could bring in some of Vishnu's thematic imagery for the Vishnans. Dark blue / stormcloud coloring and patterns, conch, wheel, and lotus shapes could make some truly interesting ships. The current line just doesn't fit the Vishnu/angelic theme as well as the shivan ships fit the Shiva/demonic theme.
Darius didn't make the Ancient/Vishnan models, he just re-used them. As far as I gathered he didn't know how to model back then (though he learned it since then - there was some comment about one of his ships being in WiH if I remember correctly, though I don't know anything more).

Quote
Upon reflection, back-engineering some of the later War in Heaven prose into Age of Aquarius and expanding the dialogue upon arrival in Sol might have improved the final mission.
Since you didn't play through the original release till the end you wouldn't know it, but they did that. The line about the GTVA believing the UEF to be "religious pacifists incapable of selfdefence" or somesuch was only addad with the directors cut. Also Renjians lines were a bit extended ("Desperata Ferro" for one thing wasn't in the original).
In the original Admiral Bei just says that the GTVA send them as an invasion force, but never goes into the reasons why command decided that.

Also there are very good reason why not all of the 14th battlegroup defect (apart form beliefing command point of view. Loyality being one. They all swore an oath to serve the GTVA and it's principles and obey their superious. That's the tricky part. If you swear two things in the same oath, and they come into conflict with each other, which one will you choose to follow?
Another would be, not wanting to fight against your comrades.
While going over to the UEF might seem like the right thing morally, it also means you will have to fight with your former comrades sooner or later. Against people who might beliefe as much as yourself that they do the right thing for the good of Humanity.
It's easy to blast some cruel, faceless enemy beyond Human understanding. It's quite another thing to blast Human beings. Even worse if they are people you know. And even worse, to know that, if not for a twist of fate (or Vishnan intervention) you wouldn't fight against but alongside that pilot you just shoot at.

So it's not really surprising that members of the 14th battlegroup would just do nothing and risk being court martialed rather than defecting.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 06, 2010, 01:29:34 pm
One of the things I'd find really interesting is to see whether people would've had any problem whatsoever firing on the Renjian if they hadn't played the whole campaign.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 06, 2010, 01:39:38 pm
I'll be honest, i know we all originated on that Blue Pearl of a planet, but it would depend onwhether i had family there during the Node collapse. IF my family for instance are all Capellan or Gamma DRaconian at that time... I'd consider myself more GTVA than SOL. 


If however, i was decended from a Pilot who lost all family to the collapse, a Pilot who since married and yadda yadda yadda....  I'd think of myself as out of place.. Lost Generation and all that.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on March 06, 2010, 02:01:17 pm
One of the things I'd find really interesting is to see whether people would've had any problem whatsoever firing on the Renjian if they hadn't played the whole campaign.

Most people wouldn't, I'd think.
I don't see people hesitating to shoot the EA in INFR1, which, if the whole alternate dimension thing didn't happen, would be a pretty similar scenario. You'd just follow your orders cause you would have been briefed about it beforehand.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 06, 2010, 02:19:19 pm
Playing through again, I'm struck by a single random thought:

Did/Will the GTVA explore the Knossos found before Forced Entry?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 06, 2010, 02:23:29 pm
Does it exist in our universe at all? :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 06, 2010, 02:31:05 pm
One of the things I'd find really interesting is to see whether people would've had any problem whatsoever firing on the Renjian if they hadn't played the whole campaign.

If we hadn't had the whole campaign, the Renjian would never have been fired upon. That wasn't The PlanTM, remember?

Instead Command got too attached to its timetable and not enough to reality. People would have probably been freaking about the original plan too (threatening orbital bombardment of Earth is significantly more likely to provoke muntinous behavior than just shooting up the Renjian, IMO), but any GTVA defector's resistance to it would have been meaningless in the plan's context. By the time the UEF could have assimilated any information from defecting forces, had the original plan been followed, the decision would have already been reached.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 06, 2010, 02:37:14 pm
Does it exist in our universe at all? :nervous:
That's a really good question, actually.  You'd think so, since the main branching-off point between the two universes seems to be the success/failure of the mission to destroy the Lucifer.  I'd expect that anything that occurred before then would be the same, including the Knossos.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 06, 2010, 03:00:59 pm
Unless the Shivans or Vishnans put it there.
We only know that the Shivans didn't invent the Knossos portals, but maybe they can build them, but they copy them so perfectly that they look like the ancients build them.
Or more likely the Vishnans put it there to allow the Temeraire and company a way to escape the Shivans and make contact with the closest Vishnan battlegroup.

But if it exists in the main FS2 universe, is it active? And what's hidden behind it? Maybe BP3?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 06, 2010, 03:09:13 pm
One of the things I'd find really interesting is to see whether people would've had any problem whatsoever firing on the Renjian if they hadn't played the whole campaign.

If we hadn't had the whole campaign, the Renjian would never have been fired upon. That wasn't The PlanTM, remember?

Instead Command got too attached to its timetable and not enough to reality. People would have probably been freaking about the original plan too (threatening orbital bombardment of Earth is significantly more likely to provoke muntinous behavior than just shooting up the Renjian, IMO), but any GTVA defector's resistance to it would have been meaningless in the plan's context. By the time the UEF could have assimilated any information from defecting forces, had the original plan been followed, the decision would have already been reached.
Yeah, I know. I've read the dossier. Many times. :P

But I was just thinking how the psychological aspect of actual people playing a video game corresponds to the in-universe characters.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 06, 2010, 04:15:00 pm
True, true. I mean what with the hints of quantum pulse communication between Space Family Bei and the preservers it certainly seems that they could have given themselves that title, but I'm getting the feeling that the long ubership dialogue was Bei-exclusive. Having Vishnu call Shiva, Shiva brings that otherwise external name internal to the triumvirate and seems iffy to me.

But seriously, how come the Vishnans let the Sanctuary leave? It clearly belongs in its own universe and is crewed by folks who have no business being alive in FS1/FS2 verse. Can Shiva file a complaint or something? "Dear Brahma, your preserver droids took pity on some guy and let him take a copy of his dead wife from this universe back to his universe. Love, the shivans PS we miss you"?

Anyhow. I guess I didn't really properly wrap up that extra long ramble: Guys, loved the hell out of BP and I can't wait for more. Been spreading the word around about it and showing it off as best as I can. Here's hoping for a super splendiferous AoA Special Edition sometime down the road with a few more tweaks in addition to War in Heaven and BP3: Son of Blue Planet.



To answer one of your other comments. Where is it shown the Vishnans are technologically 'superior' to the Shivans? The Lucifer rapes the Arbiters quickly, Shivan fighters are more than capable of destroying fighters enmass, and just one Sathanas obliterated the entire Vishnan armada you were a part of by disrupting the Keeper's mental link. That doesn't scream LOL PLOT HAX SPECISE to me.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 06, 2010, 04:17:31 pm
Quote
Shivan fighters are more than capable of destroying fighters enmass

I think we must be playing different campaigns, from this comment.  Vishnan fighters absolutely rape Shivan fighters.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 06, 2010, 04:50:47 pm
But I was just thinking how the psychological aspect of actual people playing a video game corresponds to the in-universe characters.

My point still applies. :P

A lot more players would go "wtf no" I think over the original plan being carried out then the screwup version that actually happened.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2010, 04:55:16 pm
That's probably true, but the pilots of the 14th likely wouldn't have blinked.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 06, 2010, 04:59:09 pm

To answer one of your other comments. Where is it shown the Vishnans are technologically 'superior' to the Shivans? The Lucifer rapes the Arbiters quickly, Shivan fighters are more than capable of destroying fighters enmass, and just one Sathanas obliterated the entire Vishnan armada you were a part of by disrupting the Keeper's mental link. That doesn't scream LOL PLOT HAX SPECISE to me.


That, I think, is the Vishnans' one massive weakness: they are entirely dependent on their Keepers. Kill a Keeper and an entire Vishnan fleet goes dead. The Shivans excel at blowing up capital ships, and applying that talent to Vishnan Keepers levels the playing field quite a bit.

I'm curious, since we never actually saw this happen in BP: how does a single Keeper measure up to a single Sathanas? As in: both of them facing each other, so as to make full use of their forward weapons. Are they evenly matched or is one demonstrably more powerful?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 06, 2010, 05:01:38 pm
That the Shivan fighters are inferiour doesn't mean they have worse technology. The Shivans always put a lot of emphacis on cruisers and capital ships supported by massive numbers of comparetively weak fighters.
To say Shivans out-tech Vishnans is like saying the UEF has better tech than the GTVA, just because they have better fighters.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2010, 05:12:49 pm

To answer one of your other comments. Where is it shown the Vishnans are technologically 'superior' to the Shivans? The Lucifer rapes the Arbiters quickly, Shivan fighters are more than capable of destroying fighters enmass, and just one Sathanas obliterated the entire Vishnan armada you were a part of by disrupting the Keeper's mental link. That doesn't scream LOL PLOT HAX SPECISE to me.


That, I think, is the Vishnans' one massive weakness: they are entirely dependent on their Keepers. Kill a Keeper and an entire Vishnan fleet goes dead. The Shivans excel at blowing up capital ships, and applying that talent to Vishnan Keepers levels the playing field quite a bit.

I'm curious, since we never actually saw this happen in BP: how does a single Keeper measure up to a single Sathanas? As in: both of them facing each other, so as to make full use of their forward weapons. Are they evenly matched or is one demonstrably more powerful?

If both are in primary beam range, the Sath will probably wipe the floor with the Keeper. The Keeper's main beam may outrange the BFReds on the Sath, though.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 06, 2010, 05:18:36 pm
That's probably true, but the pilots of the 14th likely wouldn't have blinked.

The argument seems to basically be "because this is normal and they were briefed" but the prose implies that only key command staff was actually briefed on the plan and the campaign certainly presents it as the pilots being unbriefed. Threatening orbital bombardment is decidedly not normal behavior for a GTVA battlegroup, and considering this Earth we're talking about, I still believe reaction would be as bad or worse below the rank of Captain. That includes all flight ranks.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2010, 05:21:51 pm
Quote
Threatening orbital bombardment is decidedly not normal behavior for a GTVA battlegroup

This wasn't a normal GTVA battlegroup. They were hand-picked for the task, probably in  part due to high Milgram compliance ratings.

Faced with that kind of situation they would have fallen back on their training and obeyed orders. These people were professionals.

They weren't briefed, but whoever made the decision not to brief them did so knowing that it would either not impact their performance or it was irrelevant.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 06, 2010, 05:47:43 pm
Second random question:

What were the SAC 3s in the random cargo depot for in the first mission flying a Vishnan fighter? 
Spoiler:
I got a kick out of the one that said "Why are you so cold?" right after the one that said "Brothers!  Brothers! (somethingorother)"
Also, is it even possible to run down that SFr Dis and read what the one it's carrying says?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2010, 05:56:00 pm
Second random question:

What were the SAC 3s in the random cargo depot for in the first mission flying a Vishnan fighter? 
Spoiler:
I got a kick out of the one that said "Why are you so cold?" right after the one that said "Brothers!  Brothers! (somethingorother)"
Also, is it even possible to run down that SFr Dis and read what the one it's carrying says?

Might want to open up a new thread about this.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 06, 2010, 06:38:17 pm
The second Shivan incursion though is another matter. The NTF rebellion (apart from being an internal matter) was something the GTVA was capable of handling themselfs, even though they needed a long time for it. After all they were able to crush the rebels even while they were also busy exploring the nebula and battling the Shivans on a second front.

The differences between the two incursions are actually utterly fascinating. Powerful as Sathanas are, they do not actually seem to be dedicated battlewagons (see capellan star). The Lucifer, with its utterly unique shield and ample planetary bombardment capability does. During Capella the shivan advance... wasn't really; they seemed to have been content with securing the ever loving hell out of capella to use as a Thingy when they blew it up. The amount of incidental carnage inflicted upon the GTVA was immense but it was relatively contained. The Sathanas fleet didn't really deathmarch throughout the GTVA space though they were more than capable of it. It likely wasn't a premeditated attack - more like the Shivans were busy moving their excessively well armed and large passenger ships through the area.

In the context of the Shivans' job of smashing people who need smashing, they weren't really doing it at the time. Instead they were pretty much buggering off. If any balance should have been restored to the FS1/FS2 verse, it would be somebody bringing the Shivans back in order to perpetrate some neon red harshness on uppity fools. I doubt there was any opposition from the vishnans in the original plan for the shivan Lucifer to take humanity and the vasudans out, but perhaps once they downloaded Samuel's brain decided they'd misjudged humans and were trying to maximize their survival across all universes in order to get more Creatin' in. I guess it depends on exactly what the vishnans are to preserve. A balance between creation and destruction could go either way; either you destroy all humans in one universe and spare as many in the other, or you seek to maximize the survival of humans in general after already destroying them.

Quote
Darius didn't make the Ancient/Vishnan models, he just re-used them. As far as I gathered he didn't know how to model back then (though he learned it since then - there was some comment about one of his ships being in WiH if I remember correctly, though I don't know anything more).

Since you didn't play through the original release till the end you wouldn't know it, but they did that. The line about the GTVA believing the UEF to be "religious pacifists incapable of selfdefence" or somesuch was only addad with the directors cut. Also Renjians lines were a bit extended ("Desperata Ferro" for one thing wasn't in the original).
In the original Admiral Bei just says that the GTVA send them as an invasion force, but never goes into the reasons why command decided that.

Yeah, I know about the models... it was more thoughts for the far distant future when modeling and texturing talent flows like rivers.

I think adding in that dialogue then was a good decision, and support bulking it out further. I think the briefing/after action reports contain a bit too much of the character development and setting details all told, and more could stand to be relayed in mission dialogue. Hell, having a few minutes of Renjian datadumping what the Lost Generation missed after BG14 assumed escort formation and was moving on to Neptune for refueling and repairs or something would have been interesting, especially with a slowly ratcheting sense of tension as both sides express mutual bewilderment and unease. The crew and captain of the Renjian would express horror at the casual brutality with which the GTVA cracked down on the NTF separatists, and the GTVA would express shock at how little the UEF seems worried about the Shivan presence. Even a few red herring lines like the captain of the Renjian and Admiral Bei sharing the images of burnt earth and saying "We swear to work together in a new future to preserve Earth from such a grim fate" or something would have been neat to make the shock of the oncoming war a bit more intense.

Though that would make certain things (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/reunion.html) require rewriting and ... probably in the long run, in light of the inevitable Full Blue Planet Experience isn't necessary. I deeply respect and enjoy the thoughtfulness of that piece and find that the presentation of the final mission in AoA doesn't hint at the depths. A few throwaway lines earlier where Admiral Bei in one of his many private communiques expresses his unease about the crew's morale in the face of longterm exposure to the Shivans would set up Morian's collapse a bit better. Maybe a line from Orestes or Temeraire, or even a wingman saying that they'd picked up a burst of coded transmissions from Renjian, something about clearing up conflicting orders.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2010, 06:42:00 pm
We should steal Avatar and keep him.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 06, 2010, 06:48:22 pm
Yeah, we don't have nearly enough Avatars in our team.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 08, 2010, 12:11:11 pm
Is Morgan Technologies a part of FS canon or an invention? I recall they featured prominently in Derelict and was wondering if there was some greater metauniverse BP takes place in.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 08, 2010, 12:12:54 pm
It's a tip of the hat to Derelict.

There are a few other nods to other campaigns in there.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 08, 2010, 01:47:31 pm
Silent Threat: Reborn gets a bit of a shout-out with the line about Admiral Glaive.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 08, 2010, 01:48:31 pm
I think it's Rybak now.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 08, 2010, 01:49:24 pm
Still an ST:R shoutout.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 08, 2010, 01:53:54 pm
Yeah, Andreas Rybak. Fortune favours the bold.

Can I have my prize now?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 08, 2010, 03:43:46 pm
We'll leave it at someone was mentioned somewhere. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 08, 2010, 11:57:03 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 08, 2010, 11:59:40 pm
You're wrong.

Click 'techroom', click 'credits', watch the credits for a full list.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 09, 2010, 12:00:28 am
I did really like the new Earth background.  Now it looks like you're actually near the planet (in orbit, like they actually say) than several hundred thousand klicks out.  Plus, I think it looked better as a desert than as a lavafield, for the most part.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 09, 2010, 12:34:44 am
Agreed, i'd prefer it not to get smooshed at all. But, what can you do eh? ;)
 
 
Btw were Rian and Battman acting too?
The credits seem to say no so i'm confused. Also I have no real name it appears :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 09, 2010, 12:41:36 am
Of course you don't. You are now, and always will be, Colonol Dekker.

As for Rian, she is credited under her real name. The Batmans voice was used for the role of Sir Not Appearing In This Mod.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 09, 2010, 12:49:12 am
I played a critical role in the voice cast of Age of Aquarius! My talents were employed exactly where required!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on March 09, 2010, 01:38:04 am
The Batmans voice was used for the role of Sir Not Appearing In This Mod.

NI!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 09, 2010, 02:53:08 am
Quote
I'm guessing that Taylor is Rian since it said 'special thanks' to her too at the beginning of a thread in this sub-forum and there aren't many active females in this community
I think the special thanks for here were due to her work in putting together the voice acting, together with General Battuta, rather than due to any single role she did.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 09, 2010, 03:20:03 am
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 09, 2010, 07:29:11 am
I just started another playthrough and when arriving at the cutscene were the Lucifer breaks through Earth' defenses I though the planetkiller theme would fit better.
So I extracted the mission and replaced the music in the events and the mission looks as if it was made for the theme.

The voice of the singer starts exactly as the Orion explodes. Perfect timing!
It makes a great and quite emotional cutscene even better.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 14, 2010, 04:19:15 am
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on March 14, 2010, 04:24:43 am
Is there a reason why beams are not piercing the shields of fighters and bombers in BP? Is it a BP setting or the fact that I am using 3.6.12? Is there a custom flag for making beams pierce their shields? I think I remember that there used to be an option for that in the launcher. I searched for a solution in the wiki too but couldn't find it.
Shouldn't that be a feature included in the feature pack (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68214.0)?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 14, 2010, 04:44:11 am
Yes and it is going away in the next version of 3.6.12 Feature Pack.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 14, 2010, 12:58:32 pm
Oh? I thought that was a necessary balance change. Not true?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 14, 2010, 01:15:05 pm
Necessary is subjective. AAA beams are rather sparingly used in AoA and retail FS2 campaign, so it doesn't make any mission impossible. In addition, AAA beams pierce shields in WiH and mission balance is quite fine. I have however increased AAA beam miss rate for Insane difficulty a bit. So instead of saying the change was necessary, I should have had more faith in player adaptability. They're going to need that in WiH anyway, which is going to be harder than your average FS2 campaign.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 15, 2010, 09:42:02 am
/me tempts fate by poking Fury.

Oh, come on, we've already seen how hard AoA is. How can WiH get any harder without being downright impossible? :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 15, 2010, 09:43:11 am
AoA is hard? :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 15, 2010, 09:46:08 am
AoA is hard? :wtf:
If you're using the modified AI.  I think it's in the black market download (?)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 15, 2010, 09:47:47 am
Hard? Not directors cut default, the original one was balanced just right though.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 15, 2010, 09:54:38 am
Well, not the DC, obviously. That was a cake walk compared to the first form of Forced Entry.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 15, 2010, 10:28:39 am
3.6.12 Feature Pack has been updated, available in the Black Market (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68214.0) topic.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: CaptJosh on March 15, 2010, 12:59:07 pm
I've noticed a spot where there's no voice acting. It's the description for the Aurora in one of the early briefings. Is this an oversight? Or just a case of not worrying about it because the more important parts were dealt with. If the latter, I can always take a screenie and record a voice over for that for you.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 15, 2010, 01:11:03 pm
Nope, we left those kinds of tech descriptions unvoiced because it broke immersion to have an Admiral or Captain narrate that information - pilots would probably look it up in a technical reference.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: CaptJosh on March 15, 2010, 01:12:54 pm
Wasn't thinking of a captain or admiral narrating. Was thinking of a basic non-descript voice for a computer reader like on Star Trek, though I must admit, Majel's voice is hardly nondescript to me.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 15, 2010, 02:40:27 pm
Maybe Fred could use a tickbox to make certain stages readable by sam by default?
 
 
 
:o
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 15, 2010, 02:42:21 pm
I wonder what this is?
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9787/voicenw.th.png) (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/voicenw.png/)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 15, 2010, 02:42:54 pm
Wasn't thinking of a captain or admiral narrating. Was thinking of a basic non-descript voice for a computer reader like on Star Trek, though I must admit, Majel's voice is hardly nondescript to me.

It is a bit annoying if you have TTS enabled and Microsoft Sam suddenly kicks in on that stage.

However, it's not an oversight - we did decide during production to leave those types of stages unvoiced, much like many of the short failure debriefs. I suppose if an awesome enough narration turned up we could patch it in.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 15, 2010, 02:52:52 pm
I wonder what this is?
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9787/voicenw.th.png) (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/voicenw.png/)

 
That's all well and good. . .
 
 
Does anyone fancy making a BP computer voice using speakonia, maybe goldwave to tweak the innotations?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 15, 2010, 07:19:14 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 15, 2010, 07:37:08 pm
No, in WiH you fight as a pilot of the UEF.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 15, 2010, 07:42:36 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 15, 2010, 07:44:12 pm
It's been confirmed from several members of the BP team, as well as at least one video (that Fury AI demo, I think) that the player is a pilot of the UEF.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 15, 2010, 07:59:23 pm
That doesn't seem to be the case when I watched the WiH battle of Neptune trailer.

The Battle of Neptune is not a part of the War in Heaven campaign proper. It's a standalone single mission.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on March 15, 2010, 08:50:04 pm
i was under the assumption we would continue flying as sam.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 15, 2010, 08:52:45 pm
Spoiler:
Would make sense, since Sam jumped ship.

Spoiler tags in the unlikely event someone hasn't gotten that far.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: blowfish on March 15, 2010, 08:54:08 pm
The WiH player character is someone else though.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 15, 2010, 08:56:12 pm
Just finished AoA for the first time.  Really, great job guys!  This is definitely one of the best FS mods I've seen—only STR rivals it for quality.  I'm thoroughly pleased with AoA and can't wait for WiH to come out.  The only mission I had any trouble with was The Great Preservers—the Arbiters wouldn't attack the Moloch after completing their waypoints.  I gave the order to destroy the Moloch before the Arbiters arrived and took out the fighters and bombers myself to pass that one.

Ran really well with no problems... Used the 3.6.12 Inferno build for Linux with the Black Market addon and the advanced textures/effects.  The huge Carina Nebula skybox knocked my framerate down to 30 or so in Preserving the Balance, what with the Ravanas and everything.  The rest of it ran pretty close to the framerate I get with FS2 campaign + mediavps: 70 to 120 throughout the whole thing.

No, in WiH you fight as a pilot of the UEF.
i was under the assumption we would continue flying as sam.
The WiH player character is someone else though.
I take it we won't be playing as Sam Bei, then?  Hope he at least makes an appearance—maybe as squadron leader or something...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 15, 2010, 11:22:24 pm
I take it we won't be playing as Sam Bei, then?  Hope he at least makes an appearance—maybe as squadron leader or something...

I suspect he's more valuable to the UEF in some other capacity.

Unless they're really screwed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 15, 2010, 11:47:06 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on March 16, 2010, 04:41:22 am
That doesn't seem to be the case when I watched the WiH battle of Neptune trailer.
That's because I did up the Battle of Neptune to give the GTVA some kind of face to put with the voice. And I'm also a devout GalTev supporter, as the rest of the team can vouch for.  :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 16, 2010, 07:36:09 am
Well, if the GTVA wins, which seems likely, then I hope the Beis and the Sanctuary stay in one piece, and if the Sanctuary doesn't, then at least its inhabitants survive. Of course this campaign might do something unexpected and make the GTVA lose or even something less expected, and I try to expect the unexpected in life, movies, and games.
Really?  I'm more inclined to think that the UEF would win, seeing as that's who we're fighting for now.  I thought most people expect the player's side to win.  Guess I'm the only one...

Still, some thing unexpected...  Maybe a coup in the GTVA somewhere toward the end of the campaign, just as the UEF is about to be crushed.  :nod:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 16, 2010, 07:42:41 am
Oh, BTW:
Well, if the GTVA wins, which seems likely, then I hope the Beis and the Sanctuary stay in one piece, and if the Sanctuary doesn't, then at least its inhabitants survive.

You seem to assume that those refugees are still on board the Sanctuary by the time WiH starts. That would be wrong. You are also assuming that an old Destroyer, that spent the last 50 years in a nebula and was converted to a giant freighter, would be kept operational. That would be questionable.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 16, 2010, 08:55:34 am
And I'm also a devout GalTev supporter, as the rest of the team can vouch for.  :D

I'm sure that alone is enough to make you worthy of being part of the BP Team.

You know, with all the hype surrounding WiH, I was half-expecting an actual divide to form in the community.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 16, 2010, 09:35:45 am
I was half-expecting an actual divide to form in the community.
It means BP has done something right. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on March 16, 2010, 09:45:24 am
And I'm also a devout GalTev supporter, as the rest of the team can vouch for.  :D
I'm sure that alone is enough to make you worthy of being part of the BP Team.
Sometimes I'm sure the other guys must wonder what on Earth made Darius want to give me a BP badge. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Avatar on March 16, 2010, 04:37:39 pm
And why would anyone assume the player character's faction would win in a Freespace campaign? :D

FS1: The SD Lucifer jumps all over the universe with steel toed boots and Earth just barely avoids getting crisped with a giant space blowtorch.
FS2: The Shivans accidentally the whole Capellan system.

Ummm... hurrah? In fact we should be saying that the UEF being the protagonist's faction in WiH to be a pretty dire forecast for their fortunes indeed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 16, 2010, 06:42:45 pm
And why would anyone assume the player character's faction would win in a Freespace campaign? :D

FS1: The SD Lucifer jumps all over the universe with steel toed boots and Earth just barely avoids getting crisped with a giant space blowtorch.
FS2: The Shivans accidentally the whole Capellan system.

Ummm... hurrah? In fact we should be saying that the UEF being the protagonist's faction in WiH to be a pretty dire forecast for their fortunes indeed.
Yeah, dire forecast, but victory in the end.

FS1: The SD Lucifer is destroyed just before reaching Sol, saving the human race.
FS2: The Shivans are trapped in Capella, saving the human race (again, for now), and we now have the tech to go back to Earth (so long as there're no bugs in the meson reactor).
WiH (my prediction, anyway): Lots of battle and dying on both sides, UEF is about to be dealt a crippling blow, but the player manages to get them through and neutralize the GTVA threat (somehow).
Of course, the emotional impact of the destruction of the UEF by the GTVA could be a powerful device to spawn BPIII with, just like the end of AoA was.  (I've worked for the GTA/GTI/GTVA for fifty years.  How could they turn evil like that?! :eek2:)

Either way, though, I can hardly wait until WiH is finished. :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 16, 2010, 06:48:27 pm
Ticking along smoothly. Very good progress of late.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 16, 2010, 08:44:54 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 18, 2010, 11:57:26 am
I just noticed the Santuary Nameplate has also changed in the directors cut. "For the survival of our race". Nice touch there :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 18, 2010, 03:06:11 pm
Although Blue Planet, miraculously, does not seem to require any patching, we have one on the way with some minor tweaks and fixes and new content for you guys.

Lore junkies will get some new material.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Wobble73 on March 18, 2010, 03:55:06 pm
Although Blue Planet, miraculously, does not seem to require any patching, we have one on the way with some minor tweaks and fixes and new content for you guys.

Lore junkies will get some new material.

Can't wait!  :yes:

Blue Planet: Replay factor ++++
 :cool:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 18, 2010, 04:01:04 pm
It's mostly just tiny tweaks, so you probably won't get any sexy new gameplay out of it. But there will be new tech entries. If you're lazy (and willing to put up with a flood of non-described stuff) you can just ctrl-shift-S them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on March 19, 2010, 02:55:32 pm
Is it just me, or are shields not pierced by beams (at least in the rebalance mod) ?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 19, 2010, 03:07:59 pm
No. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68212.msg1354565#msg1354565)

Read that, and Fury's response to it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 19, 2010, 05:00:41 pm
Does anyone know what happened to the original crew of the Duke? Did they ever recover after being rendered catatonic by the contact with the Vishnans?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 20, 2010, 01:45:57 am
Is it just me, or are shields not pierced by beams (at least in the rebalance mod) ?
Is it just me, or aren't people reading readme's? Both answers are as obvious as the other.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 21, 2010, 11:10:01 am
Core and Visuals 2 packages have been updated. See Release-topic (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68213.msg1356937#msg1356937) for details.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 21, 2010, 11:48:29 am
Quote
Balor has been tweaked.
Tweaked in what way?

Edit: I found a little grammatical error in the Eos tech describtion (or rather a missing word).
Quote
Torpedoes are expected to play an even greater [] in GTVA tactical doctrine in years to come.
Clearly there is supposed to be a "role" were I put the parentheses.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 21, 2010, 08:52:40 pm
No, it's on purpose! The GTVA will use torpedoes to the entire Shivans.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 21, 2010, 09:26:27 pm
I can't wait until the sequel is done so I can it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 21, 2010, 09:27:45 pm
When WiH comes out, I'm going take plenty of screenshots.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on March 22, 2010, 01:12:29 am
Quote
Balor has been tweaked.
Tweaked in what way?
Code: [Select]
$Velocity: 675.0
$Fire Wait: 0.2
$Damage: 16
$Armor Factor: 1.0
$Shield Factor: 1.0
$Subsystem Factor: 0.4
$Lifetime: 1.83
$Energy Consumed: 0.5
...
+Weapon Range: 1125
Wow. Slightly faster velocity than the Kayser now, and boasting a slightly improved range, with a full 1.0 multiplier on hull damage, and a drop of base damage to 16 from 17, with a slight drop in per-shot drain.

Oh, the delicious energy-dakka... :D :drevil:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2010, 02:20:38 am
Edit: I found a little grammatical error in the Eos tech describtion (or rather a missing word).
Quote
Torpedoes are expected to play an even greater [] in GTVA tactical doctrine in years to come.
Clearly there is supposed to be a "role" were I put the parentheses.
we most make an update
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Liberator on March 22, 2010, 03:19:15 am
Oh, the delicious energy-dakka... :D :drevil:
We needz moa dakka!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 22, 2010, 05:48:41 am
Quote
we most make an update
If you don't want people to tell you such things, simply say so. I just though you might want to know....
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2010, 06:04:14 am
I wasn't being sarcastic, I meant what I said. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scotty on March 22, 2010, 06:11:23 am
Oh, woutersmits, your legacy lives on. :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: hansebee on March 22, 2010, 06:33:11 am
superior mod in both design and gameplay ... and a helluvalotta fun  :lol:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 22, 2010, 09:36:14 am
Hey, Fury, do you want to post a separate notice about the patch or somesuch? Just so people know.

For reference, the patch includes - alongside many gameplay and mission tweaks - new techroom entries on the Aeolus, Deimos, Orion, Hecate, Leviathan, Fenris, all Terran fighters and bombers, multiple other Terran ships, the Vishnan primary and secondary weapons, the Fusion Mortar, FighterKiller, and Shivan Cluster, and two new never-before-seen techroom intel entries on the Vishnans. It also includes the complete text of 'The Reunion' and 'Balance of Power'.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2010, 09:38:28 am
Hey, Fury, do you want to post a separate notice about the patch or somesuch? Just so people know.
I don't think it is necessary. Release topic and discussion topic should be enough for a minor update like this.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 22, 2010, 09:39:35 am
If players want to read the new Vishnan entries without re-completing the campaign, ctrl-shift-S on the intel screen will do the trick.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 22, 2010, 04:52:49 pm
Since the little misunderstanding from before has been cleared I have found another something in the Hercules II entry.
Quote
The modernized, hybrid spaceframe offers enhan mounts deep ordinance bays...
Looks like the sentence was changed, but a few fragments of the old one remaind. And it should be ordnance not ordinance.

And the BFBlue shows up in the tech database, but has no entry (at least in my german installation of FS2).

The tech-entry of the Aeolus has me trembling in fear already "rapid response five teams". I wouldn't want to get too close to five Aeoluses at once....
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 22, 2010, 07:09:42 pm
The term "rapid response five" means that these things are on alert to jump out into combat on 5 minutes' notice or less, not that 5 of them would be deployed at once.

Believe me, these things are really bad enough if they are alone, or operating in a pair, five of them would kill every fighter coming at them (probably).

As for beams without entries showing up, that's simply due to the game showing you _every_ weapon, even those that only exist as placeholders.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 23, 2010, 04:13:10 am
But only if you hit crtl+shift+s, right?
I didn't do that. It showed up by itself after finding the escape-pod in earth orbit (maybe it was there before too, didn't check that).
And so far it's the only undescribed weapon unlocked in the Techroom.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on March 25, 2010, 01:47:24 pm
Two errors in Herc2 tech entry were fixed and BFBlue no longer appears in tech room. Both will be in the next update, whenever that is released.

Is that it? Are tech entry goofs all the problems you people can find? Come on, try harder! :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 25, 2010, 03:50:56 pm
What about my little suggestion with the planetkiller theme for the Lucifer cutscene? I really think it's fitting the mood better than the main theme.

And I did just notice a tiny little something. In "Frankenstein's Monster" the demon did some rather odd manouvering after it jumped in, untill it got it's course set for the Duke when I played the mission the first time. First turning up then making a roll, and when it pointed towards the Duke on the X-Y plane it started it's engines, slowly leveling off towards the duke on the z axis as well.... rather hard to describe.
Anyway this also caused the camera angle during the "blue death scene" to be rather odd.

When I tried to replay the mission (twice), it turned completely normal. I have no idea what went wrong and can't reproduce that little glitch....
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rodo on March 27, 2010, 09:09:00 am
What about my little suggestion with the planetkiller theme for the Lucifer cutscene? I really think it's fitting the mood better than the main theme.

And I did just notice a tiny little something. In "Frankenstein's Monster" the demon did some rather odd manouvering after it jumped in, untill it got it's course set for the Duke when I played the mission the first time. First turning up then making a roll, and when it pointed towards the Duke on the X-Y plane it started it's engines, slowly leveling off towards the duke on the z axis as well.... rather hard to describe.
Anyway this also caused the camera angle during the "blue death scene" to be rather odd.

When I tried to replay the mission (twice), it turned completely normal. I have no idea what went wrong and can't reproduce that little glitch....

The Demon probably missed a waypoint, shi* happens.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 27, 2010, 09:12:35 am
Yeah, there are a few things where missions will seemingly glitch on one playthrough and work perfectly on the next. We have no idea what's causing it either.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 27, 2010, 09:37:39 am
...Ghost in the machine...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 27, 2010, 12:10:31 pm
Reminds me of the Phoenicia, which can get destroyed if it gets beamed so hard that its hull skips 4%.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on March 27, 2010, 12:55:37 pm
Reminds me of the Phoenicia, which can get destroyed if it gets beamed so hard that its hull skips 4%.
Oh that's how that works? Heh.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Echelon9 on March 27, 2010, 07:32:13 pm
Yeah, there are a few things where missions will seemingly glitch on one playthrough and work perfectly on the next. We have no idea what's causing it either.
I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that there are a few variables which get set and used during a mission, which are then not reset correctly upon starting again. I know for instance that countermeasure count is not correctly cleaned up in all situations.

I haven't had a chance to look with any great detail at this problem -- but just to let you know it is being worked on.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rodo on March 27, 2010, 10:27:39 pm
You want weird bugs?

Well on my second playthrough of BP using the same pilot I created for the first time (fist time I used Fury's IA mod, the second one was the normal BP:AoA director's cut release) in the series of missions hunting the Duke I got swapped from a Perseus fully loaded to a brand new Erinyes almost empty of secondaries and down to 34% hull, on the second jump I was still on an Erinyes but this time I had more missiles.... odd right?

Proof:

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7049/16380760.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/16380760.jpg/)
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/580/19314266.th.jpg) (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/19314266.jpg/)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8840/28817710.th.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/28817710.jpg/)




I've said nothing because the frikking bug would simply not happen again (I have the felling this is one of those weird bugs that never happen..... Y2K ... )
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 27, 2010, 10:49:28 pm
My suspicion is that red alert missions should just never be used.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 28, 2010, 12:09:46 am
I thought the Red Alert bug was fixed already.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on March 28, 2010, 06:51:38 am
I thought the Red Alert bug was fixed already.
Red alert doesn't just have one bug  :p
Reminds me of the Phoenicia, which can get destroyed if it gets beamed so hard that its hull skips 4%.
That ship always got destroyed for me
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 28, 2010, 08:30:31 am
Well, it never got destroyed on my end, so there you go.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 28, 2010, 02:14:17 pm
You want weird bugs?

Retail version of Casualities of War played on 3.6.9.

In one mission, you'd turn into a Volition Bravos three out of ten times. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 28, 2010, 02:26:52 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 28, 2010, 02:40:32 pm
Difficulty. The higher the difficulty, the more beams will fire at the Phoenicia. If enough beams hit her, she will be pushed to 0 health so fast that the sexp that is supposed to guardian her when she hits 4% health doesn't have time to engage.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on March 28, 2010, 03:13:50 pm
That could probably be a candidate for an FSU tweak, one would think.  Just re-write the SEXP to trigger whenever the Phoenicia's hull falls below 5%, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on March 28, 2010, 03:14:57 pm
It can't be dependent on difficulty alone. The very first time I played FS2 (on very easy) it got destroyed on my end.
And on medium it seems to be a 50/50 chance on my computer.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 28, 2010, 03:17:29 pm
Difficulty is the most deciding factor. On medium, there's a chance she might get away, on lower difficulty she will almost always make it, on higher ones her death is almost guaranteed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 28, 2010, 06:08:52 pm
Difficulty is the most deciding factor. On medium, there's a chance she might get away, on lower difficulty she will almost always make it, on higher once her death is almost guaranteed.

I'm fairly sure the Sath engages with fire-beam as even on Very Easy it will fire all four beams if you're looking its way. People from the coding side have put it down to vagaries of processor speed when asked.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Rodo on March 28, 2010, 06:13:21 pm
Retail version of Casualities of War played on 3.6.9.

In one mission, you'd turn into a Volition Bravos three out of ten times. :P

a Volition Bravos? haha, that must have been a shock the first time.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 28, 2010, 11:31:30 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 29, 2010, 09:21:16 am
Well, to answer your question, Max, you can read this: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Fly_as_a_capital_ship

You can steer it, but since every gun port is a turret, you won't be able to stop it from firing. Then there's the whole turning issue when it comes to large ships...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 29, 2010, 09:28:12 am
The Bravos is actually quite playable, 55m/s top speed, turning's not so great but it has a good rate of roll to let you bring your heavy flaks to bear.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on March 29, 2010, 09:42:36 am
has anyone ever summoned one and killed it?  if so, what did you use and how long did it take?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 29, 2010, 10:23:16 am
has anyone ever summoned one and killed it?  if so, what did you use and how long did it take?

Klaus, you can summon a Bravos in front of a Sathanas and the Shivan Juggernaut won't even be able to grind through 1% of its health even if you gave it an hour.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 29, 2010, 11:08:33 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 29, 2010, 11:30:55 pm
*ahem*

Le topic!

Someone talk more about Blue Planet.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 30, 2010, 12:29:29 am
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 30, 2010, 05:04:45 am
Nope. The Shivans are much, much larger than one Dante.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on March 30, 2010, 06:59:45 am
Which is why the GTVA trying to fight them with hard power is simply idiotic, and the war against the UEF is utterly pointless.

HOWEVER GTVA FTW
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 30, 2010, 08:24:11 am
Which is why the GTVA trying to fight them with hard power is simply idiotic, and the war against the UEF is utterly pointless.

HOWEVER GTVA FTW

Oh, go and makes friends with Dilmah, why don't you. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 30, 2010, 08:30:00 am
Has anyone read the new tech entries?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 30, 2010, 08:35:08 am
Not yet. I haven't had the time to go about patching my copy of BP:AoA:DC.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Qent on March 30, 2010, 09:41:10 am
Quote
the Deimos now serves as the myrmidon of the GTVA
I looked at this for quite a few seconds like :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 30, 2010, 10:15:49 am
Believe it or not, 'myrmidon' means something other than semi-crappy space superiority fighter.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on March 30, 2010, 11:50:00 am
Oh...I just took it to mean the "bread and butter" corvette of the GTVA, like the Myrm was supposed to be, in regards to Space Superiority.

It was amusing to see a fair amount of community sentiment echoed in the fighter/bomber entries(Boanerges).

I like that the Ares became a front-line design, and the Herc II was deemed more of a light assault fighter.

Lokis were sold into private hands instead of being made into target drones(unlike many of the other remaining GW-era fighters).

The Zeus was kept in production for a while as a Trebuchet boat.

Interesting conjecture on the idea that there are curious, seemingly self-imposed 'limiters' on Shivan fighter primaries(rather than handwaving it as 'game balance'). I would imagine it has something to do with the Shivans' assigned duty/service to the Council(also further suggesting that the Shivans may have actually been 'pulling their punches', so to speak, until their expulsion from the Council, with all the applicable menace that might imply if they do come back on their own).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 30, 2010, 01:23:18 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 30, 2010, 01:33:43 pm
Nope. If there's one thing that should be absolutely clear, it's that in our interpretation there is literally no way in hell to beat the Shivans militarily.
Solving the puzzle that is the Shivans will not be done through a well-placed Helios in some exhaust pipe.

Face it, HM, we have our storyline pretty much mapped out, and there is literally nothing that we'd want to add to it. If we wanted, we could keep this going forever, but we feel that it's better to have a set goal that we can work towards, as it allows us to do some dramatic pacing work that otherwise would not be possible.

I will not discount the possibility of later additions to the BP universe, but the story Darius and the rest of the team wants to tell can and will be told in the three chapters we said we would do.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 30, 2010, 02:11:37 pm
We're at about 500 downloads on the MediaFire site.

Let's try to keep this thread clear of BP3 discussion for the moment - I'd like to hear more about the AoA DC for now. Anyone have kind words for specific voice actors? Favorite missions?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 30, 2010, 04:36:02 pm
Nope. If there's one thing that should be absolutely clear, it's that in our interpretation there is literally no way in hell to beat the Shivans militarily.
Solving the puzzle that is the Shivans will not be done through a well-placed Helios in some exhaust pipe.

Face it, HM, we have our storyline pretty much mapped out, and there is literally nothing that we'd want to add to it. If we wanted, we could keep this going forever, but we feel that it's better to have a set goal that we can work towards, as it allows us to do some dramatic pacing work that otherwise would not be possible.

I will not discount the possibility of later additions to the BP universe, but the story Darius and the rest of the team wants to tell can and will be told in the three chapters we said we would do.

That's really interesting you raise that point. And it's certainly a valid interpretation given what the first two games show us of Shivan capabilities. However, I think there should be some reward for players who have been duking it out with the Shivans for many campaigns, only to barely dent their strength.

To use another sci fi example. In Macross there are thousands of Zentradi fleets with millions of ships each. However, the human race, in part due to its bravery, uniqueness and partly due to working with its former enemies (similar to the Terrans and Vasudans) they're able to survive and cope with such insane odds, even though conventional military victory is inpossible.

At the very least, I'd like to see the GTVA hit the Shivans once where it really hurts. Like in the first two games, it may not win the war, but it may save the their races from extinction until another solution is found.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 30, 2010, 05:06:04 pm
All The_E has said is that victory is not likely to be achieved by blowing up every single Shivan ship, or by a daring strike on a 'hive' or 'weak point' for massive damage.

Don't read anything more into it than that.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: OllieG on March 30, 2010, 06:52:45 pm
Quote
Anyone have kind words for specific voice actors? Favorite missions?

Guess it's time to chime in - the directors cut version of this mod is one of the best campaigns I've played in any space-sim, Freespace or not.  It was all about the voice acting.  I played the old BP when it was first released and I liked it just fine (especially music), but the story didn't have the pop it needed because there was no voice.  With voice, the story takes on a life of its own and the campaign is just addictive - I ended up playing at 3am because I had to know what happened.  So thanks to the voice actors, you did a great job (especially the voices of Corey and Taylor, military sci-fi is what FS is all about and you guys got the "sidekick" roles perfect), and I can't wait to experience more of your work in War in Heaven. 

I'm hoping for more of the military sci-fi style in War in Heaven - while the mystical part of BP was interesting, my favorite part of the campaign was the persistent fleet and the way the capital ships worked like a real battle group in combat.  That large scale fleet combat is hard to pull off without BoE, but you guys did it very well, and it provided some of the best FS moments yet.  In that vein, Preserving the Balance was probably the best mission - I like Forced Entry as well, but it's so hard (on Hard difficulty anyway) that I can't really pause and enjoy the battle. 

Can't wait for War in Heaven.  Keep it up guys!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on March 30, 2010, 06:58:07 pm
Thanks very much for that. And I can guarantee that we're definitely going to have a way more MilSF-inspired campaign in WiH.

Including random bits of pilot slang and other assorted milspeak.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kopachris on March 30, 2010, 08:33:17 pm
Really gotta agree here; the voice acting is what made the game for me.  Not flubbing on some obvious details (oxymoron?) such as the weak transmissions from Taylor and Corey from a light year away really helped. :yes:

And to whoever put in the line "And Dragons, ****ing Dragons!": that made my day. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 30, 2010, 10:23:56 pm
Which is why the GTVA trying to fight them with hard power is simply idiotic, and the war against the UEF is utterly pointless.

Considering how things went even when confronted by the Vishans about it, fighting them with soft power is equally pointless!

There is no victory condition hahaha screw you. (this is an awful story then)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 30, 2010, 10:49:03 pm
Oh for goodness sake, you have no reason to believe that's true.

Although a story about how people reacted to inevitable extinction could be pretty awesome.

NGTM-1R did you read the new tech stuff yerself?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 31, 2010, 01:07:53 am
Oh for goodness sake, you have no reason to believe that's true.

Well, yeah, but I've got no reason to believe it's false either. :P The Shivans didn't seem very inclined to listen to reason in AoA and they appear to have reacted in fashion that's really only slightly less hostile than normal with Bosch.

Granted even I think it's pointless to attempt a full-scale war with the Shivans for at least the next hundred years after Capella, possibly ever. But you can probably nibble chunks off them by intelligent deployment of node collapsing-weapons to gain small bits of territory and trap limited numbers of Shivans for a set-piece battle.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on March 31, 2010, 01:09:23 am
I was mostly referring to the crack about there being no victory condition.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 31, 2010, 02:06:47 am
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 31, 2010, 08:10:20 am
We're at about 500 downloads on the MediaFire site.

Let's try to keep this thread clear of BP3 discussion for the moment - I'd like to hear more about the AoA DC for now. Anyone have kind words for specific voice actors? Favorite missions?

I have kind words for all the voice actors, except the one playing the GTT Cyrus: good job, everyone.

After playing the DC, I keep hearing the good Colonol's voice every time I take a shower in the morning.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on March 31, 2010, 10:09:02 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on April 01, 2010, 03:06:59 am
Thanks very much for that. And I can guarantee that we're definitely going to have a way more MilSF-inspired campaign in WiH.

Including random bits of pilot slang and other assorted milspeak.
****in' A.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 01, 2010, 04:02:37 am
I keep hearing the good Colonol's voice every time I take a shower in the morning.

:nervous:
 
I'm not hiding behind the door I promise.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on April 01, 2010, 05:08:27 pm
I have another weird issue to report. In the cutscene at the beginning of Ceremony when the Temeraire comes into view it is alone. Roughly three seconds later the Labouchere pops up, another three seconds after that the Duke follows suit.
They aren't there one moment, then the next moment they are, without the camera moving or anything.

I tested it three times in a row (even restarting FreeSpace) and everytime the same.

Edit: And something almost as weird from Forced Entry. Somehow all the pilots with the exception of Delta one survived till the Ravana arrived. And now Alpha four thinks that's just not right.... Forced entry with only one fighter lost?
And to heroically charges right in front of one of the Temerairs torpedoes. "Noooooooooooo....<bzzzzz>"....
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 02, 2010, 01:28:40 am
It is known code issue where ships pop out and in in cutscenes when camera moves. Never seen it happen when camera is not moving. Either way, it is FSO problem.

As for FE, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 02, 2010, 04:50:00 am
Not a bug, just gameplay.

And yeah, the first bug (that is, the real one) sounds more like one of those "mission plays out differently on a non-fresh pilot" things.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on April 02, 2010, 12:21:29 pm
The thing in forced entry wasn't a bug, just a somewhat funny - if morbid - moment I wanted to share :)

Oh and I think I didn't mention so far, how much I like the new explosion of the vishnan flak. :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on April 09, 2010, 08:36:04 pm
What's the music in the level where you're assaulting the Knossos blockade in N--- from? I recognise it as being from a game, film or series (possibly anime?)

But it's awesome, so I want to know what it is from :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 09, 2010, 08:38:19 pm
Check the credits screen in the Techroom.

For the record, it's an edited version of "Those who fight further", from the Final Fantasy Advent Children soundtrack, adapted for ingame usage.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on April 09, 2010, 08:48:05 pm
Check the credits screen in the Techroom.

For the record, it's an edited version of "Those who fight further", from the Final Fantasy Advent Children soundtrack, adapted for ingame usage.

Yep, I just placed it whilst talking to a friend.

Absolutely awesome.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on April 09, 2010, 09:02:25 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 09, 2010, 09:10:13 pm
No, I think he means placed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on April 10, 2010, 06:43:02 am
No, I think he means placed.

Yep, as in I just figured out where I heard the music before.

Just finished the campaign just now. Absolutely awesome, love the character driven plot (Corey and Taylor rock), and the twists throughout, especially the one at the end (Which I saw as soon as the Admiral stepped down), were great.

Can't wait for War in Heaven, keep up the good work guys.

(War in Heaven and Earth Defence, 2 great fan campaigns coming at some point)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 10, 2010, 11:13:32 am
Bloody outstanding revision, even if Age of Aquarius itself is something I've played over and over again (At least 50 times), definately looking foward to War in Heaven, as I have already for so long.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 10, 2010, 11:19:35 am
Bloody outstanding revision, even if Age of Aquarius itself is something I've played over and over again (At least 50 times), definately looking foward to War in Heaven, as I have already for so long.

Yay!

Fear not. War in Heaven progress is extraordinary right now. We are very lucky.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 10, 2010, 11:21:44 am
Don't lose momentum, for every additional day i have to wait... A kitten will be executed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 10, 2010, 11:34:47 am
Don't lose momentum, for every additional day i have to wait... A kitten will be executed.

Nuke will whack you in the nuts if he sees that. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on April 10, 2010, 12:05:57 pm
Don't lose momentum, for every additional day i have to wait... A kitten will be executed.
You play with it every single day, it's liable to get chafed. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 10, 2010, 12:13:51 pm
Not if it's well lubricate :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on April 10, 2010, 06:11:22 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on April 11, 2010, 10:12:36 am
For some reason I only decided today to go look at the techroom weapon descriptions.

MAJOR props for Battuta for writing descriptions for all those capship turret weapons  :yes: :yes:
I love it.  :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 11, 2010, 10:37:09 am
Yay! Thank you.

Check out the intel entries once you've finished the campaign, too, they've all been either partially or totally rewritten.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 11, 2010, 10:45:43 am
Out of curiousity, do any ships at all from the 14th feature? Or are they all being de-briefed/repaired at the time of WiH?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on April 11, 2010, 10:47:11 am
I think the Solace defected to the UEF so it might appear.

Also the Dook and the Labooshare.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 11, 2010, 10:55:01 am
Well that's dandy! :yes:


I for one would think that all Alliance personell would be (for lack of a better word at this time) detained to provide tactical intel on standard GTVA operational procedures.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on April 11, 2010, 02:38:37 pm
Yay! Thank you.

Check out the intel entries once you've finished the campaign, too, they've all been either partially or totally rewritten.
Reading it right now and noticed something in the Thoth description. Is the capture of the Altair shipyards by the HoL a reference to shrounding the light? (I think I recall that happening in that campaign)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 11, 2010, 02:53:06 pm
Yay! Thank you.

Check out the intel entries once you've finished the campaign, too, they've all been either partially or totally rewritten.
Reading it right now and noticed something in the Thoth description. Is the capture of the Altair shipyards by the HoL a reference to shrounding the light? (I think I recall that happening in that campaign)

Doubtful, most of the Vasudan ships (including the Thoth) still use retail descriptions.  :lol:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Spoon on April 11, 2010, 02:54:53 pm
Yay! Thank you.

Check out the intel entries once you've finished the campaign, too, they've all been either partially or totally rewritten.
Reading it right now and noticed something in the Thoth description. Is the capture of the Altair shipyards by the HoL a reference to shrounding the light? (I think I recall that happening in that campaign)

Doubtful, most of the Vasudan ships (including the Thoth) still use retail descriptions.  :lol:
Never mind me then  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mongoose on April 11, 2010, 02:55:07 pm
Out of curiousity, do any ships at all from the 14th feature? Or are they all being de-briefed/repaired at the time of WiH?
I could see the ships possibly making a repeat appearance, but I sort of feel like they'd probably be more useful to the UEF as a whole in a research/reverse-engineering role.  I'm sure their engineers utterly flipped when they got the chance to study working beam cannons.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 11, 2010, 02:57:50 pm
I was hoping for us loyalists to get a chance to see the Tem-Ore again :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on April 11, 2010, 03:22:40 pm
Yay! Thank you.

Check out the intel entries once you've finished the campaign, too, they've all been either partially or totally rewritten.
Reading it right now and noticed something in the Thoth description. Is the capture of the Altair shipyards by the HoL a reference to shrounding the light? (I think I recall that happening in that campaign)

Doubtful, most of the Vasudan ships (including the Thoth) still use retail descriptions.  :lol:
Never mind me then  :p
Probably more like STL was based off that tech description, if that did indeed happen :P

I was hoping for us loyalists to get a chance to see the Tem-Ore again :yes:

I want to see some Raynors gutting frigate ass.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Marc Torres on April 15, 2010, 09:31:31 am
I realy enjoy this Mod. Great graphical adjustments, great new ship designs, an my favourite; The realy great voice acting. I was realy feeling like a Pilot of the GTVA.

The story was exciting! You added the missing part to FS2, these mysterious part, where you just think: "What the hell? What's going on here? I can't believe it."
The course you have plotted, is one I never thought of. It never came into my mind that the GTVA would invade the Sol-Sector.

I like it very, very much and I am looking forward to "War in Heaven", until then, I keep playing "Age of Aquarius". :)

Best regards from Germany,
Marc.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on April 17, 2010, 07:03:53 am
Thank you for your post Marc Torres, and glad you enjoyed it :D

Mr Battuta has uploaded a copy of the modpack (just the required files only so far) to the moddb page, where you can get them in one big download.

Mod DB Mirror (http://www.moddb.com/mods/blue-planet-war-in-heaven/downloads/blue-planet-age-of-aquarius).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on April 17, 2010, 09:11:29 am
Thank you for your post Marc Torres, and glad you enjoyed it :D

Mr Battuta has uploaded a copy of the modpack (just the required files only so far) to the moddb page, where you can get them in one big download.

Mod DB Mirror (http://www.moddb.com/mods/blue-planet-war-in-heaven/downloads/blue-planet-age-of-aquarius).

Does that mean we can anticipate a release within the next few months? Or am I just being hopelessly optimistic.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 17, 2010, 09:13:25 am
I think it will be more than a few months, but either way the wait will be well worth it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 17, 2010, 09:31:19 am
Thank you for your post Marc Torres, and glad you enjoyed it :D

Mr Battuta has uploaded a copy of the modpack (just the required files only so far) to the moddb page, where you can get them in one big download.

Mod DB Mirror (http://www.moddb.com/mods/blue-planet-war-in-heaven/downloads/blue-planet-age-of-aquarius).

Does that mean we can anticipate a release within the next few months? Or am I just being hopelessly optimistic.

No specifics yet, but don't wander off.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on April 17, 2010, 02:07:27 pm
This has probably been asked before, but right now I'm too tired to search - sorry.
Will WiH and AoA share the same folder, or are they supposed to sit in different folders linked (or not) with a mod.ini?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 17, 2010, 02:13:37 pm
Different folders, linked by mod.ini.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 18, 2010, 07:39:18 am
3.6.12 Feature Pack (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68214.msg1365822#msg1365822) has been updated, I recommend updating if you use previous versions.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 18, 2010, 07:49:53 am
So every pierce effect is off now?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 18, 2010, 07:52:18 am
No, only variance in piercing effects.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.24Piercing_Impact_Variance:
Quote
$Piercing Impact Variance:
FS2 Open, 3.6.11:
Defines the variance added to the particles
Values near 0 cause very little variance and values close to 1 cause extreme dispersal.
Syntax: Float

Basically it controls how much dispersal there is in particles that piercing effect generates. Doesn't look too good unless there's a lot of particles, and even then focused piercing effect usually looks best.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 18, 2010, 07:54:44 am
Ah, okay.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: High Max on April 18, 2010, 03:00:47 pm
;-)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on April 18, 2010, 05:50:04 pm
Someone from the team said that they planed from the start to have one of the Anemoi defect and that the Solace had been chosen. If I remember correctly it was General Battuta who said so.
But I don't remember reading that the Duke or Labouchere defected.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 18, 2010, 06:27:16 pm
High max mis-spelled vessels and I thought the big T was a carrier :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 18, 2010, 06:31:18 pm
Titans do have more fighter storage than other Destroyers.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 18, 2010, 06:33:50 pm
But in BP, there is no "Carrier" designation. The Titan is still a Destroyer.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on April 18, 2010, 06:35:15 pm
Never said it was a Carrier, never said it wasn't a Destroyer.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on April 19, 2010, 05:44:33 am
You mean Duke. I wonder how you managed to mess up the spelling of that one. Also, you can't know which vessles besides the Sanctuary defected. It only says that half of all personnel either defected or resigned from service. It doesn't say what vessels did so. If it does, then where? Is it something separate from the campaign itself and it is the tech database and BP website? It would be better if the Temeraire defected though since it is a destroyer. Losing logistical ships is too bad for the GTVA as well. Maybe that is why the 14th ran out of supplies and had to retreat.
Yes, I meant Duke. Thank you ever so much for correcting me. I love you High Max and I want to have your babies because you're such a helpful person.

And:

Quote from: Balance of Power
Examination of the 14th Battle Group's recorded telemetry immediately put the Security Council into closed emergency session and led to the temporary disappearance of hundreds of analysts and engineering personnel. The full details of what was discovered can still only be speculated at. Squadrons based on the 14th Battle Group (including the 222nd Nightwolves) were dissolved and all surviving crew members were put through rigorous psychological screening. Some of the 14th's ships were no longer available for analysis - the GTC Duke, GTCv Labouchere, and GTL Solace had defected wholesale to the UEF.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on April 19, 2010, 09:32:51 am
StrategyInformer has kindly made available a Mirror location (http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/freespace2/mod/35742.html) for the AoA modpack.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on April 19, 2010, 11:47:27 am
However, their pictures are from WiH...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Thaeris on April 19, 2010, 12:03:52 pm
StrategyInformer has kindly made available a Mirror location (http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/freespace2/mod/35742.html) for the AoA modpack.

 :wtf:

Good Sir, that's great, but can't we get the latest version of BP on FS Mods instead? It's both more conveniant and more organized, if I may say...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 19, 2010, 12:05:08 pm
I tried uploading it there, but for some reasons it kept failing. If you want to try, go ahead.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 19, 2010, 12:06:27 pm
StrategyInformer has kindly made available a Mirror location (http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/freespace2/mod/35742.html) for the AoA modpack.

 :wtf:

Good Sir, that's great, but can't we get the latest version of BP on FS Mods instead? It's both more conveniant and more organized, if I may say...

There's also a ModDB mirror if you missed it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on April 19, 2010, 12:20:31 pm
That doesn't change the fact its not on FS Mods :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 19, 2010, 12:24:01 pm
That doesn't change the fact its not on FS Mods :P

I tried uploading it there, but for some reasons it kept failing. If you want to try, go ahead.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 19, 2010, 12:35:48 pm
While at it and not wanting to study for Friday's exam, I sent a PM to Swantz about it. It would be excellent to get the current version of AoA to freespacemods.net.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 19, 2010, 12:43:25 pm
But can we please keep mirror downloads identical to what is in the release topic? One huge download is pain in the ass to update and you never know if those mirrors are up-to-date.

It already annoys me that both moddb and SI have mirrored single download. :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on April 19, 2010, 01:39:02 pm
I don't see that happening unless the interface of the mirror sites change.
Especially for FSmods, since that would make many more entries and mess up everything (you'd also get people forgetting to download parts) unless the system was designed for that. The way it is now, a single download is easy to find, and separate files mess it up.

At the very least everything that's required should really be bundled just in case some n00b misses one and starts complaining.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on April 27, 2010, 03:10:02 am
Woooo, I'm the Duke.   :D  Have to say, I like what you guys did in post-production. 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on April 27, 2010, 12:04:23 pm
Okay, so when I try to run the director's cut, what's this?  

Error: Could not load in main hall mask 'MainScreen-M'!

(This error most likely means that you are missing required 640x480 interface art.)
File: mainhallmenu.cpp
Line: 1112


Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------


Error: Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL

File: 3ddraw.cpp
Line: 451


Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    fs2_open_3_6_10r-20081210_r4989.exe 0069c3e4()
    fs2_open_3_6_10r-20081210_r4989.exe 0058cc74()
------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 27, 2010, 12:08:07 pm
(This error most likely means that you are missing required 640x480 interface art.)
You are playing with a resolution lower than 1024x768. As a wild guess.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 27, 2010, 12:19:31 pm
Also, this build?
fs2_open_3_6_10r-20081210_r4989.exe ?

It's not 3.6.10 Final. It's not Inferno. Unless you're using .10 Inferno final or later, do not expect any help.

So, grab the 3.6.12 RC2 Inferno build from the SCP board, and run that. While you're at it, please post a debug log generated with the .12 RC2 executable. I'm betting there are even more installation snafus on your system.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on April 27, 2010, 12:47:57 pm
(This error most likely means that you are missing required 640x480 interface art.)
You are playing with a resolution lower than 1024x768. As a wild guess.
Then that's the default; I've never messed with the resolution.  Ah well, I'll load up without the mod and change the res.  Thanks.  
Also, this build?
fs2_open_3_6_10r-20081210_r4989.exe ?

It's not 3.6.10 Final. It's not Inferno. Unless you're using .10 Inferno final or later, do not expect any help.

So, grab the 3.6.12 RC2 Inferno build from the SCP board, and run that. While you're at it, please post a debug log generated with the .12 RC2 executable. I'm betting there are even more installation snafus on your system.
Probably.  My joystick broke some time ago and I haven't played since; I only just managed to get the warranty straightened out so I could get it fixed and start playing again.  Doesn't surprise me that there've been build changes since then.  

Edit:  With the 3.6.12 build, I get this instead: 

Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL

<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! CreateThread + 30 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

When I try to run the debug build, I instead get this: 
Code: [Select]
Assert: bm_bitmaps[bitmapnum].handle == handle
File: bmpman.cpp
Line: 1103

<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! RegisterWaitForInputIdle + 73 bytes
Followed by this: 
Code: [Select]
Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL

<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! RegisterWaitForInputIdle + 73 bytes
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 27, 2010, 02:47:21 pm
Debug log, please. You can find it in your freespace2/data/ directory after running a debug build. It's called 'fs2open log' or somesuch.

Also, you can set the resolution in the launcher; there's no need to set it in-game. What mod you have selected shouldn't matter.

Also! How did you manage to get through the installation instructions without catching all the exhortations to use an Inferno build? Are our instructions that bad?  :( Could it be made clearer?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on April 27, 2010, 03:26:06 pm
Also, you can set the resolution in the launcher; there's no need to set it in-game. What mod you have selected shouldn't matter.

Slightly wrong. There is NO WAY to set the resolution in-game, the Launcher HAS to be used (The 5.5e Launcher mentioned in the .12 RC2 release thread, specifically).

Quote
Also! How did you manage to get through the installation instructions without catching all the exhortations to use an Inferno build? Are our instructions that bad?  :( Could it be made clearer?

No, our instructions are fine. It's just that people think that they can ignore them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 27, 2010, 05:36:15 pm
Be nice!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 27, 2010, 06:24:21 pm
Pew Pew Pew ?
 
What's all that then?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on April 27, 2010, 10:53:24 pm
Debug log, please. You can find it in your freespace2/data/ directory after running a debug build. It's called 'fs2open log' or somesuch.
You mean this thing? 
Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 15
  -ogl_spec 20
  -spec_static 1.5
  -spec_point 1.2
  -spec_tube 1.5
  -ambient_factor 35
  -env
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -spec
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -3dwarp
  -warp_flash
  -mod blueplanet,mediavps
Building file index...
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x5eebfd21
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x30ee5a34
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x39f81ddc
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_adveffects.vp' with a checksum of 0x55caf318
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xe22bdcc2
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_models.vp' with a checksum of 0x20b9069a
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0x08a62d20
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_adveffects.vp' with a checksum of 0xfeb54970
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0xb8c5d655
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Core.vp' with a checksum of 0x0a0213e0
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xb2296226
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_models.vp' with a checksum of 0x2f8a711a
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_music.vp' with a checksum of 0xbbd92e16
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_textures.vp' with a checksum of 0x2c43a80e
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' with a checksum of 0x84396e99
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\multi-voice-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0xd50e7442
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 373 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1440 files
Searching root 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\' ... 128 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_adveffects.vp' ... 2063 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_effects.vp' ... 91 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mp-710_models.vp' ... 31 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 2610 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_adveffects.vp' ... 299 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1867 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Core.vp' ... 139 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1032 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_models.vp' ... 399 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\mediavps\mv_textures.vp' ... 1526 files
Searching root 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\' ... 18 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\multi-voice-pack.vp' ... 307 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Program Files\Freespace 2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Searching root 'e:\' ... 0 files
Found 32 roots and 20243 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_strings-lcl.tbm' ...
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 640x480 with 16-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 5, G: 6, B: 5, depth: 16, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 7300 LE/PCI/SSE2
  OpenGL Version    : 2.0.3

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  null-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / null-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  b-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / b-f.sdr (b-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  b-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / bg-f.sdr (bg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lb-f.sdr (lb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lbg-f.sdr (lbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lbgs-f.sdr (lbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lbs-f.sdr (lbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  le-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / lbgse-f.sdr (lbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  le-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / lbse-f.sdr (lbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lbgn-f.sdr (lbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lbgsn-f.sdr (lbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lbn-f.sdr (lbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lbsn-f.sdr (lbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lne-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / lbgsne-f.sdr (lbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lne-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / lbsne-f.sdr (lbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lf-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / lfb-f.sdr (lfb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lf-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / lfbg-f.sdr (lfbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lf-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / lfbgs-f.sdr (lfbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lf-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / lfbs-f.sdr (lfbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfe-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / lfbgse-f.sdr (lfbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfe-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / lfbse-f.sdr (lfbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfn-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / lfbgn-f.sdr (lfbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfn-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / lfbgsn-f.sdr (lfbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfn-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / lfbn-f.sdr (lfbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfn-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / lfbsn-f.sdr (lfbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfne-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / lfbgsne-f.sdr (lfbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lfne-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / lfbsne-f.sdr (lfbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / null-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lg-f.sdr (lg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / lgs-f.sdr (lgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  l-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / ls-f.sdr (ls-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  le-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / lgse-f.sdr (lgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  le-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / lse-f.sdr (lse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lgn-f.sdr (lgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lgsn-f.sdr (lgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / ln-f.sdr (ln-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  ln-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / lsn-f.sdr (lsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lne-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / lgsne-f.sdr (lgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  lne-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / lsne-f.sdr (lsne-f.sdr) ...
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 4 (16)
  Max elements vertices: 4096
  Max elements indices: 4096
  Max texture size: 4096x4096
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 1.10 NVIDIA via Cg 1.3 compiler
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-exp-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI radar1 with size 130x106 (17.2% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 1
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_advmuzzle-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-wxp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 64 frames at 35 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp04.eff) with 60 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Maxim_Impact.eff) with 23 frames at 30 fps.
ANI Lamprey_Impact with size 80x80 (37.5% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Gmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (PWmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Rmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Bmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp_merc.eff) with 15 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shockwave02.eff) with 29 frames at 30 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_tech-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_models-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_shockwave-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_missiles-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Shockwave01.eff) with 94 frames at 61 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_textures-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_trails-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_tech-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_dragon-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_models-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_shockwave-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_escort-hdg.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-str.tbm' ...
loading animated cursor "cursor"
Ships.tbl is : VALID
Weapons.tbl is : VALID
cfile_init() took 666
Got event GS_EVENT_GAME_INIT (49) in state NOT A VALID STATE (0)
Got event GS_EVENT_MAIN_MENU (0) in state GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT (37)
ASSERTION: "bm_bitmaps[bitmapnum].handle == handle" at bmpman.cpp:1103
Int3(): From g:\fso\fs2_rc2_export\code\globalincs\windebug.cpp at line 902

I also have a bone to pick with the SCP build in general (it spews errors at me when I start the 5.5e launcher; I upgraded from 5.5d at the same time I got the 3.6.12 Inferno build), but I'll do that over in the SCP forum. 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 27, 2010, 11:02:40 pm
It shouldn't be spewing errors - trust me, I've tested that build with that launcher. There's got to be something going wrong.

As for the log (nice work, by the way), your MediaVPs are a mess. You're mixing the 3.6.7 MVPs with the 3.6.10 ones. Please delete all the VPs in your MediaVPs folder that aren't capitalized, including all the mp-710 ones. You should be left with MV_Advanced, MV_Assets, MV_Core, and MV_Effects. You can keep mv_music as well. Everything else needs to go - it's crashing your game.

Let me know if that fixes it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 27, 2010, 11:58:34 pm
The 3.6.10 mediavps Renegade Paladin has, are all outdated as well. None of the checksums match and he doesn't have the 3.6.10 patch either.

What I would suggest to do is to deleted the mediavps folder entirely and follow mediavps installation instructions.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=65038.0

Edit: Renegade Paladin's "Windows - No Disk" error has been split and moved to http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=69279.0
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on April 28, 2010, 12:55:03 am
I now have the new VPs and the patch.  It still crashed, but then I changed the resolution and it started working.  It's worth noting, I think, that this only ever happened with the latest Blue Planet release. 

Now I just need to wait for my X52 stick/throttle to get fixed or replaced, because playing on an old Cyborg Evo stick with a broken trigger is no fun.   :lol:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2010, 12:57:45 am
I now have the new VPs and the patch.  It still crashed, but then I changed the resolution and it started working.  It's worth noting, I think, that this only ever happened with the latest Blue Planet release. 

Now I just need to wait for my X52 stick/throttle to get fixed or replaced, because playing on an old Cyborg Evo stick with a broken trigger is no fun.   :lol:

You need to run with a minimum resolution of 1024x768 for now, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on April 28, 2010, 02:03:07 am
Resolution bug was fixed exactly three weeks ago. But we haven't released the fix yet.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: DOCTOR DOOM!!! on May 23, 2010, 08:20:14 am
The following species are missing flyby sounds in sounds.tbl:
UEF

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12d_INF_RC2.exe! <no symbol>
kernel32.dll! BaseThreadInitThunk + 18 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 99 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 54 bytes

Help!!!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on May 23, 2010, 08:23:15 am
Dude, are you running a debug build?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on May 23, 2010, 08:40:08 am
And if you are, can we see the fs2_open.log it generated?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: DOCTOR DOOM!!! on May 23, 2010, 09:22:56 am
^,^^ Never mind! I fixed it i think...  Didn't delete the old blueplanet vp... and now I feel like a retard!  :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on May 24, 2010, 04:16:18 am
Don't, we all make mistakes. :)

And I may have made a similar mistake to yours at one stage.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: PeterX on May 25, 2010, 05:33:13 am
Hi,
I´d use the 3.6.12r.exe and Launcher 5.5c inclusive all MVP´s 3.6.10 and the 3.6.12 featurepatch. :cool:
If i´m not using "Disable parsing errors" in troubleshootmenu then i´ve the same errors.  :mad:
If i use it then the mod starts normal,but the last mission is missing 1 shipclass(UTF-ship)   :) and can play the campaign.
Peter
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on May 25, 2010, 05:41:10 am
G'day mate,

Are you using an Inferno build? If not, try these. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68190.0)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on May 25, 2010, 05:43:18 am
Hi,
I´d use the 3.6.12r.exe and Launcher 5.5c inclusive all MVP´s 3.6.10 and the 3.6.12 featurepatch. :cool:
If i´m not using "Disable parsing errors" in troubleshootmenu then i´ve the same errors.  :mad:
If i use it then the mod starts normal,but the last mission is missing 1 shipclass(UTF-ship)   :) and can play the campaign.
Peter

What. One: You need to use the 3.6.12 Inferno builds.
Two: You need to use the 5.5e Launcher.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Cobra on May 25, 2010, 12:53:36 pm
If i´m not using "Disable parsing errors" in troubleshootmenu then i´ve the same errors.  :mad:

Aren't we supposed to leave that on unless we're absolutely, ABSOLUTELY sure that the errors present are benign? Or just leave it on so we don't break the game period?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on May 25, 2010, 01:42:51 pm
Unless you are really, really, absolutely 100% sure about what you are doing, you should never, EVER enable that option. Enabling it defeats basically the entire purpose of using a debug build in the first place.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Brancerius on May 31, 2010, 06:42:51 pm
Dear BP peoples.

You are awesome. I will be sending women to you as payment for this wonderful mod.

Sincerely,
Brancer
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on May 31, 2010, 06:44:08 pm
Tell us about how your lady friend loved it, Brancer!

Details!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: SajidaKajada on May 31, 2010, 07:14:09 pm
Dear BP peoples.

You are awesome. I will be sending women to you as payment for this wonderful mod.

Sincerely,
Brancer


I am the payment *bows* & another BP fangurl convert courtesy of Mr Brancer here  :D

I have to say BP blew my socks away after playing through Freespace 2 then getting straight into the mod.

The storyline just captured me right off from the beginning, I hardly know where to begin! I'd say one of the more memorable missions you play through where the Orestes dies its face then you find out its all Sam's dream. My heart literally dropped out of my chest. From that moment on you just want to see & play more.

The adding in of the Vishnan's was just awesome. First contact missions had me hooked to learn more about them.

At the end I must confess I teared up and cried a little, after all the BS you find out that all you fought for was in vain.....I am shocked Sam didn't off himself right then and there lol but then again he's not that kinda guy. I'd be so pissed personally enough to cut myself but thats it  :ick:  Nevertheless it was super heartbreaking  :(

Visually the game is stunning, and the music! Good grief I gotta download that soundtrack or rip it from somewhere, I just can't get enough of it. It was way cooler than the FS2 music and complimented the game so amazingly.

Kudos to everyone that made this mod, it has to be one of the best i've ever played for a fighter game. I had no idea there was such a massive Freespace following till Brancer showed me. It's cool to know that amazing games like this never die along with the fans!


Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: bigchunk1 on June 01, 2010, 12:04:36 am
Recently played Blue Planet. I installed everything down to the advanced visual unlocks.

Spoiler:

Even in the first mission I was convinced that this was going to be a high quality treat. Starting just outside the Orestes and her super detailed turrets and shaded edges followed by that amazing Skybox background which is almost as good as the looking at the real thing, I got that giddy chill one gets when one thinks to oneself “the next few hours of your life are going to be good”.
 
The presentation in the first few missions was very good as well. I did not feel ‘thrown into’ the story and most everything was well explained. The messages were carefully crafted and all written work; down to the mission debriefings were clear and full of interesting information.

The original music was professionally done and I was surprised how well it fit the mood I was in at any given moment in the campaign. In addition, I thought to myself how some of its music would stand pretty well on its own.
 
Voice acting was very good. I could not get enough of certain characters such as Al’Faddil and I also think I heard the GTD Agamemnon’s command brief master from the campaign “cardinal spear” as GTVA high command in the last mission.
  
As I started to get into the later missions I found myself actually caring about Cory, Taylor and the rest of the fleet. In the final combat mission I wanted to make sure every ship survived the engagement. It was interesting to see the theme of friendship and trust play through this campaign only to find out that the GTVA was planning on betraying whatever government they happened to find at Sol.
Interesting to note that there were no Vasudans in the expedition, I think it was intended that this campaign have a ‘human’ feel with themes of kinship and emotion. Perhaps the Vasudans would have made things complicated. Also perhaps the Vasudans felt like it was not their place to be ambassadors to Sol which makes sense.

While the campaign delivered an entertaining atmosphere, an engaging story, deep characters and larger than life visual effects, I grew weary hearing phrases such as “we need you to destroy the forward beam cannons on that Shivan warship”. Without sugar coating what I am about to say, the variety of things the player is expected to do in the campaign is low; escort warships and chase down turrets. I think this campaign's goal is to provide an immersive experience for the player and was less focused on giving Alpha 1 gameplay variety. It’s not a bad direction to go in, the missions do a good job embodying massive and tense battle scenes and everything flows smoothly. Gameplay campaigns such as PI for example I think are exclusively for veteran Freespace pilots looking for a new challenge. (I died a lot trying to get through PI.) Props to Procyon Insurgency though even though it made me shout at my computer a number of times. 15 out of 15 turrets just in time, and then the Saturn collides with my ship and kills me as it warps out!

At any rate, I don’t want to understate how much I enjoyed this campaign. It was a wildly entertaining ride that kept me at the edge of my seat. With all the in-mission messages flying back and forth and the interlaced web of story elements slowly unfolding itself on a minute by minute basis, there was rarely a time where I was not 100% hooked. I imagine that the missions were well tested because they appeared very polished and were filled with ‘purpose’.
 
I really enjoyed Mission number 10 “Forced Entry” and was intrigued by all of the friendly ships coming one at a time, each with an individual personality, situation, and system of defense. I thought of it as the ‘get to know the fleet’ mission. Perhaps it was good that I enjoyed this mission, because I ended up having to replay it several times due to losing the GTC Duke, death by beam fire and death by torpedo explosions. For the torpedoes, It took me two missions to figure out what was killing me. I learned to like the idea of capital ship based torpedoes once I learned to stay away from the impact zone.

  However, what got my stomach to twist more than anything else is the nature and background behind the Vishnans. They have somewhat of a religious air about them and carry with them the implication that they are at the end of discovery, the source of all the answers. Also the Shivans are labeled with a motive, connected to finding some Brahman or ‘worthy’ race. I would interject a soft criticism and say that one of the things that I like about the Freespace universe is that some, or perhaps many, things are not explained to keep the player in a state of wonder; to always give the idea that there is something more to what is happening and perhaps the ‘answer’ might be in the next mission. The Vishnans have all the answers and if they were to become the centerpiece of the campaign, I feel things would have gone south. I chuckled when hearing that the Shivans and the Vishnans were going to debate each other in some kind of ‘parliament of the universe’. It reminded me of “Space Odyssey 2010” when the movie explains the motives behind the monoliths. Perhaps there is a profound implication that even the fabric of the universe is not above democracy, but it’s a bit shocking to try and swallow. Fortunately for me, Blue Planet is not all about Vishnans and the main purpose of finding Sol came back into realization in the last few missions.

Later in the campaign after hearing about the GTVA betrayal, the addition of the Vishnans makes a bit more sense because it shows that the Shivans may have been right in saying humans know nothing but to cause war and destroy rather than create. I felt moved by this realization and more sympathetic to the cause of Earth as a result. Perhaps that was the intent. Another part of me would prefer the Shivans to remain an unknown adversary.
 
I can’t think of any reason why Vishnan ships are re-textured ancient models other than the obvious that the models are expertly made and featuring them in this campaign makes good use of the work. Seems sensible, but I just feel like it is worth pointing out, especially with the campaign Ancient-Shivan war in the works. The only story explanations I could think to explain this are that the Vishnans ‘copied’ the Ancients’ designs as they formed their will into reality. What seems less likely is that the Ancients ‘copied’ Vishnan ships or are a descendant of the Vishnans. Or perhaps the Ancients evolved into the Vishnans instead of being annihilated by the Shivans, but hey we can speculate all day.

The GTD Titan, GTD Raynor, GTCv Chimera, and GTC Hyperion classes are all really nice looking ships. I nodded to myself when Captain Iwakura said that the ships were “as beautiful as they are powerful”. Looking forward to the nature of the United Earth Federation’s ship designs. I was impressed with the UEFg Karuna design. It seems to have a non-traditional fighting style by going in close and attacking with warheads like some kind of long range massive ordinance bomber. Perhaps these are the intended tactics of a new ‘frigate’ class.
    
I think I will be agreeing with most people in saying that the Balor primary weapon is very fun to use. Easy to target with fast paced action all rolled into one. It gets the blood going to see a Shivan fighter fly past and get ripped to shreds by fast paced rapid fire goodness. I think this is what Volition was going for with the Subach HL-7.


Overall, very nice campaign. It consumed the latter half of my weekend and has gotten me to anticipate the next release from the BP team. I get the feeling that everything in the campaign has been thoroughly tested and thought through to produce something well polished and solid. Also I am impressed how all the elements, story, gameplay, etc.  flowed together and acted as a single unit. Truly a professional undertaking. Thanks for making my weekend BP team!

EDIT: fixed use of spoiler cover (thanks to Jeff Vader) 
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on June 01, 2010, 12:15:02 am
First of all, thanks for the feedback. Always nice to see something like this.

Quote
I can’t think of any reason why Vishnan ships are re-textured ancient models other than the obvious that the models are expertly made and featuring them in this campaign makes good use of the work. Seems sensible, but I just feel like it is worth pointing out, especially with the campaign Ancient-Shivan war in the works. The only story explanations I could think to explain this are that the Vishnans ‘copied’ the Ancients’ designs as they formed their will into reality. What seems less likely is that the Ancients ‘copied’ Vishnan ships or are a descendant of the Vishnans. Or perhaps the Ancients evolved into the Vishnans instead of being annihilated by the Shivans, but hey we can speculate all day.

ASW and Blue Planet do not play in the same continuity. We don't know what the Ancient's ships looked like in BP, but they certainly didn't look like the Vishnan vessels. The Vishnans and Ancients are not related.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on June 01, 2010, 01:02:27 am
You may be shocked to hear this, but Blue Planet actually doesn't use a single custom ship. BP is an example of what you can do entirely with freely available assets! (I believe the internal adage in the team is 'it's better to use a ship well than to use it exclusively' or...something like that. I guess it's more of an unwritten mantra.)

And in fact the original BP campaign was entirely done by one man, at that.

This all ties in to the reason that the Vishnans use Ancient ship models - the Ancient ships are originally from Inferno R1's big modeldump, and since they were an internally consistent new faction, I believe Darius used them for Vishnans because nothing better was available. When BP originally came out, Ancient-Shivan War hadn't even been announced, but we've worked with those guys since then - they gave us HTL Vishnan models and we helped them fix a big bug with some of their models.

I do agree about the mission objective variety. We try to mix it up a wee bit in War in Heaven, though it'll be up to you to decide how succcessful we were.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on June 01, 2010, 07:28:34 am
Sure BP doesn't have that great a variety in objectives, but because of the atmosphere and different situations it doesn't feel like you keep doing the same all the time (at least for me it didn't).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 01, 2010, 08:20:45 am
BP is an example of what you can do entirely with freely available assets! (I believe the internal adage in the team is 'it's better to use a ship well than to use it exclusively' or...something like that. I guess it's more of an unwritten mantra.)

To add on to what Battuta has said, the "new" ships in BP are taken from various places. You already know where the Vishnan ones came from.

The Kulas was originally a pirate fighter from Meditations of the Abyss Chapter 1, the Aurora is also used in Casualties of War, and the Dante is from Nukemod: Children of Shiva. Most of the new GTVA warships come from StratComm's Fleet Pack.

Expect to see even more diversity in WiH ... but you should already be expecting that from the UEF, since you've only seen one of their ships. ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on June 01, 2010, 09:23:05 am
The Kulas was originally a pirate fighter from Meditations of the Abyss Chapter 1,

Actually, wrong, I think - I believe MotA came out well after BP. The Kulas is a model by Aldo for goodness knows what.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on June 01, 2010, 12:26:10 pm
Probably one of his old projects.
Reciprocity? Lost Souls?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on June 01, 2010, 12:52:35 pm
Definitely not Lost Souls. It's a generation before that. Lost Souls had high-poly models.

It's either from sometime around Reciprocity and Casualties of War.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on June 01, 2010, 10:40:36 pm
Kulas and Aurora were either FSMods or Hades Combine downloads...I haven't played any campaigns that use the fighters.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Droid803 on June 01, 2010, 11:52:29 pm
The Aurora is definitely in Casualties of War.
It probably made it to FSMods/Hades Combine some time after it was released.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snail on June 02, 2010, 06:58:38 am
If it's help, the Kulas and Baranec (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/PTCv_Baranec) came as a pair, both are named after Volition employees.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 02, 2010, 08:05:53 am
The Baranec has idiot hair. :wtf:
 /me checks the FSMods download page.

Hmm ... it says here that there's a 3.6.10-compatible model in the Twist of Fate demo...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on June 02, 2010, 05:52:43 pm
The Baranec has idiot hair. :wtf:
 /me checks the FSMods download page.

Hmm ... it says here that there's a 3.6.10-compatible model in the Twist of Fate demo...

There is, though it's a Terran mining ship in it.

I've got the Twist of Fate demo for the Terran probe, and maybe the GTF Angel, as well.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 11, 2010, 04:35:24 pm
The Terran Probe and Angel are now in the main FSPort release, and the ToF demo is made for an older version of FSPort.

The mining ship (GTMn Hephaestus) I used the Baranec for is probably the single most  helpless large ship in all of FreeSpace. :lol:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 12, 2010, 03:19:55 am
Well, you can't expect much from a corvette with only ten blob turrets...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 12, 2010, 11:06:45 am
The Hephaestus wishes it had blob turrets. Instead, it's got weapons that are even weaker (20 dps) than the ML-16! By 2335, the ship is around 100 years old.

Also, blob turrets are no laughing matter in Twist of Fate's early missions. First of all, you've got no shields, and second, I've bumped their speed to 600 m/s.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on June 28, 2010, 12:29:19 am
We just made a rough calculation of how many BP: AoA DC downloads there has been from our known download locations. Download figures aren't all that trustworthy as often cancelled downloads are counted too, but nevertheless, in just four months AoA has seen about 1500 downloads give or take a few hundred.

On behalf of rest of the staffers, you have our thanks. :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on June 28, 2010, 04:06:30 am
I'm only in that number once. No problem with the download what-so-ever.
And congratulations :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Tarond on July 05, 2010, 04:00:44 pm
I have a problem with the mod.

I think i have done every step which are written in the release-thread and i become these error after i start the campaign.

Rotation without rotation axis defined on submodel 'detail-2' of model 'science01.pof'!
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! RegisterWaitForInputIdle + 73 bytes

Now i haven't any idea how i can solve this problem.

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on July 05, 2010, 04:04:15 pm
It's not an error, but rather a model issue in the mediavps. You can ignore it safely. Just click through it, and enjoy BP.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Tarond on July 05, 2010, 04:21:32 pm
Thank you for your help but that doesn't works.

If i get this warning i have 3 options.

1. Running the debugger
2. Continue without debugging In this case FS2 stops and i have to close it with the task manager
3. Quit  freespace

Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 05, 2010, 04:22:49 pm
You're running a debug build. Try running a non-debug build.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on July 05, 2010, 04:23:01 pm
You'll only get the issue if you are running with a debug build. Go to the launcher and select the version of the build you're using that DOESN'T end in -d or -debug. Instead, pick one with an -r or -release.

It's an error in something not related to Blue Planet.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 05, 2010, 04:24:20 pm
For example, fs2_open_3_6_12_RC3r_INF_SSE2 instead of fs2_open_3_6_12_RC3d_INF_SSE2.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Tarond on July 05, 2010, 05:42:22 pm
Thank you.

Nowi can enjoy the game :D
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Zapp on July 07, 2010, 10:33:23 am
Absolutely stunning.

I just finished the version with the 3.6.12 features package, and I had to do it in almost one session, because I just couldn't stop myself from playing the next mission :)

The plot, the twists, the AI, the models, the voice acting, the gliding, the music, the assignments, the ending and all the stuff in between?
Awesome.
Thank you very much for that!

Now I want more! :sigh:

Since this was my first fan-campaign ever, I am really excited to see if the ones to come can keep up with that.

Farewell... until War In Heaven is ready  ;7

Zapp
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Tarond on July 08, 2010, 10:40:50 pm
Since I play blueplanet my Musik and Sound sometimes don't work.

Or better it doesn't works now everytime i play any mod with mediavps.

Did anybody have an idea how I can fix this problem?

thanks
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 11:44:00 pm
Since I play blueplanet my Musik and Sound sometimes don't work.

Or better it doesn't works now everytime i play any mod with mediavps.

Did anybody have an idea how I can fix this problem?

thanks

Whoa, that's pretty weird. Could we get an fs2open log?

If you don't know how to generate one, read the FAQ in the troubleshooting forum.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on July 09, 2010, 02:01:25 am
Did you try to re-download the mv_music.vp file? If that doesn't help, you really should do as Battuta suggested. If it isn't a corrupted file, then something is wrong with your installation I think.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: fightermedic on July 11, 2010, 05:25:09 pm
i just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this great campaign
especially the femal voice actors that did an outstanding job which in that quality i have seldom heard bevore
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2010, 05:27:34 pm
i just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this great campaign
especially the femal voice actors that did an outstanding job which in that quality i have seldom heard bevore

Absolutely stunning.

I just finished the version with the 3.6.12 features package, and I had to do it in almost one session, because I just couldn't stop myself from playing the next mission :)

The plot, the twists, the AI, the models, the voice acting, the gliding, the music, the assignments, the ending and all the stuff in between?
Awesome.
Thank you very much for that!

Now I want more! :sigh:

Since this was my first fan-campaign ever, I am really excited to see if the ones to come can keep up with that.

Farewell... until War In Heaven is ready  ;7

Zapp

Really glad you guys enjoyed it. Thank you!
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on August 06, 2010, 11:59:32 pm
New update to Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Directors Cut has been released (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68213.msg1399056#msg1399056)

This upgrade brings following important changes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 07, 2010, 03:40:09 am
Question on new update:  what exactly updated files should I have?  from the linked thread, I gathered that I needed to re-download BP altogether.  I did that, deleting my old blueplanet and blueplanet_3612 folders.  I used the strategy informer link in the first post, the modDB one hasn't verified yet or something.  When it was all done, I checked the mod.ini and it still points to mediavps, not mediavps_3612.  I take this to mean I still don't have the latest update, since it says 3.6.12 MPVs required.  Also currently downloading the advanced visuals, it didn't seem to be included in the Strategy Informer 7z file.

EDIT: ok nevermind, I saw the part about new core and visuals 1 and 2 files now.  The individual core file in the post links to .12.  So download those three and I am done right?  (adv_core is already gone)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 03:55:29 am
Goddammit, I thought I had removed the Strategy Informer link. This mirror is out of date. Post edited and Strategy Informer link now removed.

ModDB mirror is up-to-date but the newest upload is undergoing authorization and not yet available. So use the two primary download mirrors, aka mediafire and fsmods links. Please download Core, Visual 1 and Visual 2 from these two links.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:41:52 am
I'll contact StrategyInformer as soon as the ModDB upload is ready.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 07, 2010, 03:13:20 pm
Maybe a note above the "delete old versions" inscruction would be good that this step is for getting the Director's Cut, and not needed if you're just updating to 3.6.12
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 03:33:51 pm
I got rid of the upgrade bit entirely. At this point encountering ancient versions of AoA is becoming more unlikely. And you're right, the upgrade bit could be confusing right now.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 08, 2010, 11:38:13 am
I found two out-takes from the blackbnox playback mission.
Most likely contains swearing :nervous:

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2010, 02:28:25 pm
replaying AoA:DC but I'm barely getting any of the voiceacting or soundeffects (guns missiles, etc).
has there since been any solution to that problem (I've seen that others encountered it too)?
It seems to be plagueing my FS installation :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on August 25, 2010, 02:42:37 pm
*Sigh*

Please post an fs2_open.log.....
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2010, 03:01:42 pm
*Sigh*

Please post an fs2_open.log.....

no need to sigh :(
I don't live on HLP no more -not since the end of nodewars in 2001- so I'm no longer up-to-date with all the new stuff. I'm not even up-to-date with all the not so new stuff :-|

soit, here goes:
the log should be in the attachment, I hope it's done correctly. I'm sure it'll end up being something silly not even related to BP. Would be typically me.
OS is window XP
CPU is Intel Pentium 4 640
Memory is DDR, 3 gigs.
Graphics is a Radeon HD 5750




[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 25, 2010, 03:09:03 pm
Try setting your audio device in the launcher to 'generic software'. I think that was it. If not try 'generic hardware'.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on August 25, 2010, 03:09:49 pm
Please update OpenAL. Also,
Code: [Select]
Requested WGL Video values = R: 5, G: 6, B: 5, depth: 16, double-buffer: 1
Please use a video mode with 32 bits of colour depth. And what Battuta said.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2010, 04:22:48 pm
muchos gracias :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 26, 2010, 03:06:57 pm
working perfectly now :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Evangelist on August 27, 2010, 07:12:36 am
What a fantastic campaign.  I just played it for the first time ever, and the atmosphere was superb from beginning to end.  Already eaten up WIH as well.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: CommanderDJ on September 04, 2010, 09:01:18 am
I made my views on AoA partially known in another thread, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to almost fawn on this campaign in this thread. Full review now (SPOILERS FOLLOW):

I only played the campaign yesterday. However, once I started playing it, I didn't stop. I seriously didn't leave the computer till I had the damn thing finished. That's how hooked I was. I will divide this review into short paragraphs as aspects of it come into my head.

The core of FS gameplay was preserved (hah, I'm never going to be able to say that word the same way again), and much remained the same. The addition of new ships was of course quite awesome, and I loved playing as a Vishnan. However, I find that whilst the change in gameplay wasn't at all dramatic (and nor should it have been), other aspects injected freshness into it and rejuvenated it.

The new ships were quite well done. Personally, I would've liked the Dante to be bigger (hahaha, just kidding :nervous:). When it was said that it exceeded Juggernaut classification by at least five-fold, I was like :O, but then compared the Dante to the Sathanas in FRED and noted that the Dante wasn't even twice as big. Lol. But getting back on topic, the Terran ships in particular were awesome. I really liked the blue beam cannons (even though that's not strictly related). I'd always thought that there weren't enough blue beams in FS2.

The story. Now, here is a gem. This is what got me so hooked, and this is what made it so incredibly awesome. The interweaving of the storylines, one with Sam and his father, and the other the whole Shivan thing, gave players two... perspectives, if you like. One story was personal, the other was galactic universal TRANS-UNIVERSAL!!!!. The contrast, and better yet, the connection between the two, really served to immerse.

The characters. Bam. Another gem. Maybe even better than the story. Personally, I had tired of the whole nameless protagonist thing seen in most FS campaigns. The fact that Sam had a character, had a voice, had a background, had a story, and related with other characters really made the whole thing more immersive and more believable. The characters of Corey and Taylor were also really well done. I really enjoyed the fact that the storyline was not only event-driven, but also character-driven, and the characters used to drive it were superb. The Vishnans... whoa. They were just so... different. So awesome. As I said before, I really enjoyed fighting alongside them.

The voice acting. This just about caused me to orgasm.

In all seriousness though, and in all honesty, I probably would have liked the campaign only half as much if it wasn't for the voice acting. Not that the campaign was bad, not in the slightest, it was amazing, but the voice acting took it to a whole new ****ing level. Both the story and the characters were transmogrified into something much more epic by the voice acting. The Vishnans wouldn't have been half as cool without the musical echoing voices. Sam's voice was very solid, although the emotion did sound forced at times. Corey and Taylor were so damn good. Especially Taylor, that voice actress has got some ass-kicking talent. If anyone who reads this has the means to thank her personally, do so from me. I don't know why the voice acting affected me so, but I'm really really glad this was my first impression of BP.

Last but not least: the emotional effect. For me, this is the be-all and end-all of a campaign. What distinguishes the good campaigns from the great ones is whether they can generate emotion in me. This one did, and a lot of it. This was all because of the three aspects I mentioned before (story, characters, and voice acting) all merging together to create a monument and a tribute to everything FreeSpace stands for and everything the community stands for. I was genuinely looking forward to working with Corey and Taylor after they introduced themselves. Sam and I said "what the hell?" in unison when we saw what the Lucifer had done to Earth. My mind was blown when I realized we had travelled to an alternate universe. I was like, "take that, you mother****er!" when the Sathanas went down. My mind was once again blown when I saw the Preserver and the Dante. I felt rage (and quite frankly, a bit of awe and respect) when Shiva still wished to obliterate us. (As an aside, I've looked into the whole Hindu thing with Shiva and Vishnu, and I understand the exchange between them a little bit more now). I felt an urge (which I fortunately controlled) to cheat and switch my weapons to Shivan Super Lasers and blast the Orestes to hell when it opened fire on the Renjian. And lastly, when Sam, Corey and Taylor declared their intentions to set things right, I damn near cheered out loud (it would have been bad if I did, as it was 2.30am).

All in all, magnificent. This would have been worth paying for. Every single one of the people who made AoA what it is should be given infinite girlfriends (or boyfriends, as the case may be) and over 9000 internet cookies. I was skeptical when I'd seen murmurs on the forums that this could possibly be better than FS2, but now that I have witnessed it, I find myself agreeing. As I said in another thread, this campaign exemplifies the apex of this amazing community. My sincerest gratitude goes out to you all. Keep at it, and I will play WiH in due time. I am certain it will live up to my now quite colossal expectations.

CommanderDJ
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on September 04, 2010, 09:08:34 am
Hooray! Thank you for playing, for taking the time to give us that lovely review, and for enjoying it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on September 04, 2010, 09:12:00 am
Indeed. Thank you very much, and hope WiH is just as enjoyable! :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: FSW on September 05, 2010, 07:55:58 am
I played the newest version of BP:AoA a few days ago. It was my first time playing either BP or with the new mediavps, so this post can't be a 'pure' review of either. Also, there will be spoilers.

In summary, it was a phenomenal experience, and felt like a credible successor to FS2. I was impressed at every turn; this is my favourite Freespace mod.

Missions:
The difficulty balance seems spot-on at Medium and Hard, and mission design is pretty good. Some of the set-pieces are truly grand in scale, but the player character always feels important.
One criticism: at least one mission cannot reasonably be completed on the first try. In the attack on the Lucifer, for example, you're given a fighter by default, when in fact a bomber is necessary (as far as  I can tell); the player doesn't find this out until the mission starts.

Music:
I didn't expect new music! I tip my hat to the musicians; it's all very good. The music is perfectly fitted to each scene, and really emotive at times. The new battle music is especially catchy!

Graphics:
I hadn't played Freespace in about a year before this, and I am amazed by some of the things the engine can do now. The new Terran and Vishnan ships are beautiful, both graphically and architecturally. I was also surprised by the sheer number of new assets; very few non-Shivan ships had I ever seen before. It was like playing a proper sequel.

Story:
I hadn't read any spoilers, so the plot went in a completely different direction than I expected, right from the start. The story was at times surprising, suspenseful, intriguing, and exciting. I love the characters most of all; their dialogue and interactions are well-written, and they're really quite endearing.
Extra props for writing backstory and descriptions in the tech room! Such attention to detail took this beyond a light-hearted mod, into something that the writers clearly loved.
Cutscenes are used effectively. A few seem a bit extraneous; do I really need control taken away from me to show that destroyer exploding? I'd have noticed! I made it happen!

Voice acting:
This was the highlight. Most major characters sounded genuine and consistent, and it really made me relate with them. It added so much to the cinematic experience, that I'm a bit reluctant to play WiH until voice acting is done; even if it takes years. I'd love to be a part of it, and I intend to audition for some non-spoilerrific roles.
Bug: there was one mission (I can't remember which) which lacked voice acting for both command briefing and mission briefing. If it's not a known issue, I'll try  to recreate it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on September 05, 2010, 08:37:56 am
Hooray x3214234!

You can definitely beat the attack on the Lucifer using a fighter...though it's possible Fury's recent nerfs to the Vishnan ships may have borked something.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Timerlane on September 05, 2010, 02:08:42 pm
The Vishnan fighters did seem a lot more fragile than my last playthrough; I get the feeling that they do just fine, right up until the point where they run out of missiles, and then the continual waves of Shivan fighters start to overwhelm them, leaving the Shivan fighters to either all gang up and kill you, or at least delay you long enough for the Lucifer to jump out. I ended up taking Seekers for Alpha and ordering them to attack one reactor while I hit another, hoping to simply kill the Lucifer before the escorting fighters ran out of steam.

I definitely remember when it was possible to kill the reactors with just Vishnan primary fire, though.

I was the only one to survive 'The Great Preservers', too. The Nahemas' Piranhas seemed to do a real number on the Vishnan wings, and I think the turrets on the Seraphim that arrived to attack the Keeper finished off those who made it past the first stage.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Scriptura on September 05, 2010, 07:34:33 pm
I will say this:  :eek:

 :yes: This was awesome. Im surprised you guys haven't been contacted by Interplay to make the actual release of the next FS. I think I played this in three chunks. Just the whole prospect of seeing Earth and traveling all around these new systems made it addicting.

And Dante plus Preserver =  :eek2:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 06, 2010, 01:26:17 am
...Fury's recent nerfs to the Vishnan ships may have borked something.

Does it involve changing the Inquisitor's 8000 shield points? Or is it a more recent change?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on September 09, 2010, 05:30:47 am
Was "the dragon awakes" rebalanced in the patch? I remember the mission being at least challenging the last time I play it, but just now I breezed through the mission again and found it laughably easy for some reason.... and yes I played on the same difficulty setting as back then.

But I have to say, after flying the high manouverbility version of the Ray III from Wings of Dawn and the Kentauri, sitting in an Aurora made me feel more like inside an Ares or a bomber than a scout/interceptor  :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 09, 2010, 05:40:32 am
Are you sure it's not because you're flying better now? I still find it challenging on Very Easy.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on September 09, 2010, 07:35:53 am
Was "the dragon awakes" rebalanced in the patch? I remember the mission being at least challenging the last time I play it, but just now I breezed through the mission again and found it laughably easy for some reason.... and yes I played on the same difficulty setting as back then.

But I have to say, after flying the high manouverbility version of the Ray III from Wings of Dawn and the Kentauri, sitting in an Aurora made me feel more like inside an Ares or a bomber than a scout/interceptor  :p

I don't believe it's been significantly altered.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Lukeskywalkie on September 09, 2010, 02:39:35 pm

But I have to say, after flying the high manouverbility version of the Ray III from Wings of Dawn and the Kentauri, sitting in an Aurora made me feel more like inside an Ares or a bomber than a scout/interceptor  :p

I remember having that feeling in one of the Inferno interceptors, forget which - but it was so responsive that FS2 Standard fighters felt like mud for a while.  Then again, WoD demands such twitchy maneuvers with those soldier bugs - I can't imagine flying anything slower than an E.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on September 09, 2010, 02:45:00 pm
The Claymore Mk. I.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Lukeskywalkie on September 09, 2010, 03:01:17 pm
That was it!  What a dizzying little fighter.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 09, 2010, 07:21:55 pm
There was also the Stentor (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/EAF_Stentor).
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 10, 2010, 09:52:30 am
You don't want to dogfight against a Clay with Fury's AI. And even less against swarms of them.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on September 11, 2010, 09:55:59 am
Battuta said that there was a patch in AoA that fixed beamfade. This has me interested. Where can I find this patch?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on September 11, 2010, 10:06:09 am
Nowhere. It was a recent addition to our svn, which we will release with our next update.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: elitespoon on July 09, 2011, 01:09:52 pm
Okay, I recently played AoA DC, and it was phenomenal.  Just one thing, though:

Is it just me, or are a few of the command briefing voice-overs broken?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on July 09, 2011, 05:09:56 pm
Yes it is just you. Did you try to re-download the file with the voices?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: KyadCK on December 04, 2011, 06:57:47 pm
Aware of the bump, Darius asked me to post this here.

The AoA update renamed the Karuna's rotating subsys from rotator to rotatora, effectively breaking the WiH intro because of the "cormorant centrifuge failure" event. Simple freding change in 4 spots, all in that event, fixes it.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on December 05, 2011, 05:14:36 am
That change was made because of changes in the new Karuna model. All will be fixed once the WiH update is out.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on December 06, 2011, 06:49:21 pm
AoA DC release thread has a Dec 4 post saying that there are updates to core and visuals1. However, OP post with dl links was last touched October something. Is this intentional, or have the updates not been posted yet?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: KyadCK on December 06, 2011, 07:54:36 pm
AoA DC release thread has a Dec 4 post saying that there are updates to core and visuals1. However, OP post with dl links was last touched October something. Is this intentional, or have the updates not been posted yet?

Have already been, or I wouldn't have been able to find the problem. The files we're probably just replaced with the same name server-side so no modifications would have to be done.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: starwolf1991 on December 06, 2011, 09:19:35 pm
Confirmed that the updates are up. Checked bp-shp.tbm, spotted the aforementioned changes to the Karuna.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Redstreblo on January 22, 2012, 03:17:40 am
mediafire link for "advanced Visuals" leads to file moved or deleted screen. Update is needed on release thread. FreeSpaceMods link works just fine.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on May 19, 2012, 12:30:54 am
Vishnan beams don't have beam pierce effects. Just me?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 19, 2012, 05:08:48 am
Let me check ...

Question: is your active mod bp or bp2 ?

EDIT 1 - bp2 - OK, beam piercing is working

side note: Preserving the Balance is worst than a flash fest in Counter Strike :eek:

EDIT 2 - bp - KO, no beam piercing

side note2: aim is awesome
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kolgena on May 19, 2012, 05:06:01 pm
Update on observations: No beams pierce (beams never go through models, let alone generate blow-through effects) in AoA. Something in the mod pack must be turning off piercing from retail and the MVPs.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 17, 2012, 02:10:18 am
Did you guys ever make a separate release of the soundtracks? That collection would be bomb in a FLAC or MP3 playlist.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 17, 2012, 03:23:59 am
Wut.

1) Most of the soundtracks are copyrighted materials.

2) Soundtracks are already released. Anyone can grab a VP tool and extract them in nearly literally a couple of clicks (more like 3-4 clicks). What would you possibly need a separate release for ?

3) Since they didn't make the musics, that means they found it on the internet. If there's any flac version of it, you can just as easily search for em yourself.

4) MP3, seriously ? What year is this, '95 ?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 17, 2012, 03:33:54 am
4) MP3, seriously ? What year is this, '95 ?

Would you prefer a tracker module?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on June 17, 2012, 09:51:21 am
Wut.

1) Most of the soundtracks are copyrighted materials.

2) Soundtracks are already released. Anyone can grab a VP tool and extract them in nearly literally a couple of clicks (more like 3-4 clicks). What would you possibly need a separate release for ?

3) Since they didn't make the musics, that means they found it on the internet. If there's any flac version of it, you can just as easily search for em yourself.

4) MP3, seriously ? What year is this, '95 ?
Chill out, dude. He didn't call your mother fat or anything. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: headdie on June 17, 2012, 10:03:42 am
4) MP3, seriously ? What year is this, '95 ?

MP3 works very nicely on my generic MP3 player, which is nice because my generic MP3 player dont scream mug me like an iWhaterver does and if it dies or I loose it, well a few quid and a few mins at the computer later and it's like nothing ever happened
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Darius on June 17, 2012, 10:54:52 am
Chill out, dude. He didn't call your mother fat or anything. :P

Weren't you like five years old when those yo momma jokes were around? :P

I uploaded some of the AoA soundtrack here (http://www.mediafire.com/?5uwnr1j3vocn8) back in the day but it isn't comprehensive. One of these days I'll add more to the pile.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on June 17, 2012, 11:12:36 am
More like fifteen. It's a phase, more than a fad. :P
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: redsniper on June 18, 2012, 09:53:43 am
Momma jokes are eternal.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Liberator on June 25, 2012, 04:00:49 pm
Unless you don't have yours anymore.

Also, I remember when MP3s weren't and CDs were the big thing.  Hell, I remember when CD where new and shiny.  God I'm getting old.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: headdie on June 25, 2012, 04:26:05 pm
Unless you don't have yours anymore.

Also, I remember when MP3s weren't and CDs were the big thing.  Hell, I remember when CD where new and shiny.  God I'm getting old.

2x cdrom drive baby, run off a scuzzy controller on the sound card
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 25, 2012, 05:41:34 pm
I remember when my high-school's library got CD-ROMs added to their computer lab, and they were external units about the size of a modern consumer Blu-Ray player.  Hell, I remember learning to use computers in high-school on a lab full of XTs and 286s.  Then, a couple of years later, they got a second lab full of 486s (or were they Pentiums) running Windows 3.1.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: headdie on June 25, 2012, 05:51:00 pm
486 is most likely with a dos/win 3.1 os, though pent 75 to 133 I think predated win95
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Wobble73 on June 26, 2012, 06:50:05 am
I remember learning to program BASIC on BBC Micro's when I was at school, god i feel old!  :(
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 26, 2012, 10:27:26 am
One of the teachers in my computer lab at the time (and she wasn't THAT old mind you), recollected that when she studied computers, they had to hold all of their programs on punch-cards.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Liberator on June 26, 2012, 11:12:28 am
And God helped you if you dropped your stack...
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on September 01, 2012, 03:30:43 pm
I don't mean to bump, but I wonder if anyone else had these issues yet:

I went through Aquarius today on 3.6.14 RC6 (not 7 yet), and I had two red alert screw-ups:

1. First Contact, you're supposed to have a Pegasus. I warped into the next mission and was in an Aurora.

2 (not as bad, but still): Universal Truth, I was flying a Perseus with a Prom-S/Kayser, Harpoons and Trebs, only to come in Journey's End with a Prom-S/HL-7 and only one Harpoon bank (all my missiles were depleted, and I magically get 16 Harps). Oh, and Gamma 4 was marked dead (I wonder if it's because before the Banishment Conversation, all non-Alpha fighters depart?).

Surprisingly, in Universal Truth, I made Gamma Ares and Ursas with cluster warheads (since the AI cannot fire the Trebuchet by default), they did a frighteningly competent job and survived for about three fourths of the mission on Medium.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 01, 2012, 03:35:20 pm
Red Alert bug. They're the reason recent mods don't use Red Alerts.

It's been there since retail, and it's in nowhere specific to BP. It's basically a very specific form of pilot file corruption. Nothing you can do about it aside from creating a new pilot - ideally you should create one pilot per campaign.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Hoot on March 12, 2013, 05:40:50 am
I just want to say thanks guys! Playing BP made me really glad (and I am even not finished yet ...).
The the storyline is great, the vids fit, the atmosphere is strong and the action very good (ah, missions with a lot capital ship laser and falk fire ... I love them).

I will prepare some voice acting soon.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Kon on October 27, 2013, 11:29:05 pm
Thank you to the amazing Blue Planet team for taking me back 15 years! This campaign actually allowed me to recapture that feeling I had when I played the Main Freespace Campaign for the first time.

I recently I got a new joystick, and upgraded to 3.7.0. I decided that now was the perfect time to finally try Blue Planet. Boy, was I right! I blew threw the AoA campaign in 2 days, and now I can't get enough Freespace!

The story felt like a real love letter to V's original games, and the gameplay was just exhilarating. Never a dull moment. Challenging, but never frustrating. When I died, I was always eager to replay and do better. Undoubtedly one of the best mods I've played for any game.

I don't want to rush through WiH just yet, but I'll join the rest of HLP in patiently waiting for the rest of the trilogy. Outstanding job! :yes:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: badpenguin on January 05, 2016, 10:56:51 am
Wich is the suggested difficulty level? I had a very bad time at the first skirmish in medium alone against 12 shivans.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: General Battuta on January 05, 2016, 11:58:51 am
For your first run we suggest First Run! Or Second Run if you feel cocky.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: badpenguin on January 05, 2016, 12:09:10 pm
For your first run we suggest First Run! Or Second Run if you feel cocky.

I just noticed a new version of BP has been released on novembre 2015... i'm redownloading first :)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on January 05, 2016, 12:12:37 pm
Also, 12 ****ing dragons vs 4 recon fighters is a ridiculous fight, so if you are still having problems, I suggest evading them until backup arrives.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: badpenguin on January 05, 2016, 01:46:49 pm
I really love them :) Its just their speed or they have better A.I. ?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Mito [PL] on January 05, 2016, 03:57:04 pm
Actually, if you take a full loadout of Balors and Tornadoes (wingmen too), it shouldn't be a problem to kill at least a half of them on Normal(Medium) before Zeta arrives. I was able to clear the area before the backup arrived, without losing Nehru.  I suppose ordering the wingmen to attack the enemy might help.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: tomimaki on January 07, 2017, 06:25:10 am
In The Great Preservers Sacred Keeper pushes Knossos, rather than fly through it.
Both are in the same collision group so I don't know what's wrong. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on January 08, 2017, 02:55:51 am
So the Sacred Keeper enjoyed christmas too much and has grown too fat to fit through the portal? :lol:

Sorry, but the timing of this bug turning up shortly after christmas and new years was just too funny. :p
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: tomimaki on January 08, 2017, 05:13:09 am
Nah, Keeper ate too much Shivans long before Christmas. :p
But this topic (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=92820.0) reminded me about bug, so I thought to report it here.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on January 08, 2017, 05:32:10 am
Is this with 3.7.4, or a recent Nightly Build (or both)?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: tomimaki on January 08, 2017, 07:31:24 am
Both.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: ShivanSpS on March 27, 2018, 11:42:24 am
Sorry for posting so late, but i just recently replayed and recorded everything to upload to YT.

Im the only one who would have loved to see the Hades of the other universe? It was supposedly being constructed in Delta Serpentis, as a wreck or maybe the Hades could have served as the Sanctuary instead of that modified Orion. (whiout beams).

As a personal opinion, i would have loved to see the Lucifer going down just by the combined firepower of the modern GTVA fleet, whiout having to resort to anything "weird".

Also i was thinking, the Sathanas that gets destroyed, it is the same one that is destroyed on FS2?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Snarks on March 27, 2018, 05:20:36 pm
I seriously doubt it's the same Sathanas, given that there are at least dozens of them. The whole subversion with the Sathanas in FS2 was that it was not a unique "hivemind" ship, unlike the Lucifier, and that there isn't a weakness the GTVA can exploit to defeat the Shivans.

I'm not actually sure if the Sanctuary was based on Sol or elsewhere. If it was based in Sol, I'm surprised that it managed to escape without being destroyed. It's been a while since I've played AoA.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 28, 2018, 02:47:08 am
I like to think it is the counterpart to the FS2 sathanas.   

Also (I might be incorrectly remembering) the sanctuary made a run for it from the far side of earth while the escape pod filmed the Lucifer attacking earth's last defenders.

The voice of orestes tactical has spoken  ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: tomimaki on July 08, 2018, 03:12:07 pm
In The Great Preservers Sacred Keeper pushes Knossos, rather than fly through it.
Both are in the same collision group so I don't know what's wrong. :nervous:
If anyone is interested, fix is easy.
Change this
Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( when
   ( has-arrived-delay
      0
      "Knossos Portal"
   )
   ( add-to-collision-group
      "Knossos Portal"
      1
   )
   ( add-to-collision-group
      "Sacred Keeper"
      1
   )
)
+Name: keeper collision groups
to
Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( when
   ( has-arrived-delay
      0
      "Sacred Keeper"
   )
   ( add-to-collision-group
      "Knossos Portal"
      1
   )
   ( add-to-collision-group
      "Sacred Keeper"
      1
   )
)
+Name: keeper collision groups
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: The E on July 08, 2018, 03:17:39 pm
If anyone is interested, fix is easy.

Thank you! The fix will be in the next BP version we push to Knossos.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: emark4 on July 09, 2018, 01:40:30 am
If anyone is interested, fix is easy.

Thank you! The fix will be in the next BP version we push to Knossos.

BP gets updates? As in like, acts?
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Asteroth on July 09, 2018, 01:52:45 am
Uh, I would presume he means regular update. Bugfixes, enhancements, etc.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: emark4 on July 09, 2018, 01:58:05 am
Uh, I would presume he means regular update. Bugfixes, enhancements, etc.

Oh, okay. Didn't think there was bugs to be fixed.
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: Nightmare on July 09, 2018, 02:00:15 am
Uh, I would presume he means regular update. Bugfixes, enhancements, etc.

Oh, okay. Didn't think there was bugs to be fixed.

FSO will always find a way to break something. ;)
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: EatThePath on July 09, 2018, 03:01:23 am
I would quite like it if there was a small update to make the FSO requirement for BP on Knossos allow versions newer than the specified, too
Title: Re: BP: Age of Aquarius - The Director's Cut discussion
Post by: slayer tier on October 14, 2019, 08:15:06 am
whats the music at beginning of final mission?