Author Topic: Some words of praise and a few other things  (Read 3770 times)

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Some words of praise and a few other things
Been too long since ive had access to the internet (almost a year) thanks to life throwing me one hell of a curve ball. This net is only a temp thing but it'll hopefully last for the tasks I need to accomplish while I have access to it. I wont bore you with the details.


Its great to see the MCO team are still hard at it, churning out some incredible work which after a quick read of the forums leads me to believe the games grown by leaps and bounds compared to ver.66 that I currently have. I cant wait until I get a chance to download and play.

To the MCO team, you truely can hold your heads up high for continuing to improve the MCO game and share it with the battletech fanbase. I need to buy a hat purely so I can take it off to you guys.

In the time ive been gone, ive almost filled a notebook with ideas, designs and images which when I get back up to speed and find myself in a better position I hope to share some of it with you guys again.


A few quick questions for the more aesthetic MCO team members,

1. What is the 3D modelling program that you use mostly?
2. Is it simple to use for those of us who are... less computer literate (has tutorials and help topics)
3. If it is different from the above, what program do you use for texture mapping.

I'd like to try my hand at bringing to life some of my buildings which hopefully ends up better than my disasterous attempt at coding (I have a much better understanding of the monumental task Magic deals with now. Seriously mate, how do you do it). Or perhaps now that I feel my drawing skills have improved maybe i'll try a test 2D image of your choosing and see if thats up to scratch. I'll leave that up to you guys to decide on.

Until I manage to get on next, I wish you guys all the best and hope to talk with you guys again soon.

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Thank you for your kind words  :)

While I was gone myself for a bigger break, the remaining team definitly put together a huge progress, and we hope that even more will come. We are always open for ideas, and there is plenty of room in the team for new members, no matter which "department" they want to join :) Even starters are welcome, they just need to make clear to them self, that this is not only fun, but work. And you need a big enthusiam to keep yourself at it, when the moods drops sometimes, and trust me, this happens. Luckily, I can switch from modelling to other things when i get bored. Currently I switched to the "girls" department, so I'm a bit out of the loop, but will still remain here   ;)

As for your question, I think the choice of modelling programms is pretty big, since you can find more or less each converter on the internet nowadays. I'm still using my Truespace 5.1, which is from modern standards, a pile of crap and sometimes a really huge pain in the ass, but I can control this program now after many years working with it, and therefore I do not want to switch. Technically, 3ds Max is the best available from my opinion, but I find the GUI a nightmare (compared to what I'm used, but this was also my first impression about truespace too). It's a bit hard to come by, and very expensive. Certainly there are other ways to obtain it (student versions etc or even more..... others....), but I will let that to yourself.

For Graphics you are pretty free. Photoshop is best, but there are enough free or cheap clones of it on the web.

Regarding modelling, I tell you this.

What you need in order to master a programm, is simply a lot ot time and patience. From my experience, it's not that you need time to master the programm or the GUI, the problem is at a very different place. Namely in your brain.

When you grow the idea of a model in your head, be it a ship, mech or whatever, you see a picture before your inner eye. Then you want to start modelling right away, and you will most likely fail at the beginning. Because the problem is, in your modelling programm, you only find cubes, cylinders, spheres, planes whatever. You can bend edges, resize them whatever. But whatever you create, nothing will fit to the image you have in your head. The first models WILL look like crap. It was so for me, just like for anyone else.

It will take quite some time, before your brain get's used to the work to split up your glorius idea into all these simple geometry objects, which will then combine finally in what you wanted to create. Volumetric thinking and imagination is a really important aspect in this. Everyone (even if it said that men are better in volumetric thinking) can manage, just prepare yourself, that it will take some time, before your models start looking like the idea in your head. And when you don't get pissed or frustrated in the middle of this process, then you can become a 3d Modeller :) Trust me, it was hard for all of us. My first model consisted of a few cubes, and I was very disappointed about it, because it didn't looked like what I wanted to do. But now, SOME time (  :p ) later, i'm getting better and better, and you will too.

I think, this is the biggest part in everyones way of learning how to make 3d Models. So prepare yourself, and be patient, and with the time, it will work from alone. When your brain masters this "splitting and recombining in your imagination"  task, then the mastering of the software is easy :)

Feel free to share your ideas with us, we are open for everything !

Cheers
Starman
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 08:09:12 am by Starman01 »
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 
Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
I was thinking about the same as what Starman said.

There are many free, open-source programs for almost everything related to design. I use Blender 3d and GIMP, both of which are completely free, and have plenty of tutorials on youtube, forums, and even on books and DVDs. I wouldn't say they are for professional uses, but they do perform quite well. Many of the programs I use have a customizeable interface.
It took almost a year for me to be able to use Blender perfectly, and there's still things I don't know about certain parts.

Its really up to you what you want, how you want to use it, etc.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 04:33:03 pm by Raven IIC »

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
I'm kind of offended by the concept of a "professional program." Professionally-made software and user-made software is often... not so far apart as it may seem. I've seen plenty of people get held up by 3DS Max on issues which are quite trivial, while those of us who use inexpensive or free software do not seem to have those limitations. Instead, I'd call this more so an issue of "professional users," who know how to handle their tools and get good results from them. If the cost of the tool justifies its results, then it's a worthy tool. Otherwise, it's an exploit by the manufacurer, and the user should use something else.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 
Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
I'm kind of offended by the concept of a "professional program." Professionally-made software and user-made software is often... not so far apart as it may seem. I've seen plenty of people get held up by 3DS Max on issues which are quite trivial, while those of us who use inexpensive or free software do not seem to have those limitations. Instead, I'd call this more so an issue of "professional users," who know how to handle their tools and get good results from them. If the cost of the tool justifies its results, then it's a worthy tool. Otherwise, it's an exploit by the manufacurer, and the user should use something else.

I meant to say for professional uses, such as Pixar-quality animations, models and whatnot...
If I offended you with anything, I am indeed sorry.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Oh gee...

No, good Sir, I found absolutely nothing you said to be offensive. But, I have met a fair share of people who seem to think that they need really "high-end" software to get good results. I merely was relating the fact that for most matters, that's simply untrue.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Definitly. Even though 3ds Max seems to be the "state of the art" since it is used even by "professional" gaming companies (and granted, I might have many functions), it's price is simply ridiculous when bought legally. And you can definitly create nearly as good stuff with other Programms. Take a look at my midway or my murphy, I'm incredibly proud of these two models, and I made them with the ****ty TS5.1. And blender certainly allows the same quality. Only if you really want to create high res animations, I think then you maybe (maybe !!!) need professional software.

But for anyone who wants to start to be a 3d modeller, I can only recommened using free software, however you manage to obtain something free..... :)
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline magic

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Boundless, thank you...

When I was a student, I calculated that I need the day to be 6 hours longer in order to fulfill all my daily activities. In those days I learned  how to live fast, think fast and work fast (in other words - how to organize myself). I slept only 4 hours at night for nearly 5 years and my body adopted (impossible in my age now).
Had a lot of physical activities, because I like basketball and football (European), still keep my body in shape...

Its good if you want to be of jack of all trades, but thats not good in life, its always better to concentrate on one thing...

To answer your Q about modeling:
Every program is good if you know how to use it. MCO uses ASE (ascii scene export) as an input and no bone structure, no IK, no FK, just plain and simple animation...

 
Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Well, I am aware that there is a huge selection of programs out there for 3D model building, I was more interested in your personal opinions related to the programs you guys are currently using and for the most part you have done just that. It'd be wonderful if I magically had the money to throw around where I could pick up some top of the line program, however back in the real world I can barely afford a prepaid internet for a month. I might look into blender (time permitting) and see how things go from there. As I said in my previous post, i'm more interested in trying my hand at modelling buildings for the time being and don't see myself as trying to run before I can walk and attempting to model mechs or vehicles.

While its not much at the moment, my first ever MS paint 2D MechLab mech is coming along decently.



Please don't mind the green. White clashes too much with black for my eyes to handle for extended periods of time. It'll get changed later on.
I need to do some more work on the body but overall thats probably the final shape, minus some better detailing and what not. Criticism is very welcome (I kinda need anything constructive I can get), hopefully I didnt take design too far the wrong way.
I couldnt bring myself to design a pointy toed DireWolf (Sorry to whoever made the model, I just couldnt do it)
so opted for the MW4 style instead.

Got to find some sort of scanner for my MC scrapbook, i'll do some searching this weekend.

 

Offline cowboy

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Personally I'm a fan of MW4 designs.

 

Offline Karl

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Well, I am aware that there is a huge selection of programs out there for 3D model building, I was more interested in your personal opinions related to the programs you guys are currently using and for the most part you have done just that. It'd be wonderful if I magically had the money to throw around where I could pick up some top of the line program, however back in the real world I can barely afford a prepaid internet for a month. I might look into blender (time permitting) and see how things go from there. As I said in my previous post, i'm more interested in trying my hand at modelling buildings for the time being and don't see myself as trying to run before I can walk and attempting to model mechs or vehicles.

While its not much at the moment, my first ever MS paint 2D MechLab mech is coming along decently.



Please don't mind the green. White clashes too much with black for my eyes to handle for extended periods of time. It'll get changed later on.
I need to do some more work on the body but overall thats probably the final shape, minus some better detailing and what not. Criticism is very welcome (I kinda need anything constructive I can get), hopefully I didnt take design too far the wrong way.
I couldnt bring myself to design a pointy toed DireWolf (Sorry to whoever made the model, I just couldnt do it)
so opted for the MW4 style instead.

Got to find some sort of scanner for my MC scrapbook, i'll do some searching this weekend.

More of this please :D we could possibly use line art like your in MCO

Also if you can draw like that 3D is a small step from there

 

Offline cowboy

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
So pumped for the next release.

 
Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
My Dire Wolf has now reached the stage where im happy with it and hesitant to add any more detail (assuming I havent missed something major).



I did my best to color it in a way that makes it fit in with the original MC2 style. The tones of grey might be a little off since I only felt like working with 2 shades instead of 37. Still curious about what the collective thoughts of the MCO modding team are as to if this conforms to the direction you guys are taking the game in or not. Heck maybe a new feature I havent had the opportunity to check out yet makes this completely redundant. Either way a few people have liked it so thats enough for me.

Sadly my search for a scanner was fruitless so im sorry to dissapoint on that front.

 

Offline magic

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Boundless, that Direwolf looks very very good.

If you can do more we can definitely use your work.
And Karl is right, from there its just one more step toward 3D modeling.

I did my models in max.
I used also maya and blender but I cant really comment which one is better.

 

Offline cowboy

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
It is so cool that this many talented people are working on this project. You know? It's not like a few dorm buddies, but rather all of you experienced professionals putting in valuable free time to make this come to life. If only Microsoft would give up the copyright so that you guys could profit from the work.

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Actually, they have more or less :)

Only the "original artwork" files in the released source (textures, models and GUI) is still protected. But technically, if we replace everything (what we are doing anyway), we could even "sell" the result for proft because they abandoned the code actually :)

But don't worry, we wont  :p
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 11:11:44 am by Starman01 »
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline Zarax

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Except we'd still need to get a license for the BT content... :P
The Best is Yet to Come

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
ummm-... good point , that could become a "minor" problem  :p
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 
Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Well if you guys are happy to use them, i'll continue updating all the Mech Lab background images to this style.

Finished off two more since ive had close to 2 days of spare time ( viva la rainy days).





I might end up redoing the Uziel at a later time, something about it just isnt sitting well with me.

Since its already been stated that my net is limited and i'm close to running out of time on it, the only way i'll be able to deliver these will be through email (since on rare occasions I can use my works computer to quickly check emails). So it'd be nice if you guys could pm one of your emails or let me know a designated email so it wont be as long between deliveries, thanks.

 

Offline Karl

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Re: Some words of praise and a few other things
Wow those are great! Yes we definitely want them and will use them. Not too long ago we discussed ditching the mechlab images all together and replacing them with a generic background because we had trouble getting a good image, but your work will definitely change that.

Thanks again Boundless