Author Topic: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]  (Read 12021 times)

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Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
>Is seasoned Admiral
>Can't tell fuel and gun range apart from one another
 :p

When I said it happened frequently, I meant this: The second screenshot at Tanga happened the month after the first one. Then after that, followed 3 more coastal raids at Kavieng, one that had just double DD's again. One where it actually allowed me to bombard it with a BC (which then ran into a mine at the end of the senario so it was still a major german victory...) and the third, where I did had a BB on the field, but during day light it was bad weather, and when the weather finally cleared up, it was night, so nobody could see the bloody target at that range.

I also had this one case of a weird bug, where two enemy CL's were standing still (during the night) but all the torpedoes being fired would lead them as if they were moving. Meanwhile, their torpedoes had no issues finding my ships. Eventually just parked one of my own CL's on their aft and pounded away.

Anyway I didn't meant to hijack the good thread with my far less interesting ranting.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I played the game 4 times beyond 1930 and rarely encountered the issues Spoon had. Rather, whenever there were several B/BC/BB of both sides at the same region it usually took a maximum of 2-3 months until I got a fleet battle. One time playing as the US I decided to send my lots of BBs and BCs to Japan and right when they arrived I already got a fleet battle against an equally sized japanese fleet. Also most shore bombardements were with BCs or at least CAs.
It did help that I don't like CLs and mostly sent CAs and BCs to colonial service cause the small ships had a tendency to meet random hostile capitals all the time.
Quote
P.S. Battleships with torpedoes are the bestest thing forever. Put tubes on all the BB's
Not so much for early game under water tubes... I felt they were rarely using them (even when barely moving right next to their target) and if they did, they still missed a disabled target somehow. Better let the DDs to the torpedo-stuff.
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Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
My late game BBs equipped with AoN and 16in guns had two quadrupel launchers on the bow...
And while AoN is nice it somehow felt that they take damage way faster than other BBs.
Anyways, my way against Albion turned out hillarious. Although being blockaded and avoiding deceisive battle ( six old BBs against 26 british seemed a waste), I somehow managed to stay ahead in VPs.
And then Italy stepped in... Luckily enough I managed to let Albion explode in revolution, nab Gibraltar and keep Maine, which was the reason for the war... and now the USA have declared war.
And WTF? How are the united states able to do coastal raids against me in the baltic? :D
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Not so much for early game under water tubes... I felt they were rarely using them (even when barely moving right next to their target) and if they did, they still missed a disabled target somehow. Better let the DDs to the torpedo-stuff.
I put on the maximum amount of underwater tubes on my battleboats and they constantly got to use them (well, I manually fired them a lot that is), to great effect against other enemy capitalships. A forward launcher is amazing for when crossing the T.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

  

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Torpedo tubes are, indeed, exceptional in bang-for-buck early game, but you need to be playing on Captain's mode, so you can manually fire them. AI is much too timid with them.

Lategame, above-water tubes are a necessity, because they can be fired even if the ship is doing more than 25 (?) knots. An absolute must for cruisers and battlecruisers.

One thing that I'm eager to try is a torpedo cruiser à la GLORIOUS KITAKAMI-SAMA.Should be actually viable, mid to late game.

EDIT:





Only partly viable. Certainly functional, but by no means equivalent to the OTL glory that is KTKM-SAMA. Main problem is the underperforming WW1 engines and the inability to put in more than 4 torpedo launchers per side.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 08:29:28 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I put on the maximum amount of underwater tubes on my battleboats and they constantly got to use them (well, I manually fired them a lot that is), to great effect against other enemy capitalships. A forward launcher is amazing for when crossing the T.
Torpedo tubes are, indeed, exceptional in bang-for-buck early game, but you need to be playing on Captain's mode, so you can manually fire them. AI is much too timid with them.
That mostly. For some playthroughs I never touched Captain's mode at all and often just used Admiral's mode. It feels wrong to literally micromanage every ship (given the games realistic touch and it also too much effort). In larger battles I used the mode in between so I can command my scouting groups and battle lines, but that's it. That way those torpedo tubes are mostly worthless and cause flooding way too often...

Above water tubes on the other hand are great and the AI seems to be pretty competent on using them.

Quote
GLORIOUS KITAKAMI-SAMA
As long as Ooi stays away, I'm all for it :yes:
KTKM = saves bad Admiral's ass by nuking everything away with endless wall of torpedoes.

Pretty sad she can't be built in RTW  :sigh:
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Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Hey, this might be better!



Completely legal, by the way.

So, turns out that ships that are <=3.5ktons, can have both side launchers and centreline launchers (I did not know this, before experimenting!). Side launchers can only be triples (because of off-centre weight) but centreline ones can be quads. So, if we scale down the ship to an insane degree (3.5ktons instead of the previous 8k tons) and strip all armor off (except 1 inch of narrow belt, to make the game identify it as a CL) we have a destroyer leader, of sorts. Or, in fact, a destroyer follower - something that can send the little ones ahead to draw fire and then drop the walls of skill in their wake.

30 knots, with a piddly 5-incher turret up front (just so she can contribute somewhat to the fight as she's closing the range). Also, 5x4=20 centreline torp launchers and 2x3x4=24 side torp launchers. For a total of 44 torps, 4 more than BASED GODDESS OF OVERCRITS.

She also costs almost exactly half as much as the 8k ton variant (so you can have two of them for the same price as a big one!) and takes three months less to complete. Bargain!

I can just imagine the in-game messages. It's gonna be either something like this:

Enemy ship Insert Name Here hit by torpedo!
Enemy ship Insert Name Here hit by torpedo!
Enemy ship Insert Name Here hit by torpedo!
Enemy ship Insert Name Here hit by torpedo!

Or something like this:

SMS Amazone Torpedo Launcher* Torpedo Explodes!
SMS Amazone Torpedo Launcher* Torpedo Explodes!
SMS Amazone is sinking!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 11:49:50 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
THANK YOU BASED KTKM
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Wow, didn't expect this design to be legal. Definitely Super-Kitakami.


Or something like this:

SMS Amazone Torpedo Launcher* Torpedo Explodes!
SMS Amazone Torpedo Launcher* Torpedo Explodes!
SMS Amazone is sinking!

Does this actually happen in the game? Can't remember ever seeing this message in the game.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Can confirm, had one of my quad tubes on a BB explode once. Significant superstructure damage was had.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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16AUG19240632

U105 TO UBK - HLGL:

FR SQUADRON IN SIGHT, APPROACHING HLGLBIGHT FROM WEST. CURRENT POSITION 53°20'27.3"N 4°16'42.2"E, CURRENT BEARING 073, CURRENT SPEED 15-17KN. MULTIPLE CAPITALS HEAVY ESCORT.


-Message sent by Kaleun Rupert Drücker to Heligoland Command upon sighting of the French Toulouse raiding task force.



It is the 16th of August: and the Naval ENIGMA comms centres explode with activity. Submarine patrols north of Texel report a massive mobilisation of the French fleet. At least two capital ships are seen, moving towards the east; scout Zeppelins manage to glimpse the French task force making its way towards the Helgoland Bight. These waters, so often the site of clashes in the past, are about to be wreathed in smoke and fire again.



Galster mobilises his fleet Mackensen and Zähringen are docked in Emden: they are recalled posthaste and they make best speed towards Helgoland. The rest of the available Hochseeflotte, consisting of the Schlachtkreuzer Graf Spee, Hindenburg and Lützow and the Schlachtschiffe Elsass and Schwaben scramble to find the French squadron.

Scheer, commanding from on board the Elsass is pissed off: the analysts of the Admiralität have assured him that the French would not push into German waters without Russian backing. He has a few choice words for them; but his ships are ready. Hipper, flying his flag on the Mackensen has contacted him and has assured him that he is only a couple of hours away: Scheer's priority is to find the French and pin them down, while the Jagdhund closes the jaws of the trap.



If they play this properly, they can end the French fleet today. If they do not coordinate properly, the French might escape - or, worse, slip by the German force to cause serious damage to port infrastructure.



12:49: the morning mist has lifted; and Scheer's squadron has barely left Helgoland, when his lookouts spot enemy smoke in the distance. A cold hand grips Scheer's heart: they have almost made it to Emden unopposed. And there is no sign of Hipper.

The utter failure of the German intelligence operatives is staggering, but Scheer has no time to truly contemplate it: he has other things to occupy him. Fire flashes along the French battle-line: shells whizz over the heads of the Germans, landing around and in front and behind and on the German ships.



The French battle-line turns north, in a smooth graceful curve, keeping constant fire on the approaching Germans. Scheer points his bows at the French ships and resultely closes the range: he needs to push them away from the coastal civilian traffic, and if he has to give them his T to do so, then so be it. A French light cruiser (the Forbin, a Tage-class raider) attempts to slip by the guns of the German fleet towards the south.



Hipper chooses this moment to make his appearance, closing in from the south. The guns of the Mackensen track the Forbin and engage at maximum range: the new Improved Directors guide her shots to the target unerringly. The Forbin is struck by six 12-inch shells at 12:47 and five more a minute later; her light armour crumples like paper and her boilers burn sky-high.

Meanwhile, the Graf Spee is leading the charge against the French battleline, and French fire is concentrating on the massive Schlachtkreuzer bearing down on them. Scheer tries to contact them, order them to break off, let the Schlachtschiffe and their massive armour take up forward positions; but the Graf Spee's wireless aerials have been blown clean off and the ship is operating under local command. And her commanding officer, Kapitän zur Zee Markus Neufahrer has no intention of hiding behind Scheer's skirts. For over ten years, now, the Zähringen-class Schlachtkreuzer have led the charge, using their massive bulk to shield their smaller allies; this time is no exception.



There are at least three capital ships in the enemy battle-line, all of them with heavy guns (14 inchers and higher); and they all focus their attention on the Graf. Over the course of ten minutes, the German ship is hit six times, on her superstructure and forward belt. Her 'C' Turret jams on its bearings; and her funnel is penetrated, clogging the updraft. She loses a knot of speed, but doggedly closes the distance, training her guns on the closest French capital: a Guedon-class 14-inch battlecruiser.



Bam.

The French are having none of that. As the German battleline turns towards the east, to bring their entire broadsides to bear, the French lock onto the Graf's bigger silhouette and hit her again with accurate heavy fire. Her 'Y' turret jams before it can be brought to bear; her 'B' turret is penetrated and its top blows off, riding a gout of flame. Thankfully, the unfortunate gunners had followed safety protocols and the flash fire does not reach the magazines.



Four more shells smash into her superstructure like hammers and pound it into splinters. More than half of her upperworks are now a mass of glowing slag; fires threaten to break out across four decks. Her damcon crews race to respond.

But she does not turn away; and her remaining guns are thundering. She has already put more than six hundred shells downrange, and she has scored ten hits on the Guedon.





She is not alone. Hindenburg and Lützow are following closely, in the time-honoured tradition of the Zähringen-Wittelsbach wolfpacks; and the fire that their bigger sister is drawing is fire that they don't have to suffer through. Their fire control directors are unhindered and their firing solutions are near-perfect. Hindenburg locks onto the Guedon that the Graf has bloodied and puts seven more 12-inch shells into her; Lützow does even better (even though she's operating with older directors) and drills eighteen shells into the French battlecruiser's belt.



Throughout all this mess, Scheer is desperately trying to get his battleships into the fight. His singular focus is drawing fire away from the Schlachtkreuzer; but in his mad charge forwards he overextends. Three French destroyers (a Mortier-class, a Pertusiane-class and a Framée-class) find their ways to his unguarded flank; and a torpedo fired at long range strikes the Elsass on her midships belt. The ship heaves and Scheer demands a damage report.





Aha.

AHAHAHAHAHA.

TWO FLOTATION PIPS NO FLOODING AHAHAHAHA.



Scheer's evasive maneuvers split the battleship force away from the Schlachtkreuzer; they slot onto the Guedon's ass and try to catch up. Meanwhile, the Schlachtkreuzer redouble their efforts: Lützow already has chewed through half of her ammo stores. But the Graf is still the centre of attention for the French. One of the French capitals - a slow battleship, from what the German lookouts on the Elsass can make out, fires at the mangled German behemoth; and one of her shells penetrates one of the Graf's secondary turrets, blowing it clear off its bearings. By now, the ship has taken more than twenty hits from capital-grade weapons and has 'only' scored fourteen hits in return.



However, the Graf's damcon crews have managed to field-repair her turret drives. 'B' turret is utterly dead, of course, but the rest of her battery (fifteen 12-inchers) can now traverse and engage. Neufahrer orders a hard turn to port for his battle-group, to unshadow his starboard secondaries and make sure that no enemy destroyers will get too close.



And then he gets a good look at what is firing at him. Buggery. This is a Toulouse, a relatively old French-version of the 'triangle ship'. She's a cheap, pocket version of the ships that the Brits and Japanese and Italians tried to produce to counter the Zähringens. She's got a jammed turret, but she's still putting accur-



BANG

The entire ship shakes - the helmsman reports a total loss of control and Neufahrer's face goes white. The rudder is hit and it is jammed fully to port. The Graf is uncontrollable and circling; and fully exposed to the enemy guns. Thankfully, her armor defeats another French shell that tries to find its way into her engine room.



It takes the Graf's damcon crews several grueling minutes to restore her rudder, and, when they do, they are forced to jettison one of her twin rudders that dug limply into the water like an anchor. She now handles like a pig and needs to be steered with the help of her props, but she does answer the helm partially; and Neufahrer takes her back towards the starboard. He is sitting directly between the three enemy capitals, taking fire from every side and he needs to disengage -

-and that's when the Elsass and the Schwaben finally run down the Guedon and fire into her aft from a range of less than four thousand yards. Twelve 15-inch rifles boom -





-and five shells find their way into and through the Frenchman's aft armour. Smoke and fire belches from her funnels and three of her turrets go up like roman candles. She is finally dead.



Neufahrer limps away and Sheer's division takes up point. The Hindenburg is unlucky enough to receive a final slap from the second Guedon, and she loses a turret, before the attention of the Frenchmen shifts very firmly onto the charging German battleships.



Behind the Germans, the dead Guedon goes up in an apocalyptic fireball. The fires have reached her magazines.

Meanwhile, the Graf is-





-HOLY ****-

What's left of her superstructure is burning, but most of it is utter, glowing slag. All of her portside secondaries are gone. She is listing heavily and half of her reserve buoyancy is lost. She can't make more than 16 knots, and she shouldn't, because she's flooding, taking on nearly thirty tons of water every minute. Her decks are a slaughterhouse. And her damcon crews are fighting like demons to keep that fire from reaching the magazines.

How the **** is she still floating?



But from behind her comes another flash and a cloud of smoke that reaches sky-high. Something has struck the Toulouse - and her weak, nine-inch belt has not withstood the blow. Her magazines go up and the Frenchman dies.

Post-battle analysis will show that only the Hindenburg was firing at her at the time. Gottverdammt, the Wittelsbachs are awesome. Built thirteen years ago and they're still wiping the floor with the garlic-eaters.

Suddenly, that last Guedon is very much alone.



The Destroyers fan out to cover her flanks, and help her retreat. She can do so - she can certainly outrun every German capital ship on the field. But she'll need time - and her destroyers are offering their lives to provide her with this time.

The Hindenburg and Lützow see what's happening and turn their guns to engage the closing destroyers. But it's too late: S15 is the first to buck wildly, as a French torpedo finds her mark and buries its warhead into the fragile tincan's hull.



Hindenburg has barely time to spot the incoming spread and engage torpedobeats. A single French fish screams past her. Lützow is not so lucky. She finds herself facing a spread of three; and ends up taking one on her starboard midships.



She ends up losing a boiler and her starboard wing turret - and she's flooding heavily. Her captain falls out of formation. There is little she can contribute, with her stricken engine. She sails south, to join up with the Graf and provide aid.



The Graf...surprisingly does not require help. She has put out the fires; and her flooding is under control. Somehow, somehow she is still steerable and able to make cruise speed to Helgoland.



She looks like nothing more than a floating wreck. Truly. No German ship has ever taken such a beating in history. Two out of three crewmen are casualties; two out of five are dead.





It is left to Scheer to clean up. Elsass and Schwaben scatter the French destroyers with their secondaries and engage the last Guedon, driving her towards the east and Helgoland.



Meanwhile, Hipper is smashing the French destroyer screen that tried to run down the hurt Schlachtkreuzer. 12-inch guns make short work of the French tincans.



And little Bremen, who has spent the entire fight trying to catch up with the fleet, her old boilers almost bursting at the seams, as always, finds her own little moment to claim glory. Through the French destroyer formation and the smoke, she spots a French Du Chayla cruiser - which she engages with her old, worn-out six-inchers.



Booooooom.

Seriously, Frenchies. Bremen is a ****ing legacy ship, built in the nineteenth century.



Scheer claims his own cut of the meat at 15:54. The last Guedon, her guns utterly silenced, strikes her colours.



There is only the few surviving destroyers left to hunt down and kill.



Haha.

Hahaha.

HAHAHAHAHA.

The victory is total. Despite the horrific pounding the Graf received, she somehow reaches port; the Germans have been mauled (especially the Schlachtkreuzer divisions) but have lost no ships. Even the S15, struck by a French torpedo, survives to fight another day. There cannot be a more eloquent demonstration of the new G9's durability!



Meanwhile, the French have lost three of their biggest capital ships, including the ultra-modern 40kton Montcalm and Dupetit-Thuars, not to mention the Toulouse. And, of course, we have not begun to address the massive blow that the French light forces received in this battle. Two light cruisers gone; and, perhaps more significantly, eleven Destroyers, out of a total of twelve were sent to the bottom of the Bight. France's escort fleet is utterly gone, right now.



And, by God, do they feel it!
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
*LANGSDORFF INTENSIFIES*

No, I still don't know how the Graf made it out of that mess alive.

*Obligatory ATEN'T DEAD joke*
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Are you playing with cheats? How are those two destroyers not on the bottom of the ocean? How is the Graf Spee not an unintentional submarine yet?

What level of torpedo defense does Elsass-sama have? Or are the french torpedoes just that undeveloped?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Reading this it feels to me like like all those fights are the same. Hostile fleet gets trashed and a heavily damaged german capital ship survives due to some miracle. German engineering is truly the best in the world ;)

Also, what Spoon posted just before me. My ships rarely escaped submarine mode when they actually got damaged heavily...
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Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
In my opinion it's about speed.
Going fast in damaged/flooding ships is a death warrant.
Whenever one of my capitals is flooding, I turn the whole battle line away, going sq. max of the damaged ship and waits till no more "limits flooding" warning pops up.
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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Are you playing with cheats? How are those two destroyers not on the bottom of the ocean? How is the Graf Spee not an unintentional submarine yet?

What level of torpedo defense does Elsass-sama have? Or are the french torpedoes just that undeveloped?

I am not playing with cheats.  :p

It definitely seems like French torpedoes suck, because Elsass-nee-sama only has 2 levels of torpedo protection (max is 4)

Let me put this utter incompetence of the French fleet into perspective. France, being the OTL proponent of the jeune école, focusing on light cruiser forces and destroyers over heavy capitals, have neglected their torpedo tech. They're probably firing baguettes out of their tubes, or something.

British torpedoes hit harder six years ago. :nervous:

In their defense, France has the national debuff of 'Inconsistent naval policy', which means that their politicians can flip what they ask of their admirals overnight and expect them to follow. It's pretty clear that the utterly massive (by French AI standards) Guedons were products of such a flip from the 'light forces' focus to the 'heavy capitals' focus, and I expect that the money that their admiralty channeled into their capital ship production is money that they couldn't focus into developing a better torpedo.

France essentially has their equivalent of von Papen in charge 24/7...  :lol:

How is the Graf Spee not an unintentional submarine yet?

Actually, if superstructure damage reaches max, the ship is considered 'uncontrollable' and is abandoned, drifting. It usually sinks immediately afterwards. The Graf must have reached something like 98-99% damage saturation... :shaking:

Reading this it feels to me like like all those fights are the same. Hostile fleet gets trashed and a heavily damaged german capital ship survives due to some miracle. German engineering is truly the best in the world ;)

Also, what Spoon posted just before me. My ships rarely escaped submarine mode when they actually got damaged heavily...

I realise this and I'm trying to write it suspenseful, but we can all agree that German ships will just refuse to die, whatever the circumstances...

In my opinion it's about speed.
Going fast in damaged/flooding ships is a death warrant.
Whenever one of my capitals is flooding, I turn the whole battle line away, going sq. max of the damaged ship and waits till no more "limits flooding" warning pops up.

This.

If a ship is flooding, going at high speed reduces the chance that the 'XXX reduces flooding!' message will trigger; and increases the chance that the 'XXX high speed increases flooding!' or 'XXX bulkhead collapse!' messages will trigger. When one of my capitals is seriously hurt (say by a torp), I do my best to drop their speed to under 10 knots, until they fix the leak.

Detaching them from the battle-line is a valid option, but you have to make sure that they won't leave the flagship control radius, because then their AI might be stupid enough to order 'full speed ahead' to reach a harbour sooner and flood to death (while inching along at 5 knots might have gotten them home safe)
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
a Guedon-class 14-inch battlecruiser.
"What is this, a battlecruiser for ants?!? It needs to be at least... three times this big!"
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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  • Men Kaeshi Do
    • Steam
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Quote


Even in a force as elite as Imperial Germany's Schlachtkreuzer Squadrons, the first generation battle cruisers were held in particular reverence.  Their part in forging Germany's Navy from a nascent force to the preeminent naval power of its day, coupled with the fabled actions fought in their twilight years had cemented a reputation akin to Napoleon's vaunted Grognards.  Known affectionately as the "Valkyries" among Hochseeflotte, the crews of these renowned vessels had unofficially taken to wearing Shieldmaiden pins in their caps in honor of the moniker. 
Roughly a week after the events off Helgoland Bight an Imperial Packet bearing dispatches arrived from the Mediterranean, after mooring her skipper immediately repaired aboard the wounded Graf Spee and presented a package to Kapitän zur Zee Markus Neufahrer.  In it was a teak and bronze plaque which translates:

"To SMS Graf Spee,

In recognition of your glorious action on the 17th of August, we cordially welcome you to the Imperial Order of the Death Riders.  May you continue to bring honor and victory to the Vaterland.

We have the honor to be.

Your sisters in battle,
 
SMS Von der Tann
SMS Goeben
SMS Moltke
SMS Seydlitz
"

In addition were individual letters of congratulation from each captain and most significantly Shieldmaiden pins for every member of Graf Spee's crew who had fought in her sortie.  While the Kaiser would award many a Knights and Iron Cross in recognition of August 17th action, among the ratings wearing the symbol of the Valkyries in their flat caps was considered the greatest honor.

Excerpt from "Zitadellen der Stahl: An analysis of the German Battlecruiser Force" Thomas K. Rhodes November 2, 2004
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:42:53 pm by StarSlayer »
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I tried my hand at a second game of RTW, this time as the brits. Finally managed to get the big fleetbattle that I desired (against zee germans, it was very one sided in my favor, without any flashfires).
And I also fully experienced the fun and engaging side of playing the brits, when I had my duo of state of the art 36k ton battlecruisers, detonate within minutes of one another. Just moments into the battle commencing. That single handedly put me so far behind in VP's, that I only managed a white peace because of the 10000 submarines I had, sinking merchant ships.

Question regarding deck armor and superstructure. Does deck armor also include the super structure?

At the end of the game, I build a 50k ton BC that had a full broadside of quad torpedo launchers, a mere 6 12 incher's, 16 8inch secondaries, and a t h i c c belt of 17". It only had 2.5" of deck armor, but considering its role of 'up close and personal', it wasn't expected to bounce long range shells on its deck.
I charged it into a fleet of enemy BC's for ****s and giggles, that had guns ranging from 13 to 16 inch. But before my BC had closed the distance, it had already suffered 70% structure damage.
Sure, even at the very end when it was on fire and flooding, it could still manage a decent 24kts, but outside of the engines, few things were still working on it.
Can you even migate structure damage in any kind of meaningful way with armor?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
So I also started another round (now 1920) as Austria-Hungary with 40% technology rate (so my ships aren't outdated too fast) and varied technologies for more randomness. Every 5 years there was a war against Italy and I got a fleet battles every 3-4 months (and many other battles also involved the BCs). Kinda expected when you can nearly shoot at the enemy harbour from you own :D Toppled their government twice despite sending those revolutionaries away. Starting with the second war I managed to sink a lot of their ships but their fleet (and budget) was always larger than mine. Also my Cruisers exploded very often...  :ick:

Can you even migate structure damage in any kind of meaningful way with armor?
Thinking realistically - it is nearly impossible to slap sufficient armor on all that relevant stuff sitting on top of the armored parts. History has shown that destroying the superstructure is often way easier than actually sinking the ship. I think that there is no way in RTW to protect your superstructure besides the conning tower.
My last round some months ago was with the 18+ armor mod and I had ships with 16 inch guns whose citadel was immune against their own guns at all ranges. One fleet battle I did the same you did and was quite successful. My artillery could handle the enemy ships at close range and half of them were down when my fleet had passed the japanese fleet. The main problem were japanese steel fish but torpedo protection 4 ensured that only one of my BBs went down. So kill them before they kill you with fire...
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script