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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: MatthTheGeek on March 11, 2012, 06:51:49 am
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Title says it all. We're not here to argue whether the ME3 ending sucks or not. If you come post here, it means you already agree that the ME3 ending sucks.
Don't expect what will follow to be spoiler-free.
Basically, unless you have a better idea, let's consider that everything until the death of the Illusive Man and the activation of the Crucible is canon. From there, we have to decide what will the Crucible do, and what the consequences will be for the rest of the galaxy.
Here are some of my ideas :
1) The Crucible turns to be some sort of weapon, capable of one-shotting reapers or something long those lines. We kill all reapers. The galaxy starts to rebuild in peace. End of story.
2) The Crucible sends some sort of signal that disable all the reapers. From there, the galaxy has to face the dilemna of what to do with hundreds of inert reapers hulls orbiting their words, knowing that they could still be dangerous.
3) The Crucible sends some sort of signal that disrupt the reaper's ability to communicate and control their minions. Hence the galaxy can use clever tactics to pick the disorganized reapers one by one. That will not go without heavy losses, but winning the war through conventional tactics could potentially be at hand.
One of the main details to remove from the current ending is the destructions of all mass effect relays. We can go as far, however, as a signal deactivating the mass relays, so that they're in the state they were when we first discovered them after the Prothean purge.
All ideas are welcome. Feel free to improve and refine ideas already given by me or others.
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The reapers do not destroy the galaxy because of a war with synthetics. They do so because evolution ultimately leads to stagnation. The protheans are a clear example where they subjugated you. Thus, advanced civilizations are purged to allow new races to flourish.
The race that would most likely end up dominating the galaxy is harvested into the capital ship reapers while others into destroyers. Humanity occupies this position which would explain the reaper's focus on them.
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We already know that. That is not what we're trying to retcon here.
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No you don't. The canon motive is because synthetics will eliminate organics. This would affect the endings as the merge option becomes moot. I just hate the reasoning behind the reapers. Bioware mucked that up. Their motivation does make up the ending
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Here's a ****ing better ending that calls back to Mass Effect 1 and is the ****ing best
OPTIONAL STEP 1: LONDON (this is resource intensive and Bioware never would've done it)
At the end of the London sequence, Harbinger descends to kill Shep before s/he can reach the beam.
You must make a choice: send a squadmate or two out to distract Harbinger while you make a run for the beam, or exploit Harbinger's obsession with you to draw him off yourself. If you make the former choice, squadmate dies. If you make the latter choice, Shep dies, but your squad presses on, showing that Shep's heroism is as much about inspiring others as it's about [RIGHT HOOK].
CRUCIAL STEP 2: CATALYST
The Catalyst AI talks to whoever makes it [Shep or squadmate]. If you have enough war assets, you can say:
Hang on a second. You're a Reaper AI. You control all the Reapers. You're linked.
When Sovereign controlled Saren, and we killed Saren, Sovereign's barriers dropped.
If we kill you, the Reapers' barriers will drop. Everywhere.
Hackett, fire everything you've got at the Citadel. Blow the **** out of it.
The fleet engages the Citadel, and the Reapers try to defend it. The game checks your War Assets against the strength of the Reaper fleet. If they're not high enough, the fleet is wiped out and the Reapers win. If they are high enough, the Citadel is destroyed and the Reapers can be beaten by conventional means, but the Normandy is destroyed. If they're ireally high, the Normandy flies in and rescues the squadmates. Happy ending for all!
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Well, the Reapers keep spouting their drivel about being the "salvation" for organics.
So, their perception is that they save the organics for something. The reason stated in the canon is the creation of synthetic life that ends up destroying organic life.
However, that alone is oxymoron; life is life, synthetic or organic - there is no fundamental difference whether the molecular machinery is running on naturally evolved chemistry, or intentionally designed one, and similarly it doesn't make a difference whether the being is controlled by an organic neural network generated consciousness, or a true AI.
The Reapers' logic seems to be this:
1. organic life will eventually create synthetic life, if allowed to develop it freely
2. synthetic life created by organic life will eventually rebel
3. synthetic life created by sufficiently advanced organic life will end up uncontrollable by its creator species, and, in worst case, uncontrollable by anyone or anything
4. synthetic life will for some reason be motivated to destroy all organic life
5. to prevent destruction of all organic life, synthetic life must not be allowed to be freely developed
6. to prevent the free development of synthetic life by organics, the organic cultures must be periodically stopped so that they do not advance far enough to create unstoppable synthetic life
7. to prevent the destruction of said organic cultures, they are harvested instead of being destroyed - the harvesting could, in a way, be descrived as "archiving" the species in Reaper form.
Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. The game tries to address this at one point where EDI poses a question about the meaning of synthetic life, but fails to follow-through on it, especially with the later evolution of Geth to become true AI's. So, we are not given any actual proof that synthetic life will always attempt to wipe out organic life; in fact we are given evidence of contrary, that synthetics and organics can live in co-existence or even symbiotic relationship.
Secondly, there is no explanation as to why synthetic life taking over would be an explicitely bad thing to happen. When there's no functional difference between synthetic and organic data, what then is supposed to be the difference? I for one do not see one.
So, in their determination to solve a "problem", the Reapers have become a much bigger problem themselves. Instead of allowing the galaxy to evolve freely, on either organic or synthetic route, they are effectively enforcing a level of stagnation where no space-faring civilization can be much older than 50,000 years. While a long time for a civilization, this is not especially long time in evolution of species. That basically means that the species capable of forming space-faring civilizations must already be pretty well evolved at the time of a purge in order to participate in the galactic civilization of the next cycle.
Additionally, as a long term solution, the Reapers are a piss poor one. At some point, they will run out of new species to harvest because the prominent sapient species from all the planets within the Mass Relay network have been eradicated and new sapient species have not had the time to evolve. What will they do when they have harvested all the species?
At that point, synthetic life has, basically, eradicated organic life and taken over - an occurrence the Reapers specifically claim to be designed to avert, according to the Citadel AI.
The interesting thing in Mass Effect galaxy is that there could be millions of relay networks equal in size and distribution to that connecting the Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians and all the other species shown in the series. There could be thousands of galactic civilizations, working on overlayed networks but never gaining contact with each other. The Milky Way is 100,000-120,000 light-years in diameter, and after discovering the Mass Relays, a civilization would have little use for powerful radio- or laser communications limited by speed of light, when they have a convenient FTL communications and transportation facility at hand.
The Mass Effect galaxy is far, far too small to depict an entire galaxy of species, and it is my belief that the network of relays known in the game is only a small fraction of what is going on in the entire galaxy.
It is possible that the original Mass Relays were constructed by a single species that put them in places they deemed probable to produce life - it might explain the high ratio of habitable planets on the systems known in Mass Effect, almost every system has at least one earth-like planet on goldilocks' zone (with atmospheric pressure and temperature allowing the existence of liquid water).
There could be other relay networks, either built by the same species, or possibly built by other species utilizing the same Mass Effect technology.
Perhaps the Reapers themselves only "police" a small fraction of the galaxy - the area connected to the specific relay network constructed by the original species.
Then there is the question whether the Citadel was built by the same species as the Mass Relays. Although I doubt it has been stated anywhere, it seems a logical assumption that in canon, the Citadel, the Mass Relays, and the Reapers were all the product of same entity.
Further speculation from my part is that the Crucible was actually part of the original design specification of the Citadel, rather than an "add-on" designed by subsequent civilizations. Or, to be exact, the design specification for the Crucible was likely left behind by the original species, and later found, adapted and worked on by other civilizations until it reached its form seen in Mass Effect 3.
Its capabilities and basic functionality (such as how it interfaces with the Citadel) need to be determined; in the canon it is capable of the following remarkable feats:
1. Destruction of all synthetic life, reapers included, but somehow capable of differentiating with normal machinery and construction
2. Subjugation of all synthetic life to a deceased person's will
3. Combining all living things, organic and synthetic, into one entity of combined organic-synthetic beings that evolve using a "new DNA", whatever that's supposed to mean.
None of these options either make sense or are especially appealing to Shepard or the player, considering that two of them spell certain doom for the main character and the third one offers only a slight chance of survival depending on how much effective military strength Shepard has under control. This will likely deter many players who don't see any option as a "good" ending; I confess to being one of them. But, death by heroic sacrifice is of course a valid way of writing off a character, so I can understand Bioware doing this - except for the Conan Doyle sight of Shepard taking a breath at the Destroy ending if you have enough points...
The bigger problem for the Mass Effect universe is, obviously, the destruction of the Mass Relays themselves. There is no longer a convenient FTL comm and transport structure in place to funnel civilizations to Citadel (which also is destroyed as far as I could tell), so they are left to their own devices for untold amount of time. Building a relay network takes significant amount of time if you have to move from point A to point B at slower speed, and construct the relays at every relevant point.
So, what I see the ending having is:
-viable option to keep Shepard alive
-option that doesn't involve categoric destruction/subjugation of all synthetic life
-option that doesn't involve destruction of the relay network and the Citadel
All of these would seem to require modifications to the canon behaviour of the Crucible, most crucially, but adaptations to (or removal of) the Citadel AI are also needed. My hypothesis is that all the three modes of Crucible action utilize the energy source and relay connection provided by the Citadel, and the Crucible merely provides means of converting the energy to desired effect by magitech handwavium.
Part of the energy is released in an initial burst, and part is directed to the relay network, whereupon it causes each relay to release their energy and to convert it into the effect desired by the Crucible activator.
Matth's suggestions about using the Crucible to disrupt Reaper communications (including indoctrination) sounds viable; it could be explained that the Crucible device makes each Mass Effect relay prevent Reapers from using their communications within typical short range FTL flight range of the relay itself, so that would make the systems themselves safe from indoctrination.
This option would do nothing to the individual Reapers' capabilities in space, which is where they have proven to be the most effective and dangerous opponents. They could also reasonably easily adapt to the comms warfare - but implanting their minions with communications systems that use less easily disruptable means of communicating.
Other options would make the Crucible-Citadel some sort of Death Star (we all expected something like that, didn't we?), or some of the more drastic means of survival.
The Crucible could be a cloaking device - pack up the Citadel and hide it somewhere along with the assembled fleets. It could also double up as a warp drive of some sort, for additional range if required.
These are the voyages of the Starfleet Citadel.
Its continuing mission: To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to find habitable planets for all the species in it; to boldly go where no member of galactic civilization has gone before.
Battuta's option about blowing the **** out of Citadel itself sounds oddly appealing, even if it ends with a failure as the Reapers just shrug it off and continue harvesting. Maybe the Crucible could be used as a bomb to destroy the citadel internally, by attaching it, then closing the arms and detonating it within - perhaps shielding Earth from the explosion but destroying all the relevant hardware inside the protective arms.
EDIT: Someone mentioned the Dark Energy foreshadowing in #HLP-ME3, and Swantz posted this in the other ME3 thread:
(http://nukelol.com/images/phone_imgs/1331424507833.png)
It would certainly be a more compelling motive for the Reapers than the stuff they were given.
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Legion surviving and confront the Catalyst AI along with Shepard, or EDI, would have been interesting. Similarly, if you could bring the Geth fleet to fight the Reapers, that will also serve. The Reapers are here to protect us from the Geth and their kin, supposedly. That the Geth instead have chosen to stand with organic life against them should give them pause.
So we make the flawed nature of their philosophy an integral part of the ending. Faced with synthetics and organics shoulder-to-shoulder, the Reapers flinch. Harbinger attempts to assert his control over the other Reapers via the Crucible; some of the other Reapers attempt to declare their interest in talking via the Crucible; some of them just FTL out of the system but the Crucible can be used to track them down.
Paragon/Renegade check time: Destroy the Reapers completely while they're scattered and confused? Destroy only those that pose a direct threat and let the rest make up their own minds about what to do? Make peace with some of the Reapers and with their help defeat Harbinger and his followers?
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Herra: I saw that SomethingAwful post when it came up and honestly, no, that's even worse than what we got.
It was bad when Star Trek TNG did it and it'd be bad now.
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You know, after reading that, the only thing I can think of is Gurren Lagann...
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You know, after reading that, the only thing I can think of is Gurren Lagann...
you are the first person on the entire internet to make this comparison
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my ideal ending:
The reapers kill everyone.
There are several things you can do to try and stop them but ultimately all of them are fruitless. Also there is no ending cutscene, the end of the game is just an infinite gauntlet of progressively more impossible waves of enemies. It'd be a nice slap in the face from a series that has emphasized that your actions have consequences.
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It'd be a nice slap in the face from a series that has emphasized that your actions have consequences.
And then we end up making this thread over again. GOOD JOB.
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why would I want to consider what you want in my ideal ending? Still, didn't really not expect that kind of response, especially considering I never really had any intention of posting a popular ending. :p
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why would I want to consider what you want in my ideal ending?
I dunno, why would anyone want to consider what makes a fitting end to a series in their conception of an ideal ending? :p You pretty much outlined why that doesn't fit in your own post.
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:( that's why I like it so much. The player has spent so much time playing through the series and grooming his saves, but in the end there are some things you just can't do!
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:( that's why I like it so much. The player has spent so much time playing through the series and grooming his saves, but in the end there are some things you just can't do!
Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.
They make the MMO impossible.
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Thinking about it, a better ending would be that the Crucible is mutually assured destruction. The Arrival acts as foreshadowing for the crucible.
If activated it will use the Citadel to activate and detonate every relay in the galaxy, wiping out the Reapers and all organic life. The relays will vaporize entire systems making it impossible for complex life to continue to evolve. Shepard realizes this and endings are based on the war preparation score.
Too low of an EMS, the Crucible is damaged and automatically fires. In this ending Shepard barely gets a message through to joker telling him to get the hell out of there, anywhere as fast as he can. Joker responds that he's rescued as much of Hammer as he could, and reads you then it gets jammed as the Crucible builds up. The Normandy tries to outrun the shockwave and crashes on an unknown planet like in the current ending with their descendants being those who restart galactic civilization.
At a higher EMS it charges and Shepard is given a few flashes from the crucible's VI (in a manner similar to the beacon) and realizes what it really does.
Then a hologram of Harbinger shows up Harbinger possesses the Illusive Man's corpse (like Sovereign did with Saren) in order to try to stop Shepard from firing the Crucible (some paragon and renegade interrupts with a half dead Shepard trying to fight a Harbinger possessed husk. It ends with crippling his limbs and being disabled). Shepard threatens to use the crucible and end the cycle forever since *ALL* life and the Reapers will be gone from the cascade of relay destruction.
Throughout this you can use MAD to make the Reapers leave: "if you ever return we'll use the Crucible" and Harbinger menacingly says that this isn't over, your civilization will eventually forget and then they will return.
The ultimate ending would be convincing the Reapers that their logic is flawed based off of your uniting the galaxy, organics and synthetics, and either A) convincing them to self shutdown or B) convincing Harbinger that Shepard has done the Reaper's task better than them and that Shepard will be the template for a Reaper provided they leave (this then has sub renegade endings where you use the other Reapers for human supremacy or just have them leave for when they are needed).
This then cuts to a final end scene of everyone in the ruins of London with Hackett, Victus, and Wrex giving a speech about the sacrifices made and the need to rebuild. You see your other squad mates with the love interest crying if Shepard joins with the Reapers. Otherwise the camera slowly pans past all of them looking solemn with slightly sad music and then *bam* Shepard, looking beat up as hell but in uniform and it becomes clear that this is Anderson's funeral. With the Shepard Reaper ending it cuts to the love interest turning around and seeing a single Sovereign type Reaper that is still on Earth that then slowly rises into the sky.
Final scene is the Normandy flying into the sunset over Earth with a reprise of the main Mass Effect theme.
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Wow, that's....****ing awesome.
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..........Agreed.
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Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life.
Eventually, conflict is inevitable.
Competition and expansion will see to that.
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And if oyu want a better ME ending, get rid of hte stupid Crucible/Gardian.
Citadel alive? Citadel a master controller for reapers? WTF?? And they leave it for 50.000 years in the hands of organics????
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Wow, that's....****ing awesome.
Eh... fighting another possesed Saren? No thanks.
Talking thousands of super-ships with the intellect of entire races into suicide? No thanks. That reeks of Shepard talk-jitsu Mary Sue super pwoer mroe than anything else.
There is suprisingly little that needs to be changed for the endings to make sense (and I'm talking about sense, NOT making the endings someones wish-fulfillment. I don't think a "happy" ending is necessary at all - and it isn't.)
You could just have the races fight of the reapers unsucesfully, and their last gambit is using the Citadel to overload all relays and blast the reapers, but at hte cost of destroign the mass relays (no guaridna, catalyst of crucible needed).
You can have Shep side with TIM and help him get control over the reapers. Or double-cross him and get control over them yourself.
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Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life.
Eventually, conflict is inevitable.
Competition and expansion will see to that.
Your reasoning assumes that expansion will be an important motivator. That may not necessarily be the case, but even if it is, like said, it only leads to conflict of interests. Conflict of interest does not equate to violent conflict; there are other solutions, such as symbiotic relationship, co-operation, forming alliances etc.
Even in a situation where the conflict cannot be resolved with non-violent solutions, escalation to violent conflict does not necessarily equate to definite victory of one side - that usually requires that the winning side has some significant advantage in numbers, resources or technological level. And, even then, this does not necessarily mean that the losing party would be completely exterminated.
And, finally, even if the losing party were to be exterminated, this doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad thing. Takeovers of ecological lockers happen all the time in evolutionary history. What the Reapers are doing is forcing their own perception of "good" on the evolution of galactic civilizations by assigning an arbitrary technological advancement level on organic life; when a civilization reaches a certain level of advancement, they are destroyed.
This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.
If the natural process tends to lead to synthetic life taking over and rendering organic life obsolete, then so be it. Why is this a bad thing? No one ever said why the Reapers seem so convinced about that. If synthetic life takes over the ecologic locker in the galaxy and renders organic life obsolete, then it is just one step in the natural process of evolution and nothing to really fuss over - it would be analogous to fish taking over from crustaceans, or dinosaurs becoming supreme land animals over amphibians and earlier reptiles.
If the Reapers are worried about loss of variety of life, they need not be - at some point, synthetic life forms occupying the galaxy will start to exhibit just as much variation as organic life; they will have their own cultures, factions, wars and diplomacy.
There's nothing significant that would make synthetic life somehow less valuable than organic life. To say otherwise requires placing some inherent value on organic life as opposed to synthetic, and it's hard to do that when there's not even a clear definition what life is, nevermind differences between synthetic and organic life.
Obviously each species and culture have a right to fight for their survival, but the Reapers really have no place acting as the Evolution Police of the galaxy, and with any sort of logical processing they would realize this.
This is why I think their motivation as portrayed in ME3 is not exactly ideal, and I would love to think that there is more to them than that.
For example, maybe they are simply obsessed by archiving successful species' genetics and behavioural patterns on a certain time period.
Perhaps they simply value variety of life, and wish to see continuous stream of new species forming new cultures, as opposed to hegemonic structures stifling everything else, like the Prothean culture seems to have done.
Or maybe they have some goal of their own that requires harvesting successful species and creating Reapers based on them. It might not even be necessary to reveal that.
Maybe the Citadel AI could be a VI instead, and when asked WHY the reapers need to convert organic life to Reapers it could answer "No data available".
I always loved that response from Legion when he didn't really know what to say.
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What the Reapers are doing is forcing their own perception of "good" on the evolution of galactic civilizations by assigning an arbitrary technological advancement level on organic life; when a civilization reaches a certain level of advancement, they are destroyed.
Don't we all?
[qutoe]
This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.[/quote]
Evolution? How is it "meddling"?
If sinethetics destroying organics is part of "evolution", then reapers meddling is also part of "evolution".
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This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.
Evolution? How is it "meddling"?
If sinethetics destroying organics is part of "evolution", then reapers meddling is also part of "evolution".
Valid point, except the Reapers are not an active participant for the most of the galaxy's evolution. They spend their time mostly in dark space, in hibernation, not doing any evolving of their own, then they come back every 50,000 years and harvest the **** out of the prominent galactic civilization, stopping the advancement of those civilizations.
The Reapers are not evolving. They resort to multiplying by harvesting organic life, converting them into Reapers, rather than developing themselves as they build new variations of themselves.
Thus, the Reaper evolution is only happening as far as the evolution of organic life allows. And, the timeframe of the cycle means that statistically the spacefaring cultures won't be free to evolve - there's only 50,000 years between the harvest cycles, so the Reapers are not only constricting their own evolution, but also the evolution of life (both organic and synthetic) within the influence of mass relay network.
Thankfully, the rest of the galaxy will be blissfully ignorant and free of this ridiculous stagnation that the Reapers are enforcing on the species unlucky enough to come from planets close to the relay network.
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Which is irrlevant.
Doesn't matter if you consider what reapers do "evolution" or not.
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Just watch this re-edited ending instead. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoVnvJ4OxRg)
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I'm not reading anything, as i've not finished it yet....
Buuuuuuut, my ending would be as follows...
Lady Shepherd and Miranda [redacted] forcefully [redacted] sideways [redacted] omni-tool [redacted][redacted] yelped [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]Ashley grabbed her [redacted] smiled [redacted] Liara, Tali and Jack all appeared by wizard magic wielding [redacted[ wearing [redacted] When Kelly Chambers came in to the room begging Miranda to [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted] CUSTARD!
[redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted]Smoking a cigarette in a most unusual [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted].
The end :yes:
Samantha Traynor too. :nervous:
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I'm not reading anything, as i've not finished it yet....
Buuuuuuut, my ending would be as follows...
Lady Shepherd and Miranda [redacted] forcefully [redacted] sideways [redacted] omni-tool [redacted][redacted] yelped [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]Ashley grabbed her [redacted] smiled [redacted] Liara, Tali and Jack all appeared by wizard magic wielding [redacted[ wearing [redacted] When Kelly Chambers came in to the room begging Miranda to [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted] CUSTARD!
[redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted]Smoking a cigarette in a most unusual [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted].
The end :yes:
Samantha Traynor too. :nervous:
BEST....ENDING...EVER!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Wow, that's....****ing awesome.
Eh... fighting another possesed Saren? No thanks.
Talking thousands of super-ships with the intellect of entire races into suicide? No thanks. That reeks of Shepard talk-jitsu Mary Sue super pwoer mroe than anything else.
There is suprisingly little that needs to be changed for the endings to make sense (and I'm talking about sense, NOT making the endings someones wish-fulfillment. I don't think a "happy" ending is necessary at all - and it isn't.)
You could just have the races fight of the reapers unsucesfully, and their last gambit is using the Citadel to overload all relays and blast the reapers, but at hte cost of destroign the mass relays (no guaridna, catalyst of crucible needed).
You can have Shep side with TIM and help him get control over the reapers. Or double-cross him and get control over them yourself.
You're entitled to your own opinion but it fits more with the feeling of the rest of the game and the callbacks to Mass Effect 1.
The ongoing repeated theme of the game is also "there must be another way" and giving Shepard his John J. "Nuke 'Em" Sheridan "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" moment fits well with that theme and the overall pulpy feeling of the setting. If talking the Reapers to death is Shepard wank why isn't curing the genophage, or uniting the Quarians and Geth? It's all about a single person being at the right place at the right time.
Shepard being able to use the Catalyst (the culmination of all past cycles) as a threat and showing to the Reapers that synthetics and organics don't have to be at odds fits with the themes.
Of course this does bring up one issue with the moved citadel, the Reapers also typically shut down the relay system at the start of the extinction cycle. I was a bit surprised there wasn't a line that the Relays were shut down when the Reapers took the Citadel but Shepard's Reaper IFF let the fleet reach Earth.
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/This-guy-got-the-ending-right--9833130-1.html
A very good fan ending. This is almost precisely what I was actually expecting.
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You're entitled to your own opinion but it fits more with the feeling of the rest of the game and the callbacks to Mass Effect 1.
The ongoing repeated theme of the game is also "there must be another way" and giving Shepard his John J. "Nuke 'Em" Sheridan "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" moment fits well with that theme and the overall pulpy feeling of the setting.
Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.
And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
If talking the Reapers to death is Shepard wank why isn't curing the genophage, or uniting the Quarians and Geth? It's all about a single person being at the right place at the right time.
A lot of stuff is Shepard wank. and it's no about being in the right place at the right time - it's about being able to convince anyone of everything. Having God-like persuasion power.
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Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.
They make the MMO impossible.
Only if the internet backlash is representative and the IP's cachet has taken massive damage. Otherwise:
EA Corporate: ME MMO. Make it happen.
Writers: But we can't because
EA Corporate: Me boss, you employee. Make it happen. You're a writer, write something.
But I don't think a ME MMO is likely. It'd have to be voiced, which means you're looking at another SW:TOR. Sure, you can cut costs by borrowing technology from that game, but you're still talking about making a ludicrously expensive game when it's not even clear that the first ludicrously expensive game is going to be profitable.
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Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.
They make the MMO impossible.
Only if the internet backlash is representative and the IP's cachet has taken massive damage. Otherwise:
EA Corporate: ME MMO. Make it happen.
Writers: But we can't because
EA Corporate: Me boss, you employee. Make it happen. You're a writer, write something.
But I don't think a ME MMO is likely. It'd have to be voiced, which means you're looking at another SW:TOR. Sure, you can cut costs by borrowing technology from that game, but you're still talking about making a ludicrously expensive game when it's not even clear that the first ludicrously expensive game is going to be profitable.
Also borrowing technology from TOR is a bad idea, because the Obvious Beta engine sucks. If there was an ME MMO, keep in mind that it wouldn't necessarily have to be fully voiced. Theoretically, if I were a dev, I'd actually avoid the main ME story and maaaybe consider having the main characters make cameos, but that's it. Mostly, you run into the problem of the fact that there couldn't be a canon Shep.
Bit more OT: if BioWare releases DLC with the "real" ending, then that will earn them the Troll of the Year award and Magnificent Bastard status.
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Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.
And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Citation needed.
(you also need a spellchecker really badly too)
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Citation for what? That having no ending wihout considerable sacrifice possible is a valid way to end a story?
Or for the theme? IF it's that, I want to see your citation for what the theme is...
Now, if it were up to me, I'd do a lot of thigns differently. The kid wouldn't be as prominent. No dreams. The kid would die before the Normandy arrives, Anderson and Shep watching impotently from the building. They'd talk about Anderson stying behind as they wait for the Normandy. The Normandy would swoop in and out, no howering, no waiting. A ship or two would sacrifice themselves to draw attention from the Normandy.
No kid guardian. No citadel being alive or a mster cotnrol unit for reapers. No repaers beign stupidly stupid. No robo-EDI.
TIM isnt' indoctrinated, Cerberus working with you..untill the end. THEN they stab you if you disagree with TIM about control. And you have to fight them. Then you can destroy the reapers or try to control them yourself.
If you agree they work with you (some aliens might object tough) and TIM gains control of the reapers.
No magical space magic synthsis. Reapers making some DAMN SENSE. Kai Leng does die as stupidly. Has more development. No Normandy crash-landing.
Mass Relays blowing up - can stay.
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/This-guy-got-the-ending-right--9833130-1.html
A very good fan ending. This is almost precisely what I was actually expecting.
I personally don't like it. Better than the current one, but I still don't like it.
It triviliazes the reapers and again makes the "hard" choices irrelevant.
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Citation for what?
Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.
And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Kinda makes me wonder if you actually read what you post sometimes.
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No kid guardian. No citadel being alive or a mster cotnrol unit for reapers. No repaers beign stupidly stupid. No robo-EDI.
TIM isnt' indoctrinated, Cerberus working with you..untill the end. THEN they stab you if you disagree with TIM about control.
Cerberus was necessary to have variety in missions and targets. However, what should have been clear from dialog (TIM holograms at the end of missions when you beat them) is that he is interfering with Shepard's efforts to unite species because he's using them all as canon fodder to buy more time. The Krogan helping the Turians or destroying the Reaper on Tuchanka will make the Reapers shift to a real offensive instead of feeling confident in their supremacy, and everyone looses.
Shepard obviously doesn't buy that and continues the line of "you're wasting resources that should be used to help humanity!" That would be combined with "You can't understand the sacrifices I'm having to make for yoo-manity, Shepard hope you never do." sort of deal.
As it is, it seems that he's not indoctrinated until he modifies himself after Thessia. But it would have been nice to have a few more dialogs to hammer that home and how is "screw all other species I need to buy myself more time for my plans" is the issue.
I would have downplayed the Alliance thinking Cerberus is outright working for the Reapers and played up that Cerberus had a massive boost from "Shepard was right, Shepard supported Cerberus!" but realizing that this was all TIM's plan to appear legitimate while doing utterly horrific things in the name of controling the Reapers.
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Citation for what?
Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.
And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Kinda makes me wonder if you actually read what you post sometimes.
You want me to provide citation for what the devs did? This IS how ME3 ends. What citation do you need? :wtf:
They made the end they wanted. The end ALWAYS involves great sacrifice and destruction fo mass relays.
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Cerberus was necessary to have variety in missions and targets.
BULL****!
Nothing is "necessary". You're telling me bioWare couldn't have comed up with different enemies? Like indoctrinated aliens of all races?
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Like indoctrinated aliens of all races?
Uuuhhhhh..... :nervous:
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Like indoctrinated aliens of all races?
Uuuhhhhh..... :nervous:
Indoctrinated peoples of all races. Happy now?
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Like indoctrinated aliens of all races?
Uuuhhhhh..... :nervous:
Indoctrinated peoples of all races. Happy now?
I'm not sure what you mean by indoctrinated. Husk representation of different species is quite high already.
The only missing ones are small species like Hanar, Drell, Elcor, Volus, Vorcha, and of course Salarians. They made husks of Human, Turian, Asari, Krogan, Batarian and Rachni origin.
Out of the missing species, Salarians are the only council species and likely the only one with numbers to make any difference. Their homeworld was not invaded so it makes sense to not have husks based on them - Asari husks only appeared after the Ardat-Yakshi monastery was invaded by the Reapers, and Turian husks started appearing on Palaven.
One might make an argument that Elcor husks could have made an appearance after the Reapers invaded their planet, but they already had Brutes and Ravagers, and Elcor husks would have likely been rather similar to either of those two enemies. I think the Vorcha were too primitive for the Reapers to pay any attention to them (same as with the Yahg), and they probably couldn't figure out any use for Volus husks.
Drell husks might have been useful as sort of analogy to the Phantoms from Cerberus, but again Drell have a very small population living on the same planet as Hanar, and I didn't hear anything from that planet being invaded during the game. And Hanar husks would be all sorts of ridiculous anyway.
Point is, the Reaper faction has quite a solid representation in the game, and adding husks of the rest of the species would not have added any substantial variety to that.
Indoctrinated people would make sense if there were populations that were in contact with Reapers or Reaper technology, that somehow managed to not be stomped on by the Reapers or being huskified by the Reapers. By the time of ME3, they are actively invading so odds of finding that kind of situation are sort of low. That made sense in ME1 and ME2, but in ME3, huskified enemies are more likely than merely indoctrinated.
Besides you could make an argument that Cerberus is an indoctrinated human faction, sort of. There's really no similar justification for indoctrinated enemies from other species, but even if there were, what would that accomplish?
Cerberus is a good enemy faction from gameplay perspective. Whether you consider Illusive Man's motives sensible or not is a different matter.
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Indoctrinated peoples of all races. Happy now?
I'm not sure what you mean by indoctrinated. Husk representation of different species is quite high already.
I mean INDOCTRINATED. Not huskified.
Like the doctor in Arrival.
Regular people who do the reapers bidding.
That made sense in ME1 and ME2, but in ME3, huskified enemies are more likely than merely indoctrinated.
Not really. Indoctrinated can infiltrate, sabotage and devide and weaken the enemy from within. Husks are not suited for that job.
And didn't Vigil CLEARLY state the reapers used indoctrinated protheans?
Cerberus is a good enemy faction from gameplay perspective. Whether you consider Illusive Man's motives sensible or not is a different matter.
Every opponent is good from a gameplay perspective. Facing a cerberus commando or an Asari commando - an enemy is an enemy.
And no, I can't say I consider anything Bioware did with TIM or Cerberus sensible or good. They wasted them.
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This thread's getting ****ty.
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I can think of several reasons why indoctrinating groups of people might be hard for the Reapers to accomplish, or grossly inconvenient compared to just using husks.
The strategic position of Reapers in Mass Effect 3 is vastly different than in the previous cycle against the Protheans. Similarly, the astropolitical environment is not exactly the same as with the Protheans. Protheans had a galactic hegemony going on, while in this cycle there's more of a loose union between the species. This means that while the Council has the supreme authority in Council space, each species still has their own government and the associated bureaucracy; even if the Citadel had fallen, there would be redundant archives of the population; they could keep track of their colonies, and would be extremely suspicious of people who had disappeared for a time, especially if their last known location had been Reaper-occupied system.
Remember that the Protheans did a great service to the current cycle by disarming the citadel's relay functions. Sovereign had to react to that by recruiting Saren, and while they were trying to figure out where Ilos was to gain control of Citadel, they got uncovered and eventually defeated. In the process, the galactic civilization learned a lot of the Reapers and indoctrination, by proxy of Shepard. They may not have believed Shepard, but the information was there nonetheless, and it only got refined during the events of Mass Effect 2 - in which Harbinger's attempts to create another "Inside Reaper" failed, whatever point that would have served. It would have been more effective if the Reapers had just appeared out of dark space at Alpha Relay without ME2 events giving further warning and intelligence..
The Protheans were taken totally by surprise, and by what I interpreted, the Citadel served as the hub for most of their government. They had no forewarning whatsoever, they had no idea what indoctrination was, and therefore it was also a surprise to them that the Reapers could turn their own people against them. By the time of ME3, the effects and dangers of indoctrination are fairly well documented already, although the Batarians' meddling with the Leviathan of Dis belies a staggering ignorance on the matter.
Add to that the fact that Protheans probably had a lot more raw military power than the current cycle, as evidenced by the fact that even with their government taken out in the initial strike to Citadel, they still fought for hundreds of years before their final defeat. The Reapers had a lot of time to try something more sophisticated than just turning everything into husks, whereas in ME3 the conflict is still in its beginning stages - and the Reapers may simply not have seen any need for convoluted operations to capture and indoctrinate people and then re-introduce them back to population as their agents.
I'm not saying that the Reapers couldn't have done that, but I can see why they didn't bother.
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Well, they had been meddling with the Leviathan of Dis since before ME1 - so since before Indoctrination was brought to the attention of the Galactic Governments, and by that point, the indoctrinated Batarians probably instigated a huge cover up on exactly what the Leviathan was.
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Well, they had been meddling with the Leviathan of Dis since before ME1 - so since before Indoctrination was brought to the attention of the Galactic Governments, and by that point, the indoctrinated Batarians probably instigated a huge cover up on exactly what the Leviathan was.
Assuming it's a Reaper, which it may not have been.
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Well, they had been meddling with the Leviathan of Dis since before ME1 - so since before Indoctrination was brought to the attention of the Galactic Governments, and by that point, the indoctrinated Batarians probably instigated a huge cover up on exactly what the Leviathan was.
Assuming it's a Reaper, which it may not have been.
Nah, it's explicitly stated to be a Reaper in one of the side quests.
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Nah, it's explicitly stated to be a Reaper in one of the side quests.
Hmm. Explains why the Batarians fell so fast, maybe, but...
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Nah, it's explicitly stated to be a Reaper in one of the side quests.
Hmm. Explains why the Batarians fell so fast, maybe, but...
Yeah, the Batarian who explains it says it indoctrinated their entire scientific and military leadership just by proximity. Whoops!
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By the time of ME3, the effects and dangers of indoctrination are fairly well documented already, although the Batarians' meddling with the Leviathan of Dis belies a staggering ignorance on the matter.
Yeah..kinda not really... Everyone who seesm ot know about the reapers still ends up getting indoctrinated. No one knows how to coutner it.
And having a bunch of "plants" worshiping you like a god inflitrate the resistance, is a valid and effective strategy in any situation.
Add to that the fact that Protheans probably had a lot more raw military power than the current cycle, as evidenced by the fact that even with their government taken out in the initial strike to Citadel, they still fought for hundreds of years before their final defeat.
The galaxy is big. Lots of places to hide. A simple clean-up job where you're hunting down the last stragglers coudl take hunders of years.
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Yeah, the Batarian who explains it says it indoctrinated their entire scientific and military leadership just by proximity. Whoops!
It occurs to me there were better ways to use such an asset then they actually did, though.
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[tongue firmly in cheek here]
I like Penny Arcade's take on the "leaked" ending:
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/03/16
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The Indoctrination Theory on the Bioware forums is extremely compelling to me, to the point that I'm thinking it may very well be true.
In short, the Indoctrination theory suggests that the moment Shepard gets hit by Harbinger's beam (who has been surprisingly quiet in ME3) he enters a hallucinatory state due to blood loss and indoctrination, which is why people noted that various elements of everything happening when on the Citadel is extremely similar to the final events with Saren in ME1.
The Star Child thing represents the kid he saw get blow up in the first mission.
The choice you make represents if you, the player and Shepard are indoctrinated - Control and Synergy being what the Reapers stand for and Destroy the act of resistance.
A Epilogue DLC has it's precedence though, it wouldn't be the first time something similar to this occured. Kinda similar to Fallout 3's Broken Steel.
Link: http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423
EDIT:
Link2: http://m.fanfiction.net/s/7920772/1/%20theory Gives basic explanation, better than mine.
First post should have a decent list of things mentioned for quicker reading.
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Have you guys considered everyone comes back to life/was just knocked out? What about it was all a dream? Sounds like you're on the right track :yes:
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The Indoctrination Theory on the Bioware forums is extremely compelling to me, to the point that I'm thinking it may very well be true.
In short, the Indoctrination theory suggests that the moment Shepard gets hit by Harbinger's beam (who has been surprisingly quiet in ME3) he enters a hallucinatory state due to blood loss and indoctrination, which is why people noted that various elements of everything happening when on the Citadel is extremely similar to the final events with Saren in ME1.
The Star Child thing represents the kid he saw get blow up in the first mission.
The choice you make represents if you, the player and Shepard are indoctrinated - Control and Synergy being what the Reapers stand for and Destroy the act of resistance.
A Epilogue DLC has it's precedence though, it wouldn't be the first time something similar to this occured. Kinda similar to Fallout 3's Broken Steel.
Link: http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423
EDIT:
Link2: http://m.fanfiction.net/s/7920772/1/%20theory Gives basic explanation, better than mine.
First post should have a decent list of things mentioned for quicker reading.
The Indoctrination Theory is bull**** made up by desperate fans. I'll laugh pretty hard if BioWare pretends they intended to do it all along, though.
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The Indoctrination Theory is bull**** made up by desperate fans. I'll laugh pretty hard if BioWare pretends they intended to do it all along, though.
Well, if Bioware doesn't play along with it, it'll end up as an alternate interpretation of the ending (which makes a lot more sense than taking the ending at face value, especially considering the internal inconsistencies in it).
I'm not so sure that Shepard is being indoctrinated, however. It could be any number of reasons why she's hallucinating, starting from stress, physical trauma, and having some consequences from getting the Beacon shoved into her brain, then dying, getting resurrected and subjected to all sorts of horrifying things.
Or, it could be just a dream. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. :p
The God Child is really weird though. Not only does no one else but Shepard interact with him, he also makes an appearance in the middle of the Prologue scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODsFIdcbm3U) where Shepard and Anderson are running on the rooftops - somehow, he made his way to the other side of the building, unassisted, presumably partially through the air ducts in the building. Then he enters a sealed balcony, opens a locked door, and gets inside.
Either that kid is a champion at duct crawling, Bioware dun goofed up again, or he's not real...
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Actually a proper, planned, indoctrination ending would have been awesome beyond belief. Combining the dream sequences with the code-like things from Overlord and the Rannoch missions. If you're going to do a 2001 style open ended ending go balls to the walls crazy.
Entering the Conduit and everything becoming strange and abstract while Anderson describes what is really there (you see a dead forest full of corpses and the child, Anderson describes it being like the Collector base) would have worked.
Basically you "move to the light" in the forest, things break down into a mix of Reaper code and citadel corridors, you then meet up with the Illusive man in a room much like the current one, and still do the Star child ending with the kid and the "choices" but hint that all of them but destroy are Reaper traps.
Then just axe the Normandy crashing part of the ending and add monologue voiceovers during the credits of each non-Shep character outlining Shep's impact on the galaxy from the perspective of an unknown period of time in the future.
That way you get the "artsy" ending, while Anderson and the monologues give a reality check and closure. (no monologues for Control/Synthesis endings suggesting that the galaxy is dead and the Reapers win)
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Marauder Shields Comics
http://koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/
I enjoy this more than the actual ending.
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HOLD THE LINE
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:wtf: :wtf:
Oh boy.....this...is getting damn silly.
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HOLD THE LINE
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Priceless :)
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Priceless :)
In a sarcastic way?... or?
IMHO, all the "hold the line" and "re-take ME3" pleople...scare me. ... In the Charlie Sheen kinda way.
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If we need your opinion we'll promote you to admiral, now just bring your hating business elsewhere.
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I've been HOLDING THE LINE also, whilst at the same time working on writing my own ending. A conversation with Harbinger had to happen.
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If we need your opinion we'll promote you to admiral, now just bring your hating business elsewhere.
Give this man a beer. Make it two.
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HOLD THE BEER
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KEEP THE BEER COMING WHILE HOLDING THE LINE
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SNORT THE LINE
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FART THE LINE
WE WILL MAKE IT SMELL SO BAD THAT BIOWARE WILL NEVER WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH US AGAIN
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I just wait until Bioware brings the 'official' ending DLC for free...
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HOLD THE LINE
I prefer my commentary when Ash got hurt on Mars.
GODDAMMIT MARINE I DID NOT DRAG MY ASS THROUGH THE LAST TWO GAMES FOR YOU TO DIE LIKE A ***** ON ME.
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Another idea for replacing the kid after the first shephard dream:
The squadmates talk to him in his dreams. 'Shephard, you let us all die.' - maybe the deceased ones talking to him and as the game progresses more join the dream blaming Shephard for not saving the galaxy. I also think that would be a good idea for the crucible: Every few words it changes form to another person Shephard knows, playing mind tricks on him.
(it also would've been cool if Harbinger slowly approaches from earth and you can see him coming closer in the background while talking to the crucible). Then there is some final talk between you three and THEN there is the big finale. Harbinger trying to kill Shephard, the crucible trying to do... well talk to Shephard. And Shephard trying to make a final decision (that includes only the red ending and two new ones I've not thought about ^^)
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Necro time!
Yes, yes I'm late to this party, but it took me a while to really collect my thoughts on what "my" ending would look like. That, and the fact that strong rumors of extended-ending DLC actually got me thinking about this particular issue in the first place.
Obviously, THIS POST IS MADE OF SPOILERS.
I'm superficially ok with the *options* presented in the original ending (Destroy, Control, or Synthesis), and the circumstances during the finale. However, it's when I'm done and doing something else that the fridge logic kicks in, and I say to myself, "Hey, that only kinda made sense." There are a few prongs on which the fridge logic attacks, but rather than enumerating them all right here, let's just jump into my revised ending sequence, and we can address various ....imperfections as they pop up.
First, I would not change anything until the final gunfight, just before the Spire run. All my changes would begin just before the Spire run.
WORST ENDING - YOU LOSE!
Conditions: Insufficient/Low Military Strength
Summary: Just after the destruction of the Reaper Destroyer blocking the Spire, a cataclysmic explosion lights the skies above Earth and a transmission crackles in from Admiral Hackett. He bears the worst news possible- Reaper forces have destroyed the Crucible! All allied forces are immediately struck with panic and despair as the Reapers begin a counterattack. Shepard's ground team begins a retreat when a particularly familiar Capital Reaper slams down in front of Shepard- it's Harbinger, in the flesh! Harbinger gloats and taunts Shepard before preparing a deadly energy beam.
As the beam charges, Shepard has a chance to respond:
Paragon- Boils down to "Even if we lose, *somebody* will beat the Reapers eventually!", and stands resolute in the face of the looming cosmic horror.
Renegade- Shepard prepares his biggest power or weapon and defiantly attacks Harbinger to the tune of a classy "**** you!" while heroic tears of sorrow-rage stream down Shepard's face.
Harbinger's beam continues charging and time slows down, the camera then cuts to one of the squaddies you took on the final mission dying. Cut to the other squaddie death cutscene (I'll detail these later). Shepard staring down/ attacking Harbinger. Admiral Hackett's flagship being torn apart by Reaper forces, see Hackett on the ravaged bridge of his ship just before it explodes. Shepard shooting/ being stoic again. Anderson and the Earth Resistance being overrun by swarms of Reaper troops. A mortally wounded Normandy beset by Oculi and Harvesters, desperately fleeing a Capital Reaper. Cut to Joker in the cockpit, eyes wide in terror as the pursuing Reaper begins to fire. Joker's eye fades into the Reaper's gunbarrel, a bolt of energy lances out and slices the Normandy to shreds. That same angle (for the bolt) is maintained as Harbinger finally vaporizes Shepard and the screen "burns" to white.
Postgame: A text crawl, similar to the opening cutscene describes how the Reapers go about consuming all the remaining high civilizations in the galaxy. The text is interspersed with details to each locale, and short cutscenes for each homeworld.
Specific Squaddie Death Scenes:
Kaidan- Cut into a desperate fight with Kaidan fighting like a demon, shooting several enemies expertly and flinging biotic powers all over the place once his gun overheats. He takes a couple of hits when a Banshee charges at him. Kaidan throws a biotic field to hold the creature back, but the Banshee throws its own field in an attempt to overwhelm Kaidan. Eventually Kaidan tires and is violently flung into a nearby wall, sickeningly twisting one of his legs beneath him. He keeps his gaze to the ground as Cannibals and Marauders raise their weapons and gun him down.
Tali- Bearing a cracked faceplate and fighting with a pistol in one hand and her omni-tool in the other, Tali does a pretty good job of holding back low-level Reaper troops... until a Brute blindsides her and throws her to the ground. The sharp crack of shattering glass can be heard as she hits the ground. Cut in close- upper left section of her faceplace is gone, and we get a fleeting glimpse at her eye, now bloodied and bruised. Now visibly injured, Tali struggles to her feet and tries to take down that Brute, but ultimately to no avail as it overpowers her.
Liara- Visibly shaken severely by the Crucible's destruction, we first see her on the run from some Reaper troops. Flight overrides Fight as Liara tries to gain some ground. Soon an all-too-familiar shriek pierces the air and a Banshee lumbers out right in Liara's path. Suppressing a scream, she makes a too-sharp turn and slips. She scrambles to her feet, but it's too late- the monster pops up behind Liara and grabs her. Remembering Thessia and the Ardat-Yakshi monastery, Liara just loses it. The Banshee grabs Liara's face, and the screams and shrieking become nearly impossible to separate. Cut to Liara's dangling legs- a sickening CRACK cuts short all the screams and the legs stop struggling.
Garrus- We see Garrus holding a barricade with some other Alliance troops, all of them fighting back a horde of husks and troops. Cut to an elevated view from a ruined building, and we hear the trademark electronic mumbling of a Marauder. The Marauder raises a rifle to firing position, and we see through the scope. Garrus pops up to shoot a husk, and the Marauder fires, expertly doming Garrus. He falls stiffly forward, landing facedown in the grit.
Vega- He's already right in the thick of a crowd of various husks, fighting like a demi-krogan. Vega ragedozes through the Reaper lines, no objective, no goal aside from staying alive and killing as much as he can. He puts muscle to use just as much as his guns, taking hits here or there, but a deep mechanical roar momentarily stops all fighting parties. Titanic footsteps foreshadow a Reaper Destroyer emerging from behind a building, glaring right at this offending human. Realizing that his life is absolutely at an end, Vega starts priming and dropping all the grenades he can grab. A stray shot drops him to a knee as he primes his last explosive... "loco...." he whispers before dropping the last grenade. The grenade leaves his hand, and everything in burned to white.
Ashley- We see Ash with a small group of holdouts; she's picking off Reaper troops with a sniper rifle (whatever the player equipped her with). A Brute smashes through a wall, tackling Ash and shoving her against a nearby, sturdier wall. She kept the presence of mind to hold onto her weapon, and with reasonable calmness shoves the barrel into the creature's face and re-arranges its thoughts. With a bullet. Once the behemoth falls, she manages to wriggle free and turns to see her squad overrun, Reaper troops advancing directly at her. Before Ash can raise her weapon or do anything, a Cannibal decks her hard in the side of the head with its weapon. Ash falls to the ground unconscious as assorted husks crowd around her.
Javik- Before the Crucible explodes, he's really tearing it up. Throwing husks all over the place and gunning down other creatures with his typically calm, ruthless efficiency. Once the Crucible detonates, however, he starts getting flashbacks. The Prothean Crucible being destroyed 50 millennia ago, his comrades-in-arms dying, and that signature Reaper roar. A Capital Reaper screams down from orbit to that same dread roar, and losing to the Reapers twice is just too much for the ancient warrior to handle. Javik falls to his knees, gibbering, whimpering, begging for mercy. Utterly in his own world, the last Prothean's last moments are of sheerest stark terror before being mercifully finished off by a Marauder's pitiless gun.
EDI- She puts her multitude of technology skills to use to destroy Reaper troops, a gout of flame here, an utterly convincing holographic decoy there, a computer-assisted headshot right in front of the camera. Nonetheless, despite her AI mind, EDI still shows some fear and desperation.... until a monstrous pillar of steel slams to the ground before her. EDI is momentarily paralyzed by the Capital Reaper's appearance, and that moment is all the Lovecraftian nightmare needs. EDI suddenly drops her weapon, and takes her head in both hands, in obvious pain. She suddenly throws her head back as a sickly aura glows around her. EDI relaxes, lifts her head to the camera, and opens her eyes, which now glow with an unearthly yellow corona.
Whew! Ok, that was a lot. But I assure you, the rest of the scenarios won't take nearly as long to detail. Largely because fewer people die.
Moving on...
BAD ENDING- DESTROY REDUX
Honestly, this wouldn't be all that different from the original implementation. Well, there would be no Catalyst. As implemented, I think the Catalyst was kind of hokey at best.
Conditions: Minimally passable Military Strength; Fail a difficult Persuasion check (see next ending for details)
Summary: Spire run goes down mostly normally, except that you're dodging Oculus beams rather than Capital Reaper beams. Because obviously, if you see a Reaper on the ground, by rights you should be dead very, very soon. Near the end, you take an unlucky hit that wipes out most of the people around Shep, critically wounds your squaddies, blah blah blah. Shepard gets back up, fight the Three Huskateers and Marauder Shields while badly injured, enters the Sipre and gets to the Citadel, then has the original showdown with the Illusive Man. TIM either shoots himself (via persuasion) or Shep shoots him, ok what am I changing here? First TIM was wrong, the Reapers can't be controlled. F'kin duh. The Crucible has only one function- to kill the **** out of all the Reapers in the galaxy via the mass relays. Oh, and what *was* the Catalyst after all? Somebody to push the big red button. Those crazy Protheans! :lol:
Postgame: Classical Red Explosion ending, with expanded text-based epilogue for civilization homeworlds and major characters.
Here's where it gets interesting. At minimally passable EMS, Shepard only has the option to fire the Crucible to end the Reaper threat. This necessarily disables all the mass relays in the galaxy as well because, hey- they're Reapertech as well. At higher levels of EMS, the Reapers finally manage to grasp the very real threat to their existence and Shepard gets some negotiating room.
BETTER ENDING- LEAVE US ALONE!
Conditions: Slightly higher EMS; Really difficult Persuasion check
Summary: After dealing with TIM, Shepard moves over to the control console for the powered-up Crucible. Words of encouragement from Adrmiral Hackett are suddenly cut as an all-too-familiar profile appears on the console- Harbinger. This time, he's singing a different tune. Uncharacteristically for the inhumanly-arrogant Reapers, they are forced to recognize that the Crucible was, in fact done right and is one button press from wiping them away. Harbinger asks Shepard to reconsider, and spins the Godchild's original line about the Reapers "saving organics from synthetics".
Persuasion attempt- Shepard points out that "yo dawg, we heard that synthetics will kill organics, so we're synthetics that kill organics..." doesn't actually make any goddamn sense, and somehow gets Harbinger to agree. Or not, in which case Shepard nukes the Reapers, and potentially Earth too (low EMS).
Forced to evaluate the Reapers' purpose, Harbinger remembers something long forgotten- the Reapers' original purpose! Harbinger, as the first Reaper, remembers that their purpose was indeed to save organic life.... from the threat of dark energy, which will eventually wipe out all stars and snuff ALL LIFE. Reapers periodically munched the smartest species to increase their number and computing power to try and find a solution. Unfortunately, at some point in the eons of slaughter, they forgot the REASON for the slaughter, and fixated only on the harvesting.
At an uncharacteristic loss for words, Harbinger (and by extension, the Reapers at large) decide they need to re-evaluate their strategy. Shepard can either tell the reapers to leave the galaxy in peace, or he can blow them all away for the lulz (goto Destroy).
Postgame: Assuming Shepard spares the Reapers, they immediately cease their assault on the galaxy, pack up shop, and leave for dark space. The Reapers are not gone forever, but they will take time to consider the knowledge of thousands of civilizations, and to let the current batch develop some more. The last communications are hopeful, looking forward to the day when all life can work together to counter the force of dark energy. Text-focused epilogue, talk about characters and homeworlds, blah blah.
GOOD ENDING- NO SHEPARD, YOU ARE THE REAPERS! (CONTROL REDUX)
Conditions: High EMS; Really difficult Persuasion check
Summary: Let's pick up from a successful Persuasion in the prior scenario. Harbinger and the Reapers need to re-evaluate their life choices, etc, etc. This time, they extend a unique offer to Shepard- the Commander can voluntarily become the "prime mind" in a new Reaper body.... created from those harvested in this cycle. This option is offered because the races of this cycle presented a very credible threat to the Reapers, and manged to truly impress them. Humbled against all odds, Harbinger is fully honest with Shepard about the potential gains (immortal kilometer space-robot body, massive influence with a fleet of thousands of similar space robots), and the costs (getting melted down and losing your human body). Understandably, Shepard still doesn't buy it, since Harbinger has no need to tell the truth- why not just trash the Crucible and subjugate the galaxy once Shepard's out of the picture? Harbinger has nothing to offer except a gesture of good faith- immediate cessation of hostilities against all races. At this point, the fate of the galaxy, the Reapers, and Shepard's future is up to the player. Obviously, it would require a leap of faith for both the player and Shep to accept Harbinger's offer, and it would still be made to look like a sketchy deal at best.
Join the Reapers: Shepard boards Harbinger and is taken to a specialized Reaper processing center. Shepard is ushered to a single, familiar pod and after taking a steadying breath, climbs in. The cover slides shut and some chemicals begin doing their brutal work; we watch from a first-person perspective as Shepard's body comes undone. A hand held up to the glass disintegrates to muscle, meat, and finally bone as everything gently fades to white.
Shepard awakens, apparently in the same pod, but in a white space devoid of all features, save for the pod and a very high-tech-looking throne of sorts. Shepard leaves the pod and goes over to the throne and takes a seat. Just at that moment a surge of power wracks the entire scene, cut to the "face" of a Capital Reaper- energy arcs across the machine's surface as its "eyes" suddenly light up. The Shepard-Reaper is in space with the remainder of the Reaper fleet; pan over to an overview of the Milky Way, similar to the final scene of ME2.
Postgame: All of the usual, of course colored by the fact that the galaxy's greatest hero is now the defacto leader of eons-old killbot spaceships. Reapershep then lives forever as a guardian of the galaxy, and as a leader in the effort to save the galaxy from dark energy.
Special Postgame: If certain esoteric conditions are met, the Reapers are able to reconstruct Shepard's human body using advanced Reaperbiotech and cloning.
BETTER ENDING- PREPARE THEM FOR ASCENSION (SYNTHESIS REDUX)
Conditions: Very high EMS; Really difficult Persuasion check x2
Summary: As an alternative to becoming a Reaper, Harbinger is sufficiently impressed by all advanced life (not just Shepard) that he extends the ultimate olive branch- the ascension of all organic and synthetic life to a unified whole. I'm still trying to work out some specifics here, the quickest contemporary I can offer is Bio-Metal from the 90's redux of Battlezone. Once again, Shepard would have to make a leap of fairth- since Destroy is the only ending that uses the Crucible, New Synthesis would be performed on willing individuals directly by the Reapers, adding biomachinery to synthetic life, and utterly sublime cybernetics to organic life. This option is incompatible with Reapershep since the Reapers would need a trustworthy spokesperson to get people to trust the Reapers. That spokesperson would be Shepard.
Persuasion Check: Shepard must convince the civilizations of the galaxy that a) he's not indoctrinated and b) this time, the Reapers are trying to help. (Please don't ask me exactly how that would work)
Failing this check still allows Leave Us Alone, Destroy, and Join. Succeeding in the check convinces most of each civilization to go along with the Synthesis, and the Reapers begin upgrading the civilizations of the galaxy. Obviously your squad gets to go first, since they were the vanguard of this impossibly awesome bunch of sentients. Once again, it's a bank of pods, and everybody steps into one as dozens of nimble robotic arms go to work. Cut- Shepard opens his eyes. The iris color is unchanged, but subtle circuitry can be seen glowing in the whites, and Shep's skin has a barely-noticeable metallic appearance to it, perhaps with an occasional circuit glow. After a brief acclimation to the new body, Shepard shares a tender moment with his love interest, and the camera pulls back to reveal long lines of people waiting for their turn to be Synthesized.
Postgame: Nothing really special here, epilogue text, as usual colored by which ending you achieved/chose.
ULTIMATE ENDING- YOU ARE BACTERIA, WE ARE... BEATEN!?
Conditions: Absurdly high EMS; 100% completion and Max Level in all prior Mass Effect titles; Absolute maximum Paragon/ Renegade score in both prior ME titles; Lost no squadmates, ever (except when dictated by plot); Stayed faithful to ME1 Love Interest (because why the hell not); +1 random pointless prereq, maybe something with Conrad Verner
Summary: Against all odds and reason, the fleet you assemble for the final space battle manages to somehow defeat the Reaper fleet in orbit around Earth (!?). The Reapers retreat to cries of "hax!" as the allied fleet liberates Earth and installs the Crucible. Before the Big Red Button on the Crucible can be pushed, Harbinger contacts Shepard and all involved parties to essentially beg for mercy. Harbinger and the Reapers were supposed to be perfect, if the organics could beat them then maybe their purpose was wrong, blah blah blah. Shepard is presented with all the high-level endings without any Persuade checks involved, and can freely choose from Destroy, Leave, Join, or New Synthesis, with none of the mindgames involved in the normal versions of these endings.
Postgame: Special epilogue texts, and unique cutscenes appropriate to such a perfect avatar of Paragonism or Renegade-ness. Shepard is essentially revered as a new Messiah, and lives for many decades as the single most respected sentient of recent times.
Jeezaloo that was a lot, but I had many and detailed ideas. Hopefully this can get the pudding stirred a bit, so to speak.
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The extended ending DLC is long past "rumours" and well into "confirmed fact" territory.
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I really like this thread. If you believe the ending is bad, I think it's healthy to put yourself in the author's position and see if you could improve on it. I haven't posted only because I haven't personally came up with an ending that I believe would satisfy a large number of individuals other than myself. Two big challenges of making such an ending include: considering the themes of mass effect, and the potential for multiple endings based on player choice.
I prettymuch agree with the general idea for the ending described here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUqAhKW7498&feature=plcp
I was almost certain there would be a real confrontation with harbinger, and that Sheppard would engage in some form of dialogue with harbinger before the greatest bossfight in game history. I hoped that the war assets meant more, more than just a way to get you talking to kid catalyst. So, in the ending I would like to see, your war assets are applied conventionally to effect the overall outcome of the reaper conflict. Perhaps too little means you lose and the reapers harvest earth.
One thing I would have liked to see, which is not mentioned in the video, is a super renegade option where you cut a deal with Cerberus and betray the Alliance. The Cerberus base is not destroyed because you fail to tell the Alliance where it is, but you retrieve the artifact found on thessia (given by Cerberus). You use Cerberus tech infused with the crucible to somehow control the reapers without the consent of kid catalyst (who would not exist in my ending), but the technology is primitive and goes horribly wrong, resulting in the will of the reapers being wiped out and replaced by a warped confused existence much like the Cerberus troopers experience. These new pawns of Cerberus will most likely be used the hired goons of the galaxy, a tool to oppress aliens and bring some kind of twisted totalitarian rule.
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I'm inclined to agree with a few reviewers and posters I've seen - I think ME3 should really only have one ending. The existing options are crap, mind you, but here's how I see it:
The plot of Mass Effect is (in my mind) best looked at shaped like an eye - starts at one fixed point where virtually everything is the same for every character, minus a few tiny character creation details, and should have ended at a point basically the same for everyone minus a few character decision details. At the end of the game, the plot should have been reduced to one of two options: The Reapers are unknowable, vast, and ultimately destroyed because Shepard effectively rallied the galaxy, then died in the process, OR the Reapers are unknowable, vast, and ultimately victorious because Shepard didn't rally the galaxy enough and the galaxy's forces were ripped apart because they didn't work together (reserved for if you didn't get the krogan onboard, quarians and geth to cooperate, etc). The variations on the two should be the number of other characters, squadmates, and ultimately races that survive the events of the final game. This would actually be a lot truer to the first two games as they each only have essentially one or two endings. In ME1, the Council lives or dies by Sovereign is destroyed regardless. In ME2, you save or destroy the Collector base but the Collectors are always defeated (unless Shepard dies, but that isn't really a third ending).
The existing endings are junk, but it seems to be that ME3 could have been much more neatly wrapped up by sticking with a no-reveal on the Reapers premise and simply having either a win ending, or a fail ending, based on what you did throughout the game (war assets). The epilogue could then have been devoted to what happened to everyone else as a result of your decisions in order to wrap things up after you're dead and buried. In fact, I don't really get WHY BioWare didn't go this route with ME3, since they've done it very successfully in several of their other games, DA:O among them. ME makes these aspirations toward player agency throughout the series, but if you actually look at the choices of the previous two games and the overall impact, Shepard actually follows a pretty linear path with some variations along the way. The meta-plot is always the same. It would have made way more sense to continue that trend into the third and final installation than the vague pseudo-art crap we ended up with.
My gripe is mainly with something raised on a bunch of the forums, BSN included: it is mathematically impossible to access all the existing ending content without Galaxy at War, despite BioWare's original claims to the contrary. While I have every expectation that I'll play through multiplayer [soon], it irks me greatly that I need to either own an iOS device (I don't) or play multiplayer in a franchise I bought for the singleplayer experience if I want to access all the content. I know it's not much missing content, but really, it's the principle of the thing,