People seem to forget about one very important thing:-the GTVA rebuilt they civilization from almost nothing. They had very little industry to help them, they had very few shiopyards, very few research instalations, very few resources to begin with. And yet they not only managed to get theyr acto toghether bu also modernise they fleets increase its size...colonize new planets hell they even had the money and the time to build the freaking Collie.
All this happened in just 35 years time. And you are gooing to tell me that they can not relocate several milion people and actualy start replenishing they fleets?? Hell no i dont buy that one bit.
If the GTVA did rebuild from scratch, then 250 million people either dead or needing relocated, including the infrastructure destroyed in Capella, would represent a massive amount of their population.
Every action, requires money and resources. Those resources need to be sourced interally - there's no exterior support - and that sourcing requires further infrastructure to be built before you can even begin to build for the refugees themselves. The GTVA does not have unlimited resources - if anything they're even more limited - and housing millions of people will represent an enormous drain on resources
and priority. Whilst the GTVA can rebuild, it will take time, and you can't just whip up a new fleet in a few years.
Oh and lets not forget that there was an acual evacuation of Vasuda if I do remember corectly and while most of the population could not be evacuated in time there were at least several hundreds of milions of vasudans that managed to escape the destruction of theyr homeworld. While the other bilions died.
Oh and dont go around telling me that the vasudans actualy could relocate several hundreds of milions of refugeez on other planets cuz well they had the housing and jobs and stuff.
I'm afraid you've lost me here.
The Vasudans have had 36 years to rebuild. That's a lot different from 3. Moreso, I would wager that the Vasudans were perhaps well prepared for this type of scenario, given the inhospitability of Vasuda Prime and the general value of colonisations to the Vasudans themselves.
Although it is stated that both 4 billion died in Vasuda and most of the escaping transports were shot down, which does raise questions as to how many escaped (V.Prime not seeming the sort of planet to support many, many billions ala Earth). There's an additional implication that the GTA was close to threatening Vasuda Prime during the TV war, too, which raises the question as to whether preparations for relocating key industries, etc, had already been made.
It's also unclear as to if or when the Vasudans evacuated Vasuda Prime. As no-one had seen the Shivans actually attack a planet at that point in time, it's quite possible there was at most a limited evacuation effort, with the bulk of the population bunkering down and preparing for ground fighting.
Also who said anything about conscripting the refugeez into the army??? Hell i'm willing to bet you will find several hundreds of thousand of volunteers right there simpli by placing a few recruiting offices aroun ther handing out flyers. Sure not all of them would be accepted but then agin they dont have to be all accepted.
Er, you suggested conscription by 'They dont have to go around looking for volunteers', I felt. I mean, you can't really think refugees are all 'craving for blood'?
Also, why would they join the army (etc) before they had their families, etc, safe? Why put themselves back into harms way? How could the decimated fleet afford to pay thousands (technically, you'd need millions for this to make a major impact) of new people, when there wasn't even a war? Where would they be housed?
Also Aldo you were saing something about the actual training of the crews...:
-while the ship is built could it be imaginable to think that you would actualy be training the crews?? oh my God what an absurd idea right??? Hell they dont even have to have a ship by the time they are finished training they can just keep on taining and stuff like that inceasing thery skills until the ship is actualy ready.
That is quite absurd, actually, even though you've sailed (*whoosh*) right past my point.
Training costs money, and it needs facilities for it. Even 250,000 people - 0.1% of the population of Capella, and probably a similarly small percentage of the refugees - requires a huge amount of pay, food, lodgings, etc. And even if you can do that, you can be sure the volunteers with families will want
their families housed and fed before doing anything.
Also since you asked me where do i get mi figures about actual contruction time and relocation and other stuff like that Aldo, can u tell me where you got the 3 yea build time period for the Orion?
I believe it is referenced in the FRED2 walkthrough. Which makes it the closest to official source we have on this, and I'd say consistent with the Colossus build time.
-I dont believe that someone handling the amunition would actualy be taking several years to train on how to loead and unload missiles/bombs etc. Crew training would ake time but not that long.
I would imagine you'd be very patient teaching someone how to load and handle a 50kt missile...... not to mention actual maintenance of the weapons, fixing them, preflight checking them, etc. And that'd be a single function - what about maintenance, engineering, pilots, gunners, tacticians, fighter/flight controllers, navigators..etc.
Although I addressed this before; facilities, money, etc.
Also i believe trained crews and trained pilots is something the GTVA will need and the capellans would be more then happy to volunteer. Also I dont believe that every single refugee is married or has a child or family even if 100.000 people are all single without any other obligation that is still enough to actualy replace some of the crews in time.
And 100,000 is a miniscule percentage of actual refugees by even the rather conservative estimates of 10% survival. And, again, you need facilities to handle that on top of the existing recruitment rates... although I have to wonder exactly how barely surviving a war with a near invincible enemy would encourage people to join up.
I believe that trained crews would acualy be a more serious problem then the lack of ships cuz well i dont believe that a crew actualy has a pemanent position on a ship with the ship docking while they have a 3 moth shoreleave form several years of patroling or something like that. I beleive crews are actualy rotated every 6 or 8 months.
Well, there is canon that Orion crews serve for 2 years, and that the cost of this in wages is an enormous expense.
Also this would be a great idea to actualy reactivate some of those retired Orions everyone has heard about. And no they wont actualy be stripped for parts. They will most liekli go into a state of preservation just in case. I know for sure that at least the navy does that at least with some of its ships and the airforce as well with some of its airplanes. You never know when you could use a few extra planes or ships.
what, the retired Orions with laser turrets and bugger all else?
There's scarcely likely to be a shadow fleet of mothballed destroyers, after all.
Oh, ok, but doesnt the fact that this is an internal matter and that it doesnt suffer any kind of outside interference (I highly that another shivan invasion would happen soon) actually makes it easier to handle all this?
Mmm.. think, say, the Kashmir earthquake. Now think of it without aid or government help. Not nice.
Yeah, it does, that's my thought. I don't think the GTVA crumbled, I just don't think they'll be starting any new projects any time soon.
That was my thought. They'll spend a good few years recoering, rehousing, and rebuilding relations following the NTF. Only after that would it be economically feasible to launch any sort of concerted rearming campaign, IMO. Certainly I find the concept of sending 20 odd destroyers crewed by Capellan refugees thirsty for Shivan blood, through a newly constructed Knossos that lead conviently to both Shivan space
and useful resources, and which promptly defeats the Shivans on their own ground......rather unlikely.
