[Mars]

No, their combined effect would probably only be like 500 Heliei, which still won't kill a Sathanas

[Sarafan]

But each of them carry helios warheads since they're able to resupply you with them.

[Mars]

Their explosions still aren't that damaging, look at the tables.

[aldo_14]

It wouldnt be wise to do that, you wouldnt assign a corvette to guard a depot or escort a convoy also a cruiser could take out a corvette (3 against 1, I mean), you could field more cruisers then corvettes (they cost less and are faster to be built) enabling you to cover a system far more effectively.

Except you're really better off using fighters to cover a system; a Myrmidon can take down a cruiser more or less by itself, after all.  Plus I'd wager a Deimos would make a superb escort, thanks to its AAAf and flak (one of my sole FRED attempts involved a Deimos escorting a convoy through a nebula, against a substantial amount of Shivan wings, and it fended them off with ease)... if we assume capital ships are to be used for convoy escort atall, which I doubt they would be because of the superior speed and mobility of fighters.

(Plus, the smaller (Poseidon / Elysium) transports (I've not bothered checking the Vasudan side, albeit) are in the 40-60ms speed range, and the fastest cruiser/corvette caps out at 30, so IMO it'd have to be fighters)

Plus, I suspect a cruiser is not as little as the third of the cost of a corvette.

[Kosh]

So if the GTVA has no cruisers (other than those kind of crappy Mentu's and those really crappy Fenris cruisers), doesn't that leave something of a hole in their fleet?

a Myrmidon can take down a cruiser more or less by itself, after all.

Assuming that it isn't armed with a Maxim (which I doubt is standard issue), an Aeolus can shred a wing of Myrmidons.

[Sarafan]

It wouldnt be wise to do that, you wouldnt assign a corvette to guard a depot or escort a convoy also a cruiser could take out a corvette (3 against 1, I mean), you could field more cruisers then corvettes (they cost less and are faster to be built) enabling you to cover a system far more effectively.

Except you're really better off using fighters to cover a system; a Myrmidon can take down a cruiser more or less by itself, after all.  Plus I'd wager a Deimos would make a superb escort, thanks to its AAAf and flak (one of my sole FRED attempts involved a Deimos escorting a convoy through a nebula, against a substantial amount of Shivan wings, and it fended them off with ease)... if we assume capital ships are to be used for convoy escort atall, which I doubt they would be because of the superior speed and mobility of fighters.

(Plus, the smaller (Poseidon / Elysium) transports (I've not bothered checking the Vasudan side, albeit) are in the 40-60ms speed range, and the fastest cruiser/corvette caps out at 30, so IMO it'd have to be fighters)

Plus, I suspect a cruiser is not as little as the third of the cost of a corvette.

There's no way a single fighter can take out a cruiser (except if its Alpha 1). About the cost, I think that a Aelous (being the most expensive cruiser) would cost half the price of a corvette. For a escort role, a cruiser with good speed like the Fenris would be perfect (taking in to account just its speed).

[Mars]

So if the GTVA has no cruisers (other than those kind of crappy Mentu's and those really crappy Fenris cruisers), doesn't that leave something of a hole in their fleet?

Aldo is saying that cruisers are being phased out in favor of the much more effective corvettes.

Assuming that it isn't armed with a Maxim (which I doubt is standard issue), an Aeolus can shred a wing of Myrmidons.

There's no way a single fighter can take out a cruiser (except if its Alpha 1).

A Myrmidon has a pretty good chance against a Fenris, Aten, or Mentu; although I agree, probably a Myrmidon won't cut it, but I don't think that was Aldo's point.

About the cost, I think that a Aelous (being the most expensive cruiser) would cost half the price of a corvette.

Maybe every cruiser is half the cost of a corvette, but you need more cruisers to do the same things as effectively.

For a escort role, a cruiser with good speed like the Fenris would be perfect (taking in to account just its speed).

The Fenris has a speed of 20ms, that's half the speed of an Elysium, if a warship were to escort a convoy, the Aeolus would be the best choice because of it's 30ms speed, but in the end, Aldo is right, you don't need warships to escort convoys when you have fighters and bombers.

[AlphaOne]

While I agree with the whole fighter protection/escort thing we cant ignore the fact that at some point you may need some aditional protection or firepower and the only cruiser that is eficient wnough would be the Aeoli...!

Oh and regarding the whole frigate thing Romania has 2 of them they just bought them from the UK..upgraded theyr sistems and put them into the fleet.

Oh and i dont really think that the GTVA will discard of its cruisers t least not for a while. Perhaps they could even design new classes of cruisers who knows. I'm just sayng that the cruisers have proved they value over and over agin across theyr long history and they are very usefull even now.

As for the corvettes I agree they must of increased the speed of thery construction like mad. They proved to be very versatile and very good warships as a whole.

Altough i do see them upgrading the armaments of the corvette with some better beamcannons.

[aldo_14]

So if the GTVA has no cruisers (other than those kind of crappy Mentu's and those really crappy Fenris cruisers), doesn't that leave something of a hole in their fleet?

That is the hole the corvette class is intended to fill.

a Myrmidon can take down a cruiser more or less by itself, after all.

Assuming that it isn't armed with a Maxim (which I doubt is standard issue), an Aeolus can shred a wing of Myrmidons.

Trebuchets.  It would seem common sense that, if you do drop capships for that type of engagement, you'd adopt that type of weapon as standard. 

Or, of course, Helios bombs.

(NB: worth probably noting, that it'd be quite difficult for a cruiser to defend any sort of large or stretched out convoy because it's a big, slow and unwieldy ship and can't really dart about and cover blind spots in the same way as a simple wing of fighters can.

While I agree with the whole fighter protection/escort thing we cant ignore the fact that at some point you may need some aditional protection or firepower and the only cruiser that is eficient wnough would be the Aeoli...!

At some point.  May.  Note those qualifiers.

I doubt, somehow, there are the same number of cruisers are convoys.  And if you're talking about a reserve capship ready to jump in....well, that applies to bomber wings or corvettes.

Oh and i dont really think that the GTVA will discard of its cruisers t least not for a while. Perhaps they could even design new classes of cruisers who knows. I'm just sayng that the cruisers have proved they value over and over agin across theyr long history and they are very usefull even now.

And corvettes are simply a better class and specification of ship.  We've seen the Fenris completely outclassed by fighters, and the Aeolus is canonically considered a failure, plus the Aten and Mentu are rubbish, so....well, you do the math.

[AlphaOne]

Well the Aeouli is considered rubbish only because it proved to be more expensive then they thought it would be. and the GTVA was unwilling at that time to invest in the Aeouli.

But the Aeouli is by far one of the best multipourpose ships in the game. It has good AAAF defences and 2 slashers to take on enemy warships. Couple an Aeouly with just 2 wings of Myrmadons and you have a corvette killer force on your hands.

[Black Wolf]

Perrys ain't of similar age (although armament-wise they pretty much are 1/4 of a Burke). And the Aussie frigates are Perrys too.

Um... some of them are, the old ones, but modified somewhat. The new ANZACs were German I think, but also pretty decently modified I think.

[Sarafan]

quote from myself:

I think that cruisers will still be around but more on a anti-fighter role but still with a good enough punch that cant be ignored by other ships, they would be more on a defensive role allowing the other ships to focus more on any offensive aspect.

end quote.

How many times on the game have we seen a Aeolus or Leviathan crush wing after wing of fighters and bombers attacking a convoy? Instead of getting a corvette to do this, a cruiser is more effective. Couple it with a wing of fighters and you got a massive wall, you're forgetting that on a convoy there are many different types of ships so they would need to maintain the same speed to concentrate their firepower and not spread out so the speed issue is not that much of a problem (using a Aelous as escort).

[aldo_14]

That wing of fighters is probably just as effective alone, though.  Especially as you can hang back assets in reserve, ready to jump in.

And, offhand, the Aeolus is the only cruiser able to keep up with the slowest members of a convoy (as a note, the Vasudan cargo ships & transports are all noticeably faster than the Terran ones); the Argo and Triton are the slowest at 30ms.  Moreso, the sole arguement for cruisers is price, and it's rather implied in the planned replacement of them that this is not a particular key concern (I would wager because of attrition rates; cruisers are mainly cannon fodder).

[Mars]

Well the Aeouli is considered rubbish only because it proved to be more expensive then they thought it would be. and the GTVA was unwilling at that time to invest in the Aeouli.

But the Aeouli is by far one of the best multipourpose ships in the game. It has good AAAF defences and 2 slashers to take on enemy warships. Couple an Aeouly with just 2 wings of Myrmadons and you have a corvette killer force on your hands.

No one knows for sure why the Aeolus is considered a failure but I have a pretty good guess, it was intended to fufil the role of the Deimos. The Sobek's tech description shows a corvettes job description pretty well, to support destroyers, and take on cruisers, that also happens to be the role of the Fenris during the great war: it was the main runner, "the mainstay" it did things like duke it out with Atens and help Orions fight Typhons, the Fenris got old, so command decided to replace it, but that was after the Sobek had already been deployed. Command looked at the Sobek and realised that the Aeolus, their new mainstay, was under equiped, under gunned, and undersized, so they canceled production and created the Deimos.

[AlphaOne]

That could be it. But i dont remember beeing mentioned anywhere that the Aeouli was a failure for a warships point of view. In fact the tech room describes it as a fighter pilots worst nightmare or something like that. but it also says that is very expensive. That may be from a cruisers point of view or something else. Regardless i can rmember how many times I used to draw fighters or bommbers into the Aeouli AAAf screan thus making short work of them. In fact at one point I was pissedoff because the aeouli was taking all the kils faster thn i could take them out.

[Mars]

I agree that the Aeolus has a good anti-fighter screen, and the demo tech description did praise it highly:

The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER. The Aeolus will smack you up.

However, the FS2 tech description clearly states that, although it has good anti-fighter armament, it just doesn't cut it:

The GTC Aeolus is the first cruiser class ever produced by the RNI shipyards orbiting Laramis II. Only two dozen of these cruisers were put into service in GTVA fleets, with production ending in 2365. Allied Command assigns Aeolus-class ships primarily to guard slow-moving convoys against fighter and bomber wings, as these cruisers are severely out-gunned by most capital ships in service today. Their flak and AAA turrets serve as marvelous deterrents to smaller craft, however.

There is some question whether this is accurate, because the Aeolus never actually turns up in the Tech room, so the only people who see it either know the CTRL-SHIFT-S  thing, or are in the tables. My guess why :Volition: had production end in the game in real life was to limit themselves, for the same reason the Hecate is only seen in the nebula, the original Aeolus model sucked, they didn't want the player to see to many of them when the comparitively pretty Fenris/Leviathan model was available.

[TrashMan]

Aeoluses rule.. I simply don't see cruisers as being dropped out...not any more than smaller vessels today are dropped out for bigger ones..and they are even mroe vulnerable than FS2 ones.

[AlphaOne]

To sum it up its pretty clear at least to me that cruisers will be available for quite some time. And since they have prooven temselfs some of them even agins larger warships, its pretty clear that theyr future si somewhat asured.

[aldo_14]

"As the Leviathan and Fenris cruisers of the Great War are gradually phased out, these corvettes will become the foundation of tomorrow's fleet."

Seems pretty definitive to me.......

[Mars]

Aeoluses rule.. I simply don't see cruisers as being dropped out...not any more than smaller vessels today are dropped out for bigger ones..and they are even mroe vulnerable than FS2 ones.

Except they have been. There were some small ship classes in WWII, we simpey don't have that size of vessel anymore, take the destroyer, the ones in WWII had displacements of ~200 tons, thats 1/42 the size of a modern destroyer.

The point is, they don't need cruisers anymore, cruisers were the old soliders, the ones that you send if fighters alone won't do and destroyers won't either, now there's a new solution, corvettes, that did everything that cruisers did, but better.