Author Topic: Fenris cruisers  (Read 83578 times)

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Offline Sarafan

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I played the original, wich port do you mean?

 

Offline Mars

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There was a capagin that let you play the demo in FSO. It's somwhere on the HLP forums still

Are you sure you didn't disable the beam cannons on the Moloch? Every time I played it the Aeolus was owned by the Moloch, it simpley doesn't have the armor or the firepower the Moloch does.

 

Offline Sarafan

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I've still have the original on a cd around here. A couple of times the Aelous did died but on most of them it killed the Moloch.

 

Offline Mars

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That never happened with me... somone else, did this happen to anyone else? The mission was made for the Aeolus to be destroyed so that the Psamtik could jump in and oblitherate the Moloch, and be very impressive doing it.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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So tell me why you think that, and while your at it tell me why it takes 10,000 people to operate a destroyer, or 30,000 to operate the Colossus. It is also canonical that t takes 6,000 to operate a corvette (from A Lion at the Door), I don't have a problem with it taking 3,000 people to operate a cruiser.

It takes 10,000 Terrans to operate a Terran Destroyer and 6,000 vasudans to operate a Vasudan corvette. You could well be comparing Apples with Oranges here and not know it. The only semi consistent estimate we have is a vague length:Crew size ratio (From the Collossus Crew/Length being 3x the Hecate Crew/length. From that ration, at a cruiser size of approx 1/8th Destroyer length, it should have 1250 crewers, and a Deimos should have in the region of 3500 or so, which seems about right to me, especially as neither of these ships need to support fighters.
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Offline aldo_14

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I bet if you did that using turret numbers or something it'd turn out totally different, though........

 

Offline Sarafan

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3.500 for a corvette seems an appropiate number for the crew but I still guess more then a 1.000 is still a bit too much for a cruiser.

 

Offline Mars

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Naw 1,000 is fine for a cruiser, if it makes you any happier the only canon number I've heard was from the FS1 demo, (I think) and said that several DOZEN crewmembers died when the Orff went up. I doubt that number very much.

Anyway, this was taken immediately before the Adament was destroyed:


It's just plain outgunned.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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well the numbers beeing vehiculated around here do look somewhat large. I mean i dont believe it takes 3000 crewmembers to operate a cruiser it seems rather much considering the level of advancement!

even of you have say 5 crewmen per turret which i dount to be the case since i dont really know what 5 cremen will be dooing there it still leaves a rather large amount of unacounted personell.

Lets asume 500 of them are maintenence personell while another 500 do whaever it is theyr dooing around a ship it still leaves a rather large amount of people just hanging around there for no good reason.
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Offline Ghostavo

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well the numbers beeing vehiculated around here do look somewhat large. I mean i dont believe it takes 3000 crewmembers to operate a cruiser it seems rather much considering the level of advancement!

even of you have say 5 crewmen per turret which i dount to be the case since i dont really know what 5 cremen will be dooing there it still leaves a rather large amount of unacounted personell.

Lets asume 500 of them are maintenence personell while another 500 do whaever it is theyr dooing around a ship it still leaves a rather large amount of people just hanging around there for no good reason.

Then explain what are 6000 vasudans doing in a corvette.

Black Wolf, regarding Terran and Vasudan diferences, they are likely to be small.
And after all you compared the GTVA Colossus with an Hecate, not a GTA Colossus. :p
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Offline AlphaOne

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Umm where is it stated that 6000 crewmen are based in a vasudan corvette?

and if that is the the case :wtf: hat are they dooing around there bringig they families for fishing contests..??? I guess they would have a rather latge tank full of fish which would be theyr favorite past time...fishing...
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Offline Ghostavo

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Umm where is it stated that 6000 crewmen are based in a vasudan corvette?

In the campaign, in "A Lion at the Door".
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Offline Mars

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I stated that back a while ago Alpha. If you lose the Dashor (I don't know how you could) then you get a debreifing talking about what a tradegy it is and how 6,000 people died.

 

Offline TrashMan

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I still think someone at [V]was drunk or made a typo writing that debrief....

What the hell can 600 people be doing on that ship? It has 28 turrets (assuming 10 people per turret) = 280 personell
4 shifts of 500 people each = 2000.

What the hell can they possibly be doing in there? The only reason for that many people I can think of is that hte Dashor was evacuating some personell or for some reason was full (scientists and technical staff that built the meson bomb wanted to look at hte live test?)
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Offline Mars

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However it is one of the ONLY canon numbers on ship crew size, and the only one on Vasudan crew size, therefore we must accept it.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Why do people always assume there will be loads of pirate fighters?  Where would they launch from?  How would they get military grade technology to threaten, say, a simple fighter escort wing?

And on other things, how do we know it's all that quicker to make a cruiser?  Are there still orbital shipyards, or will they not surely now all be setup for the supercedent Deimos (etc) class?   Also, to refer to an earlier comment, why are we comparing cruisers-to-corvette costs on a 1-to-1 basis?

I'm not. Dunno about everyone else. Basically, my answer invalidates the remainder of the questions. In the first paragraph. The GTVA's military, since its inception, has been designed for the purpose of combating the Shivans. There is no reason whatsoever to assume they're going to change that focus now.

Pure size dictates that it must be faster to build an Aeolus then a Deimos. An Aeolus consumes slightly less then half the space of a Demios. Less ship means less to assemble. Indeed, if you're trying to argue that the shipyards are all set up for the Deimos, well, that's actually a plus. You could fit a pair of Aeolus hulls into a slipway of Deimos dimensions. Shipyards aren't like assembly lines that need to be retooled. The basic limit on what a shipyard could build is the size of its slipways. Anything that can fit on the slipway can be built; you could build different ships back to back on the same slipway without a noticible loss of time.

The 1-to-1 cost comparison is perhaps silly, but the 1-to-1 time-to-service comparison I've made is not.
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Offline TrashMan

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However it is one of the ONLY canon numbers on ship crew size, and the only one on Vasudan crew size, therefore we must accept it.

No, I don't HAVE to accept anything mind you.... :D

There's canon and there's canon (questionable material). And while there's no denying that it was in the game I'm free to accept it with any degree of questionaing and reliability I want...especially this particular piece of data.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Figured as much. Nice to see someone agrees that you can build diferent tipes of ships in the same shypyard without undegooing any sort of retooling at least not any major ones. I would imagine ina shipyard you have something like a universal toolhead wich is custom fitted with diferent tipes of stuff depending on the ship requirements.

Also I'm under the same impression either it must of been a tipo mistake or someone at V was absoluteli drunkwhen it wrote that number but still since its the only canon number given we have to take it into acount.

And yet e might not have to. Let me explain why:

1-st of all that ship must of been full packed with all sorts of milatary personell
2-nd if the numbers of people preasent on a single corvette is that large then we have ships like the Aquitane who should have at least 30.000 people.
3-rd I believe we all learned by know that V didnt really pay much atention to these kind of details unless they had some good reason to do so.
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Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Mars

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No, the ship would not be packed, if you put 6,000 scale Vasudan models next to the Sobek, they would take up very little space.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Why would the Hecate have 30.000 people because a Corvette has 6000 people? By that logic, the Colossus "with enough space to house 12 lucifer class hulls" would need 120.000 (12*10.000) people because the Orion has 10.000.

Also if a Nimitz can house over 6000 people I'm pretty sure a vessel over double in length (not to mention width and height) could house 6000 people.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 07:38:11 pm by Ghostavo »
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