[AlphaOne]

Yes but we are talking about huge discrepanties in the number of people neded by each ship class.

I mean look at the Hecate several time larger wide taller etc. and it has a crew of just 10.000 ! I mean come on that thing has 150 spacecrafts those spacecrafts need engineers mechanics the works not to mention the rest of the personell. Also look at the sheer number of turrets that a destroyer has. I mean that thing would have to have something like at laest 5 times the numbers of a Sobek. something is of in these whole crew members numbers.

I mean even the colossus wich as you pointed out is huge compared to any oher GTVa vessel only uses what 3 times the number of crewmwmbers of a destroyer. And that thing is just packed full with turrets and fighters.

The number of crewmen on the Sobek is at lea in mi opinion way off. if it would of been something like 2000 or at a maximum of 3000 people then i would understand but this is just ridiculous.

Consider the level of sophistication on those things the automated sistems and stuff i do not blelieve they would just switch back to the old way like WW1 era warships where we have muh more crewmen on board the same classes of ships then we have during WW2 and afterwards.

[Ghostavo]

Yes but we are talking about huge discrepanties in the number of people neded by each ship class.

I mean look at the Hecate several time larger wide taller etc. and it has a crew of just 10.000 ! I mean come on that thing has 150 spacecrafts those spacecrafts need engineers mechanics the works not to mention the rest of the personell. Also look at the sheer number of turrets that a destroyer has. I mean that thing would have to have something like at laest 5 times the numbers of a Sobek. something is of in these whole crew members numbers.

I mean even the colossus wich as you pointed out is huge compared to any oher GTVa vessel only uses what 3 times the number of crewmwmbers of a destroyer. And that thing is just packed full with turrets and fighters.

The number of crewmen on the Sobek is at lea in mi opinion way off. if it would of been something like 2000 or at a maximum of 3000 people then i would understand but this is just ridiculous.

Consider the level of sophistication on those things the automated sistems and stuff i do not blelieve they would just switch back to the old way like WW1 era warships where we have muh more crewmen on board the same classes of ships then we have during WW2 and afterwards.

You miss the point. If the Colossus has 30.000 crew and the Orion 10.000 crew and nobody hardly disputes those facts, why should anyone dispute the Sobek of having 6000 crew (hell, its as canon as both of those previous numbers)? The crew numbers are not linear and seem to decrease in crew/volume as the size of the vessel increases.

[Mars]

Yeah, considering how empty the Orion is with 10,000, the Colossus must be really sparsely populated.

[Polpolion]

I'd say let's not get into the crew size debate again, but it looks like it's too late.

So I guess I'll join the fray too.


Keep in mind that we don't know how much people are required to man the power plant, all of the subsystems, cooks, and janitors. A ship is usually operating 24/7 for probably weeks at a time in between leaves, and assuming you only need 500 people for subsystems, 280 for turrets, say 10 for the bridge, 40 for cooks/ janitor type stuff. Three eight hour shifts a day, so, that is 2490 people. Crap. I pulled those numbers out of my butt too.

[Pnakotus]

While the Colossus is underpopulated, the habitable volume is significantly smaller than the full volume.  This is probably true of other ships too: there's no reason to think they're like Star Trek ships, where they've got windows in warp pylons and rooms inside fins.  This makes the low crew estimates a little easier to swallow, I think.

[Mars]

That's quite true, it hadn't even occured to me.

[Polpolion]

However it is one of the ONLY canon numbers on ship crew size, and the only one on Vasudan crew size, therefore we must accept it.

No, I don't HAVE to accept anything mind you....

There's canon and there's canon (questionable material). And while there's no denying that it was in the game I'm free to accept it with any degree of questionaing and reliability I want...especially this particular piece of data.

Like the Maxims?

If wrote it in and it got past all the testing and editing, then it is canon. No question about it. What you're doing is like saying Han Solo didn't get frozen in carbonite in The Empire Strikes Back

Everyone should just face the facts; there are approxamatly 6,000 Vasudans on a Sobek, 10,000 on an Orion, 30,000 on the Colossus, and so on. What does it matter that there are a few hundred/thousand less/more people on a ship than it seems?

Anyway, you all saw the collosuss cutscene, there was a scene with part of it was green. That was probably the fighter bay area and habitable crew area! those windows... are... umm...decorations

[Mars]

No there was a part where it showed the habitable area, it was aproximently 60% of the ship.

[Pnakotus]

Looking at the Colossus and it's habitable area, it suggests there is litte or no access to the rear third, with engines and powerplants.  The middle third is the 'flight deck', housing it's x fighter wings and ground crew etc.  The lower engine seems to be just that, and there's a sizable habitable area in the 'head'.  The bits with the textured on gantries/girders seem to be Event Horizon style passageways.  It looks like the Vasudans just built the biggest powerplant they could, attached a huge fighterbay and support systems, and slapped a bridge on. 

[AlphaOne]

Easiest way to build I iship if you ask me. No more designing and preasebly testing fesabilaty of this and that just slap on a powerplant add a fighterbay and hull then atack a couple of weapons.

[Ghostavo]

And then act surprised when the ship blows up when hit by a dead fly who happened to take the nearest airvent.

[AlphaOne]

Now that would be.....umm nevermind. So in the end what would be the result of the questions regarding cruisers and theyr use and future existence in FS universe.

[TrashMan]

You miss the point. If the Colossus has 30.000 crew and the Orion 10.000 crew and nobody hardly disputes those facts, why should anyone dispute the Sobek of having 6000 crew (hell, its as canon as both of those previous numbers)? The crew numbers are not linear and seem to decrease in crew/volume as the size of the vessel increases.

Becouse those numbers make more-or-less sense and have appeared SEVERAL times, thus meaning that the probability of mistake is nearly non-existant.

The sizzler
If [V] wrote it in and it got past all the testing and editing, then it is canon. No question about it. What you're doing is like saying Han Solo didn't get frozen in carbonite in The Empire Strikes Back

So if [V] wrote in one of the briefings that you have to rescue 4 transports, but only 3 appear in a mission that would not be a mistake but a cannon fact?

While the number 6000 has it's weight simply becouse it appears in a SINGLE debriefing (one that you're HIGHLY unlikely to see), you cannot deny that the number is strange to say the least. I have no proof that this is a mistake, but then again, to form a oppinion I don't need rock solid proof, just a strong indication of something.


Oh - people keep pulling out some carrier numbers. Here are a few exact one:
Carriers usualyl have 5000-6000 people on board and htey carry 80 fighters:

USS FORRESTAL  2900+2279 fligh crew
USS ENTERPRISE  3215+2480 flight crew
USS NIMITZ  3184+2800 flight crew

As you can see, the flight crew is pretty big. 10000 for a destroyer sounds acceptable - 150 craft compared to 80 of normal carrier would give you a number of 5000 fligh crew for a destroyer. The rest are tending the ship.*

So if a destroyer needs 5000 pople for the ship alone (not fighters) how the hell can a corvette require more?


*assumption made that the number of personell per craft remins the same, which highly likely.
 

[aldo_14]

The sizzler
If [V] wrote it in and it got past all the testing and editing, then it is canon. No question about it. What you're doing is like saying Han Solo didn't get frozen in carbonite in The Empire Strikes Back

So if [V] wrote in one of the briefings that you have to rescue 4 transports, but only 3 appear in a mission that would not be a mistake but a cannon fact?

No, but only because it is contradicted by explicit game events.

In the absence of a game event -such as a message (although even that is arguable) - contradicting the 6000 value, it remains firm canon.  You can't just chalk up everything you disagree with as non-canon by claiming 'oh, it could be a mistake'.

[Polpolion]

So if [V] wrote in one of the briefings that you have to rescue 4 transports, but only 3 appear in a mission that would not be a mistake but a cannon fact?

No, that would be a bug. And I don't think 6,000 Vasudens on a corvette is a bug.

EDIT: woop! Aldo_14 beat me. In fancier words, too!

[TrashMan]

In the absence of a game event -such as a message (although even that is arguable) - contradicting the 6000 value, it remains firm canon.  You can't just chalk up everything you disagree with as non-canon by claiming 'oh, it could be a mistake'.

It's the probability of a mistake that bothers me here......

[Pnakotus]

I think cruisers will continue to exist, because it'll always be cheaper and more efficient to built a warship without 120 fighters.  The corvettes are really just upsized cruisers, to fit a powerplant to run the beams they need to stay compeditive - if you wanted to make them carriers, you'd probably end up with something more destroyer size.  So there will always be ships that simply have big guns.  The Aeolus/Deimos example is informative, since they were built on similar tech bases.  The Aeolus isn't good enough and the Deimos is, so clearly fitting a cruiser with enough beams to be effective is beyond their powerplant tech.  I doubt they'll scrap the old cruisers, since they're pretty useful, and I think they'll have to design a Fenris-replacement (ie, 2-4AAA, 1 capbeam, a few guns) for picket work etc, but the Deimos is the standard 'warship' of the fleet.

[AlphaOne]

Well since we just get the 6000 figure only once and that only if you manage to somehow screw up the entire mission and fail it would be somewhat questionable. I can not say that it is a mistake but something seem off.

I mean come on a destroyer which is several times the volume of a corvette and has 150 spacecrafts in its hangars only needs a crew of 10.000 yet a corvette some 600 metteres long requires more then half that number. Come on. This is getting ridiculous. the numbers dont make any sence. Common logic ditates that something is not necesaryli right regarding that figure and to take it cannon simpli because its there is somewhat well.....idiotic from mi POW.

Sure people might say hey then lets start tearring FS apart because of all the things that dont make sence but i dont believe that is the case here.

[Mefustae]

It may not make sense, it may well be a mistake, it way may well be simply ludicrous to abide by that piece of information. But it's what we're given, so we've got to adhere to it. If we just assumed that bit was just a 'mistake', then maybe the Sathani jumping out after Capella goes supernova was a mistake too, just a little bit of coolness added by the animators that [V] didn't want in there. It's only seen once and never mentioned in gameplay, so what's the problem with admitting it's simply a drunken mistake? What? That makes just as much sense as what you're proposing...

Just live with it for chrissakes, it's not that big an issue!

[AlphaOne]

Actuali it is because were talking about man power here and the need or rather lack of it in a post Capella era. See where i'm tring to go with this. If that number is corect and the debriefing which sais that 3 years worth of salaries from the crew of an Orion would actualy buy you one of those things.(well basicly thats what it sais the debriefing is diferent) Then it would be much cheaper economicly to just build larger warships like the colossus cuz in the long run it will be more economicly fesable. At least from a salary expence point of view.