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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Mika on September 03, 2010, 01:44:48 pm

Title: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2010, 01:44:48 pm
It appears that the CEO of Gearbox, Randy Pitchford, has confirmed that the development of Duke Nukem Forever has been transferred to Gearbox. Release date: next year. The news came from PAX though there were rumors by Kotaku before the convention.

Linky (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/09/03/controversial-long-awaited-duke-nukem-forever-will-finally-be-released/)

After having played Painkiller and being pumped up for good old school FPS, I'm eagerly awaiting for this!
And Bulletstorm of course!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: achtung on September 03, 2010, 01:49:35 pm
Always bet on Duke.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2010, 01:56:25 pm
There's actually some in game footage at Kotaku!

Gotta love the plan for operation "Cockblock"
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2010, 02:24:52 pm
Live stream can be found here (http://www.ustream.tv/2kgameslive)

It's unfair they got to play the demo and the rest of us haven't!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mongoose on September 03, 2010, 02:38:30 pm
lolwut :lol:
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 03, 2010, 02:42:06 pm
I hear rumors that the Duke has no hit points. Instead, his health system is based on ego.

i am so pumped for this game
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: StarSlayer on September 03, 2010, 02:54:18 pm
I hear rumors that the Duke has no hit points. Instead, his health system is based on ego.

i am so pumped for this game

If its done by the same folks that did Painkiller I suppose "a gun that shoots dogs" isn't out of the question :P 

Lets see if they deliver on mixing in "Cooking Mama" into the multi genre masterpiece.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: The E on September 03, 2010, 02:58:31 pm
Oh, hey, look, another FPS with a hypermacho protagonist! What an unbelievably new concept! I am quite certain that this WILL be the most important game EVER MADE. Nothing will ever be able to come near it!

In other news, hell just froze over. Seriously, now we're supposed to celebrate the rebirth of an IP that over the past few years has lost any shred of uniqueness or appeal? Give me a new TimeSplitters instead.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 03, 2010, 02:59:22 pm
Oh, hey, look, another FPS with a hypermacho protagonist! What an unbelievably new concept! I am quite certain that this WILL be the most important game EVER MADE

Actually, these days we mostly get sort of quiet conflicted hurt protagonists. Duke is a relic from another era.

I was disappointed to see retinal jam regenerating health, though.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2010, 03:20:00 pm
Quote
If its done by the same folks that did Painkiller I suppose "a gun that shoots dogs" isn't out of the question 

Painkiller is developed by People Can Fly. Duke is done by Gearbox.

Quote
Oh, hey, look, another FPS with a hypermacho protagonist! What an unbelievably new concept! I am quite certain that this WILL be the most important game EVER MADE. Nothing will ever be able to come -near it!

In other news, hell just froze over. Seriously, now we're supposed to celebrate the rebirth of an IP that over the past few years has lost any shred of uniqueness or appeal? Give me a new TimeSplitters instead.

Duke is the first hypermacho first person shooter protagonist. And he is still rather unique - it is actually refreshing to see a protagonist that is so easily recognisable. And I didn't force you to read this thread.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: StarSlayer on September 03, 2010, 06:29:32 pm
Oh you mentioned Painkiller and Bulletstorm in the OP, my brain somehow leapt to that conclusion.  Well I guess the gun that shoots dogs is out but I'm still hopeful for the Cooking Mama sections though.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 03, 2010, 10:25:25 pm
Oh, hey, look, another FPS with a hypermacho protagonist! What an unbelievably new concept! I am quite certain that this WILL be the most important game EVER MADE. Nothing will ever be able to come near it!

In other news, hell just froze over. Seriously, now we're supposed to celebrate the rebirth of an IP that over the past few years has lost any shred of uniqueness or appeal? Give me a new TimeSplitters instead.


It's worth mentioning that the game has been in development since 1998. Some of us fondly remember the original Duke 3D, from 1996, and therefore look forward to a sequel that kicks as much ass as the original.


And yeah. While Doom pioneered 3D gaming and the FPS in general, Duke pioneered giving it attitude. That's something we'll always be thankful for. Afterall, who can forget the awesome DukeTalk feature?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 04, 2010, 04:40:54 am
Oh, hey, look, another FPS with a hypermacho protagonist! What an unbelievably new concept! I am quite certain that this WILL be the most important game EVER MADE. Nothing will ever be able to come near it!

In other news, hell just froze over. Seriously, now we're supposed to celebrate the rebirth of an IP that over the past few years has lost any shred of uniqueness or appeal? Give me a new TimeSplitters instead.

As a player of Duke Nukem 1, 2, 3D and Manhattan Project I would be happy to see the return of the franchise, though I will still only believe they have actually finished it when i can pick a copy from a game shop shelf and it has a disk inside with the game on.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 04, 2010, 11:35:53 am
Yeah, I've heard Duke was going to be released next year before. :P
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 04, 2010, 12:33:09 pm
Yep, DNF is just like the new Dark Eldar Codex for Wh40k: rumors of a next-year release for over a decade.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: achtung on September 04, 2010, 02:37:18 pm
(http://www.duke4.net/images/newspost_images/dukepax6.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: CP5670 on September 04, 2010, 03:38:34 pm
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: utops on September 04, 2010, 05:49:08 pm
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Me and every body who i know and was a PC gamer or Duke Nukem fan back in the ninetees buy this.
This game is a pure cult, this is Chuck Norris of the game industry and when i saw press confernce with Jon St. John voice actor of Duke, he confirms that DNF  is close to be realased and people go nuts. So i think that Duke sells quite well mr Prophet.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Nuclear1 on September 04, 2010, 06:13:45 pm
I'll believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mongoose on September 04, 2010, 06:18:04 pm
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 04, 2010, 06:26:02 pm
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

If it follows on from all other duke nukems then I have no doubt it will provide plenty of blow big **** up moments
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: StarSlayer on September 04, 2010, 06:46:37 pm
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

I tend to think its best bet is to forgo putting on airs and embrace the over the top 90s vibe and really ham it up.  If its going stand out from being another generic brown FPS I think it needs to go for the throwback "Expendables" kind of idea.

That or they could create the game from Yahtzee's review.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Scotty on September 04, 2010, 07:40:46 pm
It's The Expendables concept brought to video game consoles.  It's not original.  It's not especially intelligent, but it sure as hell will be satisfying. :P
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 04, 2010, 09:37:04 pm
Yep.  Strippers, pig cops, acceptable collateral damage being whatever you want, and of course, one-liners.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mongoose on September 04, 2010, 11:00:44 pm
Hell, I've been dying to play the original Duke 3D for a long time now.  I really need to buy that off GOG.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: achtung on September 05, 2010, 12:34:06 am
Hell, I've been dying to play the original Duke 3D for a long time now.  I really need to buy that off GOG.

Do that then pick up EDuke32 (http://www.eduke32.com/) and the hi-res pack (http://hrp.duke4.net/).
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Unknown Target on September 05, 2010, 03:13:27 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 05, 2010, 05:18:00 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.

:yes:
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 05, 2010, 10:03:39 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.


I think that some games should be works of art like FS1&2 while others should be just fun like duke 3d. This way there's a game for your every mood.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: CP5670 on September 05, 2010, 10:43:43 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.

You guys are missing the point. I'm not saying that a good game needs to have any deep story or gameplay (although in fact, these fast-paced, unrealistic FPSs usually have better gameplay and more varied weapons than the semi-realistic ones), but that there are plenty of other games that do this kind of gameplay very well. DNF certainly looks like it will be a fun game, but it's not going to be the revolutionary hit that DN3D was in 1996.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 05, 2010, 10:44:04 am
Can't you have fun works of art that aren't maudlin, e.g. FS1/2?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 05, 2010, 10:46:01 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.

You guys are missing the point. I'm not saying that a good game needs to have a story or deep gameplay (in fact, these fast-paced, unrealistic FPSs usually have better gameplay and more varied weapons than the semi-realistic ones), but that there are plenty of other games that do this kind of gameplay very well. DNF certainly looks like it will be a fun game, but it's not going to the revolutionary hit that DN3D was in 1996.


How was DN3d revolutionary? Most of the groundwork had already been done by Doom, some 3 years earlier.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 05, 2010, 11:08:51 am
Even if this actually comes out, I can't see how it would impress anyone today (aside from the fact that it was released). It seems like a fun game but will essentially be just another FPS. It had to have been released 10 years ago to stand out in any way. Duke himself won't be much of a selling point today, especially to all the console gamers. Many of them have only heard of Duke at all because of the delays on this game.
Why does every game have to "impress" people?  Sometimes you just want to relax and blow **** up, and I imagine this game will provide that in spades.

Seriously. I'm tired of this "games are art" bull**** that the industry these days keeps trying to push. Let us blow some **** up and laugh about it with friends - that's gaming. It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be while your protagonist is selflessly throwing himself in front of a cart of nuns and getting shots with bullets made of blood from his ex-wife that was brutally murdered in an in-game cutscene.

You guys are missing the point. I'm not saying that a good game needs to have a story or deep gameplay (in fact, these fast-paced, unrealistic FPSs usually have better gameplay and more varied weapons than the semi-realistic ones), but that there are plenty of other games that do this kind of gameplay very well. DNF certainly looks like it will be a fun game, but it's not going to the revolutionary hit that DN3D was in 1996.


How was DN3d revolutionary? Most of the groundwork had already been done by Doom, some 3 years earlier.

It wasn't though I would have said it was closer to quake in that it had jumping, crouching and maps with rooms above rooms.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 05, 2010, 01:46:29 pm
Quote
It's about being fun, not how brilliant your orchestral score full of weeping orphans can be

Now that you mentioned it, I do think that the audio side in terms of in game music is, well I can't even put words to it, but it isn't anymore what it used to be. Back then a lot of the action tracks were really catchy and you would find yourself whistling them time by time. Maybe it is not so anymore because games are not supposed to be arcadey or something. Yeah, title tracks when the main menu opens are usually good, but I'm talking about in-game music here.

What's wrong in doing in-game music like they did in Wing Commander II, Journey to Silius, Turrican and Great Giana Sisters? Come to think of it, what's the problem in doing games like those nowadays?

Back to topic, I don't mind automatic health regeneration that much (though I like the medkits more), but it's the two weapon limit in the trailer that boggles mind. 3D Realms says that they changed the interface because they couldn't find a nice way to switch weapons with a console controller.  :mad: George Broussard mentioned that they had compensated it in level design - I don't know how well this could keep up the immersion. I do hope that Gearbox switches it back to all guns available at least for PC. I understand that this is a good choice for multiplayer where consoles would otherwise be in disadvantage, but for single player campaign in PC, I'm most likely not going to like it unless they manage to do it tremendously well.

Perhaps it is about characterization and in game rules that should be clear from the beginning. Duke is supposed to be a massive one man army so all guns available at any given time sounds reasonable by the in-game logic. However, CoD4 and FarCry 2 are supposed to be more realistic with limited carry capacity, which kicks the player back in the nadgers when he realizes that in order to frag some one, three(!) sniper shots to head are required (yes in multi). I left the game after I had lined up a perfectly good shot right to the back of the head, stabilized for a couple of seconds, shot and hit the guy only to be killed a fraction of a second later by the exact same player emptying the clip at my present location. Well, it was highly unusual and I didn't even think the game could allow that. I haven't touched either of the games after that. So perhaps it's about consistency?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Scotty on September 05, 2010, 01:56:10 pm
Perhaps, because any sniper rifle in COD4 will kill someone with a head shot unless they're using Juggernaut.  And then, if you're using stopping power, it will anyway.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 05, 2010, 06:18:25 pm
Quote
Perhaps, because any sniper rifle in COD4 will kill someone with a head shot unless they're using Juggernaut.  And then, if you're using stopping power, it will anyway.

I think the example was from Far Cry 2 multi. There were other dumb things in COD4 multi. Note that I'm not saying they were bad games; they both had something that I liked, while they both also had some monumentally bad WTF moments. Far Cry 2 I liked graphically better, it felt more vivid (on those fields played), also I liked the rate of the game play, i.e. not too fast, not too slow. But with weapons mostly shooting peas, I really wanted to punch through that somebody else's new LCD display in LAN party after having been wasted by a guy I ambushed and shot through back of his head with a sniper rifle. From 50 meters away.

COD4 weapon effectiveness felt better, and the recoil seems a lot better. But it ends with guns and goes wrong with grenades. I don't know, after I shot a grenade in to a room that I knew had a couple of enemies inside and started to run to gun the survivors undoubtedly rolling on the floor in immense pain (if not shrapnel, then bursted ear drums), what did I get? For heavens sake, they were both on the ****ing same position and the grenade hadn't done anything! They weren't even thrown to floor! Result: immediate ownage (me) and almost a broken keyboard! Yeah, I also got pwned by a knife wielding bastard that managed to sneak next to me, but again, for a game with a such incredible sound effects, I suspected they had implemented footsteps. Experience said that if somebody is coming from the side over that wall there, he's bound to make noise that I will hear it. But no... And just what is the reason for putting tracers in those guns in daytime, to make spotting the shooter easier? And don't get me started on those air strikes.

Yes, I found CoD4 multi even more irritating than Far Cry 2's. I actually became so agitated I had to leave that LAN party. The problem was consistency. When a lot of things look realistic first, I expect it to apply elsewhere. And usually end up getting pwned for this reason and it really does become irritating after a while. The other downer was that the LAN party host couldn't find the respawn controls for CoD4 and the result was a hyperactive mess with dead people respawning in about two seconds very close to the place they died.

Luckily I don't own either of those games. Terrible gaming experience so to say. I hope that DNF will be a lot better in this respect. At least I hope they make it consistent so that it doesn't continuously let players down. If they throw realism out of window, then keep throwing it out.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Turambar on September 05, 2010, 07:08:35 pm
Pretty much everyone in this thread should go ahead and get Bulletstorm when that comes out.

I've put in an 88 hour week doing testing and i'm still not sick of it.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Unknown Target on September 05, 2010, 08:08:34 pm
Can't you have fun works of art that aren't maudlin, e.g. FS1/2?

*slap*

Freespace isn't art. It's a video game. You shoot aliens and make things go boom. Video games trying to be art is just gamer nerds trying to have something to be pretentious about. Why are suddenly *now* people discussing games being art? Because they've gotten popular enough so people might consider them that? Since when has art been (ostensibly) about a critical mass of people going "yup, that's art" (get out of here Impressionists/Modernists)? Back when Freespace was being made, there was no debate about whether or not it was "art" - Volition was making a video game for people to blow up aliens in, nothing more.

So tired of all this extra bull crap being attached to something that was never supposed to be that pretentious.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 05, 2010, 09:30:18 pm
Why is art pretentious? If a picture of colored soup cans is art, how is something like FreeSpace (or Dragon Age, or Shadow of the Colossus) not art?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: StarSlayer on September 05, 2010, 09:50:33 pm
Why is art pretentious? If a picture of colored soup cans is art, how is something like FreeSpace (or Dragon Age, or Shadow of the Colosssus) not art?

I don't think I'm pretentious...   :sigh:

Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mongoose on September 05, 2010, 11:05:35 pm
Why is art pretentious? If a picture of colored soup cans is art, how is something like FreeSpace (or Dragon Age, or Shadow of the Colossus) not art?
Some of us would argue that colored soup cans aren't art...and they're on the benign side of things.  I saw an "exhibition" in a museum I was in recently that consisted of twisted piles of shop lights and blinds. :p
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: redsniper on September 06, 2010, 12:28:01 am
Anyone who thinks games can't be art clearly hasn't played ICO. :p
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 06, 2010, 12:47:57 am
I think the point that UnknownTarget is trying to make is that games were never intended to be art. They were created for fun, for enjoyment, for blowing **** up. Not to be works of art. So that should be the core of the game, the ability to be fun, not to impress people with awesome graphics.

These days though, the devs place a lot of emphasis on pretty graphics that sometimes they lose track that games are just supposed to be fun. There's no point in having scenery porn if your gameplay feels as weak as a training laser.

Having a good story, excellent graphics and beautiful music is just the icing on the cake. So saying that you don't believe a game will be able to impress with graphics is like saying you think the Prometheus is useless cause it doesn't shoot cool looking bolts. It's important but you're focussing on the wrong thing. At the end of the day, gameplay should be what matters the most, though it does boil down to personal preference.

... Okay, that went into a slight rant.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 06, 2010, 01:23:10 am
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 06, 2010, 03:15:39 am
Movies were never intended to be works of art either, but some of them had just the amount of epicness to qualify for it.


Personally I think maybe we should consider a few mods art like Transcend and Blue Planet.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Unknown Target on September 06, 2010, 08:12:24 am
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.

I argued something like this before. Games aren't art because art is not supposed to have an express purpose. To be considered a game, an interactive thing must be fun. Otherwise it's not a game. If it's trying to be fun then it's a game, if it's simply existing to allow the user to interact with something so that they can assimilate some sort of point or lesson, then it could be considered art.


I would also like to know why no one argues for board games to be art.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 06, 2010, 08:18:33 am
Your argument is based around the mistaken belief that by art we mean visual art. Graphics are not what we are talking about when we say that games can be art.

A novel is art, a piece of music is art, Shadow of the Colossus is art, even something like Metroid Prime is arguably art while being fun and involving the explosive or ballistic death of aliens.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

On a broader level, intentionality is largely irrelevant.

I argued something like this before. Games aren't art because art is not supposed to have an express purpose. To be considered a game, an interactive thing must be fun. Otherwise it's not a game. If it's trying to be fun then it's a game, if it's simply existing to allow the user to interact with something so that they can assimilate some sort of point or lesson, then it could be considered art.


I would also like to know why no one argues for board games to be art.

Again, fallacy of the excluded middle. Pulp Fiction is clearly art, yet it is also fun. Calvin and Hobbes is trying to be funny yet it is definitely art.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Unknown Target on September 06, 2010, 09:21:33 am
You missed what I said though - it's not what it is, it's why it was created. Movies do not have to generate box office earnings or be entertaining to be considered "movies". A movie is just a sequence of pictures. A comic strip does not necessarily have to be funny to be considered a "comic" - it's just sequential images in in order that may or may not tell a story. To be a game, the definition is that;

"an amusement or pastime". That's what it is. It HAS to be amusing, fun, or trying to be either to be considered a "game". Otherwise, it's interactive media.

Also, on the bit about the excluded middle; what about my point about boardgames? If games are legitimately art (they're not), then what about board games? Is Snakes n' Ladders "art"?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: The E on September 06, 2010, 09:27:08 am
Now you're pulling a "no true scotsman". Games created for artistic value are not games, because a game is always created with the intent to entertain?

And for your boardgame argument, I would invite you to the many, many versions of the basic chess pieces around. Are you going to tell us that none of them are art?

To quote Penny Arcade, how can something that has been created by hundreds of artists working in concert not be art on some level?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 06, 2010, 09:28:44 am
Chess is arguably art. Go is very arguably art.

Shadow of the Colossus is art.

Intentionality is irrelevant. What matters is the effect on the viewer, reader, or player. I say fallacy of the excluded middle because it is fallacious to assume that intending something to be fun excludes any possibility of it being art. Pulp Fiction is intended to be fun, but it is also art - pop art, but definitely art.

Shadow of the Colossus is intended to be fun. It is fun. It is also art, and probably intended to be art. Same goes for Ico. Same goes for World of Goo. Same goes for FreeSpace 2 and some of its fan-made campaigns even more so.

I don't buy the Ebert argument that interactivity precludes artistry.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: TrashMan on September 07, 2010, 07:20:59 am
http://kotaku.com/5629782/duke-nukem-forever-impressions-two-girls-one-duke

Looks like this is our old Duke. the one we know and love...Love hte self-referencing humor.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 07, 2010, 08:42:47 am
Duke is back.  Hail to the King, baby!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 07, 2010, 09:52:54 am
I remember at the very end of Duke 3D atomic edition they said something about "look for a duke 3d sequel soon". That was 1997. :nervous: Better late then never?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Hades on September 07, 2010, 11:20:07 am
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 07, 2010, 11:54:49 am
I...have hope.

Wow.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 07, 2010, 12:17:29 pm
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
Seems more like the Blizzard time scale.

And for the gentlemen discussing about art, interactive media and its relevance to games, maybe this isn't the thread for it.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 07, 2010, 01:28:32 pm
I think they were using the Valve time scale.
Seems more like the Blizzard time scale.

And for the gentlemen discussing about art, interactive media and its relevance to games, maybe this isn't the thread for it.

Maybe this isn't the thread for YOU

gauntlet!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 07, 2010, 02:11:21 pm
Maybe this isn't the thread for YOU

gauntlet!

Very well.
/me slaps Battuta with the gauntlet.

Quote from: The Thread
Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox

Given the moderation has been incredibly twitchy about remaining on-topic in recent days and even showed a tendancy to split and lock things that are technically on topic but which some members of the thread insist aren't (like, say, the suspicious splitting and locking of all criticims in Inferno)...

...You're pissin' Duke off.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 07, 2010, 02:21:37 pm
I am the law.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Sushi on September 07, 2010, 03:51:08 pm

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: StarSlayer on September 07, 2010, 08:45:02 pm

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p


Nobody steals Duke's Thread... and lives.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: MR_T3D on September 07, 2010, 08:53:17 pm

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p

I'll give him a stick of my stride gum
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Nuclear1 on September 07, 2010, 09:33:06 pm

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p


Which is a line Duke stole :p
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 08, 2010, 03:06:32 am

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p


Which is a line Duke stole :p

"Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of gum"

The opening one liner to episode 3 and my favourite opening one liner of the game.  
Spoiler:
don't forget to pick up the Devastator hidden behind the panel opposite you
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 08, 2010, 01:10:21 pm
All your lines just made me wonder how do the 13 year old kids (=those who never played the 3D) see your quotations. And also that how would they see the one liner spewing overtly muscular macho protagonist straight from the 80's action movie. Well, it remains to be seen. Personally, I think it will still work.

Doesn't the Shrapnel City start with Duke saying something like "That's the second time those alien bastards shot down my ride"?

Besides I was halfway wishing for a DukeTalk match between forumites.

Bring it on and come get some
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: General Battuta on September 08, 2010, 01:11:51 pm
All your lines just made me wonder how do the 13 year old kids (=those who never played the 3D) see your quotations. And also that how would they see the one liner spewing overtly muscular macho protagonist straight from the 80's action movie. Well, it remains to be seen. Personally, I think it will still work.

Doesn't the Shrapnel City start with Duke saying something like "That's the second time those alien bastards shot down my ride"?

Besides I was halfway wishing for a DukeTalk match between forumites.

Bring it on and come get some

I'll rip off your head and **** down your neck.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 08, 2010, 01:16:02 pm
That's one doomed space marine.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 08, 2010, 01:29:56 pm
 :lol:

Ha, the captain's log! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjHz2gpEk-g)

Those who never heard it (are there any?) that was from a map which looked like Starship Enterprise when entering the *really* ready room.

We meet again, Doctor Jones!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Kosh on September 08, 2010, 08:36:33 pm
Terminated!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Unknown Target on September 08, 2010, 11:08:36 pm
:lol:

Ha, the captain's log! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjHz2gpEk-g)

Those who never heard it (are there any?) that was from a map which looked like Starship Enterprise when entering the *really* ready room.

We meet again, Doctor Jones!

Lmao, what the **** that's HILARIOUS :D
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 10, 2010, 03:43:08 pm
And it seems there is already a huge DNF demo request thread (http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=110493) going on in the old "We want Prey demo" -style. If you don't know what I mean, there's something that you are missing. The original We Want Prey Demo thread can be found from here (http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18454). There's even rescripted Commando scene on page 6!

Be warned, both threads are likely going to cause LOL moments if you are planning to read them at work!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 10, 2010, 04:11:54 pm
speaking of a demo, does anyone remember that cool trailer that was released a few years ago?
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Nuclear1 on September 12, 2010, 12:58:54 pm

...You're pissin' Duke off.

...and he's all outta gum.
:p


Which is a line Duke stole :p

"Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of gum"
...which is a line from They Live. :p

:lol:

Ha, the captain's log! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjHz2gpEk-g)
:lol:

D'oh d'oh d'oh d'oh!
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Mika on September 12, 2010, 01:30:16 pm
Quote
speaking of a demo, does anyone remember that cool trailer that was released a few years ago?

This one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM) EDIT: Which has a Terminator lookalike?

There is also a leaked gameplay video from April here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CwHzclyYnI&feature=related), that seems rather good to me. EDIT: not that the Duke talk voice would be genuine.
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: headdie on September 12, 2010, 01:51:54 pm

This one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM) EDIT: Which has a Terminator lookalike?


That's the one, I hadn't realised 9 years had passed since they released that one lol
Title: Re: Duke Nukem Forever to be released next year by Gearbox
Post by: Titan on September 13, 2010, 04:59:11 pm
Always count on Duke  :cool: