Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Fry_Day on October 23, 2002, 11:46:50 am
-
Which one is better, The Great War, or FS2?
My original opinion
what's this nonsense I'm hearing about FS1 being better than FS2? FS2 had better sound, music and graphics, the missions were better and much more immersive, and the FS1 plot was thin enough to get a paper cut from. It was still a great game, but FS2 was just plain better.
-
Havent we had this before?
Overall FS2 is better cos it has all the good stuff of FS1 but better graphics etc
But FS1 I think had some great missions where you had to knock out big ship comm systems to stop them calling in backup and really good stuff like that.
-
In my opinion both are good. But FS1 does have better missions/campaign. FS2 is better in everything else.
-
DEAR GOD!! RUN!! IT'S THE FREESPACE VS. FREESPACE 2 THREAD AGAIN. QUICKLY, HIDE THE FLAMETHROWERS!!!!
freespace - big evil ship that has a design flaw that is used in the final mission of campaign
freespace 2 - a lot of big evil ships, who just overwhelm us, a story that compelles us from start to end and leaves open ends, and even more big-ass ships.
Freespace 2.
-
I posted this not to long ago. And I must have been the fifteen millionth. I'm not replying to any more of these threads:)
-
Too late! :D
Hasn't this debate been going on ever since 1999?
-
I meant by replying that I wasn't going to post my favorite, or vote in the poll.
-
FS1 > FS2
-
FS1 > FS2 - story, mood, cutscenes
FS2 > FS1 - technically, gameplay, blah blah blah
-
FS2 > FS1 - everything :D (except maybe the default multiplayer missions)
-
shut up all of you... FS1 0wned FS2...
perhaps the graphics weren't quite as good, but everything else (including cutscenes) were better
-
I don't know, I have only played FS2. :doubt:
Originally posted by Stealth
shut up all of you... FS1 0wned FS2...
perhaps the graphics weren't quite as good, but everything else (including cutscenes) were better
It's an opinion... :rolleyes:
-
Whilst the FS2 Bosch cutscenes were BORING and the Ancients ones were cool, FS1's ending was pathetic compared to FS2's.
-
Bah, I missed the discussions in the VBB, so I'm asking right now.
For anyone saying that the FS1 story is better, the original FS1 (Not incl. Silent Threat, which I have yet to play) had a pretty thin plot, compared to the twists and turns of the FS2 plot.
I also think that the FS1 cinematics were a whole lot worse than FS2's. The Bosch monologues were a lot deeper and moodier than the Ancients' ones, and while I thought both intros were awsome, after two years without playing FS1, I watched the intro, and it seemed not that good at all compared to the FS2 one.
Hallfight is awsome, but Supernova is as good, IMO, and Bastion also rocks.
I admit FS1 set the mood better in some ways - The feeling of hopelessness in some of the breifings was well done, but FS2 had it's fair share of mood too, and while the FS1 breifing music is great, it's one tune, which makes it a bit difficult to set the mission's mood, compared to FS2's 5 different ones.
-
Brief 05 was the best FS2 briefing music! :D
I like to use it for 'we hold them here or die trying' missions! :D
-
For anyone saying that the FS1 story is better, the original FS1 (Not incl. Silent Threat, which I have yet to play) had a pretty thin plot, compared to the twists and turns of the FS2 plot.
I also think that the FS1 cinematics were a whole lot worse than FS2's. The Bosch monologues were a lot deeper and moodier than the Ancients' ones, and while I thought both intros were awsome, after two years without playing FS1, I watched the intro, and it seemed not that good at all compared to the FS2 one.
Hallfight is awsome, but Supernova is as good, IMO, and Bastion also rocks.
I admit FS1 set the mood better in some ways - The feeling of hopelessness in some of the breifings was well done, but FS2 had it's fair share of mood too, and while the FS1 breifing music is great, it's one tune, which makes it a bit difficult to set the mission's mood, compared to FS2's 5 different ones.
You pretty much summed up my thoughts there on story-related stuff. ;) Silent Threat had the potential for a really good story actually, since the same "twists and turns" that are in FS2 were also present there, but the ending was a major disappointment (both story and gameplay wise) and there were some poorly designed missions in there too.
I also found the Bosch monologues much better than the Ancient ones, mainly because most of the Ancient ones came up before the player had ever heard anything about the Ancients and were thus very confusing. The scripts used in the Bosch movies were also much better.
Although FS1 actually used several of the "nrml" soundtracks for briefings. (m2_nrml3, m4_nrml3, m5_nrml3 and m8_nrml3) I think with the music alone, I like the two games about equally.
-
Originally posted by Fry_Day
I admit FS1 set the mood better in some ways - The feeling of hopelessness in some of the breifings was well done, but FS2 had it's fair share of mood too, and while the FS1 breifing music is great, it's one tune, which makes it a bit difficult to set the mission's mood, compared to FS2's 5 different ones.
1. Freespace 1 did not have Robert Loggia. End of story.
2. Freespace 2 progressed the story in missions, not only with cutscenes and briefings. When something historical happened, YOU were there.
3. Three words: Into the Lions den.
oh, and 2000 post milestone
-
Gotta say that FS2 owned FS1, but FS1 owned any other space combat sim I've ever played. Both are incredible games.
Bosch's monologues were definitely deeper and more meaningful than the Ancients, especially since all the Ancients cutscenes did was to tell the story of their demise. Bosch's monologues gave you an insight into the mind of a madman, and moved the plot along much better than the Ancients "background information" scenes. Hallfight and FS1 intro rocked, but so did FS2 Intro, Colossus, Bastion, and Supernova (plus the Bosch monologues of course).
I agree that FS1's plot was thin compared to FS2's twists and turns. Nothing immersed me more in any game than while flying the TAG missile test, Kappa 3 comes out of nowhere and starts screaming his head off about some big ship. Up until we actually find the Sathanas, every mission after that was just creepy....what really IS out there? FS2 did that "question answering" a lot, which was awesome. Where'd Kappa wing go? Kappy 3 comes out of nowhere. What's ETAK? Bosch communicates with the Shivans (and the whole time they had us believing it was some super weapon, hell of a trick there!). What the hell is the Sathanas fleet doing around Capella? Supernova.
I just can't remember anything that special from FS1. Except "Oh my God, it's the Lucifer!!", that mission was harsh.
Too bad they never told us where Bosch went.
-
FS1 overall is better. FS1 gave a sense of urgency while FS2 was like "Ohh, we're better than you damn shivans so sod off eh!"
-
Originally posted by MD-2389
FS1 overall is better. FS1 gave a sense of urgency while FS2 was like "Ohh, we're better than you damn shivans so sod off eh!"
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! :D :D
-
meh, i think i speak for everyone when i say SILENT THREAT OWNED!!
*hastly takes off fur coat and Target-Brand shirt and runs*
;)
Seriously though, FS1 owned everything around at the time (only thing i had that was close was XWA) but it was only "good" next to FS2.
FS1 (off the top of my head) = Lucifer ("invincible" juggernaught)
Hammer of Light
Athena
Cutscenes
Missions where the shivans were unknown
FS2 (off the top of my head) = Robert Luggia
Beams
Better Fighters
Nebulas
Shivan Beams
Flak
Snipes
Bosch + Neo Terra
Colosuss (:doubt: )
Maxim
Into the Lions Den
Excellent Story, not as predictable until last 2 missions
No stupid Map Errors
FRED2
I think i like FS2 better overall, but its a hard choice. Its like picking between children. Sure your first born is an ugly lil f**k, but he had his charms that were original at the time.
-
Originally posted by MD-2389
FS1 overall is better. FS1 gave a sense of urgency while FS2 was like "Ohh, we're better than you damn shivans so sod off eh!"
yes, and when the Sathanas fleet comes around, it all takes a much more interesting turn. Shows how arrogant humans are.
-
FS2 :nod:
-
Graphics issues and the like aside, I tend to look upon them both as the same game. :nervous: The same story. Just at a different stage of the story.
Well, that's what I think. :shaking: I'll see myself out.
-
FS2. Period. Sucka.
-
yes, and when the Sathanas fleet comes around, it all takes a much more interesting turn. Shows how arrogant humans are.
"Now with the Colosuss on our side, humanity will have nothing to fear."
next breifing
"Despite the victory, the Colossus has sustained moderate damage to her hull, which remains at 80%. Alliance Technicians suspect it will take several months for the repairs to be completed."
:rolleyes: stupid humans...
-
Yeah, that was a bit odd. Especially since I made sure it didn't take ANY damage at all.
-
And I made sure for it's hull to drop to 40% :)
-
FS2 had the great american 'bigger is better' syndrome, which was....fulla crap...
Graphics were better yes, music was not...
Voice actor?
They had two people worth it, snipes and Our admiral...woo...
FS, Whilst most people weren't held as really that important, /ALL/ the voice actors did a good job in carrying the storyline, and someone was saying about you never being there for important moments in FS1....
err........
errrr............
ERRRRRRRRRRRR........ did you ever even play it?
Last mission.
Failure to communicate.
Reaching the Zenith.
Black Omega.
Galatea's Death.
Killin the Eva.
Fool...
Also, whilst FS2 had so many twists by the end of the plot you were bored because it was so anticlimatic it was like a bad american thriller, FS1 was all about survival, you had an urge to win or die, FS2? "Oh it's a big ship ahh we're the GTVA, we'll just chuck our own big ships out there!!yeah!! go team!!" uhuh...
FS2 was so full of plot holes and glitches I can't even begin to cover them all, so blah.....
FS1's playability is superior IMHO apart from a good TvT Multi FS2.
Beams?
...Homo.
Flak?
Worse...
FS1 actually hit you with a sense of loss, FS2 left you with sheet, 'oh man, we lost cappella...aww... bearing in mind we've done almost nothing in the storyline to connect you to cappella so why should you really care that you lost the system? oh well we stopped the shivans :lol:' weak.
I could really go on for hours...
FS1 > FS2.
FS2 < Graphically and Multi FS1.
FS2's playability was worth a kipper, that's about it.
meh. Baka..-_-
-
Easy there Sparky, in that last thread I discovered most people can't appreciate some of those things cuz they just can't fly like us ;)
Tastes differ and most people settled with the platonic, which isn't really a surprise ;)
-
mental note....people like being lazy...
-
bah, having a "desperate" feeling just for its own sake makes no sense; the story needs to be realistic... :p (I suppose the best campaign story then would be one where every terran and vasudan in the galaxy is dead except for you :D)
-
It was realistic, we got our butts kicked, and Command didn't try to delude itself that it could win with big ships O.o
.....And uhh, that's another thing that annoyed me....GTVA Command...I almost let 3rd fleet HQ die just because the guy pished meh orf O.o
-
It was basically just "save the earth from the big bad aliens;" granted, it was certainly as polished as it could possibly become from that basic premise, but this core plot is unrealistic and overused; FS2 had a better core plot to start with and more polish as well.
Actually, I think an even better story then would be when everyone and everything is dead including you! :D :D
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
It was realistic, we got our butts kicked, and Command didn't try to delude itself that it could win with big ships O.o
.....And uhh, that's another thing that annoyed me....GTVA Command...I almost let 3rd fleet HQ die just because the guy pished meh orf O.o
I actually.....let it die
Originally posted by CP5670
It was basically just "save the earth from the aliens;" granted, it was certainly as polished as it could get from that basic premise and the best one of that type out there, but it was no FS2.
Thank god, I figure at least we knew where we were at and what we had to do. In fs2 there was so much BORING stuff...
-
it is remote-desructed anyway at the end of that mission, so it doesn't really matter... :D
-
yes it did for me
and....
"THIS IS THE MESSANA, NOW BLAH BLAH BLAH"
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!
-
i haven't read a post this funny in five minutes.
you guys sound like babeling idiots. We all have our Opionions, yes. But i didn't even know where i was or why it was so important to protect Delta Serpintis in FS1, because all my maps were telling me you could get to Earth from Alpha Centauri. :rolleyes:
I only remember a little of the voice acting. It was ok, but it felt "old" or kinda 80's or something. Sounded like too much fake drama (i.e. Colossus) FS2 (bar colossus) voice acting was good i think.
I don't quite remember, but i think the wingmates may have been more interactive in FS1, or at least you got to know them more. That or it was completely oposite :D
the FS1 "Covert Operation" (with the dragon) sucked arse. "My God, its the Lucifer!" well no sh1t sherlock, all those ships were in the lucifer battle group...:rolleyes:
Snipes 0wns. i'm sittin' there, havin' a jolly good time with my speakers up and waiting for it to load, drinking some soda and all the sudden " DIVE DIVE DIVE !! HITCHURE BURNERS PILOT!!" i'm thinkin "AW SH1T!!" and of course i am 2 seconds late for what he said, i pull up instead and just barely (BARELY = 10 meters) make it over the bad boy. :yes: :yes:
Oh yeah, FS2 has beams, those were pretty cool, and came out of nowwhere for me in the 1st mission. "woa... that was cool"
Only thing i miss is HoL. they were cool. Also, wouldn't it make sense if they had FLak in FS1? It's kinda low tech seeing as how they have it today and have had it for a long time.
-
I prefered FS2, mostly becuase there was a bit more action involved in the battles. FS1 battles were too slow, but with beams the scale and pace of intership battles was just more inpressive.
...i played FS2 before i playyed the first, so my preception of it is a bit odd, i knew most of what happened in FS1 before i played it, so the storyline didn't have much interest for me :blah:
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
FS2 had the great american 'bigger is better' syndrome, which was....fulla crap...
So now its a nationality problem? Right...your argument doesn't start off very strong.
Graphics were better yes, music was not...
Voice actor?
They had two people worth it, snipes and Our admiral...woo...
Graphics were MUCH improved, no more blurry textures. How was the music different? Seemed pretty similar to me.
As for voice acting, Petrarch and Snipes were fantastic voice actors. That kind of talent is found nowhere in FS1. And the squadron commanders played their parts well without sucking. Listen to some of the loss debriefings and see how pissed off they can get.
FS, Whilst most people weren't held as really that important, /ALL/ the voice actors did a good job in carrying the storyline
And they didn't in FS2? Explain yourself. What about the first nebula mission? Or the third mission where Bosch escapes Deneb? Or Kappa 3? They didn't advance the storyline?
Also, whilst FS2 had so many twists by the end of the plot you were bored because it was so anticlimatic it was like a bad american thriller
Once again the nationality card. Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
And you're still not explaining yourself. A huge supernova isn't climatic? And twists and turns are meant to make a story interesting, not monotonous (aka FS1), and the only reason they could bore someone is if they don't have the capacity to follow what's going on. Try playing FS2 through again, maybe you'll pick it up this time.
FS1 was all about survival, you had an urge to win or die, FS2? "Oh it's a big ship ahh we're the GTVA, we'll just chuck our own big ships out there!!yeah!! go team!!" uhuh...
Straw man. You're being blinded by the Colossus. How many times did you use the Colossus against the Shivans again? Oh, twice. And it got wasted the second time. If you want a real argument, try attacking the actual game and not some skewed perception of it, because FS2 was not centered around the Colossus.
And once again you fail to explain yourself. How was FS2 NOT about survival? If the Shivans win, they swarm into Gamma Draconis and invade the GTVA. You didn't sense any urgency during Clash of the Titans II? Because if the Bastion doesn't make it to that node, Terrans and Vasudans are finished, done for, extinct. "This is our Alamo, pilots. We hold them here...or we die trying."
FS2 was so full of plot holes and glitches I can't even begin to cover them all, so blah.....
Don't even talk about plot holes in FS2 if you're comparing it to FS1. As KT said so well about FS1: "But i didn't even know where i was or why it was so important to protect Delta Serpintis in FS1, because all my maps were telling me you could get to Earth from Alpha Centauri."
I had no idea where the Galatea was in FS1, because the briefings were never consistent with what system we were in. I remember looking at a node map and being extremely confused...that didn't really help the story either.
Beams?
...Homo.
Flak?
Worse...
This is just laughable. Beams were not only visually and audibly stunning, they provided a ton of extra depth to FS2 by introducing capship combat. Would you rather sit there for hours and hours waiting for the Colossus to destroy the Sathanas with laser turrets?? Not to mention, they also gave capships some fighter defense, so it was actually a (oh my god) challenge to attack capships! Flak accomplished the same thing, it was visually impressive, sounded awesome, and gave it some effective anti-fighter/anti-bomber cover (at least, more effective than turrets).
Try explaining yourself, you know, back up your babbling rant with some reasons instead of "homo" and "worse."
FS1 actually hit you with a sense of loss, FS2 left you with sheet, 'oh man, we lost cappella...aww... bearing in mind we've done almost nothing in the storyline to connect you to cappella so why should you really care that you lost the system? oh well we stopped the shivans :lol:' weak.
Yes, FS1 had the Galatea, and Vasuda, and the node to Sol. You felt loss for those, but you didn't feel loss when the Psamtik got wasted? What about when the Colossus went down with 30,000 crew aboard? Maybe when you abandoned 3rd fleet HQ to to make a final retreat? Surely when the Bastion detonated inside the node? Perhaps when the supernova vaporized the trailing elements of the final convoy to Vega?
Sounds like you have selective-loss feeling. You only feel loss because its FS1, and you're so prejudiced against FS2, that you don't feel a thing.
It was realistic, we got our butts kicked, and Command didn't try to delude itself that it could win with big ships
You think if the GTA had the Colossus in FS1, they wouldn't have used it? Ridiculous, the GTA plain didn't have big ships or the capacity to build them. It has nothing to do with deluding themselves of anything.
And in case you didn't make it to the end of FS2, we got our butts kicked again.
And uhh, that's another thing that annoyed me....GTVA Command...I almost let 3rd fleet HQ die just because the guy pished meh orf
I suppose if you took him out, we would have had no idea what the hell was going on. He was integral to every mission.
Maybe you just didn't like him because he was black. (Just kidding!!)[/u]
In any event, next time, try to make some coherent arguments instead of groundless statements and strawman attacks. FS1 is a great game, but FS2 owns it by far. In response to you:
FS2 > FS1
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
Maybe you just didn't like him because he was black. (J/K!!) [/B]
Aww... and you were doing so well up to this point. Never mind, you got the rest of it dead straight :nod:
-
Beams and flak were awesome, but one thing fs1 did that fs2 could never do. When you lost the Galatea, she died fighting, and it took a little while for it to die, well, until the Lucifer jumped in. You felt a deep loss because you had been fighting for her, and just when you thought you might have a chance, Lucifer jumps in. As I recall, the Psamtik was destroyed extremely quickly. I felt like, oh well, we couldn't do anything, why care?
I was always partial to laser turrets, but thought they should be better. That's something I fixed when I started the TVWP. Laser turrets are faster, and more deadly. Going up against a Faustus class cruiser is suicide. One enemy fighter will take you down in a few seconds. If you get behind somebody, and start firing, their buddy will sneak up and blow your brains out in two seconds.
Altogether, my point in the last paragraph was: In Freespace1, if you got behind somebody, they were gone. In freespace2, all they had to do was fly near a friendly cruiser, and their pursuer was history. I like the idea that evasion is possible.
I don't completely like beams. They should be weaker. They'll take down a capital ship in thirty seconds. When you're escorting a convoy, and a cruiser warps in, you're usually doomed. Unless something jumps in and saves you. In fs1, you can fend for yourself. In fs2, if a cruiser jumps in, and you're in a fighter. Unless it is a Fenris, you're screwed.
Altogether, I like both of them equally.
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Aww... and you were doing so well up to this point. Never mind, you got the rest of it dead straight :nod:
Hence the J/K :)
Sorry, I just had to throw it in :D
-
[GLOW=CRIMSON]KILL THIS THREAD.[/GLOW][/FONT]
-
Originally posted by Hades
I don't completely like beams. They should be weaker. They'll take down a capital ship in thirty seconds. When you're escorting a convoy, and a cruiser warps in, you're usually doomed. Unless something jumps in and saves you. In fs1, you can fend for yourself. In fs2, if a cruiser jumps in, and you're in a fighter. Unless it is a Fenris, you're screwed.
As it should be. A convoy of civilian vessels should never be able to stand the pounding of even the smallest capital ships for long.
Think in terms of naval warfare. If a WWII corvette or destroyer decided to open up on a civilian convoy it wouldn`t last long at all.
If a cruiser jumps in it's your job to pull its teeth before it can start chewing on the convoy.
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
Yes, FS1 had the Galatea, and Vasuda, and the node to Sol. You felt loss for those, but you didn't feel loss when the Psamtik got wasted? What about when the Colossus went down with 30,000 crew aboard? Maybe when you abandoned 3rd fleet HQ to to make a final retreat? Surely when the Bastion detonated inside the node? Perhaps when the supernova vaporized the trailing elements of the final convoy to Vega?
a) never noticed until I played the thing a second time, it went: "Psamtik you emerged far from the knossos, WTF!!!!! NOO!!!!!!!!!!!!, Psamtiks loss was a great one, OK NEXT MISSION!
b) the thing with the colossus was expected, if you couldn't see it happen I suggest you go read some stories, the thing follows a pattern
c) couldnt care less about the 3rd fleet, read above, I WANTED IT TO DIE, it was ANNOYING
d) bastion carried a skeleton crew and the mesons, I couldn't give less of a **** that it was gonna go to pieces
e) I got each and every one to the node, try go and learn how to play
-
d) I played FS2 first, but even so I had respect for the Bastion's history, and shed a small tear when it had to be sacrificed...
e) What difficulty? Any hacks?
Things is, if you're not going to get in to the spirit of a game like this, why are you even playing it? It's like playing Resident Evil or Eternal Darkness and not allowing yourself to be scared silly - if you don't let the story and atmosphere sweep you up, you lose a massive chunk of the game. You never feel part of the proceedings, and ultimately you just lose out. I feel quite sorry that this has been your eperience of FS2, BD :(
-
FS2 has better dogfights and ships and stuff, but FS1 has better storyline... Is it really possible that a Sathanis DECIMATED the ENTIRE Allied fleet at the capella node... FS1, at least the Lucifer destroyed ships... and the lucy can take on 6 orions veunerable, without the superlaser or beams... Saths can't do that... So beams just made the game worse... It mnade missions shorter...
FS1: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: 5 out of 5
FS2: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :no: 4 out of 5
-
I like choreographing beam combat, headache though it may be. Have you played the mission included in the old Reciprocity vp?
(Following blacked out due to minor surprise spoilage)
You're investigating a wrecked Aten (and you're sat right next to it, scanning the bugger) and then an Orion jumps in and zaps the cruiser, leaving you abou two seconds to get clear of the blast ;7
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
d) I played FS2 first, but even so I had respect for the Bastion's history, and shed a small tear when it had to be sacrificed...
e) What difficulty? Any hacks?
Things is, if you're not going to get in to the spirit of a game like this, why are you even playing it? It's like playing Resident Evil or Eternal Darkness and not allowing yourself to be scared silly - if you don't let the story and atmosphere sweep you up, you lose a massive chunk of the game. You never feel part of the proceedings, and ultimately you just lose out. I feel quite sorry that this has been your eperience of FS2, BD :(
f) erm.....no comment.....can't be sorry for a hunk a' junk gettin blown up
g) Insane, is there any other difficulty? ;) Last mission is about shooting trebuchets on bombers.....easiest task EVER...they couldn't make the last mission any simpler or more easy...or the one before that.....and the one before that.....and the one before that.....
I TRIED to allow at least SOMETHING to sweep me up, but it just didn't work, it was corn-eh.
Maybe if the music was better and they gave it some actual momentum, but really...d00msdey mus|k ain't really r0XX|ng my s0X, more like making me go to bed earlier
-
Try watching something without music, it's gay. It's all about the music.
Is anything good enough for you? I doubt it.
-
Originally posted by BD
a) never noticed until I played the thing a second time, it went: "Psamtik you emerged far from the knossos, WTF!!!!! NOO!!!!!!!!!!!!, Psamtiks loss was a great one, OK NEXT MISSION!
You never noticed?? Were you stoned while playing this game? It's only the main part of that whole mission! Please, you're not going to convince anybody by pleading ignorance.
Using your frame of mind, I'll recall the loss of the Galatea: "It's the Lucifer! WTF!!!! NOO!!!!!!!!! We lost the Galatea, NEXT MISSION!"
Why, how similar those two events look when you think about it in your frame of mind. You choose to care about the Galatea and you choose to not care about the Psamtik. Don't really like Vasudans, huh?
b) the thing with the colossus was expected, if you couldn't see it happen I suggest you go read some stories, the thing follows a pattern
ROFL! If you knew anything about written stories, you'd know the good ones always have plot twists and unpredictable events. FS2 has many of these, FS1 has few.
What pattern? Reasons and explanations please, don't be like your buddy QD and just spew nonsense.
Losing the Colossus reminded me a lot of losing the Galatea. Both times, you're looking good, you took out all the enemy bombers threatening the Galatea and the Col just polished off a Ravana with little trouble. Then you're forced to just sit and watch, helpless, as the Lucifer/Sathanas slowly tears apart the Galatea/Colossus. You knew at that point there was no way you could stop them.
c) couldnt care less about the 3rd fleet, read above, I WANTED IT TO DIE, it was ANNOYING
Why was he annoying? He gave you your objectives and walked you through every mission. Without him, you're lost. And in case you didn't play it, there was a Command guy in FS1 as well, what was the difference?
And loss of 3rd fleet headquarters symbolizes (yes, more stuff resembling good literature) the GTVAs defeat to the Shivans. You didn't feel any sense of doom when you lost headquarters!? Your main base!? It's like losing the Mothership in Homeworld, or the Command Center in Starcraft, or any other RTS. Losing the Colossus then further drives this point home: the GTVA got their asses kicked.
e) I got each and every one to the node, try go and learn how to play
Aha, finally some proof that you didn't even play the mission, you hacked it, or at least didn't pay attention to what was going on (which is likely, since you didn't even notice losing the Psamtik the first time). The supernova is timed to go off while the last elements of the convoy are still far from the node. It is impossible to save them.
f) erm.....no comment.....can't be sorry for a hunk a' junk gettin blown up
Obviously you never played FS1. I find it incredibly hard to believe you dearly loved FS1, and then didn't feel any connection to the Bastion.
g) Insane, is there any other difficulty? ;) Last mission is about shooting trebuchets on bombers.....easiest task EVER...they couldn't make the last mission any simpler or more easy...or the one before that.....and the one before that.....and the one before that.....
Glad you see you actually played with the intent of trying to have fun. I'd have been bored too if I sat 4 or 5 clicks from the battle squirting off trebs with a support ship right there. Hit your burners and get in the fight, coward.
I TRIED to allow at least SOMETHING to sweep me up, but it just didn't work, it was corn-eh.
No, you started out prejudiced against the game from the beginning, because the plot wasn't as simple and straightforward as FS1. If you payed attention to the plot, made an attempt to figure out what was going on, you wouldn't have been bored.
Maybe if the music was better and they gave it some actual momentum, but really...d00msdey mus|k ain't really r0XX|ng my s0X, more like making me go to bed earlier
For one thing, the attempt at haxxor doesn't help the argument. The briefing music for FS2 is amazing, especially the famous Ravana mission briefing music. And the FS2 in game music was so similar to FS1, I fail to see how you're holding it against FS2...unless of course you hated FS1's music as well. What do you want? Blasting hardcore metal?
FS2: 1
BD: 0
Again I'll state that FS1 was a fantastic game. I loved it and I play GEs FS1 port all the time. FS2 built and improved FS1 in almost every way, which is why it is one of the greatest games of all time, and by far the best space combat sim I've ever played.
EDIT: Changed some wording to be less hostile ;)
-
Very, very well said there. :nod:
-
Aight Foo' this is gonna be long'n'hard.
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
You never noticed?? Were you stoned while playing this game? It's only the main part of that whole mission! Please, you're not going to convince anybody by pleading ignorance.
Using your frame of mind, I'll recall the loss of the Galatea: "It's the Lucifer! WTF!!!! NOO!!!!!!!!! We lost the Galatea, NEXT MISSION!"
Why, how similar those two events look when you think about it in your frame of mind. You choose to care about the Galatea and you choose to not care about the Psamtik. Don't really like Vasudans, huh?
Wrong, You never get time to assimilate with the ship, you never get to truly play along side it in a fight, wooooo it nukes a corvy, omg... pathetic.
Galatea comes in and saves yer butt plenty of times. Or visa versa, you are really a part of it's defence unit.
Psamtik? It's there, just talking an' shootin debris, really, you meet it once or twice, get put on a couple of missions with it in which you're never really even involved WITH THE SHIP IN MISSION.
When it dies, you can't see it go, less impact on you psychologically.
Galatea, you have a feeling of complete uselessness, you watch the lucifer hang there for a few seconds, then it hits Galatea, then it jumps out like it didn't even break a sweat...!! NOTHING you can do to it will ever make up for that loss in that mission.
To highlight that, you're being told about this /Ingame/ the mission before, AND you get a full command brief reflectively on it's loss the next mission. Which you also get hit with the news Vasuda went bye bye too.
ROFL! If you knew anything about written stories, you'd know the good ones always have plot twists and unpredictable events. FS2 has many of these, FS1 has few.
What pattern? Reasons and explanations please, don't be like your buddy QD and just spew nonsense.
Losing the Colossus reminded me a lot of losing the Galatea. Both times, you're looking good, you took out all the enemy bombers threatening the Galatea and the Col just polished off a Ravana with little trouble. Then you're forced to just sit and watch, helpless, as the Lucifer/Sathanas slowly tears apart the Galatea/Colossus. You knew at that point there was no way you could stop them.
Most good plots DO have plot twists, but not so many that you start to think "christ, is this useless crap gonna end? blahdeblahdeblah"
When the Colossus gets killed, You can save it, heh, stupid crappy mission doesn't think players are that skilled, or aren't you? I notice people who seem to not be so good and have trouble with the game(s) prefer FS2...
Most fiction will have ONE major plot twist, otherwise things just become anti-climatic, FS2 does that.
Why was he annoying? He gave you your objectives and walked you through every mission. Without him, you're lost. And in case you didn't play it, there was a Command guy in FS1 as well, what was the difference?
And loss of 3rd fleet headquarters symbolizes (yes, more stuff resembling good literature) the GTVAs defeat to the Shivans. You didn't feel any sense of doom when you lost headquarters!? Your main base!? It's like losing the Mothership in Homeworld, or the Command Center in Starcraft, or any other RTS. Losing the Colossus then further drives this point home: the GTVA got their asses kicked.
What What?
Command came across as fools, tactically retarded fools too.
Colossus was a flawed concept to start with, you don't build things that take up THAT Much resources to maintain, even the american's aren't that bloody stupid.
well, at least I hope we don't see any super-cruisers the size of a small island soon.
3rd fleet HQ? uhhhhhh............nope, just another arcadia, it's like, completely defendable too, give me a couple of squads of my quality pilots 'n' the shivan's will never get near, bring along a couple of drunks (BDHR) or other select pilots and even SJ's wont get near it.
Corvette's are the only effective per size ship in the game for the GTVA, so command puts all it's faith in desties!! ...bakayaro.
However, losing 3rd fleet, is no different, to loosing Vasuda, just that it isn't "Someone's home world" You don't lose "A couple billion people" when you lose it, command made a bright choice, run away, cuz they don't know how to fight.
Colossus parralels Galatea in someways, but whilst you thought of the Colossus in awe, I thought "Stupid, bloody stupid, one bigass target, it's gonna die, and die fast, it wont make it to the end of the game." I was right, first time I saw it.
Aha, finally some proof that you didn't even play the mission, you hacked it, or at least didn't pay attention to what was going on (which is likely, since you didn't even notice losing the Psamtik the first time). The supernova is timed to go off while the last elements of the convoy are still far from the node. It is impossible to save them.
Normally encountered after you been through it a few times, actually I think I pointed it out to him, I study these game flaws, we use them a lot to win in Multi, the game play is something I master, whilst I may not know your fred missions, I know what good game play is, the final mission was one of the only ones I enjoyed. The rest? Tedious. (Oh I enjoyed defending the bastion too, but that was a bit too easy, considering on insane now I can do it without losing any more then two (cough fred2 setup) wingmen, and not even a scratch on any of the four caps.)
Glad you see you actually played with the intent of trying to have fun. I'd have been bored too if I sat 4 or 5 clicks from the battle squirting off trebs with a support ship right there. Hit your burners and get in the fight, coward.
Well like I said, it's about the only mission I have fun with, even if he don't.
No, you started out prejudiced against the game from the beginning, because the plot wasn't as simple and straightforward as FS1. If you payed attention to the plot, made an attempt to figure out what was going on, you wouldn't have been bored.
I took the plot to pieces it looks like the kind of movie no one watchs, or the kind of book no one reads.
FS1, on the other hand, doesn't drag on and on, pumping you with climax and anti-climax for an emotional responce that isn't queued enough to be delivered, sorry, but FS2's timing sucked, it's not got much in the way of really making you feel like you belong to anything ('cept maybe the acquitain, but that disappears for the last few missions... because you're in your 'shiny elite wing' did anybody actually manage to fail or not do the missions with the blue lions perfectly?...Those were missions for the elite? GAHD!!!!!)
For one thing, the attempt at haxxor doesn't help the argument. The briefing music for FS2 is amazing, especially the famous Ravana mission briefing music. And the FS2 in game music was so similar to FS1, I fail to see how you're holding it against FS2...unless of course you hated FS1's music as well. What do you want? Blasting hardcore metal?
The music was ok, I'll OCCASIONALLY Listen to FS1 music, never FS2, Period, did the first time, screw the rest, music wasn't the best selling point for the game, I had my anime and stuff to fly to, they're better.
FS2: 1
BD: 0
...Newbies keep scores, Vets win games.
Again I'll state that FS1 was a fantastic game. I loved it and I play GEs FS1 port all the time. FS2 built and improved FS1 in almost every way, which is why it is one of the greatest games of all time, and by far the best space combat sim I've ever played.
linkage would be nice....
And.....multiplayer conversions would be incredible...
In general, you're the one talking out your ass.
-
Originally posted by Falcon X
Try watching something without music, it's gay. It's all about the music.
Is anything good enough for you? I doubt it.
Don't know werther to ignore it or fall in love.
Ok, now time to deal with the village idiot, apparently he doesn't have a clue about some things...
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
You never noticed?? Were you stoned while playing this game? It's only the main part of that whole mission! Please, you're not going to convince anybody by pleading ignorance.
Using your frame of mind, I'll recall the loss of the Galatea: "It's the Lucifer! WTF!!!! NOO!!!!!!!!! We lost the Galatea, NEXT MISSION!"
Why, how similar those two events look when you think about it in your frame of mind. You choose to care about the Galatea and you choose to not care about the Psamtik. Don't really like Vasudans, huh?
Trying to copy me makes you look idiotic, try not to do it. Now onto the point, which is simple...Yes, you are right, it was the main aspect of the mission. What you forgot to add was that the mission was COMPLETELY SENSLESS (like 75% per cent of the single player missions in FS2 [tm]). It SUCKED and it was BORING, and all I wanted was to complete it just so I could finish the god damn game.
ROFL! If you knew anything about written stories, you'd know the good ones always have plot twists and unpredictable events. FS2 has many of these, FS1 has few.
What pattern? Reasons and explanations please, don't be like your buddy QD and just spew nonsense.
Losing the Colossus reminded me a lot of losing the Galatea. Both times, you're looking good, you took out all the enemy bombers threatening the Galatea and the Col just polished off a Ravana with little trouble. Then you're forced to just sit and watch, helpless, as the Lucifer/Sathanas slowly tears apart the Galatea/Colossus. You knew at that point there was no way you could stop them.
Are you REALLY that dumb? Don't you get stuff? Go read some stories for christ sake and stop wasting my time. The Colossus was in one of the last missions, not only was that mission out of place, it was sensless. Kill the never-ending Mara's that jump in (oh yeah that's hard to do for me) and throw in some Rakshasa or a Cain while we're at it to keep the mind busy while something "important" goes on in the distance...at least in FS1 you tried to DO something about the fact that the Galatea was about to be lost. You got a sense of accomplishment later that you DID manage to save the pods and the crew. I couldn't care less if the thing exploded 9clicks from me, I DONT CARE, IT'S NOT MY RESPONCIBILITY.
Why was he annoying? He gave you your objectives and walked you through every mission. Without him, you're lost. And in case you didn't play it, there was a Command guy in FS1 as well, what was the difference?
And loss of 3rd fleet headquarters symbolizes (yes, more stuff resembling good literature) the GTVAs defeat to the Shivans. You didn't feel any sense of doom when you lost headquarters!? Your main base!? It's like losing the Mothership in Homeworld, or the Command Center in Starcraft, or any other RTS. Losing the Colossus then further drives this point home: the GTVA got their asses kicked.
I'm getting repetetive, but again, I didn't give a damn(tm). The guy on the Messana was TOTALLY annoying with his voice like he was talking out of his ass. Furthermore you take the beating of the HQ as the main loss of the game? Where the hell were you from the start, the GTVA has been nothing but losing all along with some small senses of victory. But I guess the GTC Eriksson was too small of a loss for you, you needed an Arcadia to explode so it would feel big. And if you really were fooled by the fact when Khafre said "...with this we have nothing more to fear", then again, you should go read and try connect stuff.
Aha, finally some proof that you didn't even play the mission, you hacked it, or at least didn't pay attention to what was going on (which is likely, since you didn't even notice losing the Psamtik the first time). The supernova is timed to go off while the last elements of the convoy are still far from the node. It is impossible to save them.
I don't need to hack anything funny boy, I'm the best pilot this game has ever seen. I proved it time and time again against dosens of people like you who just got their head out of their ass and tried to imagine that they actually knew something about stuff. Go call someone else a hacker, we're all stocked up here with those petty accusations. I did everything I could do to get everyone out safe. Supernova was out of my jurstiction, but the bombers and the Cains were dealt with so that they didn't cause ANY damage ANYWHERE!
Obviously you never played FS1. I find it incredibly hard to believe you dearly loved FS1, and then didn't feel any connection to the Bastion.
Assumptions? I'm not here to listen what you think about what I did. Go fish stuff to someone else, I'm not hungry.
Glad you see you actually played with the intent of trying to have fun. I'd have been bored too if I sat 4 or 5 clicks from the battle squirting off trebs with a support ship right there. Hit your burners and get in the fight, coward.
Sorry I don't use your tactics. I always go down with the mission/supernova, the only time I ever jumped out was to test if there was another ending.
No, you started out prejudiced against the game from the beginning, because the plot wasn't as simple and straightforward as FS1. If you payed attention to the plot, made an attempt to figure out what was going on, you wouldn't have been bored.
Don't tell me what I am, I devoted more time to FS1 and FS2 then you could possibly imagine, and I was doing it most likely when you were still sucking on your mother's breast, now go watch your cartoons dear boy, unless they are already finished so you need to take a nap.
For one thing, the attempt at haxxor doesn't help the argument. The briefing music for FS2 is amazing, especially the famous Ravana mission briefing music. And the FS2 in game music was so similar to FS1, I fail to see how you're holding it against FS2...unless of course you hated FS1's music as well. What do you want? Blasting hardcore metal?
Buy a hearing aid, the FS1 music was TOTALLY superior towards the music of FS2.
FS2: 1
BD: 0
Did you just get out of the first grade or something?
Again I'll state that FS1 was a fantastic game. I loved it and I play GEs FS1 port all the time. FS2 built and improved FS1 in almost every way, which is why it is one of the greatest games of all time, and by far the best space combat sim I've ever played.
FS1 was the best game I ever played, FS2 shows symptoms of trying to be better but fails. Which has not stopped me from playing FS2 for 5 straight years. Nuff said.
EDIT: Changed some wording to be less hostile ;)
Would have prefered the raw version, at least we could see how stupid you really were...
God damn you for forcing me into this position, all this is about to turn into is name calling since you had to think you know something.
-
ehh, son the mission where colossus dies has some stupid form of importance, they think it's a distraction for the shivans, uhuh, ;) not that those forces would be better left to defend the Bastion itself, heh...
One thing I do wonder, did they still dispatch the second orion?
the nebby the nova left woulda been nice resources...
Uhm, yeah, side note, questions about BD and I in the ways of skill playing this game....?
....Uhm, Ask anyone who plays it online :lol: :lol:
Oh, I forgot, you guys don't think much of online...hehe, come try it, you might realise there's a whole different set of skill levels above insane ;)
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
ehh, son the mission where colossus dies has some stupid form of importance, they think it's a distraction for the shivans, uhuh, ;) not that those forces would be better left to defend the Bastion itself, heh...
Oh yeah I almost forgot the infamous "WE'LL HOLD THEM OFF HERE" words while he was at 2% hull
Great holdage.....30seconds for 30 000 lives.....good one
-
Depends. hehehe
I remember it saying that while on like 70% or something stupid and the SJ got no beams left ;p
And, 30000, you think, thirty thousand bombers would be slightly more effective then that stupid hunk of floating rock ;p
-
I could never bring myself to give a damn enough to try and actually save the thing
-
LOL I wonder why ;)
the VA did a fairly good job of making himself sound a hero that mission though, it did impress me, for the first time through....
rest of his stuff is like..."uh yeah blah..."
-
Even the Americans aren't that stupid
*****.
-
Originally posted by Hades
*****.
Well sorry, putting up such a large target does make one easy to hit :P
I mean, why'd you think Microsoft get so much jip?
They actually did a fairly good job, the first REAL Multi-tasking OS was theirs, even designed the system themselves, but for cripes sake, they're mistakes are just as bad....lol
I ain't gonna start on the US Mistakes though....
-
Call Microsoft whatever names you like.
Anyway, back on topic, just so this thread doesn't get closed:
I think fs1, and fs2 are both equal in there own seperate ways.
US hasn't made many mistakes compared to a lot of other countries.
-
Sigh...I guess I'll start with the most obvious...
Did you just get out of the first grade or something?
Judging from your spelling, grammar, personal attacks, and futile attempts to get a point across, I think everyone is asking you that question.
Trying to copy me makes you look idiotic, try not to do it. Now onto the point, which is simple...Yes, you are right, it was the main aspect of the mission. What you forgot to add was that the mission was COMPLETELY SENSLESS (like 75% per cent of the single player missions in FS2 [tm]). It SUCKED and it was BORING, and all I wanted was to complete it just so I could finish the god damn game.
Copying you got my point across, that if you choose to not care about the Galatea or the Psamtik, you won't. Just as you decided to not care about the Psamtik, I could decide to not care about the Galatea. It depends on your frame of mind, which unfortunately, is quite negative.
And what was senseless about the missions? You say that over and over, how dumb and pointless the missions were. Yet you never give any reasons as to why the missions are senseless! That mission you were supposed to finally capture Bosch, certainly there's a good reason to be there. You find a new subspace portal and, realizing the importance of this new node, Command wants to take control of it. What is so senseless?
Are you REALLY that dumb? Don't you get stuff? Go read some stories for christ sake and stop wasting my time.
Was this personal attack brought on for a reason? What point of mine are you trying to refute? That good stories have plot twists and unpredictable events? I don't know what you define as good, but a story that I can predict from cover to cover is not good at all.
The Colossus was in one of the last missions, not only was that mission out of place, it was sensless. Kill the never-ending Mara's that jump in (oh yeah that's hard to do for me) and throw in some Rakshasa or a Cain while we're at it to keep the mind busy while something "important" goes on in the distance...at least in FS1 you tried to DO something about the fact that the Galatea was about to be lost. You got a sense of accomplishment later that you DID manage to save the pods and the crew. I couldn't care less if the thing exploded 9clicks from me, I DONT CARE, IT'S NOT MY RESPONCIBILITY.
Again with the senseless. I'll explain. If you attack the Gamma Draconis node (obviously an important place, the Shivans will fight to defend it) you take attention away from the Epsilon Pegasi node, buying time for the Bastion and lessening the attack on it. What would have happened if that Sathanas, or even the Ravana, attacked the Bastion instead of the Colossus? Game over, man...game over.
And since you're so good at FS2, you should have cleared out the Shivans before the Sathanas arrives, letting you watch the destruction of your most powerful warship. I see your point though, if it isn't your charge, you don't care. Very admirable.
I'm getting repetetive, but again, I didn't give a damn(tm). The guy on the Messana was TOTALLY annoying with his voice like he was talking out of his ass. Furthermore you take the beating of the HQ as the main loss of the game? Where the hell were you from the start, the GTVA has been nothing but losing all along with some small senses of victory. But I guess the GTC Eriksson was too small of a loss for you, you needed an Arcadia to explode so it would feel big. And if you really were fooled by the fact when Khafre said "...with this we have nothing more to fear", then again, you should go read and try connect stuff.
A guy has an annoying voice...okay, we'll let him and his crew die, no big deal.
BTW, the GTSC Erikson was a science vessel that visited the Gamma Draconis system 15 years before FS2. And even if it was a real cruiser, HQ is slightly more important than a single cruiser, so yeah, I count that as a much larger defeat, the ultimate defeat, just as I would consider losing my main base in a strategy game the ultimate defeat.
"go read and try connect stuff" :wtf:
I don't need to hack anything funny boy, I'm the best pilot this game has ever seen.
Sorry, are these posts bruising your ego? Finding yourself a little out of your element? Seems like it, since to make up for your verbal inadequacy you pompously proclaim how awesome you are at the game.
"knew something about stuff." Thanks for being crystal clear about that is supposed to mean.
I did everything I could do to get everyone out safe. Supernova was out of my jurstiction, but the bombers and the Cains were dealt with so that they didn't cause ANY damage ANYWHERE!
I'm sure you did everything you could, and if you managed to prevent all that damage, more power to you. All I am saying is that when the supernova comes, the trailing parts of the convoy get vaporized, and I asked if you felt any loss for those civilians.
Don't tell me what I am, I devoted more time to FS1 and FS2 then you could possibly imagine, and I was doing it most likely when you were still sucking on your mother's breast, now go watch your cartoons dear boy, unless they are already finished so you need to take a nap.
Love the personal attacks...shame they don't help you win this argument.
God damn you for forcing me into this position, all this is about to turn into is name calling since you had to think you know something.
Check your post again, looks like the name calling starts with you, BD.
At least quantum attacked my actual arguments for the most part instead of resorting to a screen full of insults and personal attacks.
-
Originally posted by Hades
Call Microsoft whatever names you like.
Anyway, back on topic, just so this thread doesn't get closed:
I think fs1, and fs2 are both equal in there own seperate ways.
US hasn't made many mistakes compared to a lot of other countries.
on topic.
I'd mostly agree with you, I just dislike most of the plot for the single player campaign, hense why I never play it...lol
off topic.
You are correct, the US hasn't made many mistakes compared to a lot of other countries.
However this is taken out of context, in America's short history, it has made more mistakes then almost all the other western countries combined in diplomatic and tactical senses, the last war it was actually involved in and should have been, was WWII, most of the rest...."Stop communism" ...What an evil concept is sharing wealth!!!......
Uhm, yeah, anyways.. Your current leader is at it again.
Don't get me wrong, on a personal level I love americans, as individuals, but you talk to a single one about patriotism and it's like you're talking to mr. or mrs. brainwashed..well mostly, you talk to them about history? they seem to have this uber-biased view of stuff...it's...very strange... they're about the only country in the world that actually has an education syllabus which has almost obvious biased spin on it (....a lot of people I've talked to US or otherwise, have agreed).
Seriously though, I hate England for somewhat the same reasons, just to a lesser degree because it has other benefits over the US.
Like I said, on an individual level, American's are much the same as other countries citizens, needing to be dealt individually.. cuz they're all different, and a lot of them really cool....but....geez....politics......heh.....
-
Archon, come play multi.
other then that, uhm, yeah, try answering my points now, they'll take a slight bit of thought (that's the point....but if I wrote this huge long essay, with all linked points, and a full grammatical check, etc, then start using my drama and theater arts education, as well as my english literature and english language marks (...I got the second highest grade my school had ever seen, the girl who got perfect was the one that was being supported by my roles in class...)
...Though, I don't have time for that too often....heh
That's my problem, never enough time.
It also gives you a chance to reply, if I had ten pages of text, you'd have a hard time trying to find holes in it, believe me.
-
Archon, come play multi.
I would, but the university firewall isn't very friendly to online gaming. I'll come if you want a lag/disconnect party, though, assuming I can get on PXO. :sigh:
I'll concede, I'm a pretty bad pilot :p
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
shame they don't help you win this argument
Didn't know this was a contest :)
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
I would, but the university firewall isn't very friendly to online gaming. I'll come if you want a lag/disconnect party, though, assuming I can get on PXO. :sigh:
I'll concede, I'm a pretty bad pilot :p
Pity you can't be online...
Ten minutes under my study and I garauntee you'd improve 50-100%...hehe
As for the uni firewall, there are ways around it, best that you don't try to host, but you should be able to get ingame at least..
hmm, I'm not the networking guy around here, normally I leave that up to a few of my techie friends....err I'll see what I can do ;)
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Pity you can't be online...
Ten minutes under my study and I garauntee you'd improve 50-100%...hehe
As for the uni firewall, there are ways around it, best that you don't try to host, but you should be able to get ingame at least..
hmm, I'm not the networking guy around here, normally I leave that up to a few of my techie friends....err I'll see what I can do ;)
I've flown under you for about 2 god damn years, and i still suck ass
..... oh yeah that ill be that not listening to what you say thing wont it :rolleyes:
-
You're not exactly as good as me, I know that bro, but look AROUND you, you're 56k, and better then A LOT of people on high speed, COM'N man,
And no, I've never gotten around to teaching you properly cuz the two times I tried you didn't listen ;)
Stillllllllll.............
We'll see....
There's still some life in me before I go bye bye (read FS forum SSC bro.......heh.....)
-
I suppose i will have to go there from time to time wont i .... :d, anyway im not playinf FS2 half as much as i used to, but im sure ill make my way on there some time.
-
Ah.. Quantum Delta's a SW fellow... that explains a lot
-
Neop, I was an FS1'er long before an SW'er, and I'm not even actively involved in SW anymore, also, we kinda never had a team that could stand up to us...so flamewars didn't apply ^^
-
FS1 good, intorduced new forms to the conventions of SCS genre, FS2 expanded on it cloning and recloning fs1 events, Nuff said, BTW >> ITS A GAME PEOPLE DONT ARGUE OVER A FRICIN GAME, ITS CHILDISH. :nod:
-
this thread doesn't make a lot of good sense to me... it's like asking which of your children is better looking when they are both equally as ugly. ;) :p
-
Originally posted by Colonol Dekker
FS1 good, intorduced new forms to the conventions of SCS genre, FS2 expanded on it cloning and recloning fs1 events, Nuff said, BTW >> ITS A GAME PEOPLE DONT ARGUE OVER A FRICIN GAME, ITS CHILDISH. :nod:
I happen to like this game, a lot. I don't like it when some guy starts ripping it to shreds for terrible reasons (or rather, no reason). Plus I rather enjoy arguing. So I stood up for it. If you have a problem with arguing about it, don't read the thread :p
BTW - You threw in a little argument yourself, there.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I mean, why'd you think Microsoft get so much jip?
They actually did a fairly good job, the first REAL Multi-tasking OS was theirs, even designed the system themselves, but for cripes sake, they're mistakes are just as bad....lol
There is NO BLOODY WAY I can let that statement stand. I can name about 5 OS's off the top of my head that could mulitask before any of Microsoft's pathetic attempts at multitasking came along.
Windows NT came along only in ~95. UNIX had already split into several different multi-tasking variants. BeOS had been around for a couple of years already and the Amiga had been using a multi-tasking OS for over 10 years.
And if you think that they aren`t proper OS's I suggest you log off right now and stay offline cause the internet wouldn`t even exist if it had been left to MS.
-
I happen to like this game, a lot. I don't like it when some guy starts ripping it to shreds for terrible reasons (or rather, no reason). Plus I rather enjoy arguing. So I stood up for it. If you have a problem with arguing about it, don't read the thread
lol, you share all of my characteristics there. :D I would have also entered this fight from the beginning, but I don't have a lot of time these days; maybe a bit later today, though.
BD and QD: Although I am a fellow SSC guy, I must say that your arguments (if they can even be called that) seem really silly for the most part. If I can find some free time today the fun is really going to start... :D (and the people around here can tell you what happens when I start arguing... ;7)
-
FS1 good, intorduced new forms to the conventions of SCS genre
That is the single, most foolish thing I've read in this thread. FS1 had no new ideas in it. ever played Wing Commander, or any of the other numerous Space Combat sims that came before FS?
FS only enhanced and refined those characteristics, and was very well executed, but did nothing new in itself. FS2 was a refinement of what was good in FS1, an evolution, not revolution, and while some many complain, it's just like Starcraft, which had nothing new in itself, but was so flawlessly executed, that I don't hear anyone complaining.
I don't really want to comment about most of the Anti-FS2 comments, since Shiva Archon replied to most of them expertly, but claiming that the FS1 music is better than the FS2 music?!?!
FS2 took the good music in FS1, and gave it to you in stereo, as opposed to the mono of FS1 (Don't tell me you didn't notice they share music), and I find all the FS2 tracks to be more atmospheric, and just plain better musically, than the non-shared FS1 tracks.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
BD and QD: Although I am a fellow SSC guy, I must say that your arguments (if they can even be called that)
I wasn't arguing ;)
-
Originally posted by karajorma
There is NO BLOODY WAY I can let that statement stand. I can name about 5 OS's off the top of my head that could mulitask before any of Microsoft's pathetic attempts at multitasking came along.
Windows NT came along only in ~95. UNIX had already split into several different multi-tasking variants. BeOS had been around for a couple of years already and the Amiga had been using a multi-tasking OS for over 10 years.
And if you think that they aren`t proper OS's I suggest you log off right now and stay offline cause the internet wouldn`t even exist if it had been left to MS.
....Nope.... although the other systems were capable of having (or appearing to have) two or more programs running at once, They had problems.
95 was the very first with automated task switching controled by the OS, not by the user, Whilst the others could stand multiple programs being up, it couldn't run them like that, they would go inactive if the user wasn't directly doing something.
95 introduced the 'Process Model' and 'Process Image' system, which would write to vitual devices, certainly, the technology was possible before that point, but no one had implemented the ability for it, programs had to control CPU interrupts themselves, including those on Unix, Gem, and other such systems.
I'm not playing about here, if you want to try me...
Go read a book called "Operating Systems" It was written by two guys, Madnik and someone...I'll find the other author out soonish, that is /THE/ Book to read if you wish to read about OS' because it deals with all, and/or generalised principles, explaining how things were done, and developed.
(The two authors were guys who developed IBM's first major operating system..)
CP, I will welcome your points, however if you want a full answer from me it'd probably have to wait until christmas, I had to analyise FS as a form of new age literature at one point, and then I was asked to expand upon it I did FS2.
Comparing FS1, and FS2 in terms of literature, FS1 would outsell FS2 if it were made filmage or bookage, simply because society doesn't have much lit which keeps you on continual plot twists.
...if you didn't notifce...apart from that stupid horror genre which isn't scary anymore...(...Was it ever...?) nothing does what FS2 does unless it's part of a long running series, period...
Hmm. Something like FS2 would be okay, if they didn't let it become so anti-climatic...
I remember my mates thinking after they blew the ravana "There's more? blah....." ehh, I'll go through and play the whole thing again soon, (preferably after XP Corp arrives....) and I'll dig up my notes from English Lit...
Side note, Kara, Who's on a university course that has to study operating systems? hehe...
I know what I'm talking about :P Even as much as I hate microsoft O.o
-
You are of course joking. An OS with proper multitasking doesn`t suffer from mouse and keyboard locks because one of the programs is busy yet this is so frequent with windows even today that it is beyond a joke. This alone is enough to prove that windows multi-tasking is deeply flawed and therefore your definition of it as a REAL multi-tasking OS is also flawed.
I don`t care if the multi-tasking is controlled by the program or OS. What I care about is that microsofts definition of multi-tasking makes apologies for the fact that a single task can lock the entire system.
As for your book I suggest you look into the background of these people before you quote from them. M$ isn`t above hiring people to re-write history to make them look more inovative than they are.
-
Damn Double post
-
...You just brought a quote to mind, but I'm not that harsh...
..Seriously, try actually LEARNING a thing or two about Operating Systems before you open your mouth.
For an operating system to be a true Multi-Tasking operating system, it must handle automated task switching, where the CPU will tick over between programs without input from the user.
There are no exceptions.
It's unfortunate that MS did it first, but they did, deal with it.
I'm not going to repeat myself again and again until you understand, Obviously you wont.
It was microsoft, get over it.:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Wrong, You never get time to assimilate with the ship, you never get to truly play along side it in a fight, wooooo it nukes a corvy, omg... pathetic.
Galatea comes in and saves yer butt plenty of times. Or visa versa, you are really a part of it's defence unit.
Psamtik? It's there, just talking an' shootin debris, really, you meet it once or twice, get put on a couple of missions with it in which you're never really even involved WITH THE SHIP IN MISSION.
The corvette thing was used to introduce the player to the beam weaponry. Man did that look cool. A very impressively created scene, IMHO.
And, HELLO!!! You served aboard the Psamtik for ten missions! THERE WAS THE PSAMTIK MAIN HALL!! Not to mention Admiral Khafre. You saw the Psamtik as much as you saw the Galatea in the main game. So NYAH
3rd fleet HQ? uhhhhhh............nope, just another arcadia, it's like, completely defendable too, give me a couple of squads of my quality pilots 'n' the shivan's will never get near, bring along a couple of drunks (BDHR) or other select pilots and even SJ's wont get near it.
So you're a good player. That's your fault. Some player are less good. It is a challenge to them. And since the less good players number greater than the I-can-beat-FS2-in-insane-with-no-sweat players, :v: has to think of them first.
I took the plot to pieces it looks like the kind of movie no one watchs, or the kind of book no one reads.
Well, how do you explain FS2 being noted everywhere for having an enthralling storyline. Apparently 90 000 people watch that movie.
The music was ok, I'll OCCASIONALLY Listen to FS1 music, never FS2, Period, did the first time, screw the rest, music wasn't the best selling point for the game,
bah, Cinema 2, the Intro music, the Battle 2 music, the Battle 3 music, the Battle 1 music. Let's put it like that. The music was bad is your opinion. Not a fact.
I had my anime
End of discussion for me
-
Ok can we all stop *****ing and whining now?
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
End of discussion for me
Anime? (http://icestar.hypermart.net/quantumdelta/baka.wav)
You know, you should try getting some culture, if you believe Anime is all about the crap that they put on Cartoon Network for little children, you're sorely mistaken, and it's your ignorance for not knowing better.
I'll hand out a fairly long explanation at a later date about the FS2 campaign for people like CP and Shiva, however you sir.
Just need to listen to the wav.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
The corvette thing was used to introduce the player to the beam weaponry. Man did that look cool. A very impressively created scene, IMHO.
And, HELLO!!! You served aboard the Psamtik for ten missions! THERE WAS THE PSAMTIK MAIN HALL!! Not to mention Admiral Khafre. You saw the Psamtik as much as you saw the Galatea in the main game. So NYAH
Yes you're right, we all spend 2 or more hours watching the main hall instead of playing the game
So you're a good player. That's your fault. Some player are less good. It is a challenge to them. And since the less good players number greater than the I-can-beat-FS2-in-insane-with-no-sweat players, :v: has to think of them first.
There are challenging missions, just that one and many of the rest weren't.
Well, how do you explain FS2 being noted everywhere for having an enthralling storyline. Apparently 90 000 people watch that movie.
I'm quite sure FS1 was competing and eventually broke the all_popular Wing Commander at the time
bah, Cinema 2, the Intro music, the Battle 2 music, the Battle 3 music, the Battle 1 music. Let's put it like that. The music was bad is your opinion. Not a fact.
True, that's an opinionated matter...that's why I think that fs1 music was vastly superior towards the biblical fs2 crap...
End of discussion for me
BAM^^^^^^
-
Okay, I know the flamethrowers are under the seats, but while I'm at it, anybody need more Napalm?:D
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...You just brought a quote to mind, but I'm not that harsh...
..Seriously, try actually LEARNING a thing or two about Operating Systems before you open your mouth.
For an operating system to be a true Multi-Tasking operating system, it must handle automated task switching, where the CPU will tick over between programs without input from the user.
There are no exceptions.
It's unfortunate that MS did it first, but they did, deal with it.
I'm not going to repeat myself again and again until you understand, Obviously you wont.
It was microsoft, get over it.:rolleyes:
Windows is only a multi-tasking operating system by MS's own definitions.
Unix, AmigaOS, BeOS etc were all using the term multitasking long before windows 95 came along. It's rather arrogant of MS to then rewrite the dictionary and claim that they were the first.
Let me put it this way. What is more important in a car? That it fullfils the dictionary definition of what a car is even if it doesn`t run or that it has four wheels and you can drive it?
Anyone with half a brain can see that certain tasks can lock the system up preventing anything else from running. Hell even my 15 year old Amiga can multi-task better than that. I`ve never seen the mouse pointer slow down or stop on it because another task was running. I`ve never seen mp3 playback stutter or crawl cause I brought another program to the front.
In the definition of what multi-tasking was BEFORE MS re-wrote the book there are plenty of OS's that can multi-task better than windows can now, that were written long before MS came onto the scene.
-
....Jesus, maybe you really should click the link (Anime?) too.
Multi-tasking is not true multi-tasking unless it can be done simultaneously (without user input, and from the user perspective), those OS you list CANNOT Do that, Their programs had to do it for them, which is NOT a multi-tasking operating system, MS did NOT re-write the dictionary, it was a system that UNIX and GEM were trying to perfect, MS just beat it too them with the 'program interrupt' line, which would tell the CPU to switch between programs for a few CPU-Seconds or MicroSeconds, You REALLY Need to go learn what you're talking about. The Other systems, although they were capable of having multiple tasks loaded, did not have the ability to RUN multiple tasks, the others would sit dormant while the main program was in focus. WHAT? Do I have to spell it out for you?
Your analogy is assed up too, "Automobiles" would be a better one, True Multi-tasking could be Articulated lorries, the others which would carry over multiple programs but not run them without user control would be People Carriers. Yeah, they both got wheels, yeah they both got engines, but there's a big ass difference.
I study this at degree level, and stupid ignorant fool who just doesn't like MS comes in and thinks they're a freaking expert, she talks like s/he wrote GEM or UNIX. Take a hint, you went out of your league challenging me on a field I KNOW BY FACT that I'm Right.
Christ.
Go look it up...Jesus wept.
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Issaac Asimov.
"It's amazing how everytime you open your mouth you prove you're an idiot" - Akira Tokayama.
-
Would you babies stop *****ing about operating systems? It is quite annoying for mister know-it-all QuantumDelta to be sitting here starting flame wars, while hijacking this thread, flaming everybody in sight, and still not saying a thing about fs2 or fs1 in their posts.
So in short.
SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and Quantum, you're not the only one, I just pointed you out because you seemed to be the one keeping this fight going, almost everyone else has tried to stop it.
-
That's kinda true, you kids can take the OS debate to the IM's, this ain't the thread for it anyway :wink:
Sparky with the link needs to cool down too :p
What the thread is really about is that FS1 is way better than FS2 and that's what we should be focusing on :D
-
I dun really care, FS vs FS2 is always going to be a matter of oppinion, I've started flying through the main campaign of FS2 again, 21 missions down a few command briefs and a video, taking notes again...
Like I said I'll work on that one :P
....The OS Stuff, That's Factual...
....Stupidity is one of the few things which /REALLY/ Annoys me, Especially when people contest something that I know is one hundred percent true because I just freaking covered it in university, some half cocked-moron who thinks they're been computing all their lives comes along and tells me it's wrong, eventually I'm going to start getting a bit pissed off because it's like trying to hit pintacks into solid rock with a sledge hammer....
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
95 introduced the 'Process Model' and 'Process Image' system, which would write to vitual devices, certainly, the technology was possible before that point, but no one had implemented the ability for it, programs had to control CPU interrupts themselves, including those on Unix, Gem, and other such systems.
Even MS think you`re talking crap. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/winhistorydesktop.mspx (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/winhistorydesktop.mspx) They say NT was the first multi-tasking OS not 95.
Edit. oh well looks like everyone else is bored of OS stuff. I`ll leave it here
-
stop the ****ing OS talk. You are acting like inmature assholes that can't even think. I know people in my sister's fifth grade class that are better behaved than this
EDIT: Thank you Karajorma, just saw your edit. You're not an idiot:D Now, let's continue arguing about fs2 vs. fs1.
-
Originally posted by Hades
stop the ****ing OS talk. You are acting like inmature assholes that can't even think. I know people in my sister's fifth grade class that are better behaved than this
While that part was very mature, wasn't it? :p
This is gonna be the fs1 vs fs2 locked thread #3456230475203945783
-
Wow, s/he actually got something right, congratz.
Suprised you actually went to look it up, I wasn't sure if it was NT3 or 95, so I just guessed because I knew 95 had it incorperated, it was the logical choice considering if NT didn't have it it woulda looked even dumber ;p
I woulda add some more stuff about that....but Hades will probably blow a gasget, even if it's not in a flaming nature ;) lol
-
Could somebody lock this thread, it has blown its purpose way out of proportion. We've had enough of these.
-
heh...but its soo much fun watching people ***** at eachoter...
-
Don't lock the thread, there's no reason to, the flaming isn't that bad, relatively.
-
Originally posted by Analazon
heh...but its soo much fun watching people ***** at eachoter...
Volition Bulletin Board - should_be_description :D
-
Back in the good ol' days these discussions were a ton better. What's his face who claimed to be the best pilot would have had to prove it. Not to mention these topics hadn't been pounded in.
-
If you want "Proof" come see....
Goku/Quantum_Delta my normal names, if you can't find me, just ask someone, most of the people down there know exactly who I am.
You are right about the topics being pounded in :P
/me starts playing campaign on x2 compression....
-
Originally posted by Falcon X
Back in the good ol' days these discussions were a ton better. What's his face who claimed to be the best pilot would have had to prove it. Not to mention these topics hadn't been pounded in.
Proved time and time again...for about...what...6 months now?
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
I like choreographing beam combat, headache though it may be. Have you played the mission included in the old Reciprocity vp?
(Following blacked out due to minor surprise spoilage)
You're investigating a wrecked Aten (and you're sat right next to it, scanning the bugger) and then an Orion jumps in and zaps the cruiser, leaving you abou two seconds to get clear of the blast ;7
I have no problem with beams, but the ships relie on them too heavily... Like the colossus... It relied on beams too much... THATS why the Iceni escaped (supposedly) If it had had more than 45 laser turrets, or used its fighters, it could have destroyed the Iceni... The NTF people caused a "malfunction" mainly to disable the beams... but if they had put laser turrets into a different weapon console, because the gunners aren't actualy IN the gun on a ship that big... so they could have been able to fire off at least a salvo of TerranHeavyTurrets which would make 20 green blobs flying into the Iceni... 20 is hardly enough to kill an Ursa... So if they used more laser turrets, they might be able to hit it with 100 or so green blobs... (For those of you with XWA or StarWars books, a Vic Star Deuce has over 450 Turbolasers, and they are only 1.1 k long... An ISDII had over 600, and could bring 200 to bear on any target at any time)
just for fun...:
From Colossus Captain (whats his name?)
Command! Were experiencing a massive global malfunction in firing control!
-
That's not how the FS2 universe works hippo, ships don't have hundreds of turrets. Not only can the engine not handle it, it goes completely outside the way capital ships exist in FS2. Also, turrets do not have the "big" tag, so they could not destroy the Iceni just like fighters couldn't. Only beams, bombs, and trebs can destroy it.
And only beams provide real capship combat. You've played FS1 I'm sure, there wasn't any in that game.
And if you played XWA, you'd know how ridiculously easy it is to kill any and all capships in that game with any fighter, it's just stupid.
edit: Not to mention what the Sathanas would have done to the Colossus if it only had TerranHugeTurrets...can you say complete slaughter?
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
If you want "Proof" come see....
listen to him.
he's awesome.
he's experienced.
i can't think of anyone that he can't beat.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Go look it up...Jesus wept.
huh? i don't get it
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
That's not how the FS2 universe works hippo, ships don't have hundreds of turrets. Not only can the engine not handle it, it goes completely outside the way capital ships exist in FS2. Also, turrets do not have the "big" tag, so they could not destroy the Iceni just like fighters couldn't. Only beams, bombs, and trebs can destroy it.
And only beams provide real capship combat. You've played FS1 I'm sure, there wasn't any in that game.
And if you played XWA, you'd know how ridiculously easy it is to kill any and all capships in that game with any fighter, it's just stupid.
edit: Not to mention what the Sathanas would have done to the Colossus if it only had TerranHugeTurrets...can you say complete slaughter?
Luci had a form of beam cannon... Flux, it's a bit odd....
It was possible to kill any cap in a fighter, in FS1, that's something I miss in FS2, sorely...
I suppose it makes the game play a tiny bit harder..like...the difference between floating and gliding.. it does take some enjoyment out of it though...
However Shiva is very right, Beams are the only real viable way for capship battles in FS2, simply because the ships are stupidly big, but... that's all compensated for.
When I complained earlier about the beams, I meant the anti-fighter beams, they're undodgable.
If they miss, it's either because weaps-sub is damaged/it's been set in fred / you're fairly far away.
Having weapons fired at you you cannot dodge goes against my style of gaming...especially when they just go through your shields...
And Stealth, I can't beat BD anymore, that's about it though ;)
-
*thinks of random good players from top of head*
what about bava?
-
Only at Coop, and he's alright at TvT, pretty much inactive now, even though we were pretty close in skill when he was around..I've improved about 2000% since he went offline.
If you were to consider him now, he'd probably be average at best, PXO in general has been improving in skill (...I train random peeps, also playing with people a lot raises their skills because I don't hide my tactics/flying styles, no secrets)... and we're still top of the pile.
Edit....
Actually, thinking about the skill levels themselves....
If Bava was about an SSJ1 when he was around...
hmm... about 15+ times better then he was.... not really 2000%, almost though....
Further Edit...
There is a skill plateau, right on the top, where BD is, it's very very difficult to increase your skill level beyond that, there are no tricks, no tighter turning, the only thing you can do is what I do, but that takes longer.
I've studied pretty much every flying style I've ever met, and incorperated it, so my accuracy is good, my turning is good, my reactions are good, my spacial awareness is good, what I'm not so good at, my only REAL weak point, is duels....
TvT and Coop, you probably wont find a better combination then BD and I...
-
This guy sure isn't underconfident.
If I think hard, I think I've played with BD once or twice. everything else escapes me.
-
At least about two years ago, the truly best pilots I have seen around were without a doubt the couple of the Drak people; these guys were like the ultimate team. I have not played FS2 multiplayer regularly since then and things may have changed in the meantime.
It was possible to kill any cap in a fighter, in FS1, that's something I miss in FS2, sorely...
okay, where is that older topic on this same subject? I distinctly remember addressing this issue and saying why this complaint made no sense whatsoever.. :p
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
It was possible to kill any cap in a fighter, in FS1, that's something I miss in FS2, sorely...
I suppose it makes the game play a tiny bit harder..like...the difference between floating and gliding.. it does take some enjoyment out of it though...
Not so realistic to be able to take out a huge destroyer with piddly fighter guns and anti-fighter missiles. When was the last time you saw a guy with a machine gun sink an aircraft carrier?
When I complained earlier about the beams, I meant the anti-fighter beams, they're undodgable.
If they miss, it's either because weaps-sub is damaged/it's been set in fred / you're fairly far away.
Having weapons fired at you you cannot dodge goes against my style of gaming...especially when they just go through your shields...
Yep, exactly. Sucks to attack capships doesn't it? That's why I love anti-fighter beams so much, because I'm tired of playing games where I can destroy huge warships with impunity, having no threat to myself. At least in FS2, you have to think tactically and disable those weapons.
Finally...capships are a threat to something instead of just a big fat worthless target.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
This guy sure isn't underconfident.
If I think hard, I think I've played with BD once or twice. everything else escapes me.
I don't remember playing with you, that is unless you were under another name....
-
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
Not so realistic to be able to take out a huge destroyer with piddly fighter guns and anti-fighter missiles. When was the last time you saw a guy with a machine gun sink an aircraft carrier?
I always thought that with an infinite amount of bullets, that would be possible...could be mistaken tho =)
-
Originally posted by karajorma
There is NO BLOODY WAYthe Amiga had been using a multi-tasking OS for over 10 years. .
Workbench 3.0 > MS OS's
Amiga ownz joo
-
Originally posted by 01010
Workbench 3.0 > MS OS's
Amiga ownz joo
Could it be that one of the users of the amiga port of Freespace has finally appeared on this board?
*The crowd wait with baited breath* :D
-
Originally posted by karajorma
Could it be that one of the users of the amiga port of Freespace has finally appeared on this board?
*The crowd wait with baited breath* :D
:lol: :lol: Kara :D
I wonder what It plays like ;)
-
I don't
-
It plays exactly like the PC version from what I`ve heard. I`m not certain if FRED was also ported though.
-
Originally posted by BD
I always thought that with an infinite amount of bullets, that would be possible...could be mistaken tho =)
well...theoretically yes...but there is the slight problem that bullets have very little effect on 6" (or greater...not sure) steel. Mind you they do take a few atoms off here or there, so you could eventually destroy it, but not very effective.
-
However, these are not Chaingun shells, they're lasers...
Kayser harnesses zero-point energy, that's the same stuff that the beam cannons themselves use...
You should be able to do damage.
Maybe not quickly, but it's still annoying when you've got a cap you can't kill, but you've completely disarmed and disabled it, only problem being no firepower with which to finish it off...
Jeez, I wouldn't even mind if it took AGES, I'd just set it to x4 compression, leave a shoe on the keyboard and walk off for lunch like I did with the Hades...
-
From a storyline plausibility point of view, that makes no sense though. Why would the GTVA bother building anything other than swarms of fighters if they were that powerful?
-
Actually, they probably should, the resources spent on the collosus in ways of Helios and URSA could probably nuke a SJ a thousand times over, and in about two seconds flat...
...It's just that the Collosus looks flashier...
...And suits the plot...
-
FS1= Big bad enemy ship
FS2 = More big bad enemy ships
GTA = We need our OWN big bad ,....what ? WTF do you mean it BLEW UP?!?!
:D
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
However, these are not Chaingun shells, they're lasers...
Kayser harnesses zero-point energy, that's the same stuff that the beam cannons themselves use...
You should be able to do damage.
Maybe not quickly, but it's still annoying when you've got a cap you can't kill, but you've completely disarmed and disabled it, only problem being no firepower with which to finish it off...
Jeez, I wouldn't even mind if it took AGES, I'd just set it to x4 compression, leave a shoe on the keyboard and walk off for lunch like I did with the Hades...
And that's precisely what made that mission so utterly stupid. One fighter could destroy the Hades. Now saving the cruiser, that's tough. Good thing the Hades wasn't doing anything other than sitting there. Perhaps corvettes shouldn't have the tag, but even if the Kayser did punch a hole through the hull of a destroyer; do you think a warship of that would be destroyed by a pinprick hole in it's hull?
-
If you were to bombard the same point on a ship for long enough, no matter what it is, you'd eventually make a very large hole in it, say you disabled something, you'd be able to bombard it, fly inside it, nuke it's generator, fly out and run away, FS isn't THAT Realistic, so you should be able to, with enough time, counter for that...
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
If you were to bombard the same point on a ship for long enough, no matter what it is, you'd eventually make a very large hole in it, say you disabled something, you'd be able to bombard it, fly inside it, nuke it's generator, fly out and run away, FS isn't THAT Realistic, so you should be able to, with enough time, counter for that...
NO, shooting the same point repeatedly, even with zero-point energy, would eventually create a very small hole clean through the ship. Yes, you might do some damage and open a number of compartments to space, but you are not (especially on a larger ship) going to necessarily take it down. You could luck out (or if it was more realistic, aim for) and hit the reactor, but that isn't exaclty plausable either. And besides, I doubt you could fit a fighter in a ship corridor, so you'd be doing a LOT of shooting to get to that reactor. As for your massive-numbers-of-Ursas idea, where exactly would all these craft be staged from? 1000 bombers, and especially 1000 heavy bombers, is more than are in any battlegroup or fleet in the FS universe. I think that the limitations on the capabilities of fighters is one of the advantages of FS2, not a shortfall.
-
...Ya know, I've only ever seen FRED users or MODDer's say that...heh...
You have your tastes, I have mine, IMHO, Massive Damage tags task enjoyment out of FS2.
Admittedly, they make it harder, however...
...I really don't need to worry about difficulty in this game, if I have trebs, even against an SJ, and a large number of fighters, I'd win eventually...
...Even with one respawn, so long as the stupid 'shoot through itself' bug doesn't come into play.
...Yeah that's another reason I hate that thing....
...Meh, bed time, functions and practicle programming in the morning...
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...Ya know, I've only ever seen FRED users or MODDer's say that...heh...
Funny, I think the majority of people on this forum (at least the active ones) would consider themselves one of the two...
EDIT: warm up the flamethrowers... ;)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...I really don't need to worry about difficulty in this game, if I have trebs, even against an SJ, and a large number of fighters, I'd win eventually...
...Even with one respawn, so long as the stupid 'shoot through itself' bug doesn't come into play.
yeah, but there is no way to create truely infinite fighters for the enemy, so they will eventually run out and you can use the trebs' insane range to peck the sathanas to death. What is the challenge in that? And the shoot through bug is only a result of bad model construction, not game design (says the modder).
-
Actually, they probably should, the resources spent on the collosus in ways of Helios and URSA could probably nuke a SJ a thousand times over, and in about two seconds flat...
...It's just that the Collosus looks flashier...
...And suits the plot...
And why would the Shivans bother building Sathanas ships then? (or anything besides fighters) Come on, it would so ridiculous if one stupid little bomber could nuke a juggernaut a thousand times its size. That is the Alpha 1 ultra elite pilot savior-of-humanity syndrome pushed to the extreme. (both FS1 and FS2, unlike other space sims tried very, very hard to avoid this crap, which is one of the reasons they got such high marks in reviews) This single-pilot madness works in some multiplayer missions, but that is usually the mission designer's fault.
I think that the limitations on the capabilities of fighters is one of the advantages of FS2, not a shortfall.
Exactly, and in fact, if you look at the reviews out there, almost all of them give the game extra points for this.
-
Agreed, QD, 30,000 bombers would be incredible. Problem is....where do you base them? You gotta have some kind of carrier ship (destroyers) and even then a Hecate can only hold 150 spacecraft. Thats *200* Hecate-class destroyers, with 10,000 crew each! 2 million people, plus 30,000 bomber pilots.
-
I tested that about a year ago, where I took about 50-70 (if that many at all, I remember the game would crash with more than ## number of ships) Ursa's with all helios, they nuked the SJ in the matter of...2-5 minutes I think it was.....
-
The fact is that if you allow fighters to kill anything then very soon there isn`t any point in having ANY capships apart from carriers.
What you would end up with was a completely different game. The shivans wouldn`t send in cruisers or corvettes every fight would just be GTVA fighters vs shivan fighters. Capships wouldn`t appear except for the players own carrier which would find itself under attack all the time from hordes of shivans.
Without capships I`d find the game very boring. Basically every mission would be one of a few types
- Defeat another shivan swarm
- Escort a freighter or troop ship
- defend the carrier
That's about all you can do. Any other mission would rapidly turn into one of those.
FS2 would be a completely different game if you allowed any fighter to kill a capship (regardless of size) and then think logically about what that would mean.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
And why would the Shivans bother building Sathanas ships then? (or anything besides fighters) Come on, it would so ridiculous if one stupid little bomber could nuke a juggernaut a thousand times its size. That is the Alpha 1 ultra elite pilot savior-of-humanity syndrome pushed to the extreme. (both FS1 and FS2, unlike other space sims tried very, very hard to avoid this crap, which is one of the reasons they got such high marks in reviews) This single-pilot madness works in some multiplayer missions, but that is usually the mission designer's fault.
Cetanu's mission...the online one..with the SJ....name escapes me...
Two wings of pilots (...BD and I play Use two Ares the rest URSA)
A corvette, and A Hecate, can take out...
- Sathanus
- Ravana
- Demon
- Two Corvettes
- Two Rakshasa
- Two Lilith
- A LOT OF FIGHTERS
...It's pretty easy, takes 26minutes.
My point is, what's more boring....
A ship that you can kill, only takes a very long time to do.
Or a ship that you can't kill because your AI is useless, and 'command' doesn't know how to deploy corvettes and other such ships.
CP
Also, the reason "Shivan's would have these ships" would probably be something to do with the supernova.
However, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself...
..It's a game, as most of the people here said, "lots of little ships is boring."
Actually, have any of you ever tried fighting 60odd Sekhmets, armed to the teeth with good weapons on insane before?
I made a mission such as^ for training purposes.
With the right people, it's possible, but no team has ever done it to my knowledge without BD and I playing O.o...
even with 16respawns....
The big ships are there to look pretty and flag up strategic objectives, however if only 'another big ship' or a bomber can kill those things, it's fairly annoying, considering you know fully well you could take out it's compliment of X (..You name it, we'll do it.) amount of fighters, and disable it, and disarm it, and completely nuke all of it's subsystems.
....It's kinda annoying that you have to add your own capships/bombers if you want to destroy it, especially if you're trying to use something like that for training purposes...
I do use FRED, and I can see how caps add to the game, but...geez... in FS1, I think, 2 Typhoon's are lost? The loss of an Orion was looked on as a MASSIVELY Tradegic defeat, FAR Beyond 3rd fleet HQ's loss, That stuff is stated in the tech room I think.... Why was that? Because THEY HAD TO BE PROPERLY DEFENDED. You couldn't leave them open and fend for themselves if there were 50 odd fighters around and just get the bombers.... because the fighters could kill it too, it gave you more variables to consider....
-
karajorma: you summed up my thoughts perfectly there. :nod:
Cetanu's mission...the online one..with the SJ....name escapes me...
Two wings of pilots (...BD and I play Use two Ares the rest URSA)
A corvette, and A Hecate, can take out...
- Sathanus
- Ravana
- Demon
- Two Corvettes
- Two Rakshasa
- Two Lilith
- A LOT OF FIGHTERS
...It's pretty easy, takes 26minutes.
My point is, what's more boring....
A ship that you can kill, only takes a very long time to do.
Or a ship that you can't kill because your AI is useless, and 'command' doesn't know how to deploy corvettes and other such ships.[/size]
I know, and in the majority of cases that is the mission designer's fault. Now in multiplayer this is of course excusable due the fact that respawns exist, but if a single player mission did this kind of thing and pitted the super ace Alpha 1 against the entire shivan fleet, it would suck, plain and simple, regardless of whether it was easy or difficult.
Also, the reason "Shivan's would have these ships" would probably be something to do with the supernova.
However, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself...
..It's a game, as most of the people here said, "lots of little ships is boring."
Actually, have any of you ever tried fighting 60odd Sekhmets, armed to the teeth with good weapons on insane before?
I made a mission such as^ for training purposes.
With the right people, it's possible, but no team has ever done it to my knowledge without BD and I playing O.o...
even with 16respawns....
So, you are saying that you want thirty campaign missions that are all fighter gauntlets of some sort? :p I can certainly understand one or two missions like this, but if the capital ships are not powerful enough, there is no point of putting them in at all, and all of the missions would become like this. Besides, this would once again bring the "gung ho best pilot in history Alpha 1" problem.
BTW I made a mission like this once, but I gave the computers the weapons that they are the best with and they completely smashed up the rest of us. :D
The big ships are there to look pretty and flag up strategic objectives, however if only 'another big ship' or a bomber can kill those things, it's fairly annoying, considering you know fully well you could take out it's compliment of X (..You name it, we'll do it.) amount of fighters, and disable it, and disarm it, and completely nuke all of it's subsystems.
Ah, now I see, you are pointing to a fundamental problem in the practical implementation of the game mechanics rather than what things are supposed to be like in theory. I will certainly concede that the FS2 game mechanics and AI have very big problems in them that allow such things, but things are still much, much better than they were in FS1 (and they were equally as much better in FS1 than in other previous space sims), but from what you are saying, instead of trying to fix the issue, you want the problem to be made much worse than it already is.
With some table edits and mission designing tricks however, these issues can be sort of bypassed. If everything worked perfectly as it was supposed to, at the most, you should be able to do what two or three others could do and even that is stretching it a bit, but as you said, even with the best table hacks, the enemy fighter AI is still pretty poor and this has to be compensated for by putting in a lot of them. But capital ships on the other hand, can indeed be made much more effective.
....It's kinda annoying that you have to add your own capships/bombers if you want to destroy it, especially if you're trying to use something like that for training purposes...
I do use FRED, and I can see how caps add to the game, but...geez... in FS1, I think, 2 Typhoon's are lost? The loss of an Orion was looked on as a MASSIVELY Tradegic defeat, FAR Beyond 3rd fleet HQ's loss, That stuff is stated in the tech room I think.... Why was that? Because THEY HAD TO BE PROPERLY DEFENDED. You couldn't leave them open and fend for themselves if there were 50 odd fighters around and just get the bombers.... because the fighters could kill it too, it gave you more variables to consider....
How does that have anything to do with making it a "massively tragic defeat?" (in comparison) In fact, from this information alone, it would be much less of a defeat, because the ship was pretty useless anyway and could not even take on a few fighters, so one would think that there was little point in having it around anyway. Besides, what kind of crazy GTVA training simulator would pit you up against a destroyer alone? Once again, that is really ridiculous from a story point of view. :p
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
but...geez... in FS1, I think, 2 Typhoon's are lost? The loss of an Orion was looked on as a MASSIVELY Tradegic defeat, FAR Beyond 3rd fleet HQ's loss, That stuff is stated in the tech room I think.... Why was that? Because THEY HAD TO BE PROPERLY DEFENDED. You couldn't leave them open and fend for themselves if there were 50 odd fighters around and just get the bombers.... because the fighters could kill it too, it gave you more variables to consider....
The main reason for that is cause in FS1 the capships were a big threat to fighters (until they got shields but the tech stuff was from before that).
With no shields it was pretty hard to stay close enough to a big ship for long enough to kill it. On top of that the bombs of the pre-shivan days were pretty weak so the only way to kill a capship was to put another one close to it and have them slug it out.
In FS2 you have shields making it much harder for capships to defend themselves (In fact you complain about fighter beams - the one main defense that caps have) so something has to be done to balance it out. If you removed fighter beams and made it easy to kill caps the game wouldn`t be much fun.
Command : "Sathanas 2 has made the leap to capella"
Alpha 1 : "Give me five minutes. I`ll kill it for you."
Look at FS1. How much fun would that have been if you could simply shoot the lucifer dead?
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Cetanu's mission...the online one..with the SJ....name escapes me...
Two wings of pilots (...BD and I play Use two Ares the rest URSA)
A corvette, and A Hecate, can take out...
- Sathanus
- Ravana
- Demon
- Two Corvettes
- Two Rakshasa
- Two Lilith
- A LOT OF FIGHTERS
...It's pretty easy, takes 26minutes.
[/B]
BTS aka Breaking the Seal :)
This mission is a lot tougher then the rest of the PXO valid ones - sure a team of excellent pilots can beat it if you have some LUCK beside your skill so that the Deimos survives long enough (heck, you can beat any mission unless it kills you every 20 secs and reduces your respawns to 0)
Telling here it's "pretty easy" is a lie... or why there are so few Sathanas killers around? :p
-
True, not easy when you don't know what you're doing and how you're doing it but QD and I do it on our own (just as I'm sure you do it with Bava or someone else alone) so how hard can it be? :wtf:
-
Well, we don't talk about the "gods of killing" here, do we? :)
-
Tru det...
-
the term "pretty easy" was that what I had a problem with...
sure, I can create a mission not even you and QD could win - let's say an escort mission where a beam kills the escort ship in 20 secs but that's as much fun as getting sober :D
for the "good" pilots on PXO my missions provide some training to get better, once they win them (on their own - not brought through with the help of known champs) they know they really achieved something... that's all I wanted :)
-
Originally posted by Cetanu
the term "pretty easy" was that what I had a problem with...
sure, I can create a mission not even you and QD couldn't win - let's say an escort mission where a beam kills the escort ship in 20 secs but that's as much fun as getting sober :D
for the "good" pilots on PXO my missions provide some training to get better, once they win them (on their own - not brought through with the help of known champs) they know they really achieved something... that's all I wanted :)
I didn't say it wasn't fun :P
BTW, do you have an instant messanger I could shout at you on? I just gotta brief message from Todd, wanna ask you how you want to reply...
-
check your PM here ;)
-
Got it :P
I was gonna say, if you don't, I'm in lobby, but loading icq now :P
-
Originally posted by karajorma
Could it be that one of the users of the amiga port of Freespace has finally appeared on this board?
*The crowd wait with baited breath* :D
Sadly no, at the end of the day, despite how good the Amiga was, it's a dead system now. :(
-
Originally posted by 01010
Sadly no, at the end of the day, despite how good the Amiga was, it's a dead system now. :(
I wouldn`t be too certain of that. Amiga look healthier now than they have for many years.
If they can make a come back is another matter but I for one wouldn`t mind seeing them do it :)
-
Originally posted by karajorma
I wouldn`t be too certain of that. Amiga look healthier now than they have for many years.
If they can make a come back is another matter but I for one wouldn`t mind seeing them do it :)
I'd love it, the stupidly named chips (angus, gary, linda :) ) the kickstart logo, the fact that workbench is the best O/S ever (**** windows/linux/BeOS/Unix/Whatever else).
Siiighhhh, never gonna happen though :(
-
Okay, this topic is so derailed now that it's time for it to die
-
And there is no better way to make it die but posting more and more in it
-
Yeah cuz then other people will get emails and then reply more....
BTW, I wouldn't mind Anti-Fighter beams if they did damage to shielding, and ripped that off, THEN did hull damage....but no.......
-
but no...it should be difficult to attack capships, so they should cut right through your shields and start ripping your hull apart. Makes it a lot more fun to attack capital ships when there's actually the possibility of getting destroyed.
-
What, when they're undodgable too?
It doesn't even damage your shields, which is BS...
That's why, I nuke all the fighters..then take out the turrets with ms...or maxim......
Then get bored....
I never fly bombers...Bombing is the lowest skill job in FS2 IMHO...
Even 'good bombers' even the sweet spots, if you bomb well, the job is done in about ten seconds...if you bomb bad, your own fault...
Point is...it's lame.... your target dun move, your ship is a brick which can't turn...just....bleh....
Strategic assault...that's my main job, nukin fighters'n'turrets, in heavy (Ares/Eri) or mk2, or other such...
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
What, when they're undodgable too?
Evidently you need to improve your flying, my pedigree chum.
Then get bored....
So you play the FreeSpace games... why?
I never fly bombers...Bombing is the lowest skill job in FS2 IMHO...
Really. So you think that bombing missions are easier than, say, intercept or escort missions, do you?
Even 'good bombers' even the sweet spots, if you bomb well, the job is done in about ten seconds...
Uh-huh. Your best time on "Slaying Ravana", if you would be so kind?
Point is...it's lame.... your target dun move, your ship is a brick which can't turn...just....bleh....
Hmm... so you don't appreciate the challenge of dodging enemy interceptors and turret fire to try and let rip with a pair of torpedos at point blank range, then (unless of course your 1337 skillz let you rise above the challenge?). This prompts me to ask once again, why exactly do you play either FS game?
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Evidently you need to improve your flying, my pedigree chum.
You don't know what you're talking about hehehe
-
Originally posted by BD
You don't know what you're talking about hehehe
Actually, since most everyone here has spent more time screwing around with mods than getting in dogfights, they probably do. Admittedly, dodging beams is difficult, but I have found that it is possible (in a bomber, no less) to get through a volly unscathed without too much difficulty. And if you don't find the Bombing is a valuable skill, then you are not as good as you say you are, because it relies more heavily on your ability to manage weapons and forces you to actually get within range of a capship's defenses. Sniping a ship to death, which is what you and QD seem to insist is the only way to do it, is blatently avoiding a real challenge.
-
I'm gonna repeat what QD said, and then stop doing it any more.....
BOMBING......IS......[SIZE=999999]EASY[/SIZE] [/b]
And uhm...I don't find beams difficult.....you DO know that they depend on the angles? You just gotta figure out the angles (and I think I know them by heart for most ships in the game) and attack from a certain angle where the beam can't get to you. Now the only thing that's supposed to do is stall you and make the mission seem more "harder" while in fact it's just BORING
I'll give you guys the credit for knowing a lot and being able to figure out stuff, I give credit where the credit is due, but most of you who spend time modding/fredding and stuff like that, aren't able to fly like we are. Next time you think about how you're gonna prove us wrong on a flying basis, just make a mental note that we know how to do that part of a job better than you.
Originally posted by StratComm
Sniping a ship to death, which is what you and QD seem to insist is the only way to do it, is blatently avoiding a real challenge.
And I don't know how to fly?.....................BAKARA...........
-
spoon
-
I would say he was being cocky, the unfortunate problem is it's true.
What I'm refering to about beams being undodgable, if you think it misses you by anything other then luck (....unless you're on the right attack angle) you really need to get your head straight, the beam's aim is only dictated in FRED2, on quite a few missions it's left on default, now I don't know what default is, but it basically says whether you get minced or not :P
It's not a challenge in a bomber, but bombers are boring because they're slow.
It's stupid in a fighter, because you can't kill it, at least not too easily, so....I just fly around and nuke weapon subs, and beams.
Point is, Diamond just kinda proved how little he knew about FS2...
Anyways, to answer your question about why I fly, because of the people in PXO, a lot of them I call friends, so I either fly to teach them, or I fly to social with them, anyway, ....I've never had as much fun on any single player mission (including a lot of these missions) as I have on some of Cetanu's in multiplayer, maybe you guys should take things into a little more balance, and come play "The Die Is Cast." multiplayer, you'll see how things can be, if you can pass that, maybe we'll take it up a level and do some TvT, or would that be too boring for ya, you know...no caps, and actually hard..?
As for my best time on that piddley ass mission with no speakable fighter cover (enemy or yours), give me a little bit, obviously I wont give you my first try, but we'll see ;p
(http://icestar.hypermart.net/quantumdelta/WhatRavana.jpg)
Fast enough for ya? Woulda been faster, but I stopped to kill two basilisk and a manticore and get another assist on a manticore..O.o
Oh, yeah, that was on hard too...I didn't reset it to insane....
-
Man that was tough wasn't it? FEEL THE PAIN FROM THAT MISSAN!!!!!!1one........peasly ass stuff......
-edit-
there you go, this is how HARD this mission is
(http://icestar.hypermart.net/blackdove/PIKZOR1.jpg)
yeah, insane, and the time down there if you can't read it is 2:37, and the time I got out was 2:54, I just didn't have the fancy stats like QD did.....
From this we can see how bombing needs "SKILL"
I'm betting the next accusation is CHEATER, HAXXOR!!!!1111111
-edit-
-
Jesus, you couldn't have picked a better hud could ya? :p
-
hey I LOVE PURPLE!!!!!! ;)
-
Yeah me too...but not in a pinky nebula.......dude....:wtf:
-
If you're blind, zoom in to check out the time.....
I love everything of mine to be purple pink......do you have a problem with that? :wtf:
-
you DO know that they depend on the angles? You just gotta figure out the angles (and I think I know them by heart for most ships in the game) and attack from a certain angle where the beam can't get to you.
err.. the beams on Slaying Ravana fire threw the ship at angles that go into the acctual cannon.. :doubt:
-
...which is yet another reason why beams are homo
-
Yeah we know that, point is, certain angles (even if there's nothing between you and the turret) the turret has a tendancy to miss, or at least it seems that way, as for 'dodging beams'
dumb luck.
If you think it's anything more, you should probably go back and click my "anime?" link....
-
.....or click this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/col/files/image_deserveseizure.gif) link :)
-
Beams arent nesasirly gay, just need some bugs worked out.
Have the Source Code peeps checked this out yet? Shivan aaf tends to fire through the ship (i.e. Cain, Lilith, Ravana, Demon) And the Colosuss tends to fire its LRBGreens through its hull...
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Anyways, to answer your question about why I fly, because of the people in PXO, a lot of them I call friends, so I either fly to teach them, or I fly to social with them, anyway, ....I've never had as much fun on any single player mission (including a lot of these missions) as I have on some of Cetanu's in multiplayer, maybe you guys should take things into a little more balance, and come play "The Die Is Cast." multiplayer, you'll see how things can be, if you can pass that, maybe we'll take it up a level and do some TvT, or would that be too boring for ya, you know...no caps, and actually hard..?
Let's sum it up: All the singleplayer missions and campaigns you have seen so far, and most of the older multiplayer missions are "to easy" and winable while sleeping, compared to some of the newer Coops or TvTs that you can find on PXO today.
Unfortunately QD or BD won't convince anyone who doesn't get on PXO and tests the later. ;)
-
Originally posted by BD
I'll give you guys the credit for knowing a lot and being able to figure out stuff, I give credit where the credit is due, but most of you who spend time modding/fredding and stuff like that, aren't able to fly like we are.
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/lmarshal/RavanaScreen.jpg)
undoubtely not the best time (still 1 minute short of QuantumDelta's time), but done in Insane. That should be enough to prove that Fredders CAN fly well.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
It's not a challenge in a bomber, but bombers are boring because they're slow.
It's stupid in a fighter, because you can't kill it, at least not too easily, so....I just fly around and nuke weapon subs, and beams.
Point is, Diamond just kinda proved how little he knew about FS2...
Diamondgeezer knows not little about FS2. He just knows less than you. I agree with him on most aspects (not counting his statement that beams are dodgable, because they ain't, their miss factor is defined in the tables).
That leaves us back to the fact, that you find FS2 too easy for your taste (which I find ironic, since you praise FS1, which was oh, so 5-6 times easier).
Second question, name a game, you DON'T find too easy. Off the top of my head, I can name only few games harder, than say, Hell's Kitchen in FS2 multi (FS single is undoubtely easy, but it makes up for a kick-ass story and near-perfect Voice Acting. And if you wanna see truly lame VA, play Star Trek: Hidden Evil) is... Heroes III... Aliens vs. Predator... meh, can't think of anything else right now.
-
Stun -- you're getting it, 'cept, we kinda said bombing doesn't take much skill.
Here's the flipside.
I can make missions, but I can't FRED as well as any of you guys, Although I can put in a mission with nice gameplay, it wont have much in the way of specials.
I think I've only ever met one FRED Users (Avid fredder) that comes up on a high level TvTist skill.
For the record though, we do play coops as well,
Naming those missions, hmm,
HK, yeah ok, it's alright, takes BD and I that's it...
uhh...TDIC BD and I, but hard, (read; REALLY HARD)
BTS can be hardish if you got only two, and by that I mean passing the whole thing perfectly...
A couple of Cetty's missions I can't name are hard too, but I think Cetty designed 'em to be impossible, or nearly such, I've made my own impossible missions before, Missile dodging, and Jenova Pt1. the problem with Jenova, as it was designed to be EXTREMELY Difficult...everyone complained when I was beta testing, so I changed it so much it was easy...which is boring...
ehm......
I really don't know what else to say, apart from if you're actually worried about our skill levels...come play us...heh
As for easy games, you don't need to name'em Stun, there's billions, don't sweat it ;)
FS single is undoubtely easy, but it makes up for a kick-ass story and near-perfect Voice Acting.
;) IMHO, far better then freespace2, I'm still trying to break down the campaign, only problem with that is, people keep calling me to multi...or...neocron...which...is...much more fun O.o
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
;) IMHO, far better then freespace2, I'm still trying to break down the campaign, only problem with that is, people keep calling me to multi...or...neocron...which...is...much more fun O.o
The kick ass story you're talkin about is the following: humans and big ugly aliens fighting. Aliens want to destroy our world. Some jibba-jabba. Aliens bring in their supership. humans destroy the supersip. The end. And it didn't have any jaw dropping plot twists.
Plus FS1 didn't have beams, SOC, "groovy" command and various other features. Also, half of the FS1 missions we so ****ing boring. PLUS the end was dissapointing. Everything went as planned (except Bastion). I just can't belive you're saying that FS1 is better than FS2.
-
When it comes to the core question of gameplay, the biggest difference between FS1 and FS2 is the primary/secondary weapon importance. FS1 had crap for missiles; even the best aiming ones didn't ever do sufficient damage to take out a target. But, it was much easier to take out fighter with primaries. FS2, on the other hand, made it very difficult to rely exclusively on primaries, and missiles had much improved accuracy and firepower. So, if you don't use missiles (unless you fly a stealth fighter, which is near-impossible to hit with homing weapons) you fight at a bit of a disadvantage.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
;) IMHO, far better then freespace2, I'm still trying to break down the campaign, only problem with that is, people keep calling me to multi...or...neocron...which...is...much more fun O.o
Just to clear things up, I meant FS2 Single. :D
The kick ass story you're talkin about is the following: humans and big ugly aliens fighting. Aliens want to destroy our world. Some jibba-jabba. Aliens bring in their supership. humans destroy the supersip. The end. And it didn't have any jaw dropping plot twists.
Now, ToT, I understand that you wish to defend FS2, but DON'T mock FS1 story. From your point of view, FS2 story is: Aliens want to destroy our world again. They send big supership. We send big supership. They send more big supership. We get our asses kicked.
FS1 story, was above your average standard, that is certain. I just rate FS2 even higher.
-
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
The kick ass story you're talkin about is the following: humans and big ugly aliens fighting. Aliens want to destroy our world. Some jibba-jabba. Aliens bring in their supership. humans destroy the supersip. The end. And it didn't have any jaw dropping plot twists.
Plus FS1 didn't have beams, SOC, "groovy" command and various other features. Also, half of the FS1 missions we so ****ing boring. PLUS the end was dissapointing. Everything went as planned (except Bastion). I just can't belive you're saying that FS1 is better than FS2.
excuse me, remember what year FS1 came out and what year FS2 came out
expansion packs/follow-up games are generally better than the previous game.
also, for the computers back then (1998 or whenever) that was the best they could do pretty much... beams, high-res textures, etc. would 0wn everyone's computer back then! the best they had was the P2 600 MHZ i think... IF that. back then i was on a P1 200 mhz.
i actually loved the FS1 storyline. sure graphics weren't as good perhaps, but overall i liked it better than FS2
-
FS1 was certainly head and shoulders above the other games at its time, but FS2 was equally as far ahead of FS1 in every possible way, which is of course to be expected considering it's a sequel.
I'm not sure how this got into an argument of who has more mad skillz; you may be the greatest pilots around, but that doesn't help the argument much. :p
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
Just to clear things up, I meant FS2 Single. :D
Now, ToT, I understand that you wish to defend FS2, but DON'T mock FS1 story. From your point of view, FS2 story is: Aliens want to destroy our world again. They send big supership. We send big supership. They send more big supership. We get our asses kicked.
FS1 story, was above your average standard, that is certain. I just rate FS2 even higher.
That's what I ment.
But actually it's pretty pointless to argue here about FS1 and FS2. Some think FS1 is better, some think FS2 but since FS2 gets much higher ratings than FS1, also is one of the best SCS ever (PC gamer thinks FS2 is THE best) and people here mod FS2 not FS1, so it's clear...
-
ToT IS right, it's a matter of opinion, but we all love to argue, so to hell with that.
The modding thing is not an argument though. FS1 is just older, and graphically/featurally weaker.
-
Besides, we have the source code for FS2. :D And as ToT said, I have never seen any game review site out there that gave FS1 a higher score than FS2; both are usually rated quite highly, but between the two there is sometimes a difference.
we all love to argue, so to hell with that.
especially me ;7
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
undoubtely not the best time (still 1 minute short of QuantumDelta's time), but done in Insane. That should be enough to prove that Fredders CAN fly well.
Yeah, great job but as I said.....that takes no skill
Originally posted by StratComm
When it comes to the core question of gameplay, the biggest difference between FS1 and FS2 is the primary/secondary weapon importance. FS1 had crap for missiles; even the best aiming ones didn't ever do sufficient damage to take out a target. But, it was much easier to take out fighter with primaries. FS2, on the other hand, made it very difficult to rely exclusively on primaries, and missiles had much improved accuracy and firepower. So, if you don't use missiles (unless you fly a stealth fighter, which is near-impossible to hit with homing weapons) you fight at a bit of a disadvantage.
It is amazing how every time you post you PROVE you can't fly. Not to mention not being able to comprehend stuff, and <<<<< wasn't a flame...
Originally posted by CP5670
I'm not sure how this got into an argument of who has more mad skillz; you may be the greatest pilots around, but that doesn't help the argument much. :p
We can judge missions and stuff like that far better than you, because we know how to experience them on all levels of appreciation ;7
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
(PC gamer thinks FS2 is THE best)
I rest my case with this person
Originally posted by Stunaep
ToT IS right, it's a matter of opinion, but we all love to argue, so to hell with that.
Damn straight.
-
Originally posted by BD
I rest my case with this person
:wtf: excuse me?
-
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
:wtf: excuse me?
Brainwashed by a computer magasine rating...if thats one of the high points of your opinion then I (or anyone else) needent listen to it, correct? We were all able to form opinions on the games ourselves, not through a magasine (at least I can hope) :wtf:
-
PC Gamer....lol....
They actually weren't to bad back in 97...ya know...when I didn't know much about games...but now....god...
PC Games I used to read, and NOM, gave up on that, NOM asked me to write a few strategy guides for them once or twice.
Specifically Golden Eye, and Zelda (Ocarina)
meh...
-
Not only PC gamer. But every other ****ing magazine too.
-
Just keep blowing wind on my windmill ;)
-
tat-tat, now, ToT, no need for unnecessary swearing.
When it comes to the core question of gameplay, the biggest difference between FS1 and FS2 is the primary/secondary weapon importance. FS1 had crap for missiles; even the best aiming ones didn't ever do sufficient damage to take out a target. But, it was much easier to take out fighter with primaries. FS2, on the other hand, made it very difficult to rely exclusively on primaries, and missiles had much improved accuracy and firepower. So, if you don't use missiles (unless you fly a stealth fighter, which is near-impossible to hit with homing weapons) you fight at a bit of a disadvantage.
I have to agree with BD on this one. Kayser. Maxim. Circe in FS2.
Hornet. Interceptor. Phoenix-V in FS1.
-
ToT, 99.9% of comp game mags are written by people I'd call amatures....
Originally posted by Stunaep
tat-tat, now, ToT, no need for unnecessary swearing.
I have to agree with BD on this one. Kayser. Maxim. Circe in FS2.
Hornet. Interceptor. Phoenix-V in FS1.
....What...The...Heck is it with everyone and that stupid useless pathetic primary combination....jeez...
Prom S/Kayser is better then that,
MS/Kay(or PromS) is better then that.
Circe is the most pathetic weapon I've ever found, do you realise it does just less the damage of the Kayser for almost the same energy?? Sheesh.... maxim is ok, but useless against any pilot with real skill, only two people EVER Killed me with a maxim in the last YEAR would be Cetanu and Enterich...
PV are pretty nice, Interceptor as ok...
Hornet was my love, lol, but I was almost 100% reliant on my primaries in FS1, then again, I'm still almost 100% reliant on them in FS2.
Not only that, the Missiles in FS1 locked and fired, and tracked, just fine, you just needed some skills to use it.
FS2? You get newbies come on PXO all the time and they just sit still and spam with missiles....do you REALISE how easy it is to evade pretty much 100% of incoming missiles (no matter the number of them) without cms???
Sheesh.... Missiles are useless against a good fighter pilot period.
It's funny though, those newbies sit there...'pow pow pow weee' they die in two shots "CHEATER!" and leave...
lol, oh deary me... no one really understands this game....even the programming experts don't know how to play it...lol
-
You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...
Mission Programmers can't fly you say?
:lol:
That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
tat-tat, now, ToT, no need for unnecessary swearing.
I have to agree with BD on this one. Kayser. Maxim. Circe in FS2.
Hornet. Interceptor. Phoenix-V in FS1.
Interceptors don't do a lot to shields, hornets can barely home, and Phoenix-V can only be carried in very small quantities. The kayser is quite effective, but it is still easier to take out fighters in FS1 with primaries than it is in FS2. Maybe it's the AI, maybe it's just game physics, but playing one and then the other, that is something I noticed really quickly. And I'm talking going from Clash of the Titans to Clash of the Titans II, so tech is pretty equivalent.
This deserves to be seperate, but oh well:
Originally posted by BD
It is amazing how every time you post you PROVE you can't fly. Not to mention not being able to comprehend stuff, and <<<<< wasn't a flame...
Yes it was. I may not be the best pilot, and I never claim to be. But I still know how to fly, and it's gotten to the point that your posts are just insulting. And as for the post you quoted, I was stating simple facts of observation, you attack me for being an idiot. I'm not going to get into a battle of words over this one, simply because it isn't worth it. You have both proven your single-mindedness enough for me. So flame all you like, but I hereby request that this thread be considered for lockdown because of the rediculous amount of flaming that has developed.
-
I wonder what happens if you click "report post to moderator"
:drevil:
-
don't know, should i try it? ;)
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Point is, Diamond just kinda proved how little he knew about FS2...
Originally posted by StratComm
Thanks, QD, for proving that you have NO IDEA what is going on here...
:wtf:...
Anyway...
What I'm struggling to understand, my pedigree chum, is why you are in a FreeSpace forum *****ing about how much the game sucks and holds no challenge for you. Would it not be easier to just a) not play it and b) stop *****ing. I mean, you've proven that you don't give a flying **** about the background or plot, and so if the actual gameplay is so pants, why do you play? Why are you here?
Perhaps you could find a new game, one worthy of your mad skillz?
And for the record, I have dodged AAA beams. If you're fast, you can take the first shot and dodge the second and third. Call me a liar if you like.
-
You can dodge them yes, although its extremely hard to dodge all 3 and you usually have to be going faster than 150 m/s.
This whole thread is GAY, not to mention i'm sure this has been argued before.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
Diamondgeezer knows not little about FS2. He just knows less than you. I agree with him on most aspects (not counting his statement that beams are dodgable, because they ain't, their miss factor is defined in the tables).
Cough.
:rolleyes:
Strat
Interceptors can take out a dragon with two in one hit, kay? they just gotta be fired right, go back and try, it takes some skill, or are you not getting it....?
Hornets home fine, you just need to fire them at the correct angle, and have your speed moving correctly in relation to the enemy fighters speed.
PV's are another matter, I actually agree that you can only hold a few which is too few, especially compared to Trebs, however PV pack more punch, They are also pretty much COMPLETELY Reserved for bombers/frieghters/Cruisers/Destroyers.
I personally love knocking out those Dragon's with the PV's in Failure to Communicate ;)
The Two do have differences in forms of game physics, but that isn't really much, I have always relied on a combination of weapons in FS2, point is, in both games, I have a tendancy of locking one, firing missiles at it, and killing another two with primaries in the time it takes the first to die.
There is just a matter of using the weapons differently, they are no more or less effective in either game, FS2 has a few different weapon values, Maxim, for example, it's alright...erm...for caps, but then you need it a bit...heh
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
What I'm struggling to understand, my pedigree chum, is why you are in a FreeSpace forum *****ing about how much the game sucks and holds no challenge for you. Would it not be easier to just a) not play it and b) stop *****ing. I mean, you've proven that you don't give a flying **** about the background or plot, and so if the actual gameplay is so pants, why do you play? Why are you here?
Perhaps you could find a new game, one worthy of your mad skillz?
Diamond, as we have said REPEATEDLY Throughout this thread FS1 Single Player, FS1 Multiplayer, FS2 Multiplayer
That would be why.
There is challenge, even if the only challenge is other humans.
I train people on PXO in the hope that they'll get better then I will, or at least better to be a challenge.
As for your quote, from a DIFFERENT THREAD, yeah, I read it wrongly, I've recently been dealing with a few issues about the online multiplayer 'bugs'.
I had 'Eri After burner max = 130' Stuck in my head, and I knew that I had left it to someone else to report it to the Source Code Project (Quiz, actually...hehe) so I figured there might have been a few crossed wires, if I'd done more then skim-read the topic, I probably wouldn't have butted in, I'm not calling you a liar for dodging beams, I'm telling you, you don't understand how they work.
Refer to Stun's quote.
Originally posted by Knight Templar
You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...
Mission Programmers can't fly you say?
:lol:
That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week.
Final point.
Come try it, kiddo. ;) What have you got to lose? :lol:
Expansion upon that final point.
Right now, BD and I are pretty much #1 and #2 on pxo respectively, lol, Suppose you do come down there and knock us off our pirch, it'd shut us up a bit, if you lose? meh, just another person like any other ;p
-
Final point.
Come try it, kiddo. ;) What have you got to lose? :lol:
Expansion upon that final point.
Right now, BD and I are pretty much #1 and #2 on pxo respectively, lol, Suppose you do come down there and knock us off our pirch, it'd shut us up a bit, if you lose? meh, just another person like any other ;p
:wtf:
Who do you think you are?
I Don't Care
~ How good you think you are
~ How good you are on PXO
So kindly shut up. Discuss your prefrences over each game, but don't flame or boast about how many n00bies you've beaten on PXO. Nobody cares. It only makes you look like a total jackass. Discuss the games and their aspects, but if you want to boast or flame.. you have an entire squadwar forum to spam.
-
Amen to that. This is why the VBBSW forum got shut down.
To be honest, I've played precisely two games on PXO. I have been thinking about playing again since I got ye olde broadband put in, but I really don't play FS2 any more, save play testing (and I avoid that like the plague :nod: ). Unfortuantely for me, when I moved to this city to begin my degree I discovered a whole new world outside my computer. Frankly, it's got better graphics and the AI is more believable. And, if people flame you you can punch them :)
-
Considering the 'name calling' actually STARTED with Templar over there, I think he should stfu himself ;) Ain't really my problem if my points are valid because I know how the game works, and which way things are supposed to be used, ya know..properly..?
It's like giving a child an AK, they can kill with it, yeah, but I doubt they could do an efficient a job as a trained soldier...
And whilst the kid might think the AK is REALLY COOL!!!!!!!!!!11oneone, the trained soldier would think "I gotta use this ****..? Great, where's my MG1?" or whatever.
Point being, you seem to neglect the fact that our skill levels DO Give us the Primary Say on it's gameplay, we know the twists, and turns, better then anyone when it comes down to how things work in the game, you wanna challenge us on that? Your funeral.
And no, we don't back down from that because as cocky as it sounds /WE KNOW/ we're right.
We've gone over the storyline, this is mainly again, personal preference, I compared FS2 to an American Thriller (Which is what most of my friends call it alright? because most 'thrillers' are american, they put you on constant climactic let downs, then just drop you and kick you around a bit, then build up a climax again, it all gets very dull because it's not actually scary...)
FS1, albiet a slightly simpler plot, REALLY DELIVERS the blows in comparison, you feel it more FAR MORE when you lose The Galatea compared to when you lose 3rd fleet, or The Collosus, Crap, you get much more from the urgent queues of impending doom, and a much empowered sense of 'you can make a difference' which you do, it's a last ditch effort, but you do.
FS2? Blah.
Just don't try it on about the game play, oki? ;)
-
Wait, lemme get this straight.
You guys play with your joysticks more than 20 hours a week give or take more than "the rest of us" so that means you get the final say on wether the freespace series is good or not?
:lol:
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Wait, lemme get this straight.
You guys play with your joysticks more than 20 hours a week give or take more than "the rest of us" so that means you get the final say on wether the freespace series is good or not?
:lol:
...Yeah I need that Tokayama quote again....
Akira Tokayama "It's amazing how everytime you open your mouth you prove you're an idiot"
I was talking, about the gameplay part of it, 99.9% of your contributions towards the game play of the two games have been flawed, oki? Merely what I mean =P
Ya know, same way I was told I didn't know what I was talking about in the other thread (true, I didn't) you, obviously don't know what you are talking about here.
Now hush =P
-
oooo that was "clever" ina paragraph if i've ever seen it.
:doubt:
-
Equally as valid as yours I suppose?
Oh deary me, brilliant come back...the copout....:rolleyes:
-
:lol:
Seriously though.. why are you guys even in here talking all this ****? Dude, you're a good pilot, so what? That doesn't make you an expert on The Games story line or ships or anything.
Yay, you can dodge beams and kill a Ravana in 3 minutes! Whopedy-dee! why not just go 0wn PXO instead of coming here and shouting non-sense at deaf ears?
I'm not saying I can fly better than you, so loose the gay ass fighter jock attitude that is so infamous. Granted you've played FS1 and FS2 for sometime no doubt, and that gives you more experiance than say somebody who just bought the game. But just because you are whatever number in your league online doesn't make you god of the Freespace vs Freespace thread.
Us "modders" (who for whatever the hell reason, you think you are better than) have just as much knowledge of "what we are talking about" as you. If this were a thread on PXO or piloting tactics, then I might not say anything, as I tend to not like to form an opinion until I know what I am choosing.
-
:wtf:
Who do you think you are?
I Don't Care
~ How good you think you are
~ How good you are on PXO
So kindly shut up. Discuss your prefrences over each game, but don't flame or boast about how many n00bies you've beaten on PXO. Nobody cares. It only makes you look like a total jackass. Discuss the games and their aspects, but if you want to boast or flame.. you have an entire squadwar forum to spam.
That about sums up my thoughts on this.
Actually, I remember in the VBB squadwar forum years ago, there used to be these long heated arguments at almost all times, and maybe half of them ended up with the usual boasting of "I have more m4d sk1llz than j00 so I am correct about everything, and if you don't believe it come and duel me!!" It was just ridiculous. :p
Just for the record btw, I used to be quite a FS2 PXO player myself, but went more into singleplayer and mods over time. :D
-
Tell me bout' it..
damn this thread brings back some old demons.. perhaps I can persuade an admin to bury it. :nod:
-
That's all well and good, however, whilst you were talking about the actual styles, and weapon values of the game as a group, we had the greater experience, I have, indeed, been playing FS1, and 2, since they were both released, online only about err.. must be 5years now.
I don't claim things I don't know for sure, unless stated 'I ain't sure but' or whatever, but with gameplay, it is as such...heh, point is, you take diamond for example, he plays only to test, and avoids that too eh? 'yup it shoots pretty beams and doesn't crash, ok good enough for me' uhm... =P
Storyline wise, as I think I said earlier, I had to take FS1 apart at great lengths, and then had to expand upon that taking FS2 into account, Suprisingly enough, the group, and the teacher, prefered FS1, simply, because the story whilst simpler, is a better, and easier thing to convey, the game itself does it brilliantly, which is my point, FS2's storyline is just a mishmash of various elements, the transending plot isn't really very uhhh... hmm, can't think of the word..lol.. it doesn't keep it's focus...
You can see a student trying to explain this, "You desperately engage your after burners and try to make up the gap to the Lucifer, pushing your ship as hard as you can, getting to the node, you engage your subspace drives, and hope to hell that you can handle what's going to be on the other side, knowing you'll have no shields, knowing that there could be hundreds of fighters, vs your small taskforce of twelve fighters and bombers, you fight bravely, and strongly, to keep the enemy fighters down while your team mates go to work on the reactor subsystems, hoping you can buy them enough time to take the ship out before it gets to Sol...Earth...Home... With only a few minutes before the Lucifer reaches earth, you blow the final reactor, and break out of the subspace corridor into the Sol System, hitting your burners again you run from the blast of the Lucifer, deadly to your small ships, and so you make it home, to a hero's welcome, except you have been sealed in this small system, all alone...."
Or...Alternately...
"Messing around with the plot, more messing around, more messing around, ok, now we get to the main point"
"OH CRAP WE STOMPED ON A KILLER ANTS MOUND RUN!!!!"
"Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node, making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight), we decide because we cannot possibly hold even a candle to these ships that we will evacuate, during the evacuation, whilst you're fighting with their forces, you receive a warning from command, the Capella star has gone super nova... you have to get out, you have to leave the others, there's nothing you can do but jump....you jump as the tidal wave of gravitational, radiation, and heat passes by the point your ship had previously occupied, you make it home, losing Capella, but you have gained a possible ticket home...Earth....32 years....I wonder what she'll be like...."
-
*grumbles about having been sent this.*
Play nicely.
-
****.
They *****, about this crap, just as badly as we are, not only that, but they use worse then MODers can't fly, with the stupid sw **** of the past, neglecting to mention it wouldn't really be a problem if they hadn't been as equally *****y about things as we were, "SW pilots just flame....blahblahblah...." ....uhh....go check your own posts hypocrits.
-
Well I think we won this argument the minute they all started going "I don't care"...of course you don't care...why should you? It just brings bad stuff on your mind, like being inferior in something...then the usual "sw.com, oh man they come from there, yeah, thats the reason we shouldn't listen to them, screw them, they only cause trouble and since sw.com was such a flameful place, they must be only the flaming assholes"...you people have any idea how many times that one has been used when the opposite side has nothing else to argue? :lol: It's getting to be one of those classic lines I'll have to quote for ma sig....
And knight, yeap it's been argued before, and yeap, it kinda had the same ending like this one's going to have :D
-
But......but........ they are nothing but flamers! :D ;)
On that note, I think it's time to get back onto a more rational and less inflamatority discussion style, mmkay?
-
Well I don't remember exactly what I have or haven't said in this one, but what I meant to say wether i've said it or not is you are acting like the old vbb squadwar arrrogant stuck up, generally unpleasant people that nobody liked.
Just get over it. You aren't better than everybody else. And the whole "modders can't fly" crap is arrogant and laughable. lol I wanna see what Stealth says when he sees this :wink:
At best, lets just keep this about which game you prefer ( Without Bragging/Flaming/ or complaining about the other game) And drop the "We are better than you, we fly PXO/SW people only flame" ****.. there's really no need for it here.
-
Ok, that's it. BD, QD, get a clue. You are in a modding forum saying, essentially, "we are right and no one can tell us otherwise." So think that you are right, go ahead. You are proving nothing to us other than that you are both arrogant, well, fighter jocks, who can't even break out of your own closed minds. And the "I DON'T CARE" is not shutting you out because of some twisted inferiority, it's because we honestly DON'T CARE.
sw.com, oh man they come from there, yeah, thats the reason we shouldn't listen to them, screw them, they only cause trouble and since sw.com was such a flameful place, they must be only the flaming assholes
And no, we didn't think that when you showed up here. You have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed flaming assholes. You came into a community where we, for the most part, get along, and have proceeded to attack us in every concievable way. Go back to blasting N00b's, since that's all you seem to want to do.
-
Nobody is flaming you for being squadwar people (heck, I used to be one); rather, it is this "I am the best pilot around and therefore know everything" attitude that people do not like. StratComm is quite right there; nobody cares how good you are, and it is not helping your argument at all to sit on it like this. (yes, I can quite see that you are not saying it at all for argumental support but rather to boast) I usually took your side in the pxo players vs. modders fights on the VBB, being a member of both parties, but this sort of behavior is not at all what I was defending. Fortunately I know that not all multiplayer/SW people act like this. I am a SSCer and your fellow clanmate, so I will not say nearly as much as I would otherwise, but others will.
Oh, and your story things are very opinionated; as Shiva said, I think you have made up your mind to think that FS1 losses are somehow a bigger deal than FS2 ones. Every game review I have seen out there (20+), without exception, gives FS2 extra points for having a much better plot than FS1.
-
uh oh, now he's gonna insult you for reading gaming magazines.. :rolleyes:
seriously though, like CP and Strat, we were never dissin' you for being from SW, only acting like the infamous idiots that have gave SW a bad name in the past. Do you not realize you are boasting or something?
It's been said once, i'll say say it again,
Nobody Cares
You're number one on PXO? Awesome. Now why not set a good example instead of carrying around an arrogant, distasteful supierority complex that makes you look like a bigger n00b than anyperson who doesn't know what they are talking about here.
-
I.
Said.
DROP.
IT.
-
...Still....waiting on reply to my last storyline critique....
-
And we're the ones flaming :lol:
-
You can be quiet 'n' all, even if they get the last word, :p
And damnit I'm serious be quiet =P
-
Erm.....hush :wtf:
But it doesn't matter anyway, they decided to take things the way they wanted, can't blaim em really and can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in their place.
Oh well, I'mma go immerse myself into dg's sig, I like it cuz the show was great :)
-
hahah, Beat you there by a day :p, I was looking for a song, found it too, blitzkreig bop...hehe, not as great as what I remember it being on the show...but it's still pretty good...:D
Nice linkage there DG ;)
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...
Mission Programmers can't fly you say?
:lol:
That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week.
Thumbs up KT!
Mission Designer spend 30% of their Mission Desiging behind FRED and 70% behind FS2, testing their missions on all possible skill levels. That develops skill, mind you.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Final point.
Come try it, kiddo. ;) What have you got to lose? :lol:
Expansion upon that final point.
Right now, BD and I are pretty much #1 and #2 on pxo respectively, lol, Suppose you do come down there and knock us off our pirch, it'd shut us up a bit, if you lose? meh, just another person like any other ;p
Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.
You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).
Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.
-
And forgive me Shrike for starting this again. I'll be sure to read the rest of the thread as well next time.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.
You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).
Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.
I hate to be the party pooper over all this but really - most of the people here who played fs1/2 since it came out have grown up now and have a life. They don't have time to sit and get 101% success rates in thier online gaming - they just do it for fun when they can, in between doing that they do best: modding/fredding in the little online time they take. Do I give a sh1t if any1 is higher than me on the PXO board? Er... no not really. I DO care whether people like my campaign, when its out, or if they like my plots/voice-acting etc but I won't go ***** at sum1 else if they aren't as good as me at it.
Now, to get back on track, slightly, I think fs1 was superior because it was first time we'd seen ANYTHING like it. we will always being in awe.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
Thumbs up KT!
Mission Designer spend 30% of their Mission Desiging behind FRED and 70% behind FS2, testing their missions on all possible skill levels. That develops skill, mind you.
No disagreement there, just that drones and humans are a slightly different thing, however yeah, it still developes skill, no argument there....
Originally posted by Stunaep
Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.
You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).
Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.
Didn't say you fly bad, (it's just a usual expectancy however, based on countless examples) but you yourself might actually fly good...I am sure of my abilities, I KNOW how I fly, I've flown against countless people, lost a lot, won a lot, where I lost I learned, where I won, I won the important parts where it counted...while I was losing I was a n00bie myself. Hey if you say you know how to fly, go right on ahead, but if you don't mind I'd like to see you prove it...I don't recall sterotyping anyone, and saying "you fly bad YEAH I KNOW" without getting some sort of a hint before that. People just kind of went to the extreme in order to form some sort of insult when they are not able to assert the valid points, and go and say how I'm discriminating everyone.....it's simply not true....and then of course on top of that because swforums got closed since they lost its purpose, everyone has that as something to fill a line or two of their post, and feel smart as if they knew something :)
And I see the most don't get that by talking about who's better was a side topic to determene who can judge what better...it was the part where we started talking about our experience QD and I, where everyone got insulted on how their opinion suddenly doesn't count as much as ours in the gamplay area since they can't fly as us. Naturally people don't like admitting they're wrong so they just throw the "Yeah, you flamy pompous asses, go back to swforums and get the hell out of here, since you don't know anything, and if you do we don't care" speech. Consequently I don't give a damn if people find me as an arrogant ass, couldn't care less about anyones opinion on me. however what bothers me is that most people here would like to replace their inferiority complex or the creativity lack by trying to take offense as the best defense, and end up dragging the topic away from what it originally was.
Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...
Oh and psst, you Neo-Terran-Nazi-T2-Scout :p, don't close the thread yet cuz this might just go somewhere if everyone stopped feeling insecure and dropped the "I don't care act" ;)
-
just that drones and humans are a slightly different thing
oh? and what is that supposed to mean exactly?
Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...
Why? Maybe cuz people think it's old now? I dunno, that's why I didn't bother.. Why don't you respond to it, unless you are just parroting him.
if everyone stopped feeling insecure and dropped the "I don't care act"
But you see, that's exactly it. We Don't care. Not in the slightest. If I were contending with you for 2nd place or whatever.. perhaps then.
-
...Side note, no we don't out rank them, we could, if we liked, but, like points were stated for here before...
Playing Rebel Intercept fifteenhundred times does not equal skill, damn, I can complete that mission in an ares, picking up every single kill (....With use of the AI)...
That's all they do, really, although Bolty is starting to play TvT, and has improved A LOT since he first stepped into our game.
Fred believes we cheat because he just can't fathom what we do....I offered to teach him, he thinks he knows best.
Oh well...
KT - It means, AI Are pathetic, ok? They really aren't worth the missiles or weapon energy.
Second quote.. "Your cynacism appauls me" :P
Third quote..Speak for yourself, no wait, you don't care, don't speak at all, let CP make his points.
Followin up on vyper, BOT; being the first, FS1 had an advantage, you are right there...hehe
[edit]Nice quotage Vyper, :P That song rules...[/edit]
-
Due to popular demand... :D
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Storyline wise, as I think I said earlier, I had to take FS1 apart at great lengths, and then had to expand upon that taking FS2 into account, Suprisingly enough, the group, and the teacher, prefered FS1, simply, because the story whilst simpler, is a better, and easier thing to convey, the game itself does it brilliantly, which is my point, FS2's storyline is just a mishmash of various elements, the transending plot isn't really very uhhh... hmm, can't think of the word..lol.. it doesn't keep it's focus...
You can see a student trying to explain this, "You desperately engage your after burners and try to make up the gap to the Lucifer, pushing your ship as hard as you can, getting to the node, you engage your subspace drives, and hope to hell that you can handle what's going to be on the other side, knowing you'll have no shields, knowing that there could be hundreds of fighters, vs your small taskforce of twelve fighters and bombers, you fight bravely, and strongly, to keep the enemy fighters down while your team mates go to work on the reactor subsystems, hoping you can buy them enough time to take the ship out before it gets to Sol...Earth...Home... With only a few minutes before the Lucifer reaches earth, you blow the final reactor, and break out of the subspace corridor into the Sol System, hitting your burners again you run from the blast of the Lucifer, deadly to your small ships, and so you make it home, to a hero's welcome, except you have been sealed in this small system, all alone...."
Or...Alternately...
"Messing around with the plot, more messing around, more messing around, ok, now we get to the main point"
"OH CRAP WE STOMPED ON A KILLER ANTS MOUND RUN!!!!"
"Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node, making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight), we decide because we cannot possibly hold even a candle to these ships that we will evacuate, during the evacuation, whilst you're fighting with their forces, you receive a warning from command, the Capella star has gone super nova... you have to get out, you have to leave the others, there's nothing you can do but jump....you jump as the tidal wave of gravitational, radiation, and heat passes by the point your ship had previously occupied, you make it home, losing Capella, but you have gained a possible ticket home...Earth....32 years....I wonder what she'll be like...."
My response to this would be... well... (no offence in everything that follows)... SO WHAT?
It has a lot of plot points. Interesting plot points, I might add. Sure we've seen the evil-guy-who-knows-a-lot-more-than-he-appears-to before (take president Clark in Babylon 5 for example, or Morden in the same series), but I must add, that at least for me, what he was planning was interesting. The part where Command let Bosch escape in the third mission has already been discussed, I think in another FS1 vs. FS2 thread, go read about it there. Then it has the general Knossos storyline, the Colossus and the Shivans. Let's summarize:
NTF - Bosch and his ETAK project, crushing of the NTF, Bosch escaping into nebula, Bosch going to the Shivan Theme Park (tm)
with Shivans
Knossos - Ancient portal leading to a mysterious nebula, and a possible chance to restore contact with earth.
Colossus - Big ass ship designed to counter the Lucifer, that ends the Neo-Terran front, but gets killed in the worst mission of Freespace 2 (note the '2', FS1 had worse missions) ever.
Shivans - Shivans come with a recon Sath, which we destroy, then they bring in the fleet and Destroy Capella.
Now that's not that much, now is it? I seemed to follow the story quite well on my first time through, and I didn't even have the Command Briefings then (I had a ripped FS2 back then. Bought the real one a year later). They all are closely focused (you never cut back-and-forth from NTF story to Shivans story for example, if there is the Colossus, then you have the Colossus story for 4-5 missions straight. If you have the Shivan plot line, then you have the Shivans 4-5 missions straight).
And FS1 also had a lot of plot lines (T-V war, McCarthy, Shivans, Hammer of Light, and Ancients.)
-
Alright, you asked for it... :D :D
And I see the most don't get that by talking about who's better was a side topic to determene who can judge what better...it was the part where we started talking about our experience QD and I, where everyone got insulted on how their opinion suddenly doesn't count as much as ours in the gamplay area since they can't fly as us.
No, actually your great skill is a disadvantage in some ways here, because your are making complaints about the game that make no sense. See, you are used to being exactly the ultra pilot Alpha 1 that I talked about before, taking down destroyers in seconds, and in FS1 it was actually very easy for anyone to do this. Now in FS2 they changed around things to make it slightly harder; still very easy for you, but very slightly harder so that maybe where you could take down ten destroyers in a row in FS1, you can only blow up nine in FS2, and so you find a cause to complain. However, you are losing track of the fact that this whole thing is so absurdly beyond ridiciulous from a plausibility point of view. The GTA and GTVA did not win their battles because of individual ace fighter jocks (or perhaps they did in your case, but they were not intended to by the designers); successful operations were mostly carried out by attrition, by the numbers. There are other games where this single hero sort of thing did occur (e.g. Wing Commander), but that was what set the FS series so much higher above the others; the lack of emphasis on the player made far more sense.
Besides, I can quite see that around 9 out of 10 instances where you talked of being the best players around had absolutely nothing to do with your points then or even the subject matter, but it was simply to show off. (and I have seen exactly this kind of talk many, many times from others on the VBB, so it is quite familiar to me, although I did not expect it from my own mates) I don't want to be mean here, but you should know how you are coming across to others; nobody is asking you to apologize, but just try and clean it up from here on. Actually, the best pilot I personally have seen is probably Dark/Sleeper, and the best team is by far Drak. :D (although I have not played for a long while and things may have changed now)
But you see, that's exactly it. We Don't care. Not in the slightest. If I were contending with you for 2nd place or whatever.. perhaps then.
Exactly. See, I think you guys are used to arguing with other multiplayer people; in such a community, one gets respect by being a good player. But this is largely a mod community and that is simply not the way people gain popularity and respect around here.
Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...
Actually, I didn't respond to it already because it said exactly the same stuff that had been said and countered before by others in different words and I couldn't make out half of what was being said. But I'll go ahead anyway just for the heck of it: :D
Storyline wise, as I think I said earlier, I had to take FS1 apart at great lengths, and then had to expand upon that taking FS2 into account, Suprisingly enough, the group, and the teacher, prefered FS1, simply, because the story whilst simpler, is a better, and easier thing to convey, the game itself does it brilliantly, which is my point, FS2's storyline is just a mishmash of various elements, the transending plot isn't really very uhhh... hmm, can't think of the word..lol.. it doesn't keep it's focus...
Alright, I see what you are saying here, but our point here is that each of FS2's "various elements" equalled the big one of FS1 in depth/complexity, plausibility and execution, and this is evidenced by the numerous reviews out there. It's like having several great storylines merged into one mega-story. (also, notice that FS1 had a lot more "filler missions" than FS2, which was necessary given its simpler nature)
You can see a student trying to explain this, "You desperately engage your after burners and try to make up the gap to the Lucifer, pushing your ship as hard as you can, getting to the node, you engage your subspace drives, and hope to hell that you can handle what's going to be on the other side, knowing you'll have no shields, knowing that there could be hundreds of fighters, vs your small taskforce of twelve fighters and bombers, you fight bravely, and strongly, to keep the enemy fighters down while your team mates go to work on the reactor subsystems, hoping you can buy them enough time to take the ship out before it gets to Sol...Earth...Home... With only a few minutes before the Lucifer reaches earth, you blow the final reactor, and break out of the subspace corridor into the Sol System, hitting your burners again you run from the blast of the Lucifer, deadly to your small ships, and so you make it home, to a hero's welcome, except you have been sealed in this small system, all alone...."
Sounds good, this is exactly the feeling we all got. Now look at what you wrote here:
"Messing around with the plot, more messing around, more messing around, ok, now we get to the main point"
"OH CRAP WE STOMPED ON A KILLER ANTS MOUND RUN!!!!"
so...you're saying that the Lucifer is more dangerous than 80+ Sathanas? :wtf:
"Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node, making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight)
Here is an example of where your piloting skills become detrimental; yeah, I'm sure pilots like you could beat up the juggernauts in no time flat, but it would make so little sense that the Quake story would look plausible in comparison.
we decide because we cannot possibly hold even a candle to these ships that we will evacuate, during the evacuation, whilst you're fighting with their forces, you receive a warning from command, the Capella star has gone super nova... you have to get out, you have to leave the others, there's nothing you can do but jump....you jump as the tidal wave of gravitational, radiation, and heat passes by the point your ship had previously occupied, you make it home, losing Capella, but you have gained a possible ticket home...Earth....32 years....I wonder what she'll be like...."
Now everyone should see what I mean when I say that you have simply made up your mind to not like the FS2 story. I bet that if the FS1 and FS2 plots were switched around, you would say exactly the opposite thing. This whole Capella thing is just as intense (if not more so) as the FS1 ending for the rest of us (and for every game reviewer out there). And perhaps the best part of the whole thing is, it keeps you thinking and speculating about what happens next. FS1's ending feels like a fitting conclusion, while FS2's feels like a prelude to something even greater, and most great stories have some of this. Look at the custom campaign plotlines for FS1 and compare those with the FS2; you will see a remarkable difference.
-
Rather than make any assumptions I`d like to ask a few questions first.
How often do you play singleplayer FS1 or FS2 QD/BD?
Do you play other FS2 campaigns or do you find them too easy as well?
-
Really short answer to CP for one point, might do the rest later...
Lucifer did more psychological and economical, as well as physical damage to the T-V Alliance then all the SJ's combined, true they didn't care, but that ain't the point...
Kara It's alright for making assumptions, I gave up on Single player campaigns/mods, a long time ago... think the last one I actually bothered with was Derelict, that just finished it for me...heh
BWO, I am waiting for....
Reciprocity, I'm waiting for, we shall see....
I rarely/never play the single player anymore, too many tedious missions...
That said, I don't often play FS1 anymore, however FS1 has about the same amount of good missions are FS2 does...
Point is, FS2 has more crap you have to sift through to get to them...
I would write out a list of both, but my FS1 currently, isn't working (....Think it's something to do with those upgraded textures...but I crash everytime I load it....)
Waiting for XP Corp before I can retry that one...
The two Clash of the titan missions I do enjoy, however the first is harder then the second, simply because you can't be everywhere at once, and you don't have as many wingmen, nor do you have trebs, like you do in FS2 (If you had trebs, by default, any mission is theoretically possible in FS2...)
The second I enjoy, not because it taxes me, but because it is pretty much constant and fast paced, now here's where my tastes in the two games differ, FS2, has more action, keeping you moving in a mission almost all the time (well...unless you copout like BD does :p) FS1, you have to think far more tactically in some situations, because you don't have the wealth of weaponry, etc..
CP - Name the 'filler missions' in FS1.... :wtf:
Then name the fillers in FS2... (Stealth-test counts as a filler, Tag does not count as a thriller because K3 came back...IMO.)
havin tried a few campaigns before Derelict, which were equally painful, (Actually some of derelict eg; the encompassing plot actually appealed to me...)
I am a storyline addict, that is the only reason why I would play a single player campaign, or single player game, (any game...) FS1's storyline was only ever weak before you meet the Shivan's, but even then, it had depth....you start with a briefing "...we just lost 104 pilots in a single operation..."
ehm...well...gtg, heh, typical I can't write the essay I want :p
-
remember that when QD first got FS1 he played the entire single-player campaign in INSANE mode (difficulty) by mistake, which explains why he's so awesome.
... and he is awesome.
it doesn't matter if it's "too easy for you" though... if it's fun, who cares how easy it is :nod: ;)
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node, making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight...
Well good God man! Tell GTVA Command! If they'd have known about your skillz, they could have just deployed you and BD instead of all those warships, and we might never have lost Capella! Hell, we could have ownT the nebula by now...
Dude, you wanna try play testing the alpha versions of your latest missions over and over and over and over and... it drives a geezer nuts.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Really short answer to CP for one point, might do the rest later...
Lucifer did more psychological and economical, as well as physical damage to the T-V Alliance then all the SJ's combined, true they didn't care, but that ain't the point...
Lucifer severed the contact with Earth and cost the Vasudans their home world. I agree that being a very strong psychological, economical point. As for the physical: In FS1 We lost all CONNECTIONS to a system, and two fleets (1st Terra based fleet and well all the other lost ships make up about a fleet)
The SJ fleet cost us three systems (Capella, Gamma Draconis, and the Nebula), one of them was lost... well physically the 3rd fleet, the 6th fleet (Bosch's fleet), several Vasudan Battlegroups, plus some more, according to Admiral Petrarch, the Colossus, millions of people DEAD (while the ones on Earth could still be alive), hundreds millions left homeless, quadrillions worth of resources forever. That far outweighs everything we lost in the Great War, physically, pshycologally and economically.
CP - Name the 'filler missions' in FS1.... :wtf:
Then name the fillers in FS2... (Stealth-test counts as a filler, Tag does not count as a thriller because K3 came back...IMO.)
Stealth test does NOT count, because it introduces you to the Stealth technology which you will use later in game. The same goes for many other missions which you consider fillers, but were necessary for n00bs to get acquainted to bombing, bomber intercept whatever. More examples, please.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Kara It's alright for making assumptions,
I know it's pretty informal here but I`ve never liked making comments without data. Too much of the scientist still in my personality even if I've switched to another career :)
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
Lucifer severed the contact with Earth and cost the Vasudans their home world. I agree that being a very strong psychological, economical point. As for the physical: In FS1 We lost all CONNECTIONS to a system, and two fleets (1st Terra based fleet and well all the other lost ships make up about a fleet)
The SJ fleet cost us three systems (Capella, Gamma Draconis, and the Nebula), one of them was lost... well physically the 3rd fleet, the 6th fleet (Bosch's fleet), several Vasudan Battlegroups, plus some more, according to Admiral Petrarch, the Colossus, millions of people DEAD (while the ones on Earth could still be alive), hundreds millions left homeless, quadrillions worth of resources forever. That far outweighs everything we lost in the Great War, physically, pshycologally and economically.
I wouldn`t agree with you there completely. The casualty figures for FS1 are definately higher. The vasudans lost BILLIONS when Vasuda Prime got blasted. That's far more than all of the casualties in FS2.
However I`ll agree that the psychological damage was worse. In FS1 we killed the shivan super ship. and then kicked the crap out of the rest of their capital ships. By the end of Silent Threat the GTI were a bigger threat. For all we know that could be all the shivans there were. The shivans could be a migratory species and the destruction of the Lucifer could have been the start of the end for them.
By the start of FS2 the GTVA are even cocky about their chances against the shivans. This makes their defeat by the sathanas fleet more damaging. Worse the GTVA know that shivans have some way to get into Ross 128 and other GTVA systems which means that they can invade whenever they want.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
Alright, you asked for it... :D :D
No, actually your great skill is a disadvantage in some ways here, because your are making complaints about the game that make no sense. See, you are used to being exactly the ultra pilot Alpha 1 that I talked about before, taking down destroyers in seconds, and in FS1 it was actually very easy for anyone to do this. Now in FS2 they changed around things to make it slightly harder; still very easy for you, but very slightly harder so that maybe where you could take down ten destroyers in a row in FS1, you can only blow up nine in FS2, and so you find a cause to complain. However, you are losing track of the fact that this whole thing is so absurdly beyond ridiciulous from a plausibility point of view. The GTA and GTVA did not win their battles because of individual ace fighter jocks (or perhaps they did in your case, but they were not intended to by the designers); successful operations were mostly carried out by attrition, by the numbers. There are other games where this single hero sort of thing did occur (e.g. Wing Commander), but that was what set the FS series so much higher above the others; the lack of emphasis on the player made far more sense.
So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths ;) )
Besides, I can quite see that around 9 out of 10 instances where you talked of being the best players around had absolutely nothing to do with your points then or even the subject matter, but it was simply to show off. (and I have seen exactly this kind of talk many, many times from others on the VBB, so it is quite familiar to me, although I did not expect it from my own mates) I don't want to be mean here, but you should know how you are coming across to others; nobody is asking you to apologize, but just try and clean it up from here on. Actually, the best pilot I personally have seen is probably Dark/Sleeper, and the best team is by far Drak. :D (although I have not played for a long while and things may have changed now)
a) Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem
b) I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate
c) I actually still have not played against Sleeper/Dark on an equal ground. I know I lost heavily to him on his host when my skills were still crap, and then when I perfected my skills he lost heavily a couple of times on my host, however his excuse is that I used Erinyes and tempests on my host, so it's kind of a no-win situation.
d) Drak? QD and I won Europe by ourselves, no forfiets to come to the first place, nuff said (ah but then you can always say "THE GOOD ONES LEFT")
Exactly. See, I think you guys are used to arguing with other multiplayer people; in such a community, one gets respect by being a good player. But this is largely a mod community and that is simply not the way people gain popularity and respect around here.
Not at one point was I arguing over the fact that I need respect. Don't know where you got that from.
Originally posted by karajorma
Rather than make any assumptions I`d like to ask a few questions first.
How often do you play singleplayer FS1 or FS2 QD/BD?
Do you play other FS2 campaigns or do you find them too easy as well?
Played a couple, but I mean how hard can a bunch of AI's be? Aeois Affair was good, had me goin for a while tho =)
And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention :)
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well good God man! Tell GTVA Command! If they'd have known about your skillz, they could have just deployed you and BD instead of all those warships, and we might never have lost Capella! Hell, we could have ownT the nebula by now...
Damn straight :p
-
Originally posted by BD
And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention :)
oh puhleaase!!!
Forgive me if I haven't got the names memorized, but I have played FS1 only 8 times, because (again, no offence to anyone involved), I also have a life.
McCarthy. Why. Why. Why. There was no need for McCarthy. Nothing he did ever made any importance to the rest of the campaign. He, and the entire Avenger thingy was there just because V needed another two missions. One of the worst places of FS1 ever.
The mission with the Ramses and Taranis. I was stuck on that forever, because I didn't notice the order to ignore the Taranis and completely disable and disarmed it, then hoping faithfully for something to happen. Well, yeah.
FS1 DID make better use of the red-alert event, I give you that.
Also. Boring. Capship. Battles.
There is nothing more boring than to watch two capships shoot eachother with lasers. This is why I found Clash of the Titans 1 a ridicoulusly (sp?) simple mission. Only thing I had to do was shoot down the wings of Nephilims (still the greatest bomber of FS), and the bombs. Because the damage the lasers did was marginal.
BTW, the hardest missions in both games are IMO A failure to communicate in FS1, and Argonautica in FS2. Judging by the amount of time I was stuck in these missions on my first time.
-
A Failure to Communicate has got to be one of the funnest/hardest missions in FS1... i agree with you!
-
The nebulas in FS2 are the single greatest atmosphere enhancer you can get in a space sim game.... I still love the mission where you have to escort 2 Tritons to the (?) Lysander.
-
So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths ;) )
Actually they do, since you are rarely given the sole ability to determine the outcome of a mission. And don't give me that crap about how you could do anything given the right weapons, the point is you can't save the Colossus (try it, even if you somehow pulled it off the mission simply will not end. Thus it was not established as a remote possibility by the mission designers), remain as a cover operative in the NTF, or change the final outcome of the battle of Capella. Alpha 1 simply cannot be a super hero, no matter how good you are.
Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem
But that never was a subtopic for anyone else. You are still arguing under the assumption that your skills make you an expert. And I still do not, nor will I ever, agree to that premise.
I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate
But he isn't expecting anything from you. He is appalled to find that you, a former squadmate, are such an ass. Big difference.
And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention :)
And you have expressed your opinion, which was the original point of this debate. Thank you, no further comment was ever necessary.
originally posted by aldo_14
The nebulas in FS2 are the single greatest atmosphere enhancer you can get in a space sim game.... I still love the mission where you have to escort 2 Tritons to the (?) Lysander.
It was the Warspite ;)
-
Originally posted by StratComm
It was the Warspite ;)
:nod:
-
*shows Aldo a yellow card*
-
Originally posted by StratComm
Actually they do, since you are rarely given the sole ability to determine the outcome of a mission. And don't give me that crap about how you could do anything given the right weapons, the point is you can't save the Colossus (try it, even if you somehow pulled it off the mission simply will not end. Thus it was not established as a remote possibility by the mission designers), remain as a cover operative in the NTF, or change the final outcome of the battle of Capella. Alpha 1 simply cannot be a super hero, no matter how good you are.
And I managed to do that second time...lol, not my fault the game doesn't have enough scope....
But that never was a subtopic for anyone else. You are still arguing under the assumption that your skills make you an expert. And I still do not, nor will I ever, agree to that premise.
Then why, my dear buddy Strat, was I asked by four differeny companies to Beta Test games, by name, in 98 and 99?
Skills do count, then again I suppose you need some to be able to tell, even that...
But he isn't expecting anything from you. He is appalled to find that you, a former squadmate, are such an ass. Big difference.
We're not on here on behalf of the =SSC= if we were it wouldn't be like this at all, we would have probably bent over backwards for your stupidity, but...we're not, so unlucky for some.
oh...next part....stop putting words in other peoples mouths, bakayaro....
And you have expressed your opinion, which was the original point of this debate. Thank you, no further comment was ever necessary.
This would be true, however, as I have already pointed out, our friend KT here turned it into a debate when he attacked our points, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon...so presto, we end up here.
However, we're meant to be on topic, unless it hasn't sunken in yet kiddo.
Hammer and the Anvil (Omega 1 'n' 2 vs a Typhon?)
That one has to be pretty hard...
Black Omega, and Reaching the Zenith (Yeah ok, I'm refering to multiplayer with those two..hehe...)
Clash of the titan's is very hard to do professionally, hehe, my record is 87% on that one, I mainly remember that because ND got 88...and rubbed it in for days (...this is insane :p)
Meh, My Herc mk1, that's simple enough reason for FS1 to beat FS2 any day...hehehe.... it all comes down to Oenone, and the amount of times she saved my ass....
-
All I can say from reading all this is : (http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/banghead.gif)
-
:lol: :lol: I love that guy :p always did...hehehe
-
Originally Posted by QuantumDelta
This would be true, however, as I have already pointed out, our friend KT here turned it into a debate when he attacked our points, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon...so presto, we end up here.
So which post attacked you? The remark to your egotistical, arrogant statement here?
You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...
Mission Programmers can't fly you say?
That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week. :lol:
Or the one were I informed you that you were coming across as an ass and that I Don't really care how good you are especially if you think you are the only one entitled to a valid veiw of the two games, as seen here?
:wtf:
Who do you think you are?
I Don't Care
~ How good you think you are
~ How good you are on PXO
So kindly shut up. Discuss your prefrences over each game, but don't flame or boast about how many n00bies you've beaten on PXO. Nobody cares. It only makes you look like a total jackass. Discuss the games and their aspects, but if you want to boast or flame.. you have an entire squadwar forum to spam.
-
....Lot further back then that, Nevermind, You can't exactly hurt my feelings, or 'bruise my tremendous ego' hehe..
If only you knew ^^
Seriously....OT ?? :p
-
Time to keep this thing going... :D
So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths)
Well of course they did not actually say that, but that much was rather obvious from the way the briefings were handled and the player was treated; the "hints here and there" all together are conclusive. Does command ever put up their ultimate weapon, the super jock Alpha 1, against the entire Sathanas fleet? I'm sure a pilot like you can destroy them all quite easily. And then, why is it that sm3-08 is designed so that even you, the almighty Alpha 1, is incapable of saving the Colossus? (no ending exists if the Colossus lives, so it is clear what the mission designer intended) Do you end up becoming the supreme emperor of the galaxy at the end of the game? Why do you have to take orders from some stupid admiral who you can certainly cream in a duel? Compare the FS atmosphere to that of Wing Commander games or any of the Star Wars space sims, and you will notice a drastic difference. If you don't believe me there are several game reviewers that have exactly the same interpretation, or if you like you could even get Dave here and see what he says (he lurks around here every now and then). :D
a) Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem
How people see it is indeed all that matters; the sentences carry no inherent meaning in themselves. Most people around here do indeed find your attitude a tad annoying. I personally see it this way because I have seen exactly the same thing a hundred times before on the VBB, so I have a good idea of what is intended.
b) I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate
It is my business to expect anything and everything I please out of anyone. It is your business as to whether or not to live up to that expectation. :D
Look, I spoke to you as friend there; whether you heed or ignore my advice is your problem, and I will go no further with that.
c) I actually still have not played against Sleeper/Dark on an equal ground. I know I lost heavily to him on his host when my skills were still crap, and then when I perfected my skills he lost heavily a couple of times on my host, however his excuse is that I used Erinyes and tempests on my host, so it's kind of a no-win situation.
Well, play on a standalone. :p (actually there is no point in playing TvT outside a standalone due to that host guns thing)
d) Drak? QD and I won Europe by ourselves, no forfiets to come to the first place, nuff said (ah but then you can always say "THE GOOD ONES LEFT")
Oh come on, there were a lot more SSC members than you two participating then; at least give them some credit. As for Drak, they were only around for the first set of leagues as far as I know. They were not the usual wimpy "no fish!!" types, which already places them high on my list, they did emerge as the top on one of the leagues, and perhaps most importantly, they did not rely on particular members; all of them were about equally good, and that is what made them such a solid team. And of course, they were good sports about it.
Not at one point was I arguing over the fact that I need respect. Don't know where you got that from.
Exactly, it was at ten points rather. :D That much is rather obvious, seeing from how many times you have stated that you are the best pilot around where it had no bearing whatsoever on the case. (e.g. all beams are "homo." why? 'cause I say so and I have mad skillz, you wanna settle it in a duel? :rolleyes: :D ) See, you are used to the VBB squadwar forum, where people won arguments simply by being ace pilots. I remember seeing it so many times, where after a long argument with 200 posts of flames, someone arbitrarily drops in an "let's settle this with a duel; I will beat you up so bad you'll start crying." Over there, this was enough, since the best players commanded the most respect and many people frequently took their statements for granted and sided with them simply because of this. Now you are trying to apply the same principle around here, but the community is different, and good pilots do not carry the same position that they did over there, so it is not working. Besides, do you see anyone here boasting about how they can make the best mods around? This is like my saying that I am the master on the Barnes multifactorial function here so all my arguments on the FS games are absolutely correct. :p
And I managed to do that second time...lol, not my fault the game doesn't have enough scope....
Sure, but my original statement stands that they did not intend you to do that, or else there would be a debriefing stage for those outcomes. Which goes back to the statement I said even before that being a super pilot can be problematic at times.
We're not on here on behalf of the =SSC= if we were it wouldn't be like this at all, we would have probably bent over backwards for your stupidity, but...we're not, so unlucky for some.
you know, if it gets out onto the SSC forums that you made this kind of remark, you would really be in trouble over there... :p
-
Originally posted by CP5670
Time to keep this thing going... :D
Well of course they did not actually say that, but that much was rather obvious from the way the briefings were handled and the player was treated; the "hints here and there" all together are conclusive. Does command ever put up their ultimate weapon, the super jock Alpha 1, against the entire Sathanas fleet? I'm sure a pilot like you can destroy them all quite easily. And then, why is it that sm3-08 is designed so that even you, the almighty Alpha 1, is incapable of saving the Colossus? (no ending exists if the Colossus lives, so it is clear what the mission designer intended) Do you end up becoming the supreme emperor of the galaxy at the end of the game? Why do you have to take orders from some stupid admiral who you can certainly cream in a duel? Compare the FS atmosphere to that of Wing Commander games or any of the Star Wars space sims, and you will notice a drastic difference. If you don't believe me there are several game reviewers that have exactly the same interpretation, or if you like you could even get Dave here and see what he says (he lurks around here every now and then). :D
They didn't tell you - opinion based.
It is my business to expect anything and everything I please out of anyone. It is your business as to whether or not to live up to that expectation. :D
I rest my case ;)
Well, play on a standalone. :p (actually there is no point in playing TvT outside a standalone due to that host guns thing)
[/b]
Anyone who says that has no idea what they're talking about. Oh and the sentence
Oh come on, there were a lot more SSC members than you two participating then; at least give them some credit. As for Drak, they were only around for the first set of leagues as far as I know. They were not the usual wimpy "no fish!!" types, which already places them high on my list, they did emerge as the top on one of the leagues, and perhaps most importantly, they did not rely on particular members; all of them were about equally good, and that is what made them such a solid team. And of course, they were good sports about it.
[/b]
QD and I, ALONE, under any rules, any circumstances...you're making assumptions when you don't know what you're talking about...don't do that...
Exactly, it was at ten points rather. :D That much is rather obvious, seeing from how many times you have stated that you are the best pilot around where it had no bearing whatsoever on the case. (e.g. all beams are "homo." why? 'cause I say so and I have mad skillz, you wanna settle it in a duel? :rolleyes: :D ) See, you are used to the VBB squadwar forum, where people won arguments simply by being ace pilots. I remember seeing it so many times, where after a long argument with 200 posts of flames, someone arbitrarily drops in an "let's settle this with a duel; I will beat you up so bad you'll start crying." Over there, this was enough, since the best players commanded the most respect and many people frequently took their statements for granted and sided with them simply because of this. Now you are trying to apply the same principle around here, but the community is different, and good pilots do not carry the same position that they did over there, so it is not working. Besides, do you see anyone here boasting about how they can make the best mods around? This is like my saying that I am the master on the Barnes multifactorial function here so all my arguments on the FS games are absolutely correct. :p
Hmm, you're confusing stuff. You are right, people on the vBB had a bad habit of settling their issues by fighting, and I too found that to be wrong, however you're mixing stuff, because.....we are talking about the basic essentialities of skill, and what it makes you see. Try not to use an argument that you might see fitting from the past, because most of the times it was about something else. And VBB wasn't different then any other forum, don't know how you make a difference...it was just unmodded and loosly run.
you know, if it gets out onto the SSC forums that you made this kind of remark, you would really be in trouble over there... :p
......no
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Then why, my dear buddy Strat, was I asked by four differeny companies to Beta Test games, by name, in 98 and 99?
Skills do count, then again I suppose you need some to be able to tell, even that...
Let me tell you why. Because you play well. Beta testing is used to look flaws in the GAME. Being able to play a game better than most people however, does not make you an expert in judging it's storyline and appeal to most people who do not play that well. You Beta test, so the game wouldn't come out buggy or inbalanced. You Betatest, for no means to improve the STORY. Game companies think of the average Joe. An average Joe does not save the Colossus. The averag Joe, however, notices that Sol can be accessed from multiple other places than Delta Serpentis. The greatest plot hole of FS1. FS2 had no such plot holes.
-
FS2 didn't need plot holes. The mission quality compensates for that well enough...it's well enough of a hole itself :lol:
jeez I crack myself up
oh and that reminds me
Originally posted by Stunaep
McCarthy. Why. Why. Why. There was no need for McCarthy. Nothing he did ever made any importance to the rest of the campaign. He, and the entire Avenger thingy was there just because V needed another two missions. One of the worst places of FS1 ever.
You sir need to go back to play the missions, look at the briefings, debriefings...and need to connect stuff...that was one of the more important missions in fs1 ;)
-
Originally posted by BD
FS2 didn't need plot holes. The mission quality compensates for that well enough...it's well enough of a hole itself :lol:
:mad:
:sigh:
-
Don't get me wrong, I don't think they suck, I just think it could have been done a lot better...however true, there were some outstanding missions in fs2 too...best mission of all fs1 and fs2 missions would be "Into The Lions Den" for me...it's not like I'm dissin all of them, just about 50-65% of em :p
-
You know this thread does bring back alot of memories ;)
-
Actually it was kinda a trick question stunaep, I came second in the Twix Games Player of the Year tournement finals held in london...so they all kinda jumped on me and nick (the winner) unfortunatly he was too young to betatest, then again I had exams to do, I did beta for machines (....God why me....) helped improve that a little.
And, you're only partially correct, the storyline didn't change due to the actions of the player, but that is only because of a BAD Writer, some of the campaigns that my local friends have worked on have been multi route, now that is what FS2 should have been like, is it? nooo......................
I can't see any reason why saving the collossus shouldn't be allowed apart from the fact that they're using it as a cheap piece of prop in a play that can be broken because it's the last show...
It isn't THAT easy to disarm it before it completely nukes the colossus, and sometimes the debris from it will kill the big C anyway, so I really don't see why they didn't allow it, oh yeah....cheap queues...ah...
I've noticed something, everyone on this board seems to put words in other peoples mouths...
And, CP, BD is being serious, we got to first, ALONE, Solely Him, and I, I do believe Cheetah (Fahd) played one match though...
Why? EVERYONE else gave up faith and hope in the division and left BD and I on our own cough I wonder who people like that were CP... so we went for it, and we have recruited, and we have a successful division again.
BD and I recently retired as admins, there's only two squads (...one not worth our time --- Seriously, their best pilots host, 8-2 to me before they jumped, 2v1.) on SW.com we haven't beaten (on their host) the other, DW(G) Whichever, maybe one day we'll go back and beat them too, just that the league never let us challenge them.
I love that squad, even when the others abandoned it and we proved it wasn't worthless...
We really don't need other peoples respect, there isn't that insecurity in it. Problem is, especially in an adversarial environment that absolute confidence we (well at least I :p) have in ourselves comes off as ego, being cocky, thinking we know it all, etc, al.
One thing you don't seem to realise, is that I've trained well over one half of PXO's remaining numbers, and I do know this game inside out, and I do help out with that, by testing Cetty's missions, he likes us being the lab rat because then he knows no one else on pxo is likely to exceed it, ever.
So I don't mind testing missions to find thier upper limit, admittedly, I'm not all that good at spotting errors like spelling, or continuity errors, because I gave up on the FS2 campaign, it's just too dull half the time, like i said before
FS1 75-80% good missions.
FS2 25-40% good missions.
They have about the same amount of goodies, just that...you have to sift through more crap to find them in FS2, same reason I never bothered with a playstation, sure, it's gotta big range of games, but ....it's mostly a bigger range of crap(Compared to Nintendo).
I do find it funny that you're blaiming our situation on us being 'too good' lol, interesting take considering the normal situation is 'we're not good enough' in other environments..and you called us cocky? hehehe...
If you guys ever want a campaign tested to see if the mission expectations can be exceeded then come to us, if it's possible, we'll do it, I've never asked for credit in the past, I know what I've done, helped with FZ1 and 2, and 3, my name is in the credits for 1/2 I think, because Su put it there, not because I asked...
And McCarthy did have a purpose, you still haven't met the shivan's at that point and it helped show what needed to be done to stop them, it was an OBVIOUS hint at what was gonna happen in a few missions (why did I just almost call it episodes? lol too much anime)
-
This ought to be good... :D
They didn't tell you - opinion based.
Alright, yes, they did. Ask Dave about what their intentions were if you don't believe me. :D
Hmm, you're confusing stuff. You are right, people on the vBB had a bad habit of settling their issues by fighting, and I too found that to be wrong, however you're mixing stuff, because.....we are talking about the basic essentialities of skill, and what it makes you see. Try not to use an argument that you might see fitting from the past, because most of the times it was about something else. And VBB wasn't different then any other forum, don't know how you make a difference...it was just unmodded and loosly run.
Practice what you preach about past arguments, mr. elite pilot. :D Every forum is different than every other forum because each one carries its own sort of "net culture," if you will. Nobody is talking about "basic essentialities of skill," (and there is just as much that it makes you blind to) because this topic is not about who the best player is, but which game is better and only that.
Anyone who says that has no idea what they're talking about.
yeah, why not? In fact, I almost never played TvTs outside standalones since they weren't worth playing otherwise; the host always had the highest score.
Why? EVERYONE else gave up faith and hope in the division and left BD and I on our own cough I wonder who people like that were CP... so we went for it, and we have recruited, and we have a successful division again.
I think I can see why... :p But there have been quite a few others in the FS2 division for some time now.
......no
wanna bet? ;7
We really don't need other peoples respect, there isn't that insecurity in it. Problem is, especially in an adversarial environment that absolute confidence we (well at least I ) have in ourselves comes off as ego, being cocky, thinking we know it all, etc, al.
I don't know what you need or do not need, but all people want the respect of others, and you are no exception; what matters is how you go about trying to gain that respect. Sorry, but around here good pilots are not looked upon any more favorably than newbie pilots. :D
One thing you don't seem to realise, is that I've trained well over one half of PXO's remaining numbers, and I do know this game inside out, and I do help out with that, by testing Cetty's missions, he likes us being the lab rat because then he knows no one else on pxo is likely to exceed it, ever.
oh, you do, do you? Alright, give me a list of all the warships known to be in the Deneb conflict, and tell me what ship model in the game has a bug that has a turret placed inside the model. :D
I do find it funny that you're blaiming our situation on us being 'too good' lol, interesting take considering the normal situation is 'we're not good enough' in other environments..and you called us cocky? hehehe...
Actually, you are indeed very good pilots; you just suck at everything else. :D (beams are "homo!" yaaaay.... :rolleyes: )
They have about the same amount of goodies, just that...you have to sift through more crap to find them in FS2, same reason I never bothered with a playstation, sure, it's gotta big range of games, but ....it's mostly a bigger range of crap(Compared to Nintendo).
But guess what, I say you have to sift through more crap in FS1 than FS2 to get to the "good missions", and I can prove just about every gamma function and zeta function theorem out there, so I am the master at this stuff and my word is god's word! h4w h4w h4w! ;7
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
And McCarthy did have a purpose, you still haven't met the shivan's at that point and it helped show what needed to be done to stop them, it was an OBVIOUS hint at what was gonna happen in a few missions (why did I just almost call it episodes? lol too much anime)
Not to mention
a) first testing of the Valkyrie interceptor pitting them against a standard issue fighter (not a god forsaken 30 year old bomber like it was in fs2)
b) retrieving something that was going to hurt the shivans, showing command knew and was doing something to prep themselves against the shivans (later on when you encounter them it's just a formality)
c) "I answer to a higher authority"...makes you wonder about stuff...well made me wonder about stuff...
d) not to mention that the mission was one of the better ones, disabling the omega and the rasputin, good targets for a first time disabling practice.....not too big not too small...
oh well
-
...Typo'd do for don't =PPP
I don't need to know the story line back to front, personally, I wouldn't care much if I had to, crap, what the hell use to I have in knowing a pointless fact like that? Ever tried reality? :rolleyes:
lol, CP, you're really proving how ignorant you are everytime you comment on the SSC, you don't know ANYTHING that went on down there, considering you were there sooooo much, I handled all those situations, damnit, BD, and Fahd, helping me, and quiz giving commentary/advice apart from when Stang and JaG came back to reclaim SSC-BW... that's about it.
The others, they've been recruited and come up through the membership quite well, the three admins at current were all recruited only recently, and have grown into greats pilots, they're good people too.
Maybe you should go back and read the FS forum, CP, maybe after you've covered the last, god knows how long you've been away you'd realise we're not just chatting crap, you don't know anything.
Your perception that we're too good is a bit bloody stupid too.
How can a person be too good?
I was still pushing myself when we retired as admins, and I still push myself and still expect more from myself when I get ingame, if it ain't 100% perfect, it ain't good enough. even then it could be better =PPP
If you're telling me games are for those who have no talent at playing them, I think you would need to check again, games are normally classed as competative, being that way, being bad at it, or ok, at it, is not competative, jeez, I couldn't stand around watching something die, or a team lose, or whatever, just because I wasn't giving enough to save it...
Host does not always have the highest score, admittedly, it is slightly easier for the host to win because they're shooting at live targets, however, This is mainly only because your average pilot doesn't understand 'lag' they don't compensate for it, and complain about 'ghost guns' or 'guns which don't work' unless your ping is over 300, you should never have a problem if it's over 400 then it's beyond the SW rules.. BD and I went through just about everyone on their host, Team config, or, 1on1 BD should have just dark left. This includes certain ultra lag hosts (aussie with bad hosts? or just bad linkage to us) the old vets on their hosts mashed 11-2 or better, what, we can't do much more to prove host adv is a losers way out of it if you lost, you lost.
there's another thing, I was close to equal to sleeper over a year ago, when he took me aside and showed me a few things, I readjusted my training and know that I'm better then he was then, now.
Skills DO Give better insights into playability, although you do need to test the lower levels for beginners, Most Fred Zone testing is done on Hard or Above in order to test all the functions work, if something breaks, it's noted, and checked on the lighter levels, it's faster, and more efficient.
But my main point is, until you know, either from me, BD, or the boards, what happened about the =SSC= and about PXO in the last hmm, 10-16months, shut up, you're making pathetic assumptions without enough knowledge to do so.
I could still do with that list of filler missions on FS1, CP. =P
-
I don't need to know the story line back to front, personally, I wouldn't care much if I had to, crap, what the hell use to I have in knowing a pointless fact like that? Ever tried reality?
In other words, your assertion that you "know the game inside out" is false. :D This has nothing to do with the pointlessness of the fact, and you are only bringing up that issue to mask your previous statement.
lol, CP, you're really proving how ignorant you are everytime you comment on the SSC, you don't know ANYTHING that went on down there, considering you were there sooooo much, I handled all those situations, damnit, BD, and Fahd, helping me, and quiz giving commentary/advice apart from when Stang and JaG came back to reclaim SSC-BW... that's about it.
The others, they've been recruited and come up through the membership quite well, the three admins at current were all recruited only recently, and have grown into greats pilots, they're good people too.
Maybe you should go back and read the FS forum, CP, maybe after you've covered the last, god knows how long you've been away you'd realise we're not just chatting crap, you don't know anything.
That's what I am saying; there are quite a few more people around than just the two of you. I don't have time to read the whole thing right now, but here is what I observed: when I sort of became inactive, the division was a bit on the dead side, but there were still four or five people playing. When I returned, there were ten or so, and so things seem to have come back up. It is possible that you are completely right, but given your boasting in this thread, it is equally possible that it actually did not turn out that way. :p
Your perception that we're too good is a bit bloody stupid too.
How can a person be too good?
Where did I say that? In fact, I said that you are not good enough, because you don't know about story plausibility. Learn to read. :D
I was still pushing myself when we retired as admins, and I still push myself and still expect more from myself when I get ingame, if it ain't 100% perfect, it ain't good enough. even then it could be better =PPP
how can it be better if it's perfect? I have no clue what you are saying here. :p
If you're telling me games are for those who have no talent at playing them, I think you would need to check again, games are normally classed as competative, being that way, being bad at it, or ok, at it, is not competative, jeez, I couldn't stand around watching something die, or a team lose, or whatever, just because I wasn't giving enough to save it...
Once, again, show where I said that. This is simply not a discussion on talent; it is a comparison between games, and thus nobody cares about skills here.
Host does not always have the highest score, admittedly, it is slightly easier for the host to win because they're shooting at live targets, however, BD and I went through just about everyone on their host, Team config, or, 1on1 BD should have just dark left.
slightly? I could almost always get double the kills when I was hosting since the primaries actually worked correctly.
there's another thing, I was close to equal to sleeper over a year ago, when he took me aside and showed me a few things, I readjusted my training and know that I'm better then he was then, now.
Perhaps you are. Like I said, my observations were taken over a year ago.
Skills DO Give better insights into playability, although you do need to test the lower levels for beginners, Most Fred Zone testing is done on Hard or Above in order to test all the functions work, if something breaks, it's noted, and checked on the lighter levels, it's faster, and more efficient.
Yes, and the results of these "better insights" are such far-reaching conclusions as "beams are homo." :D
They do not give any insights that are relevant to the comparison of two games, which is the subject matter here. Relevant to the comparison of certain ships/weapons/etc., sure, but not the games themselves.
But my main point is, until you know, either from me, BD, or the boards, what happened about the =SSC= and about PXO in the last hmm, 10-16months, shut up, you're making pathetic assumptions without enough knowledge to do so.
See earlier reply. From my point of view, both alternatives are equally possible.
I could still do with that list of filler missions on FS1, CP. =P
These are the clear-cut fillers; there are a number of others which are debatable, but here are those I can think of:
sm1-02a.fsm
sm1-08a.fsm
sm2-01a.fsm
sm2-02a.fsm
sm2-03a.fsm
sm2-04a.fsm
sm2-08a.fsm
That is not to say that filler missions are bad - quite the contrary, in terms of gameplay, they are sometimes superior to the story advancement missions - but FS2 was able to merge the two types together into single missions much better than FS1. (FS1 had more missions that clearly lie in either category, while most FS2 missions had some of both)
-
Originally posted by CP5670
One thing you don't seem to realise, is that I've trained well over one half of PXO's remaining numbers, and I do know this game inside out, and I do help out with that, by testing Cetty's missions, he likes us being the lab rat because then he knows no one else on pxo is likely to exceed it, ever.
So, why do you suggest that Fredders and modders who have designed several campaigns, lodded several ships do NOT know both games inside out? I can name the hitpoints of most FS2 ships by heart. Because I need to know that when I fred.
-
Originally posted by BD
Not to mention
a) first testing of the Valkyrie interceptor pitting them against a standard issue fighter (not a god forsaken 30 year old bomber like it was in fs2)
b) retrieving something that was going to hurt the shivans, showing command knew and was doing something to prep themselves against the shivans (later on when you encounter them it's just a formality)
c) "I answer to a higher authority"...makes you wonder about stuff...well made me wonder about stuff...
d) not to mention that the mission was one of the better ones, disabling the omega and the rasputin, good targets for a first time disabling practice.....not too big not too small...
oh well
and you call the stealth mission a filler :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by BD
c) "I answer to a higher authority"...makes you wonder about stuff...well made me wonder about stuff...
And yet you never wondered at what Bosch was up to? Why Command let him escape? Why the shivans didn`t sortie a second lucifer or why the sathanas fleet choose to destroy Capella straight away instead of wiping out the GTVA first and then going back and doing it?
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Your perception that we're too good is a bit bloody stupid too.
How can a person be too good?
Quite simply. You've admitted yourself that you've played multiplayer so much that singleplayer is no longer a challenge. While that is fine if all you want to ever do is play multiplayer it is a drawback if you ever want to play any of the campaigns that the teams here on HLP are working on. If the missions are no challenge why play them? It's evident you feel that way considering that you`ve tried so few campaigns.
I guess there is a price to be paid for being the best and in my opinion its one I wouldn`t be willing to pay.
However it's apparent you enjoy sticking to multiplayer so it isn`t a problem for you.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
In other words, your assertion that you "know the game inside out" is false. :D This has nothing to do with the pointlessness of the fact, and you are only bringing up that issue to mask your previous statement.
I said I typo'd damnit, wake up.
That's what I am saying; there are quite a few more people around than just the two of you. I don't have time to read the whole thing right now, but here is what I observed: when I sort of became inactive, the division was a bit on the dead side, but there were still four or five people playing. When I returned, there were ten or so, and so things seem to have come back up. It is possible that you are completely right, but given your boasting in this thread, it is equally possible that it actually did not turn out that way. :p
In the European league, up until BD and I retired, the only two people who had flown matchs, apart from Fahd were BD and I.
We were in there to recover the locked nodes, and matchs, we did that, that was our only objective, along the way, we played, and beat, everyone.
Where did I say that? In fact, I said that you are not good enough, because you don't know about story plausibility. Learn to read. :D
I do, point is kiddo, the story isn't interactive enough considering the stunts we pull of CAN BE DONE, Therefore, they lack the plausibility to cater for the needs of those better then your own, just because you're alright in your little bubble, doesn't mean the programmers shouldn't find ways to do better for those with greater talents.
how can it be better if it's perfect? I have no clue what you are saying here. :p
I was refering to the human condition.
Not science.
Once, again, show where I said that. This is simply not a discussion on talent; it is a comparison between games, and thus nobody cares about skills here.
Talent was brought into it when people said 'the missiles don't work...uh buh buh...' and 'primaries are useless..wahhhh' for the two games, this is because THEY do NOT know how to use them properly, more fool you if you believe it's any different. This is why Skill matters.
slightly? I could almost always get double the kills when I was hosting since the primaries actually worked correctly.
There is VERY LITTLE difference between the way bd or I play on or off our hosts, apart from on our hosts (me especially) we're a little more lazy. This comment PROVES You really don't know how to play the multi, ok? Hush now.
Perhaps you are. Like I said, my observations were taken over a year ago.
I could write for hours on this comment, we developed a skill scale, in PXO, to help assist in our training, we eventually had to re-write it completely, when we discovered that there is a whole new level above the 'previous aces', such that, the top skill level of dark/sleeper are about 1/5 of what ours are/were, and I'm simply guessing at that figure (generously for dark..)
Yes, and the results of these "better insights" are such far-reaching conclusions as "beams are homo." :D
Would you prefer a full blown essay on how most beams are not dodgable by the skill of the player, which is what makes them completely against the concept of gaming in a nutshell, THIS ISNT A FILM, it's a game. I wouldn't mind so much if the first beam was unavoidable but the rest not, the others are simply reliant on tbl values and that is pathetic.
They do not give any insights that are relevant to the comparison of two games, which is the subject matter here. Relevant to the comparison of certain ships/weapons/etc., sure, but not the games themselves.
What do you think a game is?
Besides, I think BD and I ORIGINALLY Began discussing the STORYLINE, not the ships/weapons, that was brought on as a defence of the FS2 side of the (well I would call it a debate but one side is being over aggressive and the other being stupid, the middle ground being the only one not looking like an idiot for various reasons) argument...
These are the clear-cut fillers; there are a number of others which are debatable, but here are those I can think of:
sm1-02a.fsm
sm1-08a.fsm
sm2-01a.fsm
sm2-02a.fsm
sm2-03a.fsm
sm2-04a.fsm
sm2-08a.fsm
NAMES?!
I ain't lookin that up.
resists the get a life commentary...even more then throughout the rest of the last couple of posts...
That is not to say that filler missions are bad - quite the contrary, in terms of gameplay, they are sometimes superior to the story advancement missions - but FS2 was able to merge the two types together into single missions much better than FS1. (FS1 had more missions that clearly lie in either category, while most FS2 missions had some of both) [/B]
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, Merge'em ehh? and bring out stuff like Stealth...lol, oh dear, tag test too...lol
I called stealth a filler because there is no real point to it in my mind, admittedly it intro's stealth but gyah, you know, it'd be better if it wasn't so boring, there's two main tactics open there, A) Follow'em around and shoot'em up, or B) Camp by the ship 'n' use MS... lol, anyone managed to keep the cruiser alive for a while?
Kara, you could make the campaigns have extra routes like FS2 should have and then make the success of one mission lead to a harder one, that would be nice :p
I have debated the reasons for the supernova before.....
on the VBB, maybe on here, and in person, I also wrote the start of a campaign on it, would be a damn good one, even for those 'elite pilots' because it's meant to be damn tough, and it's an engaging storyline, the biggest problem with it, was that I adapted it from a fanfic I wrote about FS1 a VERY long time ago, so it's very much based on the super duper alpha one thing you think is poor :p (although 'alpha one' is now a wing of four super elite wingmen controlled by ai and with survival thingy's in their SEXP's, the other problem was it was meant to be an end of freespace... the whole ending meaning the death of the shivans, could easily come in after BWO...
Stun - knowing Hitpoints is fine, but what the heck is that gonna do for you if you're against someone in a mk1 who could kill your Seraphim or whatever you wanted to be in that was insanely powerful compared to theirs?
-
What did you boldface your whole post for? :p
I said I typo'd damnit, wake up.
Oh that's what you were talking about. You did not quote anything above it, so it looked like you were referring to that post. :p
In the European league, up until BD and I retired, the only two people who had flown matchs, apart from Fahd were BD and I. We were in there to recover the locked nodes, and matchs, we did that, that was our only objective, along the way, we played, and beat, everyone.
I see, but then you have a third player there. I remember seeing one or two others before as well; did they play at all?
I do, point is kiddo, the story isn't interactive enough considering the stunts we pull of CAN BE DONE, Therefore, they lack the plausibility to cater for the needs of those better then your own, just because you're alright in your little bubble, doesn't mean the programmers shouldn't find ways to do better for those with greater talents.
So? You can do things like this in FS1 also (e.g. Ramses mission), things that the designers did not anticipate. Both games have this problem in some missions. Not much point in using arguments that work equally well against you, eh? :D
I was refering to the human condition.
Not science.
Actually, the human condition is science, but it doesn't matter here; you cannot be better than perfect by definition. :D
Talent was brought into it when people said 'the missiles don't work...uh buh buh...' and 'primaries are useless..wahhhh' for the two games, this is because THEY do NOT know how to use them properly, more fool you if you believe it's any different. This is why Skill matters.
Well, I cannot quite remember anyone saying that, but at least I never complained about it. Each game has weapons suited to the technology of its era so that they are relatively balanced.
There is VERY LITTLE difference between the way bd or I play on or off our hosts, apart from on our hosts (me especially) we're a little more lazy. This comment PROVES You really don't know how to play the multi, ok? Hush now.
I could just as easily say the opposite thing, given the evidence so far; this comment PROVES you really don't know how to play the multi, okay? Hush now. :D I have had this experience a number of times, and I know others have as well; do you remember how many and how much people were complaining about host guns on the VBB for its first two or so years of existence?
Actually, it really depends on the ping to other players. It is not really a problem if it is consistently around 200, but most of the games I have played are the 1000+ type. :p
I could write for hours on this comment, we developed a skill scale, in PXO, to help assist in our training, we eventually had to re-write it completely, when we discovered that there is a whole new level above the 'previous aces', such that, the top skill level of dark/sleeper are about 1/5 of what ours are/were, and I'm simply guessing at that figure (generously for dark..)
Alright, good for you. :D
Would you prefer a full blown essay on how most beams are not dodgable by the skill of the player, which is what makes them completely against the concept of gaming in a nutshell, THIS ISNT A FILM, it's a game. I wouldn't mind so much if the first beam was unavoidable but the rest not, the others are simply reliant on tbl values and that is pathetic.
What's the big deal there; it's not like they cause that much of a problem. Much better than having the ships nearly defenseless with their little terran turrets, at any rate. Also, by beams, we are talking about all beams, including anti-capital beams. Those are primarily what are so impressive.
What do you think a game is?
A game. :D
Besides, I think BD and I ORIGINALLY Began discussing the STORYLINE, not the ships/weapons, that was brought on as a defence of the FS2 side of the (well I would call it a debate but one side is being over aggressive and the other being stupid, the middle ground being the only one not looking like an idiot for various reasons) argument...
Exactly, so let's keep it to the story, shall we?
NAMES?!
I ain't lookin that up.
resists the get a life commentary...even more then throughout the rest of the last couple of posts...
I find the numbers much easier to remember, but here you go:
sm1-02a.fsm: The Field of Battle
sm1-08a.fsm: The Hammer and the Anvil
sm2-01a.fsm: The Aftermath
sm2-02a.fsm: The Big Bang
sm2-03a.fsm: La Ruota della Fortuna
sm2-04a.fsm: Where Eagles Dare
sm2-06a.fsm: Shell Game
And I wouldn't be talking about getting a life; I am not the one who spends all day practicing on getting mad skillz on PXO. Face it, we both have no life, and I for one am proud of it. :D
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, Merge'em ehh? and bring out stuff like Stealth...lol, oh dear, tag test too...lol
so this is how our elite pilot argues; very impressive... :D
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Kara, you could make the campaigns have extra routes like FS2 should have and then make the success of one mission lead to a harder one, that would be nice :p
Easy to say. MUCH harder to do. My own campaign started off multi-threaded but once I appreciated how much extra work it was I decided not to bother much (there are a couple of threads) but it wasn`t worth making tonnes of extra missions especially considering that unlike wing commander you don`t have the option to roll back to an earlier point in a campaign and replay missions so a lot of people wouldn`t see my extra work.
-
only need three or even two real different routes, screw the smaller details...hehe, I don't expect perfection, after all it is a game, however it would be nice for it to be a little influenced by the player, especially in something big like the Colossus...
The campaign for SSC in Euro was mainly to unlock nodes, it was precarious, and we had to win everything, I checked, Fahd played two matchs, both vs MC, one 3v3, and one he played with BD 2v2...
....I uhh....boldfaced it cuz uhh... it's boldy thing in the quote...I just clicked 'qoute post' wrote a lot of [quote ] [ /quote]'s and didn't notice the [b ] ;p
....Yeah....The Ramses mission annoys me to heck...
I'll look up the mission list (now I have the game names) in the strat guide when i get outta pxo (alt-tabby hehe)...
That strat guide is useless too, man it even gives out worse advice then newbie mistakes at points...lol... (FS1, ain't seen the FS2 one...for obvious reasons, didn't bother..)
I look at the human condition as philosophy...not really science, but the two mix...hehe...
about the cap beams, I can see that caps need defending, but, there's a famous quote from tribes that could apply here ..And yeah, it's always in caps...
BASES AREN'T DEFENDED BY MINES YOU IDIOT THEY'RE DEFENDED BY PEOPLE AND TURRETS
In FS that'd translate to 'They're not defended by turrets, but by fighters', at least I think so, but I'm an old skool FS1 pilot, we HAD to defend them back then...heh, it was an actual job...
I remember, all the complaints about host eri's and such, I was actually one of the people who complained, I tried to form an informal alliancy sort of thing for DSA to stop using Eri host if no one else uses it, they disagreed, cough.
Now, in the present, skill has gone far enough up that you can automatically adjust for pings --- providing they are stable, and they are not 300 plus (although it's about 250 plus for me..).
...For some reason (I mean, apart from the fact that it gives one of my friends motion sickness, it makes my pc lag and stutter, and it's buggy/crashy occasionally) nebula's annoy me...
all the testing missions were done in nebula's, with the weapons and ships I would never choose to use in my entire career, especially if my life depended on it...
And...I do have a life, or some form of it, apart from playing FS, which would take up a good chunk of time, but you can ask around, I'm hardly there anymore, I'm in University, if I'm not in university, I'm around a friends, or down town with a group of friends, I just let my 'time management' flow, I don't really plan...whatever happens happens..like err...most of my approaches to life...and fs too...my fighting is like water, it just flows O.o
-
BD, could you define "stuff"? It's a recurring theme in your posts...and I'm curious what you mean when you say "you don't know stuff" and "makes me think about stuff."
only need three or even two real different routes, screw the smaller details...hehe, I don't expect perfection, after all it is a game, however it would be nice for it to be a little influenced by the player, especially in something big like the Colossus...
Demanding that the campaign writers make branching campaigns with several trees proves you know nothing about mission creation. Derelict for example would end up being hundreds of missions, as well as any of the 30+ mission campaigns. As if they don't take long enough!!
Furthermore, why would :V: build in a whole extra mission, or even pay Loggia for another clip of speech, for the dozen or so players who can save the Colossus!? When the game's going to get played by tens of thousands of people, its stupid and foolhardy to add in extras for perhaps the 20 that could possibly accomplish that stunt.
And what does this have to do with FS1 vs FS2, anyway? FS1 didn't have a branching storyline either...so...what's your point?
Finally...multiplayer. Congratulations, QD and BD, you are MP gods. Fantastic. What does this have to do with comparing FS1 and FS2? Oh, nothing, that's right. You think because you're good pilots, you are somehow more capable of judging story, model and texture quality, voice acting, new additions to the gameplay (beams, flak, missiles that don't track by following the target, etc.), and mission design (funny, since you're saying you know more about good mission design than mission designers).
Why do nebulas annoy you? If anything they should provide somewhat of a greater challenge (maybe not to you, oh grand-master of Freespace piloting, but to the masses buying the game, yeah). I've never had a nebula-caused crash...or encountered a bug anywhere in a nebula mission...get a better computer :P
All this bickering over the SSC has absolutely nothing to do with FS1 vs. FS2
:wtf:
-
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/dude-owned.jpg)
been looking for an excuse to use that... :D
-
(http://icestar.hypermart.net/quantumdelta/Idiots.jpg)
My graphical aid.
Ruri from Nadesico...
Incredibly intelligent pre-teen...hehe.
Audio Aid! (http://icestar.hypermart.net/quantumdelta/baka.wav)
You can't get owned by fools, and those who make defencive points that hold no ground other then that of 'laziness' or 'complaicence'.
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/dude-owned.jpg)
been looking for an excuse to use that... :D
Yeah I have one for graphical aid here (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/col/files/image_deserveseizure.gif) too
-
wow thats bright...
col? Which project is that?
-
If you mean mine...it was called Jenova... never announced, and now permanently on the back burner until I get time...
Which will be summer....heh
If you mean kara...dunno, we'll see O.o
-
uh, the one BD used.. I guess he's on your team.
So you have a quiet campaign. Does that mean you are a mission designer or what?
-
...Technically, I mainly only design missions for training purposes, however I couldn't resist having 'one great project' heh...
There's two main tasters of my work still remaining, Jenova the beginning, which is affectively a convoy escort, (...convoy of four desties :p)
that's FS2..
And there was a mission I made for FS1 called Jenova, which is probably my best work...
still got it somewhere...if not bd should do...
-
well thats cool.
I'm just going to use this post to point out mission designers can't fly..
:rolleyes:
-
The campaign for SSC in Euro was mainly to unlock nodes, it was precarious, and we had to win everything, I checked, Fahd played two matchs, both vs MC, one 3v3, and one he played with BD 2v2...
I thought the process of unlocking nodes just involves giving away your nodes though? (a "locked" node is one where the controlling squad has more or less disappeared and nobody can get the node I think; could be wrong here since it has been years since I played squadwar :p) Or did they reset the maps again at some point?
....I uhh....boldfaced it cuz uhh... it's boldy thing in the quote...I just clicked 'qoute post' wrote a lot of [quote ] [ /quote]'s and didn't notice the [b ] ;p
oh okay :D
....Yeah....The Ramses mission annoys me to heck...
I'll look up the mission list (now I have the game names) in the strat guide when i get outta pxo (alt-tabby hehe)...
That strat guide is useless too, man it even gives out worse advice then newbie mistakes at points...lol... (FS1, ain't seen the FS2 one...for obvious reasons, didn't bother..)
hehe, I know what you mean about these guides out there. I don't have the FS1 one but got the FS2 one just for fun reading; I was pretty much expecting that it would not exactly have the best strategies... :p
Like I said earlier, these missions are not bad at all (very good in fact), but they don't do anything to advance the plot. In contrast, there are also FS1 missions that are no good gameplay-wise but are essential to the story. This is one thing that game reviewers praised a lot with FS2; the story and the gameplay were integrated and intertwined together in a way that no game had done before.
I look at the human condition as philosophy...not really science, but the two mix...hehe...
for me that's kind of the same thing; hey, physics was called natural philosophy... :D
about the cap beams, I can see that caps need defending, but, there's a famous quote from tribes that could apply here ..And yeah, it's always in caps...
In FS that'd translate to 'They're not defended by turrets, but by fighters', at least I think so, but I'm an old skool FS1 pilot, we HAD to defend them back then...heh, it was an actual job...
Yes, but it also became quite a hinderance, an implausible hinderance that made no sense. Remember the mission sm2-05.fsm (Tenderizer) with the Galatea for example? One would expect that when it jumps in, everyone would be relieved that this massive destroyer is on the scene to assist. Instead, your mission becomes five times harder, since you now have to defend it from swarms of HOL suicide bombers and it is not helping in any way (just providing a big target for the enemy). It cannot launch big swarms of fighters due to the game engine restrictions either.
Actually, this was another thing that all FS2 reviews marked as a very big plus point. The capital ships did not simply look imposing as they did in other games, but they lived up to the expectations set by their appearance; in other words, they could actually do something other than launch fighters and were no longer just big, expensive cannon fodder for fighters.
hey if you just want it really hard you could try making a mission where you defend a cargo container from huge onslaughts... :D
I remember, all the complaints about host eri's and such, I was actually one of the people who complained, I tried to form an informal alliancy sort of thing for DSA to stop using Eri host if no one else uses it, they disagreed, cough.
Now, in the present, skill has gone far enough up that you can automatically adjust for pings --- providing they are stable, and they are not 300 plus (although it's about 250 plus for me..).
I am sort of used to the 1000+ ping games, actually. :D But even in the low ping games, you need to learn to never fire directly at the ship's lead indicator as in singleplayer but rather somewhat on the side of it. (this is quite a problem in low-ping <100ms games as well)
I was much more into FS2 in my 56k days but more or less sticked to co-op games only and also being a bomber only in those due to these lag/host-gun issues; I did not start playing TvT a lot until I got a better connection. The lag issues that were a small inconvience in co-op were absolutely fatal in TvT.
Either that, or they did something to the servers, because I clearly remember a distinct point where PXO had a particularly long server downtime (couple of days), but after which almost all the host-gun complaints stopped. I also noticed quite a difference myself; although it was nowhere near perfect or even satisfactory, it was ten times better than before.
And...I do have a life, or some form of it, apart from playing FS, which would take up a good chunk of time, but you can ask around, I'm hardly there anymore, I'm in University, if I'm not in university, I'm around a friends, or down town with a group of friends, I just let my 'time management' flow, I don't really plan...whatever happens happens..like err...most of my approaches to life...and fs too...my fighting is like water, it just flows O.o
I have a life outside FS too, but it consists entirely of other games, math and legos. :D
As for the multi-threading campaigns, it sounds nice in theory but the reason why there are really no true dynamic campaigns out there is that making such a campaign would take an insanely long amount of time. Already the campaign construction process is extremely long, and this would just multiply into it a couple of times and make things completely unbearable. Also, as has been remarked, many people only play through the campaign a couple of times, so they might not see the alternate branches at all, and even if they did they would have to replay all the missions that are common to both branches. (if you make it so that there are almost no common missions, then you might as well make two seperate campaigns in the same time)
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
and you call the stealth mission a filler :rolleyes:
Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.
Originally posted by Shiva Archon
BD, could you define "stuff"? It's a recurring theme in your posts...and I'm curious what you mean when you say "you don't know stuff" and "makes me think about stuff."
Why don't you learn about it yourself? I did...don't worry it'll come to you when you play the thing over and over and over like I have, I've been at this for 5 years...
Originally posted by CP5670
I thought the process of unlocking nodes just involves giving away your nodes though? (a "locked" node is one where the controlling squad has more or less disappeared and nobody can get the node I think; could be wrong here since it has been years since I played squadwar :p) Or did they reset the maps again at some point?
Okay CP, now I'll draw it to you, just to get you fully back on topic.
(http://icestar.hypermart.net/blackdove/chronoorder.jpg)
Is that clear?
-
Yes, yes, QD already explained all that. An impressive feat certainly, but as Shivan Archon said, completely irrelevant to this argument, and one that does not excuse you from providing supports to your points. :p
Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.
Look at it this way and compare it to your description:
a) first testing of the Valkyrie interceptor pitting them against a standard issue fighter (not a god forsaken 30 year old bomber like it was in fs2)
a) first test of the Pegasus stealth fighter
d) not to mention that the mission was one of the better ones, disabling the omega and the rasputin, good targets for a first time disabling practice.....not too big not too small...
b) good practice at disabling a somewhat large ship (Tiamat)
c) good practice at defending a friendly destroyer from bomber waves; this was the first mission in the game where you really had to worry about enemy bombers a lot more than before
Here is yet another instance of it; you have simply made up your mind to like FS1 and not to like FS2 no matter what.
-
Originally posted by BD
Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.
bleh.. CP just explained that... forget I ever posted.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
Yes, yes, QD already explained all that. An impressive feat certainly, but as Shivan Archon said, completely irrelevant to this argument, and one that does not excuse you from providing supports to your points. :p
Look at it this way and compare it to your description:
a) first test of the Pegasus stealth fighter
b) good practice at disabling a somewhat large ship (Tiamat)
c) good practice at defending a friendly destroyer from bomber waves; this was the first mission in the game where you really had to worry about enemy bombers a lot more than before
Here is yet another instance of it; you have simply made up your mind to like FS1 and not to like FS2 no matter what.
Of course I made up my mind that FS1 is better. I don't see how that's your argument, it IS better than FS2 in my opinion, so...what's the point of your argument?
However one thing you missed. While the Alexander mission was a crucial part of the story, what with the avenger you use constantly afterwards (and some hidden stuff), the stealth test mission was just one random gimmick designed to make you occupied (and of course the protect mission was repeated again afterwards just before you join the lions, kind of to be another filler mission). As much to my recollection, I used the Valkyrie a lot in fs2, never touched the Pegasus after that test. Hell I didn't even fly IT in the test. It's like the thing never existed. When was stealth good? When you went to scan the juggernaught, wowee, where have I seen THAT before? At least in fs1 it was a challenge, the copy of it in fs2 was just blah...
And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...
-
Originally posted by BD
And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...
AFAIK, the fact that the Tiamat has to be in your sensor range makes no difference whatsoever. I'd like some coders to confirm that, but I don't see anyway this could matter.
-
Yeah it gotta be in your sensors range to make sure Acquitain can shoot at it with the beams, nevermind eh?
-
oh just a sidenote, on your sig, it's "pits" and you're missing a t from againt Peanuts, oh and I like the liebermans law quote you have :)
-
oh yes, another plus point for the Stealth mission:
First encounter with a Moloch class corvette.
plus, I just checked the mission events: There are no events that indicate that the Aquitaine will fire on the Moloch only, if the warship is visible on the players radar. Which concludes with what I've see (or heard to be more specific, namely the beams of the Aquitaine firing, even if I can't target the Tiamat). If there is such a requirement then it has to be in the code.
Saw some very well built events back in that mission. I can't understand though, why :v: preferred chaining events instead of using send-message-list though.
-
Originally posted by CP5670
sm1-02a.fsm: The Field of Battle
sm1-08a.fsm: The Hammer and the Anvil
sm2-01a.fsm: The Aftermath
sm2-02a.fsm: The Big Bang
sm2-03a.fsm: La Ruota della Fortuna
sm2-04a.fsm: Where Eagles Dare
sm2-06a.fsm: Shell Game
No argument on the field of battle, it does somewhat raise assault skills, but that's all.
The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....
The Aftermath
This is debatable... I believe it's there to hammer home the Tombaugh station's loss, does pretty good job too IMHO... heh, fighters chattering, a delicate and huge convoy that needs to defend. I also think it's the first one you're almost fully incharge of stuff (....That winds me up to no end, AI dying because I can't order them....).
The Big Bang introduces red alerts, also you're defending the Tsunami project, which, dunno about you, but I use rather a lot later on, nuts to harbinger... (apart from for luci), admittedly, it's not desperately plot important, but it helps, most of the techs come out of no where, especially in FS2.
Fortuna a filler?
Read the command briefing before it, wont be so filler...
The fact that it's infested with shivan's makes you wonder, considering previously, and throughout the rest of the campaign they seem to very very losely work together.
Where Eagles Dare - Same as Fortuna, read the command briefing.
Shell game?
Well, I could put up no arguement, I mean, it's not exactly the most prophetic mission in the game, however there's something about the Eva just having engaged it's subspace drives as you get there that makes me wanna say it's there to increase player tension or something similar, considering it teases you in a 'can't touch this' style...
Strange about the mission, considering I keep thinking how bloody useless the Acquitain is while I'm flying it, the amount of times my RL Friends came and asked how you pass it...
In the end they realised you needed to be in sensor range for it to do the damage -- either that or the English version is different (dunno what version BD actually has...)
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
oh yes, another plus point for the Stealth mission:
First encounter with a Moloch class corvette.
Yep you're right, and another minus point is how lame it was done ;)
At least when they presented the Rakshasa they showed it taking Erikson to pieces, the thing was able to do something :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
No argument on the field of battle, it does somewhat raise assault skills, but that's all.
The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....
Not to mention the "hidden" message in it. Even if I'm looking into it too much, it's still funny :D
-
Ah, nothing like a good argument to start off the day! :D
Of course I made up my mind that FS1 is better. I don't see how that's your argument, it IS better than FS2 in my opinion, so...what's the point of your argument?
That's exactly the problem, and it causes you to be irrationally biased. Look at your arguments in support of sm2-04a.fs1 and compare it with those against sm2-03.fs2. You are frequently holding exactly the same thing against an FS2 mission which you praised for an FS1 mission. I bet if the missions were exactly the same but only the games were switched around, you would suddenly start saying great things about that mission just because it in FS1. :p
However one thing you missed. While the Alexander mission was a crucial part of the story, what with the avenger you use constantly afterwards (and some hidden stuff), the stealth test mission was just one random gimmick designed to make you occupied (and of course the protect mission was repeated again afterwards just before you join the lions, kind of to be another filler mission). As much to my recollection, I used the Valkyrie a lot in fs2, never touched the Pegasus after that test. Hell I didn't even fly IT in the test. It's like the thing never existed. When was stealth good? When you went to scan the juggernaught, wowee, where have I seen THAT before? At least in fs1 it was a challenge, the copy of it in fs2 was just blah...
Here we go again. I could just as easily say that the whole McCarthy thing was "just another gimmick designed to make you occupied." Now one thing about the Valkyrie; that was the first combat test of the Valkyrie, not the first controlled test. It had probably been tested many times already and had passed all its testing, so this is the first time it is being used; essentially, this amounts to getting another ship in your pool, so this is no big thing as far as the mission goes. (or if it is, you might as well say that every mission in which a new fighter is available is crucial to the story) The Pegasus on the other hand was being tested for the first time and had a whole new capability.
I will agree that sm3-05.fs2 was very similar to this one. However, you have no room to talk on similarity of missions, since there must have been four or so FS1 missions where you had to raid a cargo depot and another three freighter convoy defense missions (containing stuff you would use later on). FS2's missions were much, much more varied, and this is evidence by the game reviews.
And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...
No, not disable it completely, but get rid of the Shivan Cluster launchers on it so that the AIs don't die right away. It helps in that one. I would also like to have a disabling mission or two in FS2, which had too few of them, but FS1 had a bit too many.
Yes, you are right that the better primaries come after that (right next mission, in fact), but you get the tempests which, while technically a secondary, are used exactly like primaries.
The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....
Look, all they really are is cargo containers with labels. The shields themselves don't play any role in the mission at all; they could all be exchanged with Bosch Beer for example and the mission would be exactly the same. The one interesting thing about this mission is that incident with the PVFr Andromeda, but that alone is not enough to make an essential story mission.
The Aftermath
This is debatable... I believe it's there to hammer home the Tombaugh station's loss, does pretty good job too IMHO... heh, fighters chattering, a delicate and huge convoy that needs to defend. I also think it's the first one you're almost fully incharge of stuff (....That winds me up to no end, AI dying because I can't order them....).
Come on, if you give it that much leeway just about every mission has some tiny little thing in the story. Is it interesting and fun? Sure. Essential to the story? Not really.
The Big Bang introduces red alerts, also you're defending the Tsunami project, which, dunno about you, but I use rather a lot later on, nuts to harbinger... (apart from for luci), admittedly, it's not desperately plot important, but it helps, most of the techs come out of no where, especially in FS2.
Once again, this is just labeling a cargo container (or a science cruiser in this case) with some important thing and cannot alone be used to make the mission a story-advancement mission; in the mission itself, there is no tsunami used. Heck, this kind of thing could be used to "justify" the importance of sm2-01.fs2, where the cargo is the TAG missiles. (otherwise it is a pretty standard escort mission and one of FS2's fillers)
As for the FS2 comment, that's because they are being developed back at the main systems while you are at the front lines of battle, so they are ready to go by the time you recieve them.
Fortuna a filler?
Read the command briefing before it, wont be so filler...
The fact that it's infested with shivan's makes you wonder, considering previously, and throughout the rest of the campaign they seem to very very losely work together.
A command briefing alone is no substitute for a mission story. Yes, it was surprising that the HOL outpost was gone and the player was not initially expecting a fight with the shivans, but that alone does not make it anywhere near an essential story mission. If you just keep the command briefing and change around the whole mission, the overall story will remain more or less the same.
Where Eagles Dare - Same as Fortuna, read the command briefing.
See above.
Well, I could put up no arguement, I mean, it's not exactly the most prophetic mission in the game, however there's something about the Eva just having engaged it's subspace drives as you get there that makes me wanna say it's there to increase player tension or something similar, considering it teases you in a 'can't touch this' style...
Sure, I felt the same thing, but once again, this is not nearly enough to have a true story-advancement part in the mission.
Yep you're right, and another minus point is how lame it was done
Well, like its tech description says, it is not quite as powerful as any GTVA corvette and is probably used for different purposes, so there was no point in trying to show off its power.
-
What you say about our bias is directly returnable, you know.
You're being irrational too.
When I originally talked about the plot twists and anti-climatical atmosphere produced by them, I was refering to a University grad English teacher who does theater arts in his spare time (...and by that I mean I think he'd rather do TA then eat/sleep), that was his evaluation of it, and it's true, it's why most people find FS2 Tedious if they do, if they don't then they're suckered in by the good VA, and the good special affects making things all pretty, for delivery, FS2 sucks.
Sorry you don't seem to be able to accept that CP, but I've talked to the English Editor of PC Gamer and PC Games, The guy who replaced the original editor of Games doesn't know what he's talking about 90% of the time, he's like George Bush, I swear it gave me a headache...
And Gamer? he doesn't care about reviews, he likes getting money, so he just puts the most graphically active games in as a best and then hopes they sell off with storyline, most of the other, 'crappy' or 'mainly storyline based' reviews on there is done by the co-ed.
Then again they might have changed staff recently, I don't know, last time I checked they were pathetic.
and I used to follow games religiously.
-
What you say about our bias is directly returnable, you know.
You're being irrational too.
Well, I already showed you several instances where you and BD were being so; now you show me where I am.
When I originally talked about the plot twists and anti-climatical atmosphere produced by them, I was refering to a University grad English teacher who does theater arts in his spare time (...and by that I mean I think he'd rather do TA then eat/sleep), that was his evaluation of it, and it's true, it's why most people find FS2 Tedious if they do, if they don't then they're suckered in by the good VA, and the good special affects making things all pretty, for delivery, FS2 sucks.
Oh really? Then why is that all of the reviews out there, without exception, say that FS2's story is far superior and more complex? Never mind the graphics, special effects and whatnot; the story is good enough to stand on its own. Or even in this topic alone, there are certainly more people who find the FS2 story better than the opposite, as shown by both the poll results and previous postings.
Also, you are not exactly talking to the best judge here; instead of a theater arts professor, talk to a history or political science professor. For example, all stories in theater arts must be centered around individual characters or they would be impossible to perform; this is obviously not true in history, and the best stories are almost always not based on characters at all. Then again, this is only one guy; you might find another person in the same subject with exactly the opposite opinion.
Sorry you don't seem to be able to accept that CP, but I've talked to the English Editor of PC Gamer and PC Games, The guy who replaced the original editor of Games doesn't know what he's talking about 90% of the time, he's like George Bush, I swear it gave me a headache...
And Gamer? he doesn't care about reviews, he likes getting money, so he just puts the most graphically active games in as a best and then hopes they sell off with storyline, most of the other, 'crappy' or 'mainly storyline based' reviews on there is done by the co-ed. Then again they might have changed staff recently, I don't know, last time I checked they were pathetic.
and I used to follow games religiously.
I don't know about PC Gamer individually, but I have over 20 reviews from different websites and magazines to back me up on every one of my points here. You can contest one or two, but you cannot contest them all. :p
As for PC Gamer itself, its recent staff and general expository style does indeed suck, but they used to be very good a few years ago, perhaps the best hard-copy written game magazine out there. (e.g. in 1998, when FS2 was reviewed)
-
Oh Dear God...I'm not even addressing that post due to it's horrific ignorance, arrogence, and utter stupidity...
OMFG...
I can't believe YOU Actually think that stuff, Crap... I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this, sure i haven't been the most polite person either but at least i'm not that bloody oblivious...
-
Basically you do not have anything further to say and so you are trying to mask your total defeat by throwing around insults. Looks like I more or less won this argument, and FS2 is superior. ;7 ah well, it should teach you that I am a bit hard to shake off once you start fighting with me. :D
I will just do the usual thing in this case and show that a good old insult can be in any situation and by any involved party; so versatile these little things are! Saying so,
I'm not even addressing that post due to its horrific ignorance, arrogance and utter stupidity. I cannot believe YOU actually think that stuff. I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this; sure I haven't been the most polite person either but at least I am not that bloody oblivious.
:D
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Oh Dear God...I'm not even addressing that post due to it's horrific ignorance, arrogence, and utter stupidity...
OMFG...
I can't believe YOU Actually think that stuff, Crap... I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this, sure i haven't been the most polite person either but at least i'm not that bloody oblivious...
Oh, come on now, this is no place for a tantrum. :lol:
Couldn't agree with you more, CP. :D
-
Considering most of you guys have been doing that for the last three pages, I ain't too bothered...
And no, I didn't 'lose' just realised you're a bit to ignorant... on this case anyway :p
The most dangerous people to argue against, are those who do not know everything about the subject, but do know enough about the subject to manipulate it with their own perspectives.
My main comment, is that FS2, would never be able to stand up in a cinema, whilst FS1 would.
However...
FS2 would make the better book.
Depends on your style of storyline, personally I do prefer books, but in game format, the Cinematic perspective is normally used in literature references, I went over this about 10 times two years ago... This is how the industry for TV/Cinema/LiveStageProductions, and the industry for books and literature works, at least currently. Sorry I can't do much to prove it to you apart from to put you on a year course with 3years peripheral study on the subject to realise it....:wtf:
And yeah, it pisses me off when people are arguing points which they only semi-understand (if they fully believe it's correct, anyway).
Which would be why I exploded :p
-
Al lot of these people know more than you Quantum Delta, and you know a lot more than some of them. Throwing around insults usually means you've lost the argument, and you're too inmature to say so nicely.
-
Depends on your emotional security, hehe, it could just be I got tired of talking to a brick wall :p
And no, on this topic, I haven't seen anyone make a comment apart from TBL/SEXP's etc that they do know more about then I, because I lived the FS Saga for almost 5 and a half years, RL and Online, because about 10 of my friends here own the game, we've debated storyline, tactics, and politics (online) countless times, it's really not my fault I can't explain the point about the storyline without about 3 text books worth of quotes and a hollywood director + a famous novelist...lol, oh well, more fool you. :D
-
I'm not saying your inmature, yet... Lots of other people are throwing around insults also. You really don't want to lose an argument to me though. Especially if you've finished college. "cause I'm only thirteen, and that would be embaressing.
Some people here are like talking to a brick wall.:D
And I'm sticking to my neutrality. Fs1 is better than Fs2, but Fs2 is better than Fs1. In there own seperate ways.
-
....Ironically, the thirteen year old speaks more truth in a very short post then most of the rest of the thread combined.
Don't worry hades, I wouldn't be embarrised about that, if you 'beat me in an argument' I'd rather be glad, it means you are an excellent debater, the only problem with that is, you don't win debates, you just learn from them.
....Besides, sometimes children are far more right then any adult could be.
It fades with maturity, but children have a sense of justice unrivaled by any other stage of growth, because they don't act to conditions of others control, yet they aren't ones to bow to peer pressure (not at an early age anyway), which makes them stronger of heart then most teen/adults...
Thing is, they're true to themselves, good or bad.
....Side note, embarrisment is a direct attribute of insecurity....
probably why I never get that way (with two special exceptions which don't need to be put out here....BWAHHAHA :p hehehe...)
-
:wtf: :D
Children are 12 and under, tennagers are 13-18. :D ;)
EDIT: OT - 1200 posts!! Wohoo!
-
hehehe, congratz ;)
btw, I even call adults children sometimes :lol:
Just depends on the style of the person, it's not an insult ;)
-
I didn't take it as an insult, don't worry:)
-
:p drop by pxo sometime, or pick me up on msn/via email and i'll show you around ^^
You'll have a blast I garantee it hehe :D
-
I know my way around.:D
-
You know as soon as you guys start talking about tbl's i lose the plot....lol, i'll be back in a bit gotta slave for the parents.
I meant show ya around flying style, hehe, and this forum always makes me wanna try Jenova again...meh...all plot, no know how, lol, the other thing about Jenova, is it was going to be a multiplayer campaign, it only had 5key missions, so the rest would have been build up to it, plot wise, I only dealt with Generalistics...it was going to flow..lol, point is, those 5 key, would have been 5missions per part, and therefore just about as long as the templar campaign, so even UK 56k's which cut out every two hours could play the campaign through in parts...
Multiplayer campaigns would get played MUCH more then single player ones...(especially if they were good :p)
Just a side note for you guys ;) it does unfortunately mean you'd have to drop ya mods a bit :p
-
I really find that hard to believe QD, considering the number of people that DL these campaigns. Although Warzone isnt on 3Ddownloads anymore, when I saw it there there were thousands of DLs. The two times I went on PXO to get a match going with my bro I saw 5, maybe 6 people (at 6 EST).
FS1 and FS2 would both fail miserably in the cinema. Why? There's no characters. Oh sure, you hear the name of a few admirals, but there's no development or interaction. The quality of a Freespace movie would have nothing to do with the quality of the games' plots themselves, it would have to do with how a writer created characters and fit them in.
If anything, FS2 would be an easier conversion to cinema because it has these people in it. Bosch is a clear antagonist, where FS1 has no single enemy character. Snipes also serves as a "wingman" character that would be needed in a movie. However that's really a stretch, since you still have characterize Alpha 1 and give a face to the Shivans. FS1 has no characters whatsoever, and a faceless, nameless enemy, which doesn't work too well on screen.
Basically, after all that, the point's moot, since neither can be sent to the cinema (or even a book) without massive reconstruction.
-
FS1 could be converted to SELL on the screen, FS2 couldn't, is what I said, because FS2 would be the kind of thing you would see in a book everyone think's "That'd be a good film idea!" then they do it and wonder why it sucked, some plot lines are too complex to do this with.
Complex is not always better.
As for adding characters, yes, you would, need to do so for both games, but think about Space Above and Beyond, it's an amazing series (lol, ask Su), with a nearly nameless and faceless enemy :p
Same as FS1 is.
Main parts that would need to be done well...
Intro to universe.
Background on V's.
Intro to Shivans.
Tech Development to combat them.
Dramatisation of the plot (making it more personal, letting the audience see the loss felt, instead of feeling it themselves, this would be done with the main character obviously...).
Introduction of alliance, while I'm at it too...
Intro of the Lucifer.
Loss of Vasuda/Galatea.
Ancients(this would have to be done differently to the game, the same as the bosch video's would have to be different...).
Destruction of the Lucifer.
That's BAREBONES.
Now write up a list for FS2, you just couldn't fit it in a film and still make it tick... :p
-
What about some of the fan fiction around here? Most of them have characters.
-
like i said...I wrote one myself, hehe...
-
FS2 may have had the better storyline, but I always felt that FS1 had a bit more atmosphere to it. Whether it was the music or something else I don't know, but FS1 had a better ability to get you anxious than FS2 did.
-
And no, I didn't 'lose' just realised you're a bit to ignorant... on this case anyway
The most dangerous people to argue against, are those who do not know everything about the subject, but do know enough about the subject to manipulate it with their own perspectives.
except that you cannot say why or where, eh? If I am ignorant, teach me and make me smart by actually defending your points so I know why you think what you think. :D
My main comment, is that FS2, would never be able to stand up in a cinema, whilst FS1 would.
However...
FS2 would make the better book.
Depends on your style of storyline, personally I do prefer books, but in game format, the Cinematic perspective is normally used in literature references, I went over this about 10 times two years ago... This is how the industry for TV/Cinema/LiveStageProductions, and the industry for books and literature works, at least currently. Sorry I can't do much to prove it to you apart from to put you on a year course with 3years peripheral study on the subject to realise it....
Perhaps that is true. But then again, maybe 99% of movies and 95% of novels have complete crap storylines, so that's not saying a whole lot. :p
And yeah, it pisses me off when people are arguing points which they only semi-understand (if they fully believe it's correct, anyway).
Which would be why I exploded
But of course, you are once again unable to say why and/or explain further. suggestive, isn't it? :p
Al lot of these people know more than you Quantum Delta, and you know a lot more than some of them. Throwing around insults usually means you've lost the argument, and you're too inmature to say so nicely.
Exactly, and this behavior is nothing new to me either; look at some of the previous arguments I have been in around here and check out how they end. (two or three posts of insults, and then the guy disappears from the thread) When people finally go out, they tend to do so in the biggest bang they can muster. :D
Intro to universe.
Background on V's.
Intro to Shivans.
Tech Development to combat them.
Dramatisation of the plot (making it more personal, letting the audience see the loss felt, instead of feeling it themselves, this would be done with the main character obviously...).
Introduction of alliance, while I'm at it too...
Intro of the Lucifer.
Loss of Vasuda/Galatea.
Ancients(this would have to be done differently to the game, the same as the bosch video's would have to be different...).
Destruction of the Lucifer.
That's BAREBONES.
Now write up a list for FS2, you just couldn't fit it in a film and still make it tick...
Sure thing. :D
Intro to universe.
Background on V's. (whatever that means)
Intro to NTF and political/historical forces responsible for its formation.
Intro to war and some information on how things are going so far for both involved factions (estimated losses, current points of conflict, campaign planning, etc. ; this should be particularly elaborate)
Tech development to combat them. (be sure to include the physics equations for all the new weapons! ;7 )
Dramatization of the plot (making it as impersonal as possible, since character focus is the main thing that ruins most stories; have it play out like a informative historical movie, and show it from seven or eight different perspectives without too much focus on any one of them; e.g. "Tora! Tora! Tora!" did this extremely well)
Introduction of alliance (its political, military and social structures and the history behind it)
Intro to Shivans (this can be designed in such a way as to make it a complete surprise; routine day on the Vigilant until the arrival)
Loss of Capella
Bosch movies
Destruction of the first Sathanas
I can probably double that list with a bunch of other stuff when I have a bit more time...
As for the "immaturity," that is the one place where I quite agree with your conclusion. Nothing to do with a "sense of justice," but they will much more readily learn new things and encompass new ideas; that is the true sign of "maturity" and "wisdom."
-
Originally posted by CP5670
except that you cannot say why or where, eh? If I am ignorant, teach me and make me smart by actually defending your points so I know why you think what you think. :D
Ignorance isn't stupidity, an ignorant person who is intelligent is dangerous, that was the point of the comment, you sir, are intelligent you can make a point, even be it foolish, heh, even such as this quote, right here. The comment I made didn't NEED any further explanation, apart from the immature and very teenage 'I wanna win neener' attitude.
But of course, you are once again unable to say why and/or explain further. suggestive, isn't it? :p
Again, this does not need further explanation, it is a statement.
Sorry, but suggestive, no, the fact that you can't see my point, or if you can and wont except it, proves the comment in itself.
Exactly, and this behavior is nothing new to me either; look at some of the previous arguments I have been in around here and check out how they end. (two or three posts of insults, and then the guy disappears from the thread) When people finally go out, they tend to do so in the biggest bang they can muster. :D
do I look like I left the thread? or are you just blind? CP, I'm really getting tired of your 'I can't be wrong, I'm me, you're you' attitude, it makes you look even more stupid, or ignorant, your choice... In my eyes.
Sure thing. :D
Intro to universe.
Background on V's. (whatever that means)
Intro to NTF and political/historical forces responsible for its formation.
Intro to war and some information on how things are going so far for both involved factions (estimated losses, current points of conflict, campaign planning, etc. ; this should be particularly elaborate)
Tech development to combat them. (be sure to include the physics equations for all the new weapons! ;7 )
Dramatization of the plot (making it as impersonal as possible, since character focus is the main thing that ruins most stories; have it play out like a informative historical movie, and show it from seven or eight different perspectives without too much focus on any one of them; e.g. "Tora! Tora! Tora!" did this extremely well)
Introduction of alliance (its political, military and social structures and the history behind it)
Intro to Shivans (this can be designed in such a way as to make it a complete surprise; routine day on the Vigilant until the arrival)
Loss of Capella
Bosch movies
Destruction of the first Sathanas
I can probably double that list with a bunch of other stuff when I have a bit more time...
what you don't seem to realise, is this is far too much to go into a film, and you said yourself you want to double it, you believe that a more complex storyline is 'better', this isn't LOTR, you're not going to get die hard fans who'll sit down and watch two or three movies just so this plot can play out, if you did that to them, they'd feel ripped off any want their money back... That's almost the case with some people in LOTR.
Again, more proof, you really don't know what you're chatting about.
-
Ignorance isn't stupidity, an ignorant person who is intelligent is dangerous, that was the point of the comment, you sir, are intelligent you can make a point, even be it foolish, heh, even such as this quote, right here. The comment I made didn't NEED any further explanation, apart from the immature and very teenage 'I wanna win neener' attitude.
And I wonder who suddenly got mad and started posting insults a little while ago? I would really avoid the subject of "immaturity" if I were you, since you have absolutely no leg to stand on there given your conduct in this thread so far. Also, ignorance is indeed more or less the same thing as stupidity; check a dictionary.
By further explanation, I mean that I want to know those things that you are saying I do not know about the subject. What you said was just a statement, and it needs some backing.
Again, this does not need further explanation, it is a statement.
Sorry, but suggestive, no, the fact that you can't see my point, or if you can and wont except it, proves the comment in itself.
No, what I am saying is that you never actually say what points I "semi-understand," nor what their "real understaning" is supposed to be. It's just another hollow insult, but don't worry, I have gotten used to those by now. :D
do I look like I left the thread? or are you just blind? CP, I'm really getting tired of your 'I can't be wrong, I'm me, you're you' attitude, it makes you look even more stupid, or ignorant, your choice... In my eyes.
No, but you gave up arguing and did not respond to any of my points at all, which is all that matters in this case. (not much you could say, anyway) If you think that you are correct and I am wrong, prove it so, and if you cannot, then it goes the other way. I may well be wrong, but you need to show that. As it stands now, FS2 has more or less won. :D
As for the "I'm me, you're you" part, what the heck are you trying to say; I should think that it is rather obvious that I am myself and you are yourself. :p
what you don't seem to realise, is this is far too much to go into a film, and you said yourself you want to double it, you believe that a more complex storyline is 'better', this isn't LOTR, you're not going to get die hard fans who'll sit down and watch two or three movies just so this plot can play out, if you did that to them, they'd feel ripped off any want their money back... That's almost the case with some people in LOTR.
Again, more proof, you really don't know what you're chatting about.
I thought LOTR sold pretty well, actually. This is not at all "far too much to go into a film," because there have been good movies made in exactly the same manner before, in that of historical documentaries; this is already the general style of both FS games. And yes you are going to get die hard fans as you described, and that is almost all you will get at the beginning. (from a coporate point of view, making a FS movie is ridiculous unless it has an enormous fanbase in the first place; it cannot just be set in the FS universe but must have the general FS style and format as well)
As for the rest of that, are you trying to tell me that any story should be made simple on purpose?! (maybe because you cannot comprehend it otherwise? :D) Well, let us have a story of a guy walking around, then! I have not seen a single game criticized because of an overly complex storyline in my entire life, and the idea is so ludicrous that if I ever did see such a thing somewhere, I would never read that publication again. :p
-
You are by far, worse then I am, because I actually think you seriously believe what you're saying when you make these semi-points in defence...
It's scary...
...Oh well, unless someone else wants to pick up the points.
I don't like arguing with idiots.
-
Sure I do, or I would not be saying them. (same goes for you) I don't like arguing with idiots either. :D :D
-
strange...that post actually made me hit myself on the head...
-
against what?
-
At the time, the palm of my hand... it's just a habit I have when things are wierd....or other situations which I don't need to comment on :p
-
oh I see; I thought you fell or something... :p :D
-
That's another situation ;)
...And what are you doing up so late on a monday morning...shouldn't you sleep...?
-
lol, I would have retired a while ago but there is this messy math problem that is taking all my time. Don't think I could sleep with this on my mind unsolved anyway... :p
My sleep habits are a bit unusual though, so this tends to be a common thing for me. :D
-
Sounds like the programming assignment I'm doing the Pseudocode for right now...I couldn't leave it over night...lol....
without that, I wouldn't be posting here :p
-
More importantly, QD, what are you and I doing up this early? I mean, the fog hasn't even burned off here - freezing fog at that :shaking:
-
:lol: I didn't sleep at all, probably something to do with the fact I haven't slept in nearly 100 hours might be why I got a bit punchy with the posts :lol:
-
Ah, student living... nothing like it :nod:
Though I think 100 would likely be fatal... most any of us ever recorded was 48 straight... 45 be my personal best :D
-
If you can call it that, hehehe, I'm not even finished, I would have been hours ago but the University's remote accessnetwork (uses telnet) is kinda dead right now, which means I'll have to go do the last part manually (..actually REDO) in the UNIX centre..heh
Fun piece of programming though, insanely simple :p
-
Time for a kebab, methinks...
-
:lol: :lol: My whole class lives off Kebab/take away, I do take away/pot noodle LOL :p
-
We're down to half a packet of soggy crisps, a tube of Bonjella gum ointment, a Pot Noodle, and a tin of dog food.
Well, it's obvious what gets eaten first. I can't stand Pot Noodle...
As usual, a cookie to the person to place the quote...
Now, this is how to derail a topic :nod:
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
As usual, a cookie to the person to place the quote...
Now, this is how to derail a topic :nod:
Red Dwarf?
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
As usual, a cookie to the person to place the quote...
Now, this is how to derail a topic :nod:
Red Dwarf from the episode Marooned.
-
Well, strictly speaking it was the second RD novel, Better Than Life... but you get a cookie to share between you (since it is time for elevensies...)
Put the kettle on, Aldo...
:)
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well, strictly speaking it was the second RD novel, Better Than Life... but you get a cookie to share between you (since it is time for elevensies...)
Put the kettle on, Aldo...
:)
Actually, it's broken. Cheap arse uni (it's only in the common room, though).... and I set fire to the toaster last week, so methinks electrical appliances are not my friend ;)
now that's derailment.
-
Good effort, son, good effort. Did the Army get their arses in to gear and come and save you?
[EDIT} Perhaps best not to touch your computer, eh?
-
And now for something completely different...an on-topic post!
You are by far, worse then I am, because I actually think you seriously believe what you're saying when you make these semi-points in defence...
It's scary...
...Oh well, unless someone else wants to pick up the points.
I don't like arguing with idiots.
Basically, you're saying you don't know how to respond to CPs examples and backed up arguments. Instead you must call them "semi-points" ( :wtf: ) and say it's "scary" for someone to disagree with you.
By the way, trying to use LoTR as an example of an overly complicated storyline was probably a bad idea. It sold incredibly well and got superb ratings, and not just because of a bunch of fanboys who camped out the night before the opening show. Granted, some people were disappointed with LoTR (mostly those who never read the novels, and thus bitterly complained "That's not a good ending!!" :lol: ) but that's true with every film. If anything, the huge popularity and great reviews LoTR got indicates that the most people prefer a complicated storyline that they have to think to understand.
-
That's not on topic, that's on-stupid :)
In the words of the great wise man
(http://www.internetbumperstickers.com/images/s/shut_up.gif)
-
Lol, shiva got left behind when everyone else moved on.
I can't be bothered to really address that anymore, but what I mean is, FS isn't LOTR, It would never have the sucess, because err, well, yeah...
What would you do, Ravana death, 3rd fleet loss, final ending?
For three films, those line ups SUCK.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Lol, shiva got left behind when everyone else moved on.
Actually people could easily say that about you. This topic had been dead for 3 days before you and BD posted to it.
-
Yeah you're right, but oh yeah, we posted on why FS1 was better than FS2 not if Lotr would be better than FS1 supposed movie and how much audience it would get :lol:
-
um, QD started the whole lotr thing... :p
...It would never have the sucess, because err, well, yeah...
:wtf: i see... :p