Author Topic: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release  (Read 9017 times)

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
It has been a long while since I've played fs1, But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?


 

Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
It has been a long while since I've played fs1, But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?



That sounds like fanfic, dreadingly called "fanon".  Currently, there no real canon explanation regarding the problems I mentioned above, only that the GTVA acquired beam technology from the Shivans.  There  is no mention about how both sides developed anti-fighter beams or flak guns completely independant from eachother, apparantly.  Besides, if the ancients actually did invent beam weapons, then there would be no need to track the Lucifer through subspace, since beams completely ignore shields, including (presumably) the Lucifer's, which is probably why both sides felt it a waste to shield either of their large capital ships.  What the Ancients discovered was a way to track ships through subspace, and that's all.  In subspace, the Lucy can be destroyed using "normal" (non-beam) weapons.

Granted, what I'm doing is what might be called "fanfic," but hopefully it might be considered plausible fanfic.  I'm not attempting to create a sort of "fanon" explanation, just an idea that people might have in their minds as a sort of plausibility, so they don't have to stress about the lack of continuity.  I welcome other explanations, as long as they're sound, plausible, and not logically contradictory.

 

Offline neoterran

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
don't feel bad freespace freak ! I think it's a great idea and i've added your stuff to my freespace collection so i have the option of playing beam enabled FS1. But hell, if you're going to make an add on campaign, that's also very welcome ! :D
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Offline Mobius

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Someone has proposed an FS1 campaign with beams(only Shivans) time ago...
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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?

Nowhere in FS does it say the Ancients ever discovered beam technology.

I agree, don't give up this mod, FS_Freak. I find this... let's call it an "adjustment"... far more plausible than "the Shivans weren't using beams at all in FS1". Yes, I know they don't have them in the game, but that was only because comps didn't have graphics support for beams (though I do wonder why they didn't put some version of the superlaser on smaller Shivan ships, probably just to make the Lucifer even more unique...)


Bottom Line: Some people don't agree with you, but they are the vocal minority. That happens in whatever big project is released. Someone somewhere will find something wrong with it. Keep up the good work, because this is a great idea and I'd hate to see it go to waste because of some minor disagreements.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
The Lucy won't have anti-fighter beams, by the way, simply because I felt a ship that is supposed to be impervious to "normal" weapons doesn't need a defense from small fry.  I figured all of its weapons should be made for capital ship assault.

The approach will not be easy. You're required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the station. Only a precise hit will set off a chain reaction.

 :lol:

Just popped in my mind... :rolleyes:
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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?

Nowhere in FS does it say the Ancients ever discovered beam technology.



Ah, my bad then, Like I said it has been awhile since I played fs1......

 
Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
and too freespace freak.
To hell with what the haters are saying. I say go for it and keep making the mod.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
If there's two things I've always thought is vital on the FS Modding board is the ability to say 'I don't like it.', and the ability for the modder to choose whether to take it as something they agree with or not.

If you're happy with your Mod then keep it exactly the way it is Freespace Freak, however, people will be honest with their opinion about Mods and Campaigns if you ask for comments, and I promise you, you'll never please everyone, certainly not with something that involves Canon-based events like this ;)


 
Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
In my experience, working with canonical info is almost harder to make people accept.
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Offline Turey

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
In my experience, working with canonical info is almost harder to make people accept.

it's certainly harder to make.

I must have spent over 100 hours replaying the games and reading the wiki just to make sure I didn't screw up my references.

And my mod barely involves the main campains at all...
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Offline Flipside

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
I've always felt it was more about atmosphere, if a story is engaging and entertaining and it draws the player in, they will be prepared to accept almost any explanation in order to keep the story going, as long as it is plausable. The only problem with campaigns set between the two wars is that you have reduced flexibility in weapon and ship mods, but if you are simply doing a standard FS2 campaign, that really isn't a problem :)

 

Offline Culando

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Hmm. Trying for more continuity I see? Very interesting. I have had issues about ship weapons in both games being to similar. Terrans and Vasudans having the same weapons, Shivans using TV bombs, everyone getting beams and flak. The tweak, as I'll call it, is a very nice idea and I'm in full support of it. But why stop with FS1? :)

I was thinking about it today. If the GTVA indeed got their beam tech from the Shivans, well, the Luci was the only ship that had it and it blew up on the Sol side of the node. The GTVA would have had to done a lot of experimenting, and with the recontruction period and the contruction of the Collossus, part of me wonders if they really could have had the time to perfect beam technology as much as they did even in those 20 years.

It might be more reasonable to think that the GTVA in the time of FS2 wouldn't have as much beam tech. Maybe just the anti-cap ship beam cannons on the corvettes and destroyers, and no anti-fighter beams. Then the flak guns would be more for taking down fighters and bombers.

And speaking of flak guns. What are Shivans doing with them? They seem like a more crude weapon than the precise beams that they adore so much. Why would a race that uses lasers and beams more than missles and stuff go for a ballistic weapon like flak cannons? IIRC, Shivan fighters don't carry that many warheads, aside from the bombers at least. So seeing flak cannons on Shivan ships just seems kinda odd. Also, seeing a superiority of beam tech on Shivan ships gives a better "holy crap!" feel to their armada I'd think.

Basically the idea is this. Give the Shivans more beams, take away the flak. Give the GTVA more flak and less beams. Or better yet, do that for just Terrans and think up something different for the Vasudans.

I know I'm just prattling on, but these are ideas that popped into my head while thinking about this topic today. Freak, you can take this idea or leave it. I just wanted to throw it out there. :)
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Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Whoa, my topic got moved and all of a sudden I have a flurry of responses!  Thanks Goober!  And thanks everybody else for the support!  :)

Anyway, you have an interesting idea Culando, but I don't want to change FS2 any, though, just the interim between FS1 and FS2, which brings me to my next idea that I would like to discuss.

First things first, please post any glitches or PM me if you have any problems.  The only mission that I rescripted was Clash of the Titans, and that was only because the Tantalus was too far away and wasn't oriented to where its beams would pose a threat to the Bastion, and I scripted the launch of the first bomber wing to 30 seconds after the player destroys one of its beams to give the player time to do what needs to be done.  Other than that, the game's the same except the Shivans have beams and aren't afraid to use them.  You might also notice that standard lasers are a bit faster, but their fire and damage rate is the same.

Okay, I'm sort of mulling over what direction to take next.  As this mod sort of met with mixed acceptance, I'm going over possibilities in my mind.  I could conitinue with this, rescript Silent Threat, and then continue on to the campaign where flak guns and how they are acquired by the Shivans is brought about.  Or, I could scrap this mod in its current iteration, to allow for greater community acceptance.

This was my thought, instead of changing FS1, leave FS1 alone, in its retail version, and instead add to the events shortly following Silent Threat to create continuity.  This is how I was thinking about going about it:

Some months after the events of Silent Threat, a Terran and Vasudan project creates beam technology using captured GTI engineering documents and equipment.  They also recreate the GTI's efforts at ship-shielding and manage to shield an Orion destroyer and arm it with the new beam weapons.  It turns out that the beams from the Lucifer and the Hades used a rare focusing crystal, the size of a small asteroid.  Neither the Terrans or Vasudans could find equivalent crystal and intead used replacement ones that, although work similarly, are not as effective, so these new beams are not as powerful as the Lucy's or the Hades', and they glow green instead of red or orange-red because of it.  This destroyer would house no fighters since the generator powering the shield system was designed to fit into the hangar bay.  You are assigned to another destroyer that is part of this experimental destroyer's task force.

Command has decided to deploy this new shielded beam-equipped Destroyer against the remnant Shivan forces.  Preliminary tests go off without a hitch.  The Orion is impervious to enemy fire and all, and its beam weapons allow for quick kills.  Meanwhile, intelligence spots a Shivan repair depot in some system or another.  Multiple Shivan vessals are spotted in the vicinity, including a Demon.  This destroyer is dispatched to destroy the depot along with all enemy capital ships and your wing is deployed to assist.  At the start of the mission, things immediately take a strange turn.  All the Shivan warships flee from this destroyer except the Demon, which turns to intercept.  This is odd because ever since this Orion was first deployed, Shivans have been avoiding it like the plague.  Suddenly, the reason for the Demon's audacity reveals itself, as it opens fire with its own beam cannons.

Mass chaos ensues as it quickly becomes apparant that the destroyer's shielding system, which was thought to be impervious to all known weapons, is completely being bypassed by the Demon's beams.  The Demon's beams cause a reactor overload on the Orion, and it becomes unable to return fire in kind, and it becomes up to the player to save the day.  Your wing is ordered to take out the Demon's beams, but you run into trouble as the Shivans demonstrate their new weapon, the anti-fighter beam.  Because of it, many of your wing refuse orders to attack the Demon, fearing this new weapon. 

After the mission, the TV forces work on building their own anti-fighter beams, while simultaneously deploying thier new weapon, the flak gun, created by Vasudan engineers who acquired a taste for "ancient" human history.  (They got the idea for the flak gun by watching old WWII archival footage.)  The TV forces abandon future plans to shield capital ships, since shields are useless against beams, and instead focus on creating better weaponry.  There are many other aspects to this campaign, but it ends with the final defeat of the Shivans, and the dissolution of the GTA that transitions into the Reconstruction period.

Tell me what you guys think of this idea as an "alternative" to my current mod.  The pros is that because it doesn't change retail FS1, it might have more community support.  The cons is that it supports the "Shivans didn't use beam tech in FS1 because they didn't need it/were being good sports" theory that I'm not a big fan of.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Sounds pretty cool. :yes:

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Surprised Goober didn't say this but I'd advise not touching Silent Threat until he releases ST:R.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Hm.  Probably a good point.  GTI Rebellion is doing their own thing too though.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do ST, the other reason is that adding beams to the ST missions would be a nightmare to balance.

 

Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
Sounds pretty cool. :yes:

Thanks.  The problem with it is that it would probably run a little counter to the ST:R campaign you're working on.  Not that two non-canon campaigns can't exist simultaneously or anything.  The biggest problem is that if I have the campaign I mentioned above to take place shortly after the events of Silent Threat, then it would counter ST:R in that the Shivan defeat and the GTA break up take place after the Events of Silent Threat, not at the end of it as I believe will happen during ST:R.  (I hope I'm not giving away too much info, delete what is necessary if I am.)

I might be able to come up with a good story where it all takes place during ST, but I'd come across the problem of how the GTA got beam and cap-ship shielding technology, if they weren't using tech acquired from captured GTI experiments, etc.  The details of the story-line can change any moment, though, as I'm still trying to figure out a finalized story.  For right now, I can really only concieve of this stuff happening after the events of ST, starting maybe two months after the destruction of the Hades, and ending maybe four to six months after that.  Which would place the final defeat of the Shivans and subsequent dissolution of the GTA at about one year or so past the destruction of the Lucifer.  All and all that sounds pretty tight and concise, I think. 

I realize I'm giving away alot of the hypothetical storyline, something that modders hardly ever do, but I want to get a feel for the potential community reaction to whatever I may end up releasing.

 

Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FS1 Overhaul Beta Release
This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do ST, the other reason is that adding beams to the ST missions would be a nightmare to balance.

That'd be a wait and see sort of thing.  We may end up scrapping the effort to redo FS1 and ST, and instead just focus and doing a campaign only.  At least then, we don't have to worry about balancing pre-existing missions.  But, on the other hand, as I found out by redoing FS1, balancing really wasn't an issue.  The biggest problem was merely rescripting the missions so that the beams from the Shivans were actually threatening, not toning them down so that they're less threatening.