[vyper]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1124-06.htm

I wish Sandwich and HLP was available right now.  

I'm glad Sandwich and HLP are available.


(taken from NW )

[Flipside]

That is terrible

Though you will take into account that some action has been taken against the commander involved when discussing this? I cannot condone what happened there, it sort of taints my views....

Theres going to be debate about the fact that some 10 year old kids are being trained as bombers, and counter claims that she wasn't posing a threat etc......

I would like to hear Sandwich's views on this, but not just to have yet another pop at the IDF

[vyper]

"Though you will take into account that some action has been taken against the commander involved when discussing this? "

Yeah you mean the commander who won't be charged with even manslaughter because there's no proof the two bullets killed her? :meh:

[Flipside]

I know what you mean Vyper, it is disgusting, theres no other way to describe it.

I wish there were......

[aldo_14]

Could they still  charge him with murder?

Simply because I remember they did that with a British soldier (over the killing of an Iraqi) who had returned from Basra - albeit there may have been a technicality with the court martial that allowed that.

[kasperl]

A Dutch marine got charged with murder after a ricochet bullet it an Iraqi robbing supply trucks. Mind, the prosecution halted after the public outrage, but yeah, murder charges could work.

[karajorma]

Disgraceful.

[.::Tin Can::.]

This is absolutely upsetting. Terrible.

[TrashMan]

I'm starting to vote for the Palestinians.....

[Jetmech Jr.]

Sick. Just Wrong. F*cker should be lynched.

[Annihilation]

That's what happens when you let a psychotic piece of **** be a military commander. He will probably receive a medal for killing a child.

[IceFire]

Just fair warning: Watch yourselves in this thread please.  No more rampant flaming political discussions please.

Also I should say...one source on such a controversial issue (or ever) is really not enough.  Look at this academically and try and consider multiple viewpoints...we're all intelligent enough to deal with things with a better level of analysis.

[Bobboau]

you realy haven't been paying atention to the other political threads have you

[Kazan]

Originally posted by IceFire
we're all intelligent enough to deal with things with a better level of analysis.

*scoffs*

[aldo_14]

[Splinter]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Sick. Just Wrong. F*cker should be lynched.

I would tend to agree however they dont have a death sentence here. the worst you get is life in prison which for him I think would be more fiting anyway I think he should be put in a prison with a bunch of palestinian terrorists who have been arrested maybe then he can see the diffrence between a 10 year old girl and a 30 year old guy!

[Styxx]

First, I'm a bit doubtful of a news source where they highlight an article called "Ten reasons not to move to Canada". Is there any other source? What time of the day it was, for example?

Second, I'm sorry for the girl and all, it's a horrible thing, et cetera, but what if the bag had in fact contained explosives? Cases of children being used for suicide bombings are not unknown, and it was a "no entry zone" - meaning she shouldn't be there, so at least part of the responsibility is with her parents for letting her go there. If I was the garrison's commander, and had orders to shoot anyone who crossed the perimeter, I'd follow them - unless they had provisions for not engaging a specific type of intruder.

Third, I'm sure all the palestinians are horrified for this, but they don't even blink when Israeli children, alongside their whole families, are killed on suicide bombings of buses and restaurants - places that don't even have the "no entry zone" status.

So yeah, forgive me if I'm not for lynching or hanging that guy. I'd have to hang a lot more people higher on the list before I got to him.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Styxx
First, I'm a bit doubtful of a news source where they highlight an article called "Ten reasons not to move to Canada". Is there any other source? What time of the day it was, for example?

Second, I'm sorry for the girl and all, it's a horrible thing, et cetera, but what if the bag had in fact contained explosives? Cases of children being used for suicide bombings are not unknown, and it was a "no entry zone" - meaning she shouldn't be there, so at least part of the responsibility is with her parents for letting her go there. If I was the garrison's commander, and had orders to shoot anyone who crossed the perimeter, I'd follow them - unless they had provisions for not engaging a specific type of intruder.

Third, I'm sure all the palestinians are horrified for this, but they don't even blink when Israeli children, alongside their whole families, are killed on suicide bombings of buses and restaurants - places that don't even have the "no entry zone" status.

So yeah, forgive me if I'm not for lynching or hanging that guy. I'd have to hang a lot more people higher on the list before I got to him.

Well, according to the article he not only injured here, but then moved in and killed her.

In the recorded exchanges someone in the operations room asks: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" The observation post, housed in a watchtower, replies: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastwards, a girl of about 10. She's behind the embankment, scared to death."

Not until four minutes later was it reported that the girl had been hit and had fallen. The observation post reports: "Receive, I think that one of the positions took her out." ... Operations room: "What, she fell?" Observation post: "She's not moving right now."

The tape records the commander as telling his men, after firing at the girl with an automatic weapon and declaring he has "confirmed" the killing: "Anyone who's mobile, moving in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

The tape, broadcast on Israel's Channel Two TV, gives the most graphic account of the killing after which soldiers in the company, part of the Givati Brigade, complained that they had been "besmirched" by the company commander's insistence on "confirming the kill".

The army admitted shortly after the shooting near the Girit outpost that it had been a mistake. The girl was carrying a bag which the army said that the soldiers had thought contained explosives, but which was found to contain schoolbooks. Although the family is at a loss to explain why she had wandered into a dangerous prohibited zone, they say she was on her way to school at the time.

The soldiers said that the commander had fired two shots at the girl from close range as she lay on the ground before withdrawing, turning and "emptying his magazine" by firing some 10 bullets at her body.

Now, the Israelis definately have robots capable of bomb disposal use - I remember them from a TV report; also, why did this guy see fit to walk over to a several wounded youngster and 'empty his magazine'?  Especially as it would seem very likely that he would be able to simply kick the bag away, and if she was wearing a bomb-vest he'd surely be in danger by walking into close range.

So, even if he could justify the initial shooting, then what followed does seem unjustifiable from my perspective.

NB: yeah, it is hypocritical to have a mass Palestinian outcry about this but not about Israel children - or indeed civillian - casualties.  But what can you do but hope the other side is able to maintain a sense of morality about what they've done or do wrong?

EDIt; Oh, and the fact that the article says the soldiers there felt 'besmirched' by the killing probably indicates a lot about the illegality of it.

[Styxx]

Well, if you consider only the fact that he shot her after she was down, yeah, I'd consider that reprehensible, but not nearly enough to warrant lynching or the death penalty. She was already down, probably dead. Anything up to that point is justifiable in my view, and probably what they've been ordered to do.

[Clave]

Shooting a 10 year old girl or boy is never justifiable.