Author Topic: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project  (Read 118178 times)

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Offline DaBrain

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
We've created the models to see how well it works.

So far every model I imported the new mesh into had holes in the collision afterwards, so none of them is currently used in the game. We're just prepared to use them once this works better.


Preparing the models already is not a bad idea, but I don't know when and if the collision issues will be fixed.
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Offline The E

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
This should probably be turned into a Mantis issue/feature request. (Unless it already is there, and I just missed it)
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Offline Mura

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
This might be reviving an old horse, but isn't that what's commonly called a hitbox in 2D games?
It's really easy to see how it would improve on performance, i hope this can be implemented correctly.
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Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
This might be reviving an old horse, but isn't that what's commonly called a hitbox in 2D games?
It's really easy to see how it would improve on performance, i hope this can be implemented correctly.
Yes, a hitbox is exactly what it is.  Some 3D games still call them exactly that. Though it seems FSO has settled on calling them collision meshes.

Ya, the value of collision meshes is so strong that I am surprised that this was not already done.
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Offline Tomo

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Ya, the value of collision meshes is so strong that I am surprised that this was not already done.
This is almost certainly because the core of the engine appears to scare everybody.

There has been very little work done in the guts of engine recently - this isn't scientific, but the svn history of modelcollide.cpp has only 5 commits since 16th March 2008.
- The whole of the model folder has 64 commits, mostly animation, table and SEXP related.

Obviously, none of this gives any indication of how significant or difficult any of these changes was, but it is indicative of how little work has been done there recently.
(There aren't any valid metrics for importance or difficulty. A one-character bugfix could be amazingly hard and important, fifty lines of code could be trivial)

As to why - this is probably documentation.

A tiny change in the core of the engine is likely to affect almost everything - this makes it extremely dangerous to go in without knowing exactly what you're doing.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I would point out that DaBrains' method definitely needs more testing, by more people. It seems to be a workaround that would work in the engine as it is now; as such, it would behoove us to make it work right.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Suggestion: threadsplit so as not to keep bumping an archived board? That, or bring it back?

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I don't think we have a good place for a discussion like that right now. I'd suggest renaming this forum to "Overhaul Planning/Discussion", or open a new board for it.
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Please PM me in case you want to apply
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Offline High Max

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
*_*
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 11:06:49 pm by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
There is a dedicated thread in the SCP internal for overhauls such as documentation, collision code upgrade, etc.  Active planning should go there.

If people merely want to talk about what sort of stuff would be involved, and what they would like to see, then this can probably be split off into the SCP public forum.

 

Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
There is a dedicated thread in the SCP internal for overhauls such as documentation, collision code upgrade, etc.  Active planning should go there.

If people merely want to talk about what sort of stuff would be involved, and what they would like to see, then this can probably be split off into the SCP public forum.

Having a thread in internal SCP forum is all well and good, but it is not much use to those of us that are not SCP members.

The problem with this being in the SCP public forum is that, as you mentioned when you moved this thread to the archive, most if not all of this will little to do with the SCP right now, everything thing here is for future planning and will just get buried in the SCP board.  Which is arguably what what the SCP internal board is actually for, but again, part of the point of this project is to include the TC and Mod Makers in the process so that they get the engine that they want, not what the SCP coders think they want or need.  The SCP internal board by definition excludes this type of discussion.

In this case I agree with DaBrain that this forum be reinstated or another created called the "FSO Documentation and Long Term Planning" with the tag line of "The place where we document the current engine and plan for the pie-in-the-sky features to be of FSO."
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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
There is a dedicated thread in the SCP internal for overhauls such as documentation, collision code upgrade, etc.  Active planning should go there.

If people merely want to talk about what sort of stuff would be involved, and what they would like to see, then this can probably be split off into the SCP public forum.

The last time I was on there, the internal board was about the quietest place on SCP (and still may be, for all I know).

This kind of discussion really should be public.
It's a case of what do the community think we should be doing, not what do 5 coders think we're doing.

Think community, not engine.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
to be honest i dont see why it should matter if the nuts and bolts of the SCP are discussed on an internal board i mean to 90% of the members not on the SCP team that kind of stuff would be meaningless, lets face it i have done a little pascal, VB and C++ coding at college and if you posted a piece of the code it would be close meaningless to me.

if this thread was going to be maintained so the wider comunity can have a say and the SCP team keep us all updated on what is happening then i dont see a problem.
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Offline The E

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
No. Input from people that are not on the team is necessary for this. Let's face it, there are guys like Nuke who certainly can provide some valuable insight, and not every left-field idea non-SCPers will throw around will be crap.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
The problem with this being in the SCP public forum is that, as you mentioned when you moved this thread to the archive, most if not all of this will little to do with the SCP right now, everything thing here is for future planning and will just get buried in the SCP board.  Which is arguably what what the SCP internal board is actually for, but again, part of the point of this project is to include the TC and Mod Makers in the process so that they get the engine that they want, not what the SCP coders think they want or need.  The SCP internal board by definition excludes this type of discussion.
There is a board for that too: the Hosted Project Collaboration forum.  That's the place where the SCP and the internal projects discuss what the projects need and what the SCP can offer.


The last time I was on there, the internal board was about the quietest place on SCP (and still may be, for all I know).

This kind of discussion really should be public.
It's a case of what do the community think we should be doing, not what do 5 coders think we're doing.
The SCP board has been quiet recently because people have been doing all their discussion on IRC.  Much of that needs to be moved back to the internal forum.

And the discussion should be private, or semi-private (e.g. in Hosted Collaboration) because the SCP have a responsibility to the code as well as the community.  The code needs to be kept stable and bug free, and it needs to be upgraded in a sensible manner.  The SCP isn't a democracy any more than HLP is a democracy, because people who go in and get their hands dirty are more qualified to judge the state of the project (and this goes for both the SCP and for mods) than people who are merely spectating.  For example, far too many people think the graphics engine is in the most need of improvement, when the graphics code has been continually and consistently upgraded throughout the entire life of the SCP.  More attention needs to be paid to the collision code, the model animation code, and yes, the documentation.


No. Input from people that are not on the team is necessary for this. Let's face it, there are guys like Nuke who certainly can provide some valuable insight, and not every left-field idea non-SCPers will throw around will be crap.
I believe Nuke has access to HPC.  If not, we can easily add him.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I would still prefer for discussions like this to be entirely in the open. People like Genghis, who come basically out of nowhere to provide fixes would probably be attracted to something like this.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
It says something about the Hosted Project Collaboration board that I was not aware of its existence until right now.

Could I/other BP folk get access? Goodness knows we've made enough feature requests (mostly of the minor sort, I think, and hopefully not too irksome.)

 

Offline The E

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
No, HPO is designed for discussions between Project leaders and SCP staff only.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
Okay.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Welcome to the Rendering Engine Overhaul Project
I would still prefer for discussions like this to be entirely in the open. People like Genghis, who come basically out of nowhere to provide fixes would probably be attracted to something like this.
People like Genghis who come out of nowhere should start with providing basic fixes, as he did and is currently doing.  Overhauling the engine requires a much more in-depth understanding of the codebase that a completely new coder would not have.


It says something about the Hosted Project Collaboration board that I was not aware of its existence until right now.
Indeed -- perhaps what it says is that HPC should be open to "senior project leadership" as opposed to "one project leader".  For now at least, I've added you and Fury.  (Though Fury should have already had access, being an admin.)

Quote
Could I/other BP folk get access? Goodness knows we've made enough feature requests (mostly of the minor sort, I think, and hopefully not too irksome.)
I confess to being slightly irked. :)  It would be good if Blue Planet had its own thread in there, like WCS currently does.