[Gregster2k]

My god, that Taurvi is awesome, Flipside.

Originally posted by karajorma


I wouldn't bump the lowest lod at all. When a ship is 6000m away and only 50m across it really isn't worth spending more than 10 polys on it. Hell you could probably get away with a cube.

You know what kara, you're right. Why dont we all just add *MORE* LOD levels? *grin*

[Liberator]

SMOOTH?!?!?

Um, most of the "offending" ships are on the order of a kilometer long.  There are going to be smooth angle big enough to see from 10 meters, much less multiple kilometers.

Maybe the Vasudans could get away with it, seeing as their tech is slightly more advanced in certain areas.  But Terran stuff is defined as being angular and boxy.

I also refuse to believe that the various fighters are 20+ meters long.  I could beleive a little larger than modern aero-fighters like the F-14 or the F-15, but 20 meters is the size of a medium sized ocean vessel.

[Bobboau]

ok that's it I am once and for all ending this "the fighters are too big" bull







that herc is 13 meters wide 11 tall and 23 long, prety much the exact same as it is listed in model view

any other models you want me to demonstrate this with?

[Taristin]

...hehe, I wanna see it in a Seth. How big are Vasudans...?

[Flipside]

Heh, judging by the Shield test ANI, I'd say about 7ft 2"+

ie. about 2.15m or taller, depending on how tall the Human is

[Taristin]

Looking at that again... those are some really frikkin' huge gun barrels...

[KARMA]

well  surely they aren't small (both fighter and barrels)  
and more important the size of the cockpit is like if it was a two persons fighter

[Bobboau]

no, no it isn't, there would be about two meters worth of stuff in front of him, look at the FS1 opening, the distance is comprable, also look at modern fighters,
someone else look up a cockpit of a modern fighter

[Omniscaper]

Damnit!!! These fighters will definitely NOT fit in the Enterprise's shuttle bay. There goes my goals for pathing fighters bays on the Trek ships. Then again runabouts don't fit either. Time to convert some custom battle shuttles.

[Gregster2k]

Omniscaper couldnt you just scale all your starships up...?

[Omniscaper]

I guess I could. You suppose people will notice a non-canon extension of 10 meters? Does it matter? Too many Trek purists out there. I'm borderline. I care more about tech comparisons to Freespace.

Personally I love the bulkyness of Freespace fighters. If the fighters were the same size as today's fighters, it would seem unlikely that jumpengines, shields, and particle weaponry would even fit.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Bobboau
no, no it isn't, there would be about two meters worth of stuff in front of him, look at the FS1 opening, the distance is comprable, also look at modern fighters,
someone else look up a cockpit of a modern fighter

That, and surely, the pilot would be sitting down... no? So his legs would extend forward a little, and be covered by the technobabble. Maybe with some retracting bits that move forward/backward at time of entry.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Bobboau
ok that's it I am once and for all ending this "the fighters are too big" bull

that herc is 13 meters wide 11 tall and 23 long, prety much the exact same as it is listed in model view
...
also look at modern fighters, someone else look up a cockpit of a modern fighter

Whereas you are correct about the overall scale of the Herc being correct, you should notice that the cockpit is obvously a two-man cockpit. Its huge. If you put the Herc next to a 1:1 scale model of an F14, for example, you'll see that the Herc either has an outsized cockpit, or its a two seater. (for reference, the Herc and the Tomcat are about the same length, thought the herc has the edge by about 4m and the Herc is about 8 times as tall as a Tomcat).

Originally posted by Liberator
I also refuse to believe that the various fighters are 20+ meters long.  I could beleive a little larger than modern aero-fighters like the F-14 or the F-15, but 20 meters is the size of a medium sized ocean vessel.

Listen to Bob, dude.  The Tomcat is 19m long. A Herc is 23. That IS only a little larger than a modern aero-fighter.

[phreak]

actually we can do occulsion querying in OGL/DX9 (DX would need to upgrade again).  This way we can count how many pixels have been drawn in a cube with side of 2*radius of ship.  If its below a certain number, say 16 pixels total. It wouldn't be drawn.

edit:

Mik: if you lay the pilot down on his stomach, he could endure greater ge-forces.  I doubt that would factor much into the herc since its slow and doesn't turn all that well.  If were atmosphere capable (very doubtful), i'd imagine ge-forces affecting the pilot.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by PhReAk
Mik: if you lay the pilot down on his stomach, he could endure greater ge-forces.  I doubt that would factor much into the herc since its slow and doesn't turn all that well.  If were atmosphere capable (very doubtful), i'd imagine ge-forces affecting the pilot.

Um... Well... What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Not only is the relevance completely eluding me, but I have to point out that percieved g-forces are due to force vector differentials. If a Herc takes a hard turn, fires its afterburners, or does a DIVE DIVE DIVE !, the pilot is going to feel g-forces. Atmosphere doesn't matter. Being near a giant gravity well (like a planet) does, but only in so far as it adds another force vector to provide a potential differential.

[Bobboau]

FS ships fly like there were in an atmosphere, and that is a concept for fighter jets that I have had for years, I wonder why they don't put fighter pilots in a horizontal position

and I think i put my little guy too far back in the cockpit, but realy, I think it proves that the ships while huge are not grousely over sized and disproportionate (I have made a bomber for BWO (the Vanir) that I had in mind would have a crew in the cockpit aria, I took into acount scale of the ships just as I think V did on there fighters)

[Bobboau]

ok, I'm going to take a crack at ubberizeing the herc, now, I am wondering if I can make a few small changes to it, namely I want to get rid of the two useless down and to the side tube thingys, and to maintane visual balence add a second set of fins to the bottom back (like there is on the top back).
BUT I am conflicted, I am one of the purists who wants only cannon looking ubberizeations, oh, I think I'll make the cannon looking one first, and when done make the 'improoved' one, this should be a good precedent, becase I'm not likely to like the 'improovements' other people make and thus would like a cannon looking one

[Drew]

Originally posted by Bobboau
namely I want to get rid of the two useless down and to the side tube thingys, and to maintane visual balence add a second set of fins to the bottom back (like there is on the top back).

no man, if you do that, ill kill you...with this pen *clicky clicky*

those tubes are probably lat thrusters anyway. And if the herc was atmospheric capable, an extra pair of fins in that location would severely fork up its stability

[Bobboau]

ok, I'll save my medaling for after I get a good looking cannon ship

[Sandwich]

Just wanted to post a number of guidelines for remodelling that I picked up along the way:

• Make a big note of the reported size of whichever model you're doing in ModelView. Scale your reference model up to that size in whatever proggie you're using, then insert a model of some object that you've seen in person, to scale, so that you get a good feel for how large the FS ship actually is.
• When working on FS1 ships, which by and large have UV mapped textures and not tiling ones, be sure that you have the hi-res textures. Also, base your initial work off those textures, as has been said here already. Simply modelling in texture detail can go a long way.
• LODs: Generally, I'd say that the current LOD0 should be moved to LOD2, not LOD1. LOD1 (the one that's displyed in the HUD) should be a lower-poly version of the new hi-poly model that you do.
• LODs, take 2: Depending on how detailed you make LOD1, LOD0 should kick in when the model appears to occupy anything from half the screen size to the full screen. Basing the switchover on a meter length is silly, since switching a capship over to high LOD at 50 meters is useless - you can't even see most of the ship at that point.
• Don't change the basic geometery of the ships. Add and subtract greebles, extrusions, and recesses. If you can, begin your work by modifying a copy of the original LOD0.

These are recommendations, not orders. But if you don't follow them, I reserve the right to ban your arse. So there. :p


(kidding! :D)