Author Topic: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help  (Read 8897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline didli

  • 23
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Hi again everyone ! I was pretty busy for the past few days, so I didn't have enough time to begin the whole cockpit process etc. I've made some minor updates anyway, and want to submit them to you :














(Hope I'm not abusing with the number of pictures posted here ...)

Comments are welcome and absolutely necessary ;)
 
Alt-M will do the trick better for the merging :P
Thanks for this one ! I was doing "w"+"merge" before. Pretty useful shortcut ! Did someone know the one for "select/inverse" if it exists ?
6 HOURS? did you download a tutorial model and go off that!? it takes most people a month to make a model like that!
I started from scratch (exact term ?). But I made some tutorials before to try my first modeling (like the "Your_First_Animation(...)" tuto in the Blender manual or @ BlenderClan. You know, I was pretty sure for my previous post that you would had answer me something like "6 HOURS?, you're damn slow !" lol. Don't forget it's really not over yet. I think I'm gonna having a hard time with cockpit and textures ...
@didli If you don't figure what is causing that error - I'm happy to take a look at it for you.
Thanks Water, I figure it out, was a "face normals" problem.
For now I'm returning to Blender now
PS : I will release different states of the .blend files if someone want to play with it :)
"The first time I ever saw a spaceship, I shot it down."

 

Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
  • 210
  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
keep it up

we like pictures
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Raven2001

  • Machina Terra Reborn
  • 211
  • Im not the droid your looking for, move along
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help

Thanks for this one ! I was doing "w"+"merge" before. Pretty useful shortcut ! Did someone know the one for "select/inverse" if it exists ?


Usually blender has the shortcuts shown besides each tool that has one ;)

6 HOURS? did you download a tutorial model and go off that!? it takes most people a month to make a model like that!

 :wtf: PLEASE!!! Dont talk about what you dont know about... 1 month for a model?!? lol.... Only way you'd take that much time was if you only worked on it 5 mins a day

I take about 12 hours MAX for a 3k poly model. And I consider myself an experienced modeler...

Actually 6 hours is just about it for the level of detail were seeing on didlis model at the moment
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.

 

Offline takashi

  • Better than TrashMan
  • 29
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
im still shocked.

 

Offline Water

  • 210
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Don't forget it's really not over yet. I think I'm gonna having a hard time with cockpit and textures ...

You will have to balance out the amount of details you add. More details makes it harder to unwrap. After a few unwraps adding more details won't be a problem. Just don't make the first one too complex. (I'm guessing you will unwrap and texture the model)

Blender's unwrapper is good. Once the model is unwrapped, Blender can be used to paint a texture directly on the mesh. Then you just save the painted uv map. I find this useful for trying several concepts before starting up a paint program. It allows you to paint lines and texture blocks across uv boundries, something that is very hard to do with photoshop/gimp.

 

Offline Getter Robo G

  • 211
  • Elite Super Robot Pilot
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Hey Didli, can you post that version of the file ready for importing (So we don't have to wait for a cockpit?) I really like the design, and would like to see it in game as is. :)

Can blender export to .cob? I tired exporting some blender files to .3ds and nothing shows up.
"Don't think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"

"I am the one and ONLY Star Dragon..."
Proof for the noobs:  Member Search

[I'm Just an idea guy, NOT: a modeler, texturer, or coder... Word of advice, "Watch out for the ducks!"]

Robotech II - Continuing...
FS2 Trek - Snails move faster than me...
Star Blazers: Journey to Iscandar...
FS GUNDAM - The Myth lives on... :)

 

Offline Water

  • 210
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Can blender export to .cob? I tired exporting some blender files to .3ds and nothing shows up.
Yes. For simple models. Have it on layer 1 and selected before export. If that doesn't work you may need a full install of Python. For more complex models use VA[TI]'s method. http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showpost.php?p=53300&postcount=7

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

  • Member
  • 211
    • Twisted Infinities
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
I seem to have gotten the link to 3d Exploration mixed up in that post. :\
Here's the propper thing: http://sectorgame.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/3dexplor.exe
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 07:37:04 pm by Vasudan Admiral »
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities

 

Offline takashi

  • Better than TrashMan
  • 29
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
link broken

 

Offline didli

  • 23
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Cockpit Progress !
Take a peek inside ...



"Welcome Pilot !"



"Move your head"



"I can see you"



"..."



"If I'm that close ... You're dead, pilot"



3... 2... 1... Comment !  :)

Pfiouu. Had a hard time with these, cockpit and pilot (you certainly noticed that cockpit is not "closed" for the moment and that we can see inside the model, it will be done asap). I've learned a lot of new things too :)
I think I will stop with modeling before details begin to interfere with my uvmapping knowledge ... 
You can check .blend + .cob files in a zip here : http://designed2.free.fr/work_in_progress/SpSh.zip
Use it as you like and show me the result if you want to.
"The first time I ever saw a spaceship, I shot it down."

 

Offline takashi

  • Better than TrashMan
  • 29
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
nice cockpit. slight hi-polyness in  that area. also, nice overall job with noticing bad geometry and flipped normals: i see none. to put it simply: you rock!

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

  • Member
  • 211
    • Twisted Infinities
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Wow, well done! :) You're learning fast I see. (unlike certain others :rolleyes:)

Looking over the .blend now, it mostly looks great. However there are two things you'll need to change in order to get a stable mesh.

1) There are a lot of non-flat 4 vertex faces over the model - meaning one of the 4 vertices is out of alignment with the other 3. To fix this, you'll need to triangulate it: press space>edit>faces>convert to triangles (or ctrl+T)

Problem here is that now you'll have a pair of spots where the geometry has triangulated incorrectly - the front hinge-like thing on each wing. You'll see a darker patch appear showing where the problem edges and unwanted polygon are, and so all you'll need to do is delete them and place some new ones that fit.
If you need help here, I can post some screenies to help. :)

2) This is a slightly bigger issue I'm afraid. Go to the edit menu (F9), and under the Mesh section, find and un-press the "Double Sided" button. You'll notice that most of your model will remain the same, but a lot of the cockpits interior will suddenly turn black. You may have heard of the term 'polygon normal' somewhere before - what it is is basically a direction the polygon faces, pointing out of the face. The reason for this is that in games, polygons can _only_ be one-sided. You won't be able to see the face at all if you are looking parallel to the faces normal. (Check Wikipedia's article for more info.)

In this case, you have the reverse side of the polygons that form the outter hull also forming the inside of the cockpit. It worked because Blender was set to display two sides to every poly, but in game, they can only be either the outside or the inside of the hull - they can't be both.

Fixing this is a bit tricky, since you're going to have to split the parts of the cockpit you want to keep off from the rest of the mesh. This will mean him, his chair and controls will need to be selected and split (press Y) off from the mesh. I'd recommend you then move him straight up and out of the way (holding ctrl to keep it in set incriments, making it easy to reposition him later) so you can work on what's called the cockpit tub.

This is basically just a fancy indent in the outter hull mesh that will form the area the pilot sits in. Even though it will be 'inside' the hull, as far as the game is concerned it's still the outside, and so will render it correctly. You then put your pilot back there, but you can keep him and his controls separate from the main hull mesh. (keep him in the same object, you just don't need to attach him to the rest of the mesh.)


It's tricky I know, but this sorta thing will get easier with practice. Just let us know if you need more specific help with any part of this. :)
Keep it up.  :yes:
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities

 

Offline didli

  • 23
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Fixing this is a bit tricky, since you're going to have to split the parts of the cockpit you want to keep off from the rest of the mesh. This will mean him, his chair and controls will need to be selected and split (press Y) off from the mesh. I'd recommend you then move him straight up and out of the way (holding ctrl to keep it in set incriments, making it easy to reposition him later) so you can work on what's called the cockpit tub.
Hmm ... unexpected.
Just Control+N for selected annoying polygons won't do the trick ?
Like this ?


"The first time I ever saw a spaceship, I shot it down."

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

  • Member
  • 211
    • Twisted Infinities
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
No sorry - the polygons are still going to be one-sided in-game. The part you just recalculated normals for will appear properly, but any walls you have that are just one polygon thick will only show up one side. In fact, just having a look at the cockpitted model in Truespace reveals what it will look like in-game:


Have a look at the attached .blend file for a clearer idea of how cockpit tubs work. :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities

 
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Can you set blender to show one sided only?  I don't think you can in Truespace and Max it's default is onesided.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Water

  • 210
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Hmm ... unexpected.
Just Control+N for selected annoying polygons won't do the trick ?
Yes it will work - for a mesh that is correctly setup to have an inside and outside, otherwise when you try to convert it to Freespace format it will cause problems. If the inside and outside share faces, it won't work as expected.  Don't let the cockpit share faces with the hull.

The cockpit should be thought of as a cavity. It is NOT part of the inside of the mesh. It is part of the outside. If the model was real, and you had a paint brush - any part you can paint should be part of the mesh exterior.

For an example, look at the cockpit floor.
The poly face at the bottom of the chair (the floor for the pilot) --- and on the reverse side, it is part of the hull. Control+N won't be able to figure which part is inside or outside because they both join at this point.  The only real way to sort it out is to get the model geometry correct.

Best way is to make a cockpit with its own walls and floor -  and drop that in. Get rid of any parts that come from the outside through the wall into the cockpit space.

Besides some geometry issues it looks really good.   :) Add some details to the underneath part as it looks very bare.


@Scooby_Doo
Blender can set faces to be either single or double sided.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 12:17:39 am by Water »

 

Offline didli

  • 23
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Best way is to make a cockpit with its own walls and floor
Cool ! It was planned :)
I figured out the issues, thanks to you all ! Lovely forum ...
Got some work that need to be done, then I will tweak the model accordingly to the solutions I saw here.
Thanks again !
"The first time I ever saw a spaceship, I shot it down."

 
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Best way is to make a cockpit with its own walls and floor
Yup, besides you'll need to seperate the cockpit tub from the model before you convert to POF, otherwise it won't be visible from the outside.
Another good reason is then you can recycle the tub over again on a different model  :)
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

  • Member
  • 211
    • Twisted Infinities
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Yup, besides you'll need to seperate the cockpit tub from the model before you convert to POF, otherwise it won't be visible from the outside.
Not true actually. As long as the cockpit glass is the absolute last thing on the main hulls polygon list, then the cockpit interior - and this includes submodels within the cockpit - will render just fine, as will viewing parts of the hull right through the glass. :)

The only thing that may cause trouble is if you have a semi-transparent HUD in the cockpit. I think I know how to handle them so they have no transparency issues (ie, not being correctly transparent if viewed from outside the cockpit glass etc.), but I'm yet to test it.
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities

 
Re: [WIP] Fighter creation mod help
Yup, besides you'll need to seperate the cockpit tub from the model before you convert to POF, otherwise it won't be visible from the outside.
Not true actually. As long as the cockpit glass is the absolute last thing on the main hulls polygon list, then the cockpit interior - and this includes submodels within the cockpit - will render just fine, as will viewing parts of the hull right through the glass. :)

The only thing that may cause trouble is if you have a semi-transparent HUD in the cockpit. I think I know how to handle them so they have no transparency issues (ie, not being correctly transparent if viewed from outside the cockpit glass etc.), but I'm yet to test it.

Oh, I've always read it must be seperate otherwise it won't be rendered.  Course how do you make it the last thing on the list?
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"