Author Topic: What do you want this project to be?  (Read 133568 times)

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Oy, as little as I need new projects, this seems like it'd be a lot of fun. :)

I don't honestly know how much I'd be able to contribute (far too much on my plate already), but I've been slowly getting more and more tired of the old X-Wing game feel over time, hoping for something new.  Being a flight sim fan, my dream is to someday convince Lucasarts to come up with a true X-Wing sim, complete with plotting hyperspace routes, more canon tactics, and (oh my) actually manually landing your craft.  Short of that though, I've kind of been keeping a list of dislikes of the X-Wing games for a while.

First off, and I know this is a big canon argument- if you really want people to fear star destroyers like in the books, ditch the shield dome idea.  A random vulnerable exhaust port I can kind of believe.  Putting the shield projectors for the entire ship in the most vulnerable place possible is asking for problems.  The only canon example (meaning seen in the movies) of this type of thing is when the SSD in ROTJ went down from one bridge dome being taken out, and there is a much more reasonable explanation for this that I've heard many times... the idea is that those were sensor domes, located just outside the shield for better readings.  Their destruction, and the resulting explosion, caused a backwash under the bridge shield, disabling it.  They never said anything about any other shields.

This kind of goes back to the stuff about having different shield regions.  If that can be set up, then individual shield generators could protect individual important systems, like the bridge, propulsion, individual weapons banks, etc.  Those huge ships are meant to be very complex, with numerous weapons systems, backups, etc... taking out an entire subset of systems (like all the shields, or all the weapons) at once makes things far too simple. 

The most common tactic in the X-Wing book series for fighting bigger ships was very concentrated fire in very specific regions, so that groups of smaller ships could do decent damage.  If you knock out everything in one blow, like all shields, or all weapons, you can sit around at your leisure, and peck the target to death (a la X-Wing Alliance).  In contrast, if you only knock out one area, you have to plan your attack carefully to make use of that weakness without exposing yourself needlessly, and that adds a nice element of strategy to what otherwise turns into a simple "pour your weapons into it until it dies" situation.

One specific thing that I think would be interesting is to try and implement the type of missile/torpedo tracking system shown in the early X-Wing books.  I think you could let the warheads home in on a specific target, but they also had the ability to make them follow the crosshairs, similar to a laser guided bomb.  I don't even want to think about the math involved in programming a feature like that, but it might be interesting to see if it's possible.

Personally, I just recently fell in love with the BSG conversion, mainly because of the intensity of it, and how fast paced it is.  On the harder difficulty settings, you can work up a sweat just trying to survive in a heated dogfight.  I used to mod X-Wing Alliance quite a bit, and the pace never seemed right at all.  It took quite a bit of tweaking to get the pace up to something that would get you involved.  Just for kicks, I once doubled every stat for some of the fighters, and had a melee.  It was quite a rush compared with the normal settings.  So that extra speed really plays a part.

For campaigns, I would love to see the X-Wing series done.. maybe an Isard campaign, and a Zsinj one.. the only large problem I see with those is that a lot of those books' major battles took place over planets.  Now, I'm not very familiar with this game yet, so I don't have a decent idea of what's possible.. but the ground missions in those books were often very important to the story.

What I think I'd love to see most of all is a respectable scale to the missions, especially the big battles.  Again, I don't know how crazy people want to be in modeling, but I would love to see a fully modeled Death Star mission, without the standard "transition" between space and the surface, and with a decently detailed surface with lots of turrets (it looks like that's already in progress from the pics I've seen).. kind of like the Rogue Squadron games for the Gamecube (although, those are hideously detailed.. but something very good might be possible with careful LOD management I think).  One thing though.. try to minimize the obstacles in the trench.  Yes, they make the run more interesting, but I'd rather see more intense surface fire, and lots more turrets to dodge/destroy.

Same overall idea for the DSII if possible, with the whole ginormous interior modeled, if only for the reason that it hasn't been done decently in anything but Rogue Squadron.  I think that game has the best rendition of Endor ever made, even without the perfect transition.  I would really love to see an even larger scale version of that, with as many ships as you can pull off without killing the computer.  The version in XWA just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Btw... just a personal pet peeve about big missions like that... if at all possible, don't add extra "fluff" objectives to move the mission along, like "protect capship x, destroy flight group y"... many games make those types of things mission critical objectives, and you wind up failing a mission because you couldn't protect some random little ship (like Rogue Squadron.. you had to protect the Falcon for some reason.  I was under the impression that it could do that itself :P)  I'd much rather see something where the mission keeps going instead of failing, but you have to make up for the losses somehow.  For instance, say you need to protect a Mon Cal cruiser early on from a wing of Tie Bombers, and you fail.  It goes boom, but the mission keeps going.  However, later on, you won't have it's help, and it will be harder to survive when you move toward the huge fleet of ISDs.  Same type of thing for the trench run.. don't make the cover wingmen a given.. make them dependent on your performance against the fighters/turrets.  Still possible to survive, but the mission gets much harder if you're all alone. :drevil:

Really the goal at Endor was the destruction of the DSII at any cost, and most of the engagement was stalling for time, and trying to survive until the shield went down.  I think what really needs to be done to have a good Endor is give it the "gauntlet" treatment... make the first half of the mission just a grueling, intense dogfight around loads of capships, where the AI drops like flies on both sides... but you have no way of knowing when the shield will go down (if you can, randomize it in the mission about +/- 3 minutes or more, so players don't know when to expect it :)) so they can get to the really hard part.  That sort of anxious anticipation is really what made that battle good.  You can script certain things to happen, but keep it unpredictable, and fast paced.

Anyway, I hope I can find the time to help out in the future (I do lots of detailed modeling, and some texturing/mapping), but right now I'm buried in a pile of theoretical aerodynamics class work. :P  Btw, sorry this is so long... I tend to get very detailed pictures of things in my head, and love to do everything I can to see them happen.. I just wish I had the time right now.  :sigh: 

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Thanks for the ideas.  I definitely like some of those ideas, and other ones we already had planned, so fear not.  And thanks for dropping by here to say hi!
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Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Ah, you forgot...

:welcome:

Exits are to your left and right, as well as to your rear.  Unfortunately, the airlocks are rather unreliable, and the teleporter only works inbound. 

In case a fight breaks out, there are flamethrowers under every seat, however, due to budget cuts, they are only filled with water.  You could try some of the projectile weapons in the weapons closet, but most of them are broken and are more effective as bludgeons.  The Plasma Rifles are in their own closet, and only :v:olition , an admin, God, or the hyper-intelligent shade of the color blue can open them.

In case of a water landing, you can and probably will be used as a floatation device.  If you happen to be exploring the ventilation shafts for some reason (most likely because you are looking for a campaign you haven't played yet), and you come across a five-legged creature with multiple glowing red eyes, you've found Carl, our sometime resident Shivan.  Give him your lunch and back away slowly.  If he's not hungry, you might be alright.  If he is hungry, and he's in a good mood, then at least your death will be quick and relatively painless.  The SCP is all that is good.

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*takashi seems to be an alright guy, just take his advise with a huge serving of sodium chloride.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Haven't forgot, just don't have a version of my own yet.
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Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline MetalDestroyer

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
The main source of problem is the fact that the SCP engine can't handle more than 400 ships at once in a mission. Well, it is the case for the BSG: Beyond the Red Line. But, if you include to all ships subsystems like Freespace 2 ships, I will be impossible to ensure this exciting battle. Other things about the liberty, I found out that the player can't no longer go anywhere as he likes. After travelling more than a certain distance, the player ship will automaticly self-destroy. So, putting a Death Star with his real size and make some funs on it trunch would be painfull, but I remember there was a little teaser with the first Death Star from Omniscaper before he went to BSG and Star Trek mods. I don't know the radius of the DS, but i was likely be playable.

 

Offline rsaxvc

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Overall, I'd like to see the entire starwars universe playable under this game, with tons of different campaigns from the first Republic to the Yuuzhan Vong invasion and beyond as part of a unified release. However, I realize this is completely unfeasible right now-there are easily more than a hundred ships in the Star Wars universe, some of which are 75 miles wide, and I don't think we have, and may never have the resources to do this.

I think, for the time being, we should work towards a small release, maybe one fighter, one bomber, one capship for each side (Empire, Rebel), and a few levels to go along with it. This should generate enough attention to start work on covering Episodes IV to VI, which have always seemed to be the steak and potatoes of Star Wars. After that, lets get Episodes I-III. And from there, who knows?


Also, I'd like to see some customization brought to the campaigns-perhaps as you progress through a campaign, you earn credits for each kill/capship-damage, which you can use to buy new ships, buy new weapons and equipment, call in favors, and buy new paint jobs.

At a recent lanparty, some of us played BtRL for hours just doing multiplayer. So here's a question: do we want/need singleplayer? There's a lot of history there, but if we released a multiplayer-only game with loads of ships and multiplayer missions, I think it would get a lot of play.

To sum it up:
Make it customizable, make it personal.
Releases:
     Tech Demo: TIE Fighter, Bomber, Xwing, Ywing, ISD, MonCal-couple of multiplayer maps, and a single player level or two
     Stage One: Episodes 4,5,6-All of the ships from this time, A few Campaigns, But also the originals, if we're allowed to do so
     Stage Two: Episodes 1,2,3-All of the ships from this time, New Campaigns, Some from other games, if allowed to do so.
     Stage Three: New ships and campaigns as doable

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
we won't be doing vong as a part of the SWC project.

i personally think that the proper Star Wars continuity ended after the Specter of the Past/Vision of the Future set of books, and I'm willing to forgive them for ****ing up the universe with the Vong by saying that it's a comic book style alternate universe.

basically, we'll have post clone wars all the way to hand of thrawn in terms of ships. (i dont really consider the prequels canon either)


however, working from this core, i'm sure others will add prequel and later books content, but we're going to focus on the important stuff first.

10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
How about getting a campaign based on SW:ANH up & running first as a demo?  (You know, basically I figure if it works for the movies, it should work here.)  That will attract support for you.  (I hope; just gotta make it well done enough for that to attract ppl who can create content.)

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
that's why i'm working on the corellian corvette
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline rsaxvc

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
"we won't be doing vong as a part of the SWC project."
Good.

I was reading over wookiepedia, and I was interested in their ships, being made of living tissue, but I looked at the timeline. Apparently sometime between episodes 1 and 6, a giant war with a species unmentioned in the six films destroyed 1/3 of the galaxy's population. And they didn't mention a thing in the films. Gob****e.

I still like the ships, except that the only renditions now are cartoonesque, but having them in just destroys the plotline.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
He's alive!  Nice to see you RSA.  We're actually trying to hammer out what exactly we'd like to focus on for an initial release on internal, whatever it is, it will be something fairly simple with a low ship count so we can get it out soon and not have to finish an entire era's shipset first.
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Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
Just wondering, how many ships are in SW: ANH, TESB, and ROTJ, individually?  How about cumulatively?  If no one knows, that's OK, but I was wondering.

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
ANH:
  • Corellian Corvette
  • ISD Mark I
  • Millenium Falcon
  • Death Star
  • X-Wing
  • Y-Wing
  • TIE Fighter
  • Vader's TIE
  • Total: 8
  • Total Mass Produced: 5

ESB:
  • Nebulon B Frigate
  • ISD Mark II
  • Millenium Falcon
  • Executor
  • X-Wing
  • Galofree Transport
  • Slave I
  • TIE-Fighter
  • TIE-Bomber
  • Total: 9
  • Total Mass Produced: 6

ROTJ:
  • Nebulon B Frigate
  • Corellian Corvette
  • ISD Mark II
  • ISD Mark I
  • Millenium Falcon
  • Executor
  • X-Wing
  • Y-Wing
  • A-Wing
  • B-Wing
  • Galofree Transport
  • Death Star II
  • TIE-Fighter
  • TIE-Bomber
  • TIE-Interceptor
  • Lambda Class Shuttle
  • Total: 16
  • Total Mass Produced: 13

Total from All Movies: 19
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Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
So, to be able to play all three movies, you'd really only have to have 19 craft?  :eek2:

@brandx0: thx much

EDIT: Where's the sand/snow speeder (used against the AT-ATs)?

 

Offline Dysko

Re: What do you want this project to be?
EDIT: Where's the sand/snow speeder (used against the AT-ATs)?
I think that's for atmospheric-only missions.
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Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
I know, but FS:SCP has that capability.  (Although, I'm not sure how the Rebel defense & AT-ATs would be handled.)

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
I left out the snowspeeder because including that means including AT-ATs and AT-STs as well as ground troops, defences, and a whole wack of things which we really shouldn't get in to...
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Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
:( 

Oh, well, maybe after everything else is done & there's nothing else left to do... (ha!)

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
And tow cables... wrapping up the AT-ATs legs too...  Oh yeah, and stormtroopers, and getting shot down and climbing up an AT-AT with a lightsabre and slashing the bottom, and a rear gunner, and DARTH VADER!  Who can deflect lasers WITH HIS MIND, MAN!

Oh sorry, got carried away...
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Offline jr2

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Re: What do you want this project to be?
With his mind?  I thought he had a little assist from his mechanical hand.  (I don't recall seeing him deflect them except once he appeared to grab a laser bolt from Solo with his hand, hold it, and then let it go, IIRC.)