Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => The FreeSpace Port Upgrade => Topic started by: Hades on July 31, 2007, 09:32:54 pm
-
Screenshots died. Derp.
-
Is that one of those oddly shaped Shivan bombers that you sit behind and shoot at?
-
That's the Anubis. :rolleyes:
-
I think thats one of those ships where taking some artistic liberty would be welcome, to make it look more vasudanish
-
the head...I don't recall it looking like that...dunno...do someting with the head... :ick:
-
's how it looks. Oi've seen tha' thing enuff times for me teh noe wot it looks loik.
-
I think thats one of those ships where taking some artistic liberty would be welcome, to make it look more vasudanish
I like the shape of my target practice just the way it is, thankyouverymuch! PS. Make sure the big box greebles on the wings conform to the texture! Take a look at the Anubis shinemap and notice the oblong shiny patches on the wings.
-
Yes, go around the grafting of the maps.
Also remember, that Anubises are cheap crap and should look assembled hastily. Also, don't forget to put those green pipe weed things on the wings.
-
I found a hole in it and i think i know how it happend.I cannot fix it so i will start over. :mad:
-
well, when you do, give it the vasudan equivalant of a cockpit instead of that box tucked under the top fin.
-
Um, the whole point of HTL'ing a model is to give it more detail, not redesign it.
-
Sometimes the model just needs to redesigned to make it look better.
Wasn't the deimos also redesigned?
-
As well as the Hecate, and Orion, and Ravana, and Moloch, and and and... And im SURE you use all of them :rolleyes:
People like to yell about cannon when it comes to re-designs, but when their done right, they wont use anything else :P
-
I'd rather have the box rather than a Vasudan cockpit. If some have cockpits and some are just boxes it tends to make things look messed up and untidy.
-
Wasn't the deimos also redesigned?
Uh, no.
Every ship that has been detailed has pretty much been exactly the same as their counterparts except with greebling and various doohickeys.
-
It says 'redesigned' on the Wikipedia article, which is complete bull****.
-
Uh, no.
Every ship that has been detailed has pretty much been exactly the same as their counterparts except with greebling and various doohickeys.
They're not quite the same...some more than others.... :p
-
I think that all of the hi-poly models in the mediavps remain true to the original designs.
Good luck with the Anubis
-
The Dis isn't, but the original Dis was horrible.
-
The Dis isn't completely redesigned, just radically redesigned for the bettah.
-
So, which black box looking thing on the Anubis is a cockpit? Is one a radar/sensor array? Or does it take two to fly?
-
One to steer, one to pedal. They built it dirt cheap, remember?
-
You'd think the Vasudans would have issues sending not one but TWO pilots out in a tissue box
-
Well, I always thought it'd be dumb to put two pilots in, but the Anubis almost appears to have two cockpits. The other alternative (I think) is that maybe that back one is a "glass" (whatever insanely strong clear stuff the cockpits are made out of) encased sensor array. If you modeled a pilot in the front one, and in the second one made the glass transparent and put in a few sensor looking things it'd look awesome.
Then I'd kill it...
-
I dont' see two pilots on that thing... it's too small for 2 vasudans..there's would be no room left for anything else...
-
the eypoint is on the box, so i guess the bottom one is the sensor array.
-
Uh, no.
Every ship that has been detailed has pretty much been exactly the same as their counterparts except with greebling and various doohickeys.
They're not quite the same...some more than others.... :p
Yeah...it took me a while to warm up to the two giant pipes that someone added to the engine housing of the GTCv Deimos corvette... :p
-
i guess they are fuel lines.
also, who can not notice the exposed electronics of the herc? i always thought that looked weird and impractical...
-
Exposed electronics and stuff on ships that appears to not be heavily armored must be protected by something. I used to feel like Orions should explode if you nail a shot between the plates.
-
*pictures Anubis with VLLs taking out Orion*
Maybe not.
-
The Typhon didn't destroy the Eisenhower, a countermeasure did...
-
darn those countermeasures! always passing through ships hulls and taking out the captains/electronics!
captain: all beam operators, power up beam cannons! get ready, get set, FI-*hit by countermeasure*
beam operator one: OH NO! the captain!
BO 2: meh. wanna get a cup of coffee?
BO 3 & BO 1: sure
coffee operator: a countermeasure just took out the coffee maker subystem!
whole crew: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
wait...thats the fs2 scenario. oh well, beam operators are better than blob shooters.
-
The Dis isn't completely redesigned, just radically redesigned for the bettah.
the dis?
-
SFr Dis. Shivan Freighter.
-
Oh, okay, thanks.
I agree with the artistic liberty thing... the fighter is... rather ugly, and its not suprising the vesudans used these for kamikaze attempts.
-
make it curvyer. adding a bunch of square bevels on a vasudan ship is a nono.
-
adding a bunch of square bevels on a vasudan ship is a nono.
Why not? The texture has them. As an excuse, just say that its a crappy mashed together ship, rather than the care taken to construct the Horus or whatever.
-
No way. HTL is synonim of less-blocky.
-
No way. HTL is synonim of less-blocky.
HTL = Less Blocky
HTL != Complete Redesign
If the texture has it, it's canon.
-
meshed together on a crappy assembly line with leftover parts = probably blocky.
HTL = more detailed and folowing texture/concept art
Snail != HTL expert
-
To be honest, there's calls for both schools of thought, with only a couple of hundred polies on the older models, there's already an awful lot of artistic license going into what is being made. I still think it's a kind of a complement to the skill of the modellers that when people look at things like the HTL Loki they see the 'old' Loki inside it.
I'm pretty sure FS2 does backface culling when it renders anyway, which means the most polies from a 5000-count model you are going to see is about 2500, and most hardware can compute the matrix-based rotations and deformations at millions of polygons a second. To be honest, with the poly count itself, you can go pretty nuts, with detail boxes on large ships you can go totally nuts.
That said, as has been pointed out before, most fighters aren't actually in view up close for all that long, and particularly in the case of the Shivans, details are actually pretty hard to make out, so sometimes it's worth bearing in mind that just because you can do a thing, it must not always follow that you must do that thing.
Most HTLers on here do it because they love it, they aren't thinking like game designers, they are thinking like modellers, that has resulted in some of the best in-game models I have ever seen, revisualised from, in some cases, 100 poly 'blobs', I don't have problems with speed on the new computer, but I can understand, however, how people with lower-power systems might be concerned.
The trick is not in the Lod 0, oddly enough, a squad of 4 HTL bombers attacking a capital ship might contain roughly 40000 polygons in total, even a medium-level HTL card could work out the on-screen positions of those polygons faster than it could transfer the texture data, especially if the Capship uses multiple textures. Textures have considerably more impact on performance than polygon count.
Let me put it this way, in Oblivion, there are 20,000 polygon boulders, not mountains, just boulders that you can jump on.
-
meshed together on a crappy assembly line with leftover parts = probably blocky.
HTL = more detailed and folowing texture/concept art
Snail != HTL expert
What the ****? That's what I said.
Oh, and Mob, I think I misread your post. I thought you wrote "HTL is the acronym of less blocky." Sorry there.
-
No way. HTL is synonim of less-blocky.
HTL = Less Blocky
HTL != Complete Redesign
If the texture has it, it's canon.
HTL is less blocky, you say? Less blocky does not necessarily mean more detailed, I'm afraid. What if, for some obscure reason, you are HTLing a cube? How do you make that less blocky while remaining canon?
-
same question, but makes more sense since you cant HTL a cube without sacrificing its geometric cube status.
being one of the best HTL upgrades, was th herc 1 less blocky?
edit: typo fixed
-
same question, but makes more sense since you cant MTL a cube without sacrificing its geometric cube status.
being one of the best HTL upgrades, was th herc 1 less blocky?
Yes we all know you can't MTL a cube, but we're talking about HTL. :p
-
yes, i am too. :doubt:
-
The key is to make it look more real, and to do whatever that entails.
In the Anubis' case I'd recommend following Ravens advice and improving the look rather than sticking strictly to the original design. The original model has quite a cool shape, but it's been built with such a tiny poly budget that the low-polyness has been incorporated into the texture - (especially on the wings), much to the detriment of the overall look.
I'd say the best way to go about it would be to start with making the curves actually look like curves and go from there. Just try to make it look like a crappy, cheaply built ship rather than the well built low poly model it is now. ;)
-
I second VA on the crappy cheaply built ship. I believe it is also given that kind of description in the FS1 tech room and it was also used for kamikaze attacks.
-
No way. HTL is synonim of less-blocky.
Which I replied with:
HTL = Less Blocky
HTL != Complete Redesign
Because Mobius kept saying to redesign it and get rid of the blockiness of it. I couldn't be bothered to argue my point further. Really, it would have been
HTL = Less Blocky, fine okay, I agree with you, but HTL != Complete Redesign.
I second VA on the crappy cheaply built ship. I believe it is also given that kind of description in the FS1 tech room and it was also used for kamikaze attacks.
They are also used for kamikaze attacks, you know. (Tenderizer)
-
Joshua uses Snail for a kamikaze attack
-
Cobra watches while Snail gets pummeled by fighters while he moves at a Snail's pace
-
Joshua uses Snail for a kamikaze attack
It looks like the consciousness of the universe is talking in the third person again.
Cobra watches while Snail gets pummeled by fighters while he moves at a Snail's pace
No comment.
Is there any progress on this thing at all anymore?
-
Well I will get some work done today.School is a bummer.
-
Well I will get some work done today.School is a bummer.
School. ****. School.
-
:necro:
I will start on this again because I now know how to get it with textures into wings.
Can some one post the textures and pof file for it? I don't have FSport right now and I really do not want to download the port just for one fighter.
-
Et voila!
[attachment deleted by ninja]
-
great! directly found its way into my cinema4D-hangar ;)
(http://www.freespacegalaxy.de/forum/upload/anubis.jpg)
-
(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/Smileys/HLP/necrodq3.png)
I, however, actually intend to finish this. Basic smoothing is done, recessed extrusions are done, guns are done. It's also UV mapped (but I wanted to show off the geometry.) A few more things to do then it's on to the cockpits.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
-
That's it?
-
That looks like a 'high poly' fighter model from 2004. Add more detail, smooth it a it, anything to make it look less like a half-ass high poly model. The gunpoints look like nothing was changed from the retail model and there's almost no detail (seriously, model the panels already on the map).
-
As much as I'd hate to say it... I agree with Hades here. :wtf:
There are two extremes here, this style of HTL'ing and VA's Loki... I don't really think going so far in either direction is advisable.
-
Looking forward to the upgrade! :yes:
-
Smooth the wings more, bro. I can still see corners.
Clearly, you have polies to spare :P
-
Man, you guys are dicks. Most of the detail you're all talking about is present in normal maps. There's only a few 'recessed' areas on the map, and they're already modeled. Shut the hell up and take what you get, and if you don't like the outcome, fix it yourself.
-
Wings could use smoothing, that's pretty much everything this model needs.
-
Man, you guys are dicks. Most of the detail you're all talking about is present in normal maps. There's only a few 'recessed' areas on the map, and they're already modeled. Shut the hell up and take what you get, and if you don't like the outcome, fix it yourself.
When has a little constructive criticism hurt anyone.
Noone just said "IT SUCKS." We gave suggestions!
-
Man, you guys are dicks. Most of the detail you're all talking about is present in normal maps. There's only a few 'recessed' areas on the map, and they're already modeled. Shut the hell up and take what you get, and if you don't like the outcome, fix it yourself.
When has a little constructive criticism hurt anyone.
Noone just said "IT SUCKS." We gave suggestions!
To that I respond with these two posts.... both of which annoyed me a bit and it's not even my project...
That's it?
That looks like a 'high poly' fighter model from 2004. Add more detail, smooth it a it, anything to make it look less like a half-ass high poly model. The gunpoints look like nothing was changed from the retail model and there's almost no detail (seriously, model the panels already on the map).
-
Continue being annoyed, then, because I agree with Hades on this one.
-
... There are far more constructive ways to put things..
Hooray for internet anonymity!
-
See, it's like this...
Consider the HTL Myrmidon model. What, you say? You didn't know there was an HTL Myrmidon model? A lot of people don't even realize the model in the mediavps has been improved from the original.
Well this model (were it released as-is) would be just the same; nobody would even notice it had gotten upgraded, because the improvements are so insignificant. Or worse, it might actually be regarded as worse due to the fact that instead of taking inspiration from the original's textures, it's got random doodads added arbitrarily.
Edit: that second bit about the random doodads was more of a re-phrasing of what Hades said (which you so callously ignored) than an expression of my own views of it
-
See, it's like this...
Consider the HTL Myrmidon model. What, you say? You didn't know there was an HTL Myrmidon model? A lot of people don't even realize the model in the mediavps has been improved from the original.
Well this model (were it released as-is) would be just the same; nobody would even notice it had gotten upgraded, because the improvements are so insignificant. Or worse, it might actually be regarded as worse due to the fact that instead of taking inspiration from the original's textures, it's got random doodads added arbitrarily.
This.
To that I respond with these two posts.... both of which annoyed me a bit and it's not even my project...
*snip*
That looks like a 'high poly' fighter model from 2004. Add more detail, smooth it a it, anything to make it look less like a half-ass high poly model. The gunpoints look like nothing was changed from the retail model and there's almost no detail (seriously, model the panels already on the map).
To the second one read the bold. There's a suggestion, no? :P
-
I'm hesitant to model the detail on the actual texture because I think a good normal map would do a decent job. And I was planning on taking a modest approach to this anyway. Droid and Dragon are right, I do have polies to spare, and I'll try a few more things on here.
-
Oh come on fellas, not this again. It's not hard to phrase things politely. If you don't want to just generally piss off the modder, then don't try to. Snail this is mainly directed towards you due to the 'that's it?' remark, but there's an undercurrent of disrespect from some other people here too.
Now sure Galemp's a tough man - he can take it, but he also shouldn't have to. He's done more for the community than most people in this thread (myself included) combined. New modders especially though... if you give them that sort of 'constructive criticism' they won't hang round for long.
Just be friendly and respectful of other people and their work.
-
If you can't really think of anything to add that can't be on the normal map, then I'd just round out the curves a bit more, maybe add some details to the guns, but they'll probably be like 4 pixels large tough...(but anyone that opens the model can tell its definitely high poly when the gun barrels have detailing!)
Maybe put some machinery in one of the pods, and a Vasudan Pilot in the other.
You could also probably model in the "grill" like area behind the cannons so it'd look better than just a normal map.
-
I'm very sorry I acted like a dick. My actions were completely out of line and I apologize unreservedly for my deplorable actions.
-
To be fair, the original concept of this fighter doesn't lend itself to being pretty. Besides, it's a Dollar Store fighter vasudans chuck out as ML16 fodder.
I think Galemp would need to make some stylistic departures if he wants to make it look much better; extra polies to get things less angular isn't going to boost appearance that much. I'm thinking things like make the cockpits more stretched ellipsoids and less rounded bricks, or remodeled wings for a more tapered and fluid appearance.
So, it's either hardcore canon or less canon but more pretty. I'd accept anything Galemp puts out based on his judgment of where the balance should lie.
-
It would be nice if the Vasudan pilot model could be fit in there. That huge panoramic cockpit lends itself to showing off the presumably doomed Vasudan within. :)
-
That would be nice! :)
-
Just suggesting, it might still be an idea to put the detail in the model, at least a good part, as there are still tons of people who can't use normal maps.
-
No. A good main diffuse map, supplemented by hinted detail on the model is preferable. In the end, if you can't run the shaders, you probably shouldn't ask for more model detail.
-
Polies should be spent mainly on edges, 3D details (like guns) and things that can't be done with a normal map.
Flat surfaces can use normal maps, so they can stay flat with the exception of the extrusions visible from behind.
-
Better normal maps are better! This is the same geometry I just showed you, btw.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
-
Much sexier. Still ugly as ass though, due to weird fighter design :P
The join between the diagonal fins and the rear cockpit bubble looks really weird. Especially at the very front of the edge where they meet. Retail's like that too, so I don't know what to say.
-
I still feel the barrels could use some detailing, and those vents be modelled in, they look kinda...comical right now.
-
And you doubted me.
This is in the Ship Lab and in-game, using substantially the same geometry. Though I hope you guys like the cockpit and sensor dome. ;7
[attachment deleted by ninja]
-
Wow!
Very very cool. :)
-
Great stuff.
**** the haters. ;)
-
Hey VA, I'm having a little trouble getting the cockpit/glass/hull draw order correct. What's the right way to do things?
-
**** the haters. ;)
I SAID I WAS SORRY :(
-
Damn, good job.
-
That poor doomed vasudan makes all the difference :D
-
:eek:
I wants it!
-
Wow looks great Galemp!
The top bubble is the cockpit? :eek2:
I would have never guessed.
Again looks great.
VA's right though, seeing that vasudan makes all the difference! :D
-
Makes sense, looking at the pilot I don't think he would fit in the other section.
-
I'm having a little trouble getting the cockpit/glass/hull draw order correct.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Blender_to_POF_Conversions
Guess you read the part about cockpit glass already. Transparent objects have to be drawn after solid objects. And they have to be sorted so the nearest ones are drawn last. Most engines figure that out on their own, fso doesn't. By making the glass a subobject you tell the engine to draw it after the fighter.
But you have two glass parts and i guess you have to settle with one drawing order. So, one of them will always be invisible or cause rendering errors when seen through the other one.
Can any of the more knowledgeable people confirm this?
-
As far as I'm aware, yeah that's quite correct. There will always be 1 glass chunk drawn after the other, so from some view angles that won't work properly.
Looking at the second of the two pics though, it does look like the render order in relation to the hull is what's not quite right. If you've already separated both glass sections and called them detail0-trans though, send me the .blend and I'll see if I can spot anything; cos by that stage it should be working fine. :\
-
<3
-
Also look at the textures in PCS2. I found out recently that the glass (or whatever texture your using on your detail0-trans) texture also must be ordered last here as well.
-
WOW! nice fish pilot there :yes:
-
As far as I'm aware, yeah that's quite correct. There will always be 1 glass chunk drawn after the other, so from some view angles that won't work properly.
Looking at the second of the two pics though, it does look like the render order in relation to the hull is what's not quite right. If you've already separated both glass sections and called them detail0-trans though, send me the .blend and I'll see if I can spot anything; cos by that stage it should be working fine. :\
Huh? It looks fine in both pictures...
Edit: never mind, I now notice I can see out the back of the cockpit where there should be opaque stuff... Maybe that's just an aspect of the model though?
-
The same problem seems to manifest itself in the sensor array at the same time. Look for the main wings in the top screenshot. They're mysteriously not there! Does this mean that the problem isn't/can't be fixed by only having 1 glass piece?
It's like a vampire ship, except not bloodsucking. And, it's invisible through glass, and not mirrors.
-
Hooray, it's been fixed! Everything draws in the right order now. Look for the Anubis in the next version of the FSPort Media VPs!
-
We need an Apollo first. :nervous:
-
Hooray, it's been fixed! Everything draws in the right order now. Look for the Anubis in the next version of the FSPort Media VPs!
huzzah
-
We need an Apollo first. :nervous:
Our current one isn't that bad tbh. Look 1 thread down.
-
Hooray, it's been fixed! Everything draws in the right order now. Look for the Anubis in the next version of the FSPort Media VPs!
How did you fix it in the end?
-
I followed the instructions. :nervous:
I separated the glass and the cockpit out into their own subobjects, and named them and set up the hierarchy appropriately. Worked just fine.
Fixed the squadron insignia distortion too, while I was at it.
-
I followed the instructions. :nervous:
Were the reactor core detonators a piece of junk?
-
lol Snail. I thought the exact same thing when reading Galemp's post, then saw that you posted it already.
-
Are you going to work a bit on the Jackal, too? :)
-
I'm pretty sure that he is way ahead of you.