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Should veteran comments be banned from discussing mods?

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General Battuta:
Hey guys,

TopAce has a suggestion on the wiki that I would like a ruling on. The point of contention is this veteran comment by Titan from 2008, on the Manticore article.


--- Quote ---I actually find this and the Aeshma hard to hit, for some strange reason. They are at the same time slower than a bomber and as agile as a fighter to me. If you've ever played the Knossos mission in BP, you'll know how deadly an attack run by a wing of these can be. And watch out, they tend to be loaded with Hornets. Break them up before your screen fills with yellow streaks.
--- End quote ---

TopAce would like to remove the sentence "If you've ever played the Knossos mission in BP, you'll know how deadly an attack run by a wing of these can be." His original reasoning was 'shameless BP advertising'.

I reverted it on the grounds that this was a veteran comment from 2008 by a non-BP team member and couldn't be taken as advertising.

TopAce would again like to remove the sentence on  the grounds that "People should stop pretending that BP was the first that did everything sensible. It isn't. Campaigns have used Basilisks with Hornets before, despite the BP fanbase's selective beliefs."

I agree with the broad point that people should pay attention to mods other than BP! However, I don't think it's up to us to decide what individual users write in their veteran comments, beyond the general standards set out under VC policy.

I suppose I'd also contest the point that Titan is a 'BP fan' with 'selective beliefs' rather than an average user picking out a memorable mission where Basilisks were notoriously tough to deal with.

If we are going to regulate how independent users discuss mods in veteran comments, I would like a firm policy ruling. Which one of these should we enforce?


* No one should discuss Blue Planet in veteran comments outside of BP-specific articles. Other mods are fine to discuss.
* No one should discuss any mod in veteran comments outside of those specific to that mod.
* Users are free to discuss any mod in veteran comments, as long as the comment doesn't violate general VC policy.
My personal opinion is that users are free to discuss mods. This is a modding community. While I'd be upset if the wiki were used to discuss BP and nothing else, I don't think it's up to us to police which mods people are interested in.

Thoughts?

Zacam:
I see nothing wrong with commentary including adjuncts to proper mod usage. (No saying "Mod X sucked at using this ship" for example).

I personally only ever give Retail based commentary on Retail ships. However, that's a personal preference of mine, but nothing that should be a universal policy.

As mentioned by The E in IRC: Any mod that uses a retail ship (with or without retail characteristics but that distinction is my own) in a memorable way should be admissible.

Some mods can adjust the behaviours of retail ships (such as: Activating Glide and what not) but that doesn't and shouldn't invalidate the commentary of the ship in general.

NGTM-1R:
If we were discussing something that involved gameplay changes I would agree to remove it. We removed a number of comments that involved reminders or advice to FRED users on changing armaments of ships on this grounds. (Which I think was a bad decision, but oh well.) In this case, however, I can't help but think this is sour grapes from TopAce, as the commentary mentions BP, but the ship is using a Retail AI and a Retail loadout.

Any mod that is not altering the behavior (AI), statistics, or loadout of the ship should be useable as an example of what the ship can do. (This would disallow WiH for AI-ness and armor-table shenanigans that are usually occurring, but not AoA as released and which the comment is in reference to.)

An4ximandros:
As an alternate suggestion, how about making mirror pages for common ships used on various mods and have comments related to the mods restricted to those pages?

Example: Manticore (Retail) ---> Manticore (Blue Planet) - Manticore (Inferno) - Manticore (*Mod Name*)

General Battuta:

--- Quote from: An4ximandros on January 10, 2013, 02:26:32 pm ---As an alternate suggestion, how about making mirror pages for common ships used on various mods and have comments related to the mods restricted to those pages?

Example: Manticore (Retail) ---> Manticore (Blue Planet) - Manticore (Inferno) - Manticore (*Mod Name*)

--- End quote ---

I would think this was a good idea if the mod changed anything about the ship, but in this case it doesn't.

It feels like the issue here is not so much 'it's a comment about a mod' as 'it's a comment about Blue Planet'. I would love to see discussion of all kinds of mods in the veteran comments, but I can't single-handedly make that happen, and I don't think it's up to us to enforce quotas.

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