Author Topic: General forum game discussion  (Read 44754 times)

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Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
I like Enoich's answer, so let me just quote this for truth:

Quoted for truth. Witness me!

Quote
(Starbases will need a durability buff)
Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: General forum game discussion
Quote
(Starbases will need a durability buff)
Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
I'm pretty sure our starbase sat idle the whole turn doing nothing and being as irrelevant as possible. Unless of course the CRF decided to instablow it for some reason...
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
Calling it now. It fired ONE shot.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Now I'm really hoping it does nothing more than that


Let's go find out~
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Quote
(Starbases will need a durability buff)
Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
I'm pretty sure our starbase sat idle the whole turn doing nothing and being as irrelevant as possible. Unless of course the CRF decided to instablow it for some reason...

Considering the discussion in CRF forum proceeded from this:

Quote from: 0rph3u5
Damge averages for all combatants (R0 /1 /2 /3)

DD Garison (S: 180 + H: 440) : 269 / 310 / 128 / 128
3rd DD (S: 246 + H: 677): 579 / 434,4 / 70,4 / -

Starbase (S: 50 + H: 300): 122 / 122 / 50 / -


2nd CRF (S: 175 + H: 670): 346 / 343,35 / 343,35 / -
3rd CRF (S: 177 + H: 604): 326,8 / 379,6 / 291,6 / -


Remember these are averages and they don't factor in fire control (applies only point defense and DD secondary batteries anyway) and the evasion values...

- the 2nd CRF actually has enough firepower to solo the starbase in the R1-2 band; the 3rd can only do that in the R1 band (unless Lady Luck really hates us)
- 2nd and 3rd combined can't destroy the 3rd DD but would reduce it about 22-25% of its health (again without Luck factored in); if we manage to shoot first there we can clip their firepower significantly
- 2nd and 3rd conbined can destroy the Garison fleet

Yeah Starbases might have a problem of being relevant

And the .gif really is a Horray for Valor :D

EDIT: I just noticed a grammar mistake that went unnoticed the entire week and may have subtly influenced our decision making... where it reads "2nd and 3rd combined can't destroy the 3rd DD but would reduce it about 22-25% of its health" it should reat "reduce it TO about 22-25% of its healt"
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 01:04:52 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
Maybe instead of changing the Starbase stats, you could change something else. Maybe cut out the shipyard phase and just have it cost 2500/2500 to build one. Or have Starbases give an economic boost to the planet.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Hold on guys, we're experiencing a bit of an Admiral breakdown
Right now I have this mental image of Admiral MS leaning on his desk, both hands in his hair going "None of these rules make sense! And every time Spoon answers one of my questions, things get worse!:lol:

(I'm sorry Admiral MS, for writing confusing rules)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
"None of these rules make sense! And every time Spoon answers one of my questions, things get worse!:lol:

(I'm sorry Admiral MS, for writing confusing rules)

I am a Veteran of 4 Tabletop Wargames (Games Workshops's Warhammer 40k, Corvus Belli's Infinity, as well as FFG's Star Wars: X-Wing and Star Wars: Armada) and several RPG-systems. I think I can safely say, this game isn't that bad when it comes to the rules (even without factoring in that it is still in testing), I mean they all fit on less than 15 pages and have to little to no cross referencing, no special probability "things"...

That the starbase rules and the tech-trees are not with the main rule-set in one place may be a bit problematic

Don't give up yet, Spoon  :yes:
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: General forum game discussion
So I spent the week figuring out that I misinterpreted a rule, that a rule was confusing, incomplete or outright depreceated. Everytime I cobbled together another tactic just to see it fall apart again next day. Screw starbases, screw Fire on any Target and screw fleet detachment rules. And I probably forgot something...

Thinking about it there is something else I need answered: What happens to the starbase and garrison if the invasion fleet reaches the drop point? Do they switch sides or do they at least fight to the end?

@0rph3u5
Though realizing several times that the very specific idea or rule you based your tactic on doesn't work for whatever reason, including being told by Spoon 2 hours ago that my orders are partially invalid, is just annoying after spending quite some time figuring out what to do. Even more so when it gets worse every time to the point where everything leads to destruction and a certain loss next tactical turn as long as the CRF does it right. At the beginning I thought that the situation is not so far away from being equal...
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
I think the rules could do with cleaning up before the main game. There's all this info scattered about all over the place. Bring it all into one new thread I would advise before the main game.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: General forum game discussion
needs a professionally produced PDF in 5 colours
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
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Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
@0rph3u5
Though realizing several times that the very specific idea or rule you based your tactic on doesn't work for whatever reason, including being told by Spoon 2 hours ago that my orders are partially invalid, is just annoying after spending quite some time figuring out what to do. Even more so when it gets worse every time to the point where everything leads to destruction and a certain loss next tactical turn as long as the CRF does it right. At the beginning I thought that the situation is not so far away from being equal...

I know what you say ... I do know that situation from experience (both suffering through it and inflicting it on others during tournament prep)... Best in this situation is to remember you are still playing a game, so there is next to nothing at stake if something doesn't work out quite right.

As for specificity in tactics, it helps to remember that your opponent is only human and will get things wrong just as you do, so don't sweat having THE winning strategy that plays with every aspect in the game - at the least have a simple one that works, at best have one that your opponent can't impact. Most of the time you will land between these two anyway, simply by the fact neither play is a mind reader and only can do so much.

EDIT: Just remember, any plan you make has to better than this:

I think the rules could do with cleaning up before the main game. There's all this info scattered about all over the place. Bring it all into one new thread I would advise before the main game.

Well, the current situation is a result of gensis of the rules ... I mean Spoon basically turned the Tactical combat inside out on "Launch Day" (too bad I recently deleted the draft of the rules I got three weeks before the test game started...).

And on the plus side, it is not that bad since Spoon is acutally here and can answer any questions in little time (or not) - so we don't have to "make due" in the face of ambiguity.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 03:17:11 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
About the rules I'm more thinking about new players joining in than the ones in the game right now. And I've never been afraid to ask Spoon questions. For me personally it wouldn't matter all that much, but I think it will be of value for new players and attracting new players.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Unforunately, photoshop doesn't want to change the text/numbers on the proper frame, it just seems to change it for all the frames starting from the first one. So don't be suprised when your fleet has a seemingly lower starting strength than its suppose to have. That's just the end result of things.

New turn is up (kind of a heavy one)

I'm totally open for suggestions on how to make everything better/more clear.
One thing I've been meaning to do for like 2 weeks now is compressing all the different weapons a fleet can have into a more streamlined approach. Which should make the information presented a lot more clearly. I started at one point, but then it looked like it was going to be a bit more involved than I figured at first. It'll probably remove the fleets consisting of indiviual ships and the 'build your own fleet type' project.

Well, the current situation is a result of gensis of the rules ... I mean Spoon basically turned the Tactical combat inside out on "Launch Day" (too bad I recently deleted the draft of the rules I got three weeks before the test game started...).
True.

Thinking about it there is something else I need answered: What happens to the starbase and garrison if the invasion fleet reaches the drop point? Do they switch sides or do they at least fight to the end?
They won't just magically switch sides, they'll fight till the end (for as short as that has been, so far :p )
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Congratulations to the Sol Forces! A Fight, A Victory!

« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 04:26:49 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
Called it  :p

Well, I can't really discuss streamlining atm (staggering off to bed), but I'll be glad to talk about it tomorrow.

Frankly, as a sidenote, I'm reasonably happy with how things turned out in Uuni (Capital not so much). We had made some considerably more worrying predictions for the CRF fleets...  :nervous:
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
Also, Spoon, in the interest of fair play, can you please check the money and resources that the various factions have spent/ acquired this turn? I'm especially looking at Resources for the DD, which somehow don't add up for me, but A) I might be wrong and B) There might be other mistakes...
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Called it  :p
[...]
Frankly, as a sidenote, I'm reasonably happy with how things turned out in Uuni (Capital not so much). We had made some considerably more worrying predictions for the CRF fleets...  :nervous:

What did you expect? - Due to it's ability to fire multiple times the Starbase was quite a risk to keep around. And since darting into/out of combat is currently the CRF's only strength over the DD we need the space to maneuver in.

But in a related subject, I am very glad you moved the Garrison Fleet :D If you had not, the 3rd CRF would probably attacked it as part of the Valor order (because how Fire at Will is worded)... and that had not gone as well as the attack on the Starbase


EDIT: Why did I get the Inspiring Trait? I am the only Admiral to date with the loss of a fleet to his name, that's hardly inspiring stuff...
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
EDIT: Why did I get the Inspiring Trait? I am the only Admiral to date with the loss of a fleet to his name, that's hardly inspiring stuff...
Starbase kill.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: General forum game discussion
aiiieeeeee!

The multi-frame pic is cool; but also irritating that I can't control which frame it's on.  I like to step through things at a slower pace; and I need to wait ages to see the final frame again to check I've got the position of all fleets ready for the next turn :)
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