[Jeff Vader]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_71.89.html

[colecampbell666]

Old...graphics card...oh boy...

Update...I haven't a clue how to do that actually....

Bit of clarification.

The operating system is, to simplify, the base program of your computer. It makes the shiny graphics you see. Programs, like FS, run on top of the OS. the file that your PC uses to run your graphics card is called a driver (a driver can be used to run any hardware). The manufacturer of your graphics card releases periodic updates for this driver, that makes it run faster, fixes bugs, etc. Basically you're installing a new driver for your video card, to fix a bug with FS2.

[GTSVA]

So...buy a new graphics card...?

My computer is old anyway...

[Jeff Vader]

Buy a new graphics card or a whole new computer; the simple options. Or for the time being, just play without the mediavps. I'd guess that even if you managed to get things working with new drivers, that GeForce would cry in pain with the 3.6.10 Betas.

[GTSVA]

Sigh...that ends my problem...for now....Thanks for all your help guys...

[chief1983]

Just to double check, when you enabled the mediavps, did you disable all of the other checkboxes under graphics, experimental, and troubleshooting?

[GTSVA]

Am I supposed to do that?

I'll try it now...

[chief1983]

Well the texture thing sounds like an issue with one of the maps.  Besides the base map, every other texture on a ship is new since retail.  So if you disable shine, glow, environmental, etc maps, you can tell if it's a problem with rendering what's essentially the same as retail, except for possibly different file formats, or if it's a problem with one of the other newer maps.  It sounds like a shine issue but that's just a completely random guess.

[GTSVA]

Well, it didn't work..but, I saw that when I move the MV_Assets out of the folder, the ships and stars become visible, but my planets, afterburner and primary weapons are still white. Oh well...

[chief1983]

Well DDS textures are used quite heavily, but the Geforce2 is supposed to be DX7 compliant, and DX7 is when DDS support came around.  Otherwise I don't know how mvp diffuse maps differ from retail ones, other than being simply larger.  That may be the issue though, the textures may be too large for the card, or there may be too many.

[MP-Ryan]

Having run that very same card with the 3.6.8Z mediavps, maybe I can add a little bit to the discussion.

It's not a DX7 incompatibility, at least not with the older mediaVPs.  Those ran fine.  However, that particular card will get its ass kicked trying to run the mediaVPs for any length of time, so you're better to use an FSOpen build without the visual enhancements to begin with.

However, the GF2 MX series does display DDS textures just fine.

[GTSVA]

Soooooo now what?   

[colecampbell666]

I think I've found the problem with my freaky Loki. This seems to also happen with the Zeus, and what do these have in common? VA. I think they have a botched conversion job.

[colecampbell666]

Screenies of glitches. Don't mind the inverted colors, it's another 3.6.10 bug.

The Faustus is half missing.

The Loki has a botched texture or something.





Zeus is the same.


With the Loki it's hard to notice the damage when not ingame, but it's present at the snout of the fighter.

[blowfish]

OK OK!! Enough images!  That looks like a graphics bug  that isn't caused by these specific VPs.  Are your drivers updated?  Are you running OpenGL?  Do you get the same error across multiple builds?

EDIT: And please use [lvlshot] tags as well.

[Herra Tohtori]

Even if it's a model specific issue, it may not mean that something is "wrong" per ce in the models - it just might mean that these models are built in a way that your system/graphics card or driver does not understand completely.

If the issue is indeed model-specific, it does of course mean that there is something different in the models that don't render correctly, as opposed to models that work normally. Ideally, of course, a model that works on one system should work similarly on all systems (with capacity to use the models in the first place). But even then, it might not be error in the model but error in the way the GPU or it's driver handles the slightly different data. Don't know what makes these models different... 3dMax's POF conversion plugin vs PCS? Another place in the conversion path? Some specific modelling program used? It could be any of a number of things, but it doesn't inherently mean that the model is "broken" or that the conversion is botched, especially as they work properly on majority of systems. It just means that for whatever reason, these models don't work correctly with your system (GPU), and the fault being in models is just one possibility.

It is of course possible that newer GPU's and their drivers might just have better error recovery features that fix the problems in the model, but in this case I would be inclined to guesstimate that the difference in models is not the actual reason for this problem manifesting on your PC.

One thing that has quite possibly been asked before, I don't remember and I won't be checking through the thread - have you emptied all the ../FreeSpace2/data/cache and ../<mod>/data/cache directories? It might be a corrupt cached model file... If you have, already received this advice before and it didn't help, just disregard this latest paragraph.

[colecampbell666]

I thought about the cache, but those didn't seem like the normal symptoms. Now the Faustus is showing normally (a.k.a all there) but with the standard corrupt cache symptoms.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Colecampbell: there is no botched conversion, textures or normal map in any way shape or form on the loki or zeus. Given the amount of testing I do on each model I make, I can be absolutely certain of that. I would bet that Cobra is actually quite right here - these errors are being caused by a crappy graphics card and/or drivers.

Notice how the errors you're seeing are not the same on either side of the loki? That right away means it can't possibly be the maps because the model uses the same part of the maps on either side. You can also sometimes see the textures correctly applied beneath the errors meaning it isn't a UV mapping data error, and I know the smoothing is neither broken nor could do that kind of thing anyway.

What I do see in your screens is a massive amount of blue. Blue impact particles, blue glowmaps on the cargo, blue enemy targetting brackets, blue enemy names in the escort list, blue all over the loki where red should be right down to blue left side glowpoints, blue buttons in the interface and even hints of blue in much of the rest of the interface art. Seeing as all of these colours SHOULD be red or redish, I am quite certain the problem is at your end and is not a data problem.

And finally - if as you say the faustus is sometimes showing correctly and sometimes not, how can that be a problem with the model? No, you're definitely seeing non data and probably non FSO related bugs.

[blackhole]

Even if it's a model specific issue, it may not mean that something is "wrong" per ce in the models - it just might mean that these models are built in a way that your system/graphics card or driver does not understand completely.

If the issue is indeed model-specific, it does of course mean that there is something different in the models that don't render correctly, as opposed to models that work normally. Ideally, of course, a model that works on one system should work similarly on all systems (with capacity to use the models in the first place). But even then, it might not be error in the model but error in the way the GPU or it's driver handles the slightly different data. Don't know what makes these models different... 3dMax's POF conversion plugin vs PCS? Another place in the conversion path? Some specific modelling program used? It could be any of a number of things, but it doesn't inherently mean that the model is "broken" or that the conversion is botched, especially as they work properly on majority of systems. It just means that for whatever reason, these models don't work correctly with your system (GPU), and the fault being in models is just one possibility.

It is of course possible that newer GPU's and their drivers might just have better error recovery features that fix the problems in the model, but in this case I would be inclined to guesstimate that the difference in models is not the actual reason for this problem manifesting on your PC.

NO. A graphics driver, by definition, cannot fix a broken model, because even if a model is broken, it will be sent to the graphics driver as a series of triangles and textures. There is no possible way for the graphics driver to even attempt to "fix" a broken model because a broken model is declared "broken" by a human, not a machine. Hence why PCS turns your model into a bunch of gibberish when it doesn't like your file, but still renders it fine.

Any and all driver problems must affect all models being rendered, because it doesn't know what a model is. If a single model is acting up, its a problem with the game engine not reading the model data correctly, not the driver, except for textures. Assuming that model satisfies a unique set of criteria for the type of compression and format of texturing that it is using, it is technically possible for there to only be one model that is screwed up by the driver. However, this has nothing to do with how the model is built, because all of the models are the same format, and even then an error in the actual model has to be the fault of the graphics engine, not the driver.

[Jeff Vader]

Soooooo now what?   

Quite easy, my good man. Either
a) Play without the MediaVPs (recommended) or
b) Update your graphics card's drivers, which isn't all that rocket science, I might add.