Author Topic: 3.6.10 Media VPs Discussion Thread  (Read 303006 times)

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Offline Slime

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I agree with that. These new subspace effects look more FreeSpacey than the ones in the previous mediavps.

I agree to agree also. Not only is the new warp effect amazing in quality, it's the first MVP warp effect in some time that is very faithful to the original effect/concept. It's good to finally see something rivalling the retail cutscene s-vortexes. Great job fixing all the problems with the beams, especially the shivan ones are excellent now.

It was worth the wait. FSU never ceases to impress.


  

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Was it really necessary to remove all the "a" in texture names? :wtf:
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Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Was it really necessary to remove all the "a" in texture names? :wtf:

Are you freakin serious? In either case, the answer is yes.
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
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Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
But that kills many custom models using the old texture names... :(
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Was it really necessary to remove all the "a" in texture names? :wtf:

The a's were a remnant of the old retail mipmapping system where each LOD had a corresponding texture - shipA, shipB, shipC etc. This kind of mipmapping is a lot worse than texture mipmapping, which is done with the DDS textures, so LOD's don't need their own textures any more, so the lettering is not necessary any more and if it's left there it'll just work as catalyst for confusion for new modders and old ones.

So yes, it was necessary to remove the letter indexing where it isn't needed.

Is there something particular that this change breaks that can't be changed by texture name reassignment in PCS2?
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Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Then they should have included those textures. The chances that a ship get's high poly-fied from one version to the other is bound to happen. So, anyone with custom Ulysses fighters should have had thier own textures.

But there is no intention for cruelty here. A compatibility pack of sorts is being made. But It will not have every texture renamed to suit a convention that is no longer required, only to assist with what has been removed in favor of what is new.
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Is there something particular that this change breaks that can't be changed by texture name reassignment in PCS2?

The main issue would be to open model lifes with PCS2 and make proper changes to texture names. I wonder how it's possible to edit so many files and re-release them.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 09:41:09 am by Mobius »
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Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
Oh, you mean, like we did?
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I was refering to the countless custom ships, made by community modellers, which didn't end up in the Media VPs.
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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs

OK, I FINALLY got the MOD working. My advise to anyone who is using a X1600, X1800 and X1900 series ATI cards to disable GLSL (shader) support as Chief explained. (thanks for that Chief!) I was able to turn on everything else, but make sure you have that GLSL turned off in the Troubleshoot section.

Now back to Teeth of the Tiger...
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Offline Galemp

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
That's the responsibility of whoever's going to be using them, of course.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I was refering to the countless custom ships, made by community modellers, which didn't end up in the Media VPs.

Well, I do that to all of them anyway. It only takes a few seconds per ship, though it does get repetitive.
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Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I was refering to the countless custom ships, made by community modellers, which didn't end up in the Media VPs.

And they are not in the mediavp's because they are not retail ships. As they are custom ships they probably already have (or should have) custom textures, yes?? And if it a mission mod that simply loads retail ship name, nothing breaks.

And so far, with every Campaign that was installed with The Installer that relies on just the mediavp's, there has not yet been a single occurrence of a problem that I have encountered yet. Why is that? Because things like that get checked. Which is one of the reasons why the release took as long as it did.

If you would like to support some examples, please feel free. And bear in mind, we have no issue with providing assistance to any mod maker who end's up with broken work because of the mediavp's. But it had best be because of the mediavp's and because they politely asked for assistance in a reasonable and intelligent fashion.
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"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I just realized that the log is not correct. It is because when it freezes, I always end the process in task manager and the log never updates, but I have no choice but to end it that way. I have no old vps in there and I have the mediavps selected as a mod.

Uh....say WHAT?

The log will always update to some degree just by launch of the game. If you can make it to the cutscene or pilot select screen, the log updates. Even on a core fatal crash before then, it always updates. It just won't continue past where it crashes.

Now, I am all for keeping an open mind, but I don't let the breeze whistle past my ears. Just sayin.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
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"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I was refering to the countless custom ships, made by community modellers, which didn't end up in the Media VPs.

And they are not in the mediavp's because they are not retail ships. As they are custom ships they probably already have (or should have) custom textures, yes?? And if it a mission mod that simply loads retail ship name, nothing breaks.

The FSU team should, in fact, work on the Media VPs and forget about custom ships. Upgrading them is up to their creators.

I wouldn't give for sure that custom ships use custom textures, however. They usually use retail textures. I guess it's easier for a modeller to use a texture the FSU upgrades continuously rather than create an exclusive texture that will be refered to as trash after 2+ years.

I can only imagine what is going to happen to INFR1...fortunately, future INF releases will all be standalone... :nervous:
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Offline blowfish

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
You know, the textures have been named that way since the betas...

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
You know, the textures have been named that way since the betas...

*chuckles* I was going to say something, but that has too much cool in it for me to follow up on.
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"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs

The FSU team should, in fact, work on the Media VPs and forget about custom ships. Upgrading them is up to their creators.

Which is exactly what we do as FSU members. We have other stuff to do as well, but within the FSUpgrade project, we upgrade materials that appeared on the retail. Other stuff is in FS Modding and respective projects.

Quote
I wouldn't give for sure that custom ships use custom textures, however. They usually use retail textures. I guess it's easier for a modeller to use a texture the FSU upgrades continuously rather than create an exclusive texture that will be refered to as trash after 2+ years.

I can only imagine what is going to happen to INFR1...fortunately, future INF releases will all be standalone... :nervous:

Well anything that uses retail texture names will be able to fallback to the retail PCX textures. They aren't going anywhere from the retail VP's, so it won't break things, just make them a bit hideous. Custom models should use their own textures instead of slaving themselves to either retail or mediavps. If someone has had enough lack of foresight to do that while relying on mediaVP's, it's their fault that their stuff is failing.

Inferno is so old that it was made to work with retail, so it's more understandable if there are ships that use retail textures rather than dedicated ones - especially considering tiles - but otherwise a ship that doesn't appear in retail should use it's own texture... with it's own texture name.

Personally I think any mod should function without the MediaVP's and preferably be compatible with them.


And, yes. If you had a problem with the texture name change process, the betas have been out for a long time. A long time. Although since them, the amounts of "a"'s might have reduced further, but not by much.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
You can think as you want, but it doesn't matter now since I found that by disabling GLSL shader support, the problem is fixed. But I worry that disabling it makes the detail go down. It seemed to iin the tech database. That is not acceptable. I don't want that. What is the point of even using these new vps if I can't use them to the fullest? It must be the fact that I have Radeon. I hope there will be a way to fix this or I won't bother playing FS if it is going to sacrifice most of the detail.


I feel your pain but your attitude sucks.

It is not our fault that your hardware fails what it should be capable of doing. Save the fire and brimstone for customer complaints for ATi.

As to whether or not disabling GLSL reduces detail - it doesn't really. It reduces lighting quality by reverting to fixed render pipeline instead of using shaders for lighting, so you don't get normal maps and the overall quality of lighting is a bit lower than with the shaders. And previous mediaVP's (not counting the 3.6.10 Beta) never had any normal maps, so it isn't exactly a reduction in quality either way.

You can still use all the new models, maps and effects though, so it does make sense to use the new MediaVP's. You don't have to, though, if it is so frustrating to know that your hardware should be able to do more. It is your choice, but please stop polluting this thread with vitriolic comments, they are misplaced here.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 02:06:37 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: RELEASE: 3.6.10 Media VPs
I won't bother playing FS if it is going to sacrifice most of the detail.
I'm increasingly worried that modern people are shallow and fail to see the inner beauty.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
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01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
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01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
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15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
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15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

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11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []