Author Topic: Final verdict on Windows 10?  (Read 15755 times)

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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Heh, I was thinking of bumping this myself.  I was procrastinating until close to the free offer expiration, and after a few aborted attempts of doing things the hard way and trying to clone my 7 partition (note to world: don't cancel a partition resize while it's in progress, unless you're an idiot like me), I finally just wised up and threw a fresh install on a clean partition.  And my initial reaction is quite honestly...ewww.  That live-tile-infected Start menu is easily one of the ugliest UI elements I have ever seen, and I love that how even after you delete everything on there, you actually have less control over the normal-looking remainder than you did in 7.  I also love the bizarre distinction between "modern apps" (i.e. babby's first programs) and normally-installed applications, which is the exact sort of settings duplication that I thought pretty much everyone *****ed about in 8.  Also of note is how I turned off every telemetry-related option that came up during installation, yet have already found a few of them magically switched back on in places like Windows Update.  And I'm still waiting for someone to explain how completely-flat solid colors constitute a more attractive interface than Aero did.  If I ever do wind up using this as my primary OS, I'm going to need to install Classic Shell to keep my sanity, that's for damn sure.

(I guess I can give it props for how quickly it starts up, though that's immediately tempered by explorer.exe already hanging a few times.  The more things change...)

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Did you try running those games in compat mode?


Also,

http://www.windowsxlive.net/uxtheme-multi-patcher/

for themes

and

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

for privacy settings

I tried that and several other programs like it, but the problem is that most theme patchers developed for a particular version of 10 (preview, RTM, TH2 or RS1) no longer work on more recent versions.

The vanilla compatibility modes don't work in most cases, and has other side effects. There may be some combination of settings/tweaks that make things work, but is time consuming to find for every game. I found that Unreal 2 and UT2004 work if you disable a specific setting in the ini, and Re-Volt strangely works if you delete one dll file, but many other games are still broken.

 
Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
If you don't like the start menu, which I don't think is ugly at all, though I dislike the overall lack of settings for it, get Classic Shell, like you probably already had for Win8/8.1. I'm probably going to do that soon, once I'm used to how the standard Win10 Start menu works, as I updated to stay current on OSes for my chosen career field of IT.

EDIT: whoops. Missed that you went straight from Win7, Mongoose. Still, get Classic Shell since you don't like the Win10 start menu.
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Offline Cyker

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
My biggest gripe with Win10 is the whole UI.

Ignoring the fact that it's ugly and it's very hard to tell what is a button and what is a label with a different coloured background sometimes because everything is flat, I just find the whole interface rage-inducing.

Settings are scattered all over the place AND split between two different control panels. It is practically impossible to find settings unless you already know where they are - I have to use the search thing most of the time to locate settings that would just be 2 or 3 clicks because they are so hidden and/or put under really strange categories.

And then there's stuff like the startmenu and tiles - How the hell do you edit it?! It took me half an hour to figure out where the Startup menus had gone and I still haven't figured out a quick and easy way to get to them even now when I know where they are!

Under the hood there have been some nice improvements - Fake-shutdown aside, it generally feels more responsive which is impressive given how many more services it loads on boot.

I must admit tho', until I'm forced to by compatibility reasons I will be avoiding it as it literally gain nothing from upgrading other than being forced to jump through many hoops to make the UI less painful to use.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
I wonder if a non-terrible new version will come around before compatibility becomes a problem like 7 did for XP people avoiding vista.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
My biggest gripe with Win10 is the whole UI.

Ignoring the fact that it's ugly and it's very hard to tell what is a button and what is a label with a different coloured background sometimes because everything is flat, I just find the whole interface rage-inducing.

Settings are scattered all over the place AND split between two different control panels. It is practically impossible to find settings unless you already know where they are - I have to use the search thing most of the time to locate settings that would just be 2 or 3 clicks because they are so hidden and/or put under really strange categories.

And then there's stuff like the startmenu and tiles - How the hell do you edit it?! It took me half an hour to figure out where the Startup menus had gone and I still haven't figured out a quick and easy way to get to them even now when I know where they are!

Under the hood there have been some nice improvements - Fake-shutdown aside, it generally feels more responsive which is impressive given how many more services it loads on boot.

I must admit tho', until I'm forced to by compatibility reasons I will be avoiding it as it literally gain nothing from upgrading other than being forced to jump through many hoops to make the UI less painful to use.

Classic Shell does more than just the Start Menu.  It's not everything, but it does bring back some old elements to Windows Explorer as well.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Yes, Classic Shell is a must-have and has lots of great features. I use a 98/2000 style menu without any tiles and with the smoke skin.

I finally got custom themes working after several hours of trying different hacks (I'm using this theme modified with brighter text and with these steps). Things look much nicer now. I actually find 10 a bit rough and unpolished compared to 8.1. When I try to reboot, a "program manager" gets stuck and there are occasional errors that a "host process has stopped working," apparently common problems. The multiple control panels are annoying, but many important settings are not exposed in either one anyway and are only in the registry or in some cases the GodMode panel. There is also the big RS1 update coming on August 2. I have auto-updates off but it reportedly makes the theme patching process easier and like how it used to be, but may break other things.

I also managed to fix several more DX8 games. The vsync problem was fixed by forcing a global framerate limit in the driver slightly above the refresh rate, the mouse issues were caused by the "enhance pointer precision" setting, and WineD3D on Windows fixed a few games as well. There are still a few broken ones (notably Deus Ex IW), but at this point I would say it's a wash compared to 8.1, as other previously broken games are fixed and I still have XP if needed. Unless I find some major problem now, I plan to stay on 10.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Don't mind Cyker, he is afflicted with bad taste. Windows 10 UI is great, feels great, looks great, works great and it isn't ambiguous at all, especially since the last update, where they did iron out some UI ambiguities here and there.

All in all, Windows 10 is the best windows I've ever used in my life. Which doesn't say much, but hey, it's what it is, and if the question is "shall I update from 7 to 10?", the answer is an obvious yes. It could still be better, though.

Yes, Classic Shell is a must-have and has lots of great features. I use a 98/2000 style menu without any tiles and with the smoke skin.

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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Um, you wanna try stating an opinion without denigrating another user, chief?

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
I have an older computer (2010) with W7.  I've read a number of people who said they upgraded to 10 from 7 on an older computer and now that computer runs slower.

Should I upgrade?


I'm slightly leaning toward keeping my computer with W7 and getting a new one with W10 when the January 2020 expiration date of W7 gets closer.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Quote
Someone call the police, a crime has been commited here.

I got 10 for its backend features like DX12, not the UI. The normal start menu is a mess. Your own programs are mixed up with the metro apps, and the tiles are full of ads. Classic Shell still allows you to access it with one extra click if you want to.

I've now gotten the UI to a state where it's essentially the same as what I had in 7 and 8.1, but have also been trying some other themes for a change. This one is especially cool. The WinAero Tweaker program is also very useful, and is a lot like the old TweakUI.

Quote
I have an older computer (2010) with W7.  I've read a number of people who said they upgraded to 10 from 7 on an older computer and now that computer runs slower.

Should I upgrade?

I'm slightly leaning toward keeping my computer with W7 and getting a new one with W10 when the January 2020 expiration date of W7 gets closer.

It may be worth it if you use it for games, but make sure there are drivers available for all of your hardware. I have a laptop from 2011 and plan to keep 7 on it. I only use it for work and don't see any clear benefit to upgrading it, while the switchable AMD/Intel graphics driver it uses may have problems.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
The Windows 10 UI is a slight improvement over 7, but a vast improvement over 8/8.1.  The initial Start Menu tiles are infuriating if you have no interested in tiles (I don't, no touch screen) and you have to manually disable them.  And yeah, the ones on initial install look like apps but most are ads to grab the app itself.

That said, under the hood Windows 10 is a dramatic improvement over 7, 8, and 8.1 (and it goes without saying you should not, at this point, be running anything earlier than 7 on a machine connected to the Internet.  If you are, I can't help you).

The SOLE compelling reason to perhaps not upgrade from 7 to 10, and this is pretty much limited to laptops, is driver support on older machines.  I recently discovered that despite the fact that my laptop had OpenGL 2.1 support in its Intel Graphics driver on Windows 7, the Windows 10 drive is capped at 1.0.  No Baldur's Gate EE on my laptop.  The Windows 10 display driver has a new architecture and the old display driver is NOT useable in 10, so my only workaround is a different OS.  Considering my elderly laptop is not a gaming machine and I have the non-EE versions of BG1 and 2, I don't consider this a big deal.  If it was my only game-playing machine, I'd be looking a dual-boot options.

So, as always, driver support is the make-or-break on upgrade.  If the driver support for your machine is fine, there is no real reason not to upgrade now.  And for what it's worth, the laptop (circa 2009) is faster under Windows 10 than it ever was on 7.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Quote
Someone call the police, a crime has been commited here.

I got 10 for its backend features like DX12, not the UI. The normal start menu is a mess. Your own programs are mixed up with the metro apps, and the tiles are full of ads. Classic Shell still allows you to access it with one extra click if you want to.

I've now gotten the UI to a state where it's essentially the same as what I had in 7 and 8.1, but have also been trying some other themes for a change. This one is especially cool. The WinAero Tweaker program is also very useful, and is a lot like the old TweakUI.

I really dislike UI tweakers, but I get your point. What I don't get is this thing about ads. I don't have ads. What the hell are you doing to get ads?

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
I did a clean install of 10 near the start of the year after the upgrade barfed up and not had a problem with it since, it is stable, boot times are good and not yet had any compatibility issues
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Quote
I really dislike UI tweakers, but I get your point. What I don't get is this thing about ads. I don't have ads. What the hell are you doing to get ads?

I had a "Get Office" and "Get Skype" (despite already having both installed :rolleyes:), and a few other tiles like Xbox were flashing images asking me to buy something. I removed those programs manually and changed some other settings. I guess this is to be expected for a free OS, although some of the other apps are actually useful.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
Ah yeah, I remember those. Those were indeed annoying through the about 10 seconds they existed on my UI. Yep.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
I'm still miffed that they turned Solitaire into some ****ty app.   :ick:

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
I'm still miffed that they turned Solitaire into some ****ty app.   :ick:

yer the fact the games and calculator have to spend time loading is a little vexing given that they loaded instantly fine on win 95
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Offline jr2

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
You can shut the ads off.

Metro and user apps mixed was by users' request, IIRC (want all mah programs together!).

Most things about 10 that would cause issues are fixable, and the engine under the hood makes it worth it IMHO.  Plus, remember, you have 30 days to roll back in a worst-case scenario.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: Final verdict on Windows 10?
You can shut the ads off, but next month, they might be back on....

Man, why even **** with this thing? It's a mess, you guys are just complaining more. I'm tired of seeing this thread. I'll just go for it instead.

I hate the start menu because everything is listed alphabetically (unintuitive and backward). The previous start menu had everything categorized by program. The best is linux having been categorized by function. I like things where i can find them quickly two ways, not just be forced to going through the whole alphabet if i sort of didn't remember enough of a program name to search for.

You can shut the ads off.

Metro and user apps mixed was by users' request, IIRC (want all mah programs together!).

Most things about 10 that would cause issues are fixable, and the engine under the hood makes it worth it IMHO.  Plus, remember, you have 30 days to roll back in a worst-case scenario.
That engine under the hood isn't worth the butt plug it sports on the front of the car ramming you.

I'm sure there are going to be more apologists to paint lipstick on a pig. The spying win10 does is not overblown. It is pretty damn bad.

Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped.
Privacy statement details. Eula's are always worth a read, including the ones you can't.

I personally thought the portions of how long microsoft holds onto your data to be laughable, and how responsible they claim to be with it. The eula has many fun things. As if them holding onto your data a certain amount of time actually had anything to do with the people they share it with. The people they share it with could hold onto it forever. The eula somehow tries to act as if it's in the best interest of the users.

I am always of the impression that things are just as bad as they seem. This is definitely some serious spying. That i shouldn't worry if i have nothing to hide. All humans have many things to hide. To think not means you're an idiot. I don't enjoy living in a society where i am more and more open everyday to any kind of interpretation of being a scapegoat for government and corporations out of convenience or interest.

Not many get it because they're a tard. Are you a tard? Don't answer that personally, that's how the tard detector works (ironically, as if no explanation for how it works was ever mentioned". Big brother wants to know everything about you in any way. It's all a big play by governments to attempt being omniscient. I just reached real far right there that i'm sure people will think i'm nuts. You know how many things track you daily whether you own them or not. And i'm sure people think i'm nuts now, but think how many devices are spying on you in an increasing number everyday. And then think about the people who let it happen, and then the people in control pushing for more. And how many other countries are in on this.

"But, this is microsoft we're talking about here" right and who are they selling the data too? They collect it for a reason, one of those is displaying ads and sending you promotions, not all are microsofts ads and promotions, and microsoft does run a business even...one sided morons.

I will not apologize for my snippiness. But, running win10 is surely a bad idea if you want to further aid  being persecuted and or in jail for something done at home that could easily be misconstrued (man am i glad i don't own a tv that listens to me; how many conversations are said while watching tv?). Very sure footage of a parent spanking their kid after a young age mess up would cause the uproar of child abuse. I am not shying away from the realization of living in a populous of endless scapegoats and excuses for the government and corporations. In fact, a system of automation for spying run by the unjust is evil.

This is all very real, and apologists are having a harder time shoving the ever growing mountain under a couch (for a while now, there's been a sofa on everest).

First they get everyone numb on their phones to spying, then they same on more personal devices? Of course. Personally i don't run android, or the g-apps store. There's plenty i'm an offender of. But, at least being enlightened and being wise with my choices where i do actually have a say, sure says more than others.

No one say you don't have a choice. You could get a mac, or run unix or linux. Personally I wouldn't run macos. Code that has been publicly audited functions the way that the public specifies. Again, one sided morons would like to say that somehow the source code for openvpn being publicly available will take down my vpn. To which i say retarded thinking; just because you have the source code doesn't mean you have the keys to the kingdom. In the area of openvpn you certainly don't. Have fun defeating my diffie hellman made by different software that still wouldn't give you the keys.

In b4 people ask me stupid questions, i think i addressed plenty for people to read and not fully grasp. Seriously, I have been asked why i lock my car, why i lock the front door of where i live, why locks were even invented, what's the point of theories if they aren't 100% accurate in real life, why good things happen to bad people and bad things to good, and even why despite a broken window why i will still lock that door. Most people i encounter are dummies growing on a daily basis, i hope that celebrity gossip and football are that good.

Throw it at me. Windows 10 sucks, you're a deceived idiot if you think you can tame it to play the way you want.

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