[Mars]

Yeah, yeah, I know about the Typhon and so on and honestly, I just forget about the Diomedes, or the other new vets.
This is a rather personal thing, since I'm in love with the Deimos since I first played the game after it was released^^

Well, it's good that you love the Deimos. If you've ever seen the Sol Expeditionary Force picture I posted, you know that the Tevs can field what amounts to a wall of Deimos corvettes. The Buntu actually have probably twice as many again Sanctus cruisers (at the start of the WiH 1 campagin) but honestly 1 Deimos ~ 3 or 4 Sanctus cruisers, in terms of offensive capability.

Deimos corvettes function, if you want to think about it in terms of contemporary armies, as an IFV rather than an MBT. They're cheap(ish), flexible, can deal with smaller opponents, provide cover and fire support for infantry (fighters), guard more important units, carry out offensive operations against not so well defended targets, and the like.

Diomedes function more as Karunas - light carriers with frightening firepower, able to carry out small offensive campaigns all by themselves. A Diomedes stationed in the Kuiper belt could, for instance, launch squadron level attacks sporadically throughout the system without being detected, taking out, for instance, an upity Elder, while also being able to maul a Karuna in a close range battle. This is pure conjecture on my part, but given what we know of Tev vs Buntu technology, the Diomedes is most likely able to go much longer than the Karuna without resupply as well.

Chimeras basically exist to spearhead major offensives (with triple mounted heavy beams) and to defend high value targets (with pulse guns and 7 AAA guns, but are apparently not cheap, nor are they extremely flexible. They're a lot like MBTs really.

[Aardwolf]

Ok, I know MBT = Main Battle Tank, but, what is IFV?

[MatthTheGeek]

Let me wiki that for you...

[Aardwolf]

Why you gotta snark?

IFV = Infantry Fighting Vehicle

[Aesaar]

Chances are the Karuna doesn't have much endurance at all.  It was built for what basically amounts to a one system counter-terrorist organisation.  It has no need to go a significant length of time without resupply, because resupply is a few minutes away at most.  This is probably true of most Fed ships, which would make the Agincourt just that much more useful for military purposes. 

The Diomedes, to me, just shows how much better the Tevs are at building front line warships.  Not to say the Feds are bad at it, but the GTVA can throw more firepower and the same amount of armor on a ship 2/3 the size of the Karuna.  Still, we're looking at a front-line warship with fighter launch capability versus a carrier with some decent anti-capital armament.  Kinda like the Russian versus American carrier design philosophy.  If the GTVA and UEF were to team up and design a warship...

Though I personally think Diomedes needs a new model.  The current one isn't bad, but it just isn't up to the same standards as the other ships.  Not too fond of the asymmetrical layout it's got going on, either.

[yuezhi]

they'd just end up with Solarises refitted with AAA beam point defenses.
i know you're thinking about a new ship design but this is much cheaper.

[Aesaar]

Eeh.  The Solaris is impressive, but I think it relies on its torpedoes more than GTVA ships rely on their beams.  At the end of Aristeia, the J.E. Hoover jams the Toutatis' torpedo targeting, and it was pretty much a sitting duck.

We know a Solaris kills a Raynor 1-vs-1, but I'm really curious about how a fight between a beam-jammed Raynor and a torpedo-jammed Solaris would turn out. The Raynor has its slash beams, its pulse cannons, and its Eos torpedoes.  Apart from its Apocalypse torpedo spam, what effective anti-capital weapons does the Solaris have?  A few gattler turrets? 

I really should try that out.

[crizza]

I guess the few gattler turrets(a dozen to be correct) would pretty quick rob the Raynor of its 2 terslashblue and Sblue, while the flak screen of the Solaris should be able do deal with the few Eos the Raynor launches.
 My bet would be the Solaris...

Although one should think about launching more Eos torpedos at once.

And the Diomedes is a sweet ship, if used to harras enemy flanks, not the front lines.

[Jellyfish]

Wasn't the Solaris armed with turret based mass drivers?

[-Norbert-]

The Diomedes, to me, just shows how much better the Tevs are at building front line warships.

No it doesn't, at least not if you compare it to the original Karuna.
As you said yourself the original Karuna was build at a time, when the worst enemy was the Gaian Effort. So if you want to compare the Diomedes to a top of the line ship, I think the Karuna MK2 is a better candidate.

[WouterSmitssm]

Hows goinin with part 2 war in heaven

[The E]

It's going at a pretty steady rate.

[crizza]

Don't poke them.
When it's done, it's done.
I for my part can wait^^

[MatthTheGeek]

Wasn't the Solaris armed with turret based mass drivers?

Nope. The Solaris multiparts are equipped with a ship-to-ship version of fighter's Gattler autoguns, for anti-subsystem duty.

The Diomedes, to me, just shows how much better the Tevs are at building front line warships.

I'm pretty sure a Karuna is much cheaper than a Diomedes. Look how many of them the UEF managed to field just to fight a few pirates and terrorists. The Tevs can only build better warships than the UEF because their whole economy is oriented toward military production, which is the complete opposite of the UEF's strategy prior to the Reunion.

And even with their economy mostly oriented to military production, most of the Tev fleet is still made of inferior Capella-era warships. So I'd say the UEF is actually a more efficient warship builder by a significant margin.

[WouterSmitssm]

ok i hope this will be great campaign

[Klaustrophobia]

I guess the few gattler turrets(a dozen to be correct) would pretty quick rob the Raynor of its 2 terslashblue and Sblue, while the flak screen of the Solaris should be able do deal with the few Eos the Raynor launches.
 My bet would be the Solaris...

Although one should think about launching more Eos torpedos at once.

And the Diomedes is a sweet ship, if used to harras enemy flanks, not the front lines.

IIRC, flak cannot shoot down bombs.  i would assume this extends to BP's torpedos, but maybe the team changed this behavior?

[crizza]

Then there are still the PDS turrets.

[MatthTheGeek]

Flak can shoot bombs. They just have to hit the bomb directly with the flak projectile, not with the resulting explosion. Which doesn't exactly happen often, but can happen.

[The E]

There are a few flags available that can be used to make flak more efficient against bombs and torpedoes ("takes blast damage" and "takes shockwave damage" to be exact).

[Scotty]

The Diomedes, to me, just shows how much better the Tevs are at building front line warships.

I'm pretty sure a Karuna is much cheaper than a Diomedes. Look how many of them the UEF managed to field just to fight a few pirates and terrorists. The Tevs can only build better warships than the UEF because their whole economy is oriented toward military production, which is the complete opposite of the UEF's strategy prior to the Reunion.

And even with their economy mostly oriented to military production, most of the Tev fleet is still made of inferior Capella-era warships. So I'd say the UEF is actually a more efficient warship builder by a significant margin.

Although you forget two things:  1) the amount of Diomedes we see in theater is not all of them.  The amount of Karunas we see in theater is all of them.  GTVA has other systems to protect, too.  2) Sol had the economic powerhouse equal to the rest of the GTA combined at the end of FS1, and they didn't get *****-slapped by the Shivans again.