Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Goober5000 on March 19, 2018, 12:51:14 pm
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Yep, really. FreeSpace 1 was released 20 years ago today.
They arrived by the thousands, suddenly and without warning.
The ruthless Shivans emerged through subspace near Earth, harbouring technology light years ahead of anything seen before. They made no attempt to communicate. They did not respond to your heralds. They simply attacked -- and destroyed everything in their path.
As a pilot for the Galactic Terran Alliance you are no stranger to war. However, when racing through space to engage your new enemy for the first time, you sense something different. Suddenly, darkness blankets your spacecraft. Your stomach sinks as your eye pan across the Shivan flagship's massive body. Then it begins. Swarms of fighters pour from the belly of the flagship and scream toward you. You're about to discover everything you though you knew about space combat -- just changed.
This is the beginning of the Great War.
- 30 branching single-player missions and 20 multiplayer missions.
- 3 unique species, each with their own strengths, weaknesses, tactics, ships, and fighting characteristics.
- Over 40 jaw-dropping real-time ships with dynamic lighting, stunning effects, animation and unprecedented levels of realism and detail.
- Create your own detailed missions using "FRED", the fully-featured mission editor.
- Up to 12 players over the Internet plus real-time voice-messaging allows you to send custom messages during multiplayer games.
Some of the reviews (https://www.mobygames.com/game/descent-freespace-the-great-war/mobyrank):
Phenomenal graphics, the best yet in a space combat game. Good plotline, but no character development or interaction. The combat model is excellent, and Freespace blends fighting and commanding seamlessly for a total immersive experience. It may not be the most original game on the market, but it sure is a ton of fun. Fans of the genre should absolutely love this game.
Though Descent: Freespace bears the brand name PC gamers know and love, this title is nothing like the previous games in the Descent series, as it's a space combat simulator that has more in common with the Wing Commander titles than anything Descent fans have seen before. Despite comments from some previous Descent players who weren't pleased to see the series taking a new turn, Freespace is a refreshingly new addition to the series, and one just about everybody should enjoy.
A Frankenstein's monster of several different space sims, patched together with today's computer and graphics technology, Descent: Freespace works because above everything else, it adhere's to the cardinal rule of computer games -- it's fun. Interplay is definitely onto something here, and with a few refinements -- like a more fleshed-out back story, better character interaction, and more original elements, Descent: Freespace could blossom into a series that rivals even Wing Commander. Until then, sit back, hold that force feedback joystick with a tight grip, and prepare your blood for a good boiling.
Pre-release trailers:
You learn something new every day... apparently the working title was Mahabarata.
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Well we already knew Volition were into Hindu symbolism.
Anyway, Happy Birthday Freespace!
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Good that they changed name. Mahabarata2open sounds weird :p
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Ugh Spacey... you were an very ugly baby at birth, you know? :D
But fortunately you become the most beautiful guy/girl in the world :)
*kissing* Happy birthday.
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Wow, didn't even know there were trailers! Thwy're remarkably good given what they had to work with.
Thanks for the reminder Goober. Cheers!
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Damn, we old. :p
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Ugh Spacey... you were an very ugly baby at birth, you know? :D
Not according to the reviews!
"the graphics are amazing ... the visuals produced are stunning ... Truly the best looking space simulation on the market."
"graphics that'll blow you away!"
"The graphics in Freespace are the best yet in a space combat game - period. ... Phenomenal graphics"
"Graphically, comparisons to Wing Commander: Prophecy can pretty much be expected; both games offer state-of-the-art visuals, and squeeze every last dazzling effect out of your 3D accelerator."
You whippersnappers don't appreciate what you have. :p Dial back the hedonic adaptation a bit. Especially because, 20 years before Descent: FreeSpace, the cutting edge in video games was Space Invaders.
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But that would be 40 years before present day :p
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I remember the trailers back in these years. I was single just got through a nasty divorce and this was my outlet from daily life. 20 years later, I am married again and my lady is worth her weight in gold! I remember my first missions, how my hands got sweaty from the excitement of making a kill, staying alive and all that. total fun!
We need official continuation of the saga!
ok, maybe not, but still had to try :)
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Ugh Spacey... you were an very ugly baby at birth, you know? :D
Man, you're older than me. You should know the graphics back then were fantastic.
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Anyone else notice that two days after Freespace's birthday, Wikipedia's featured article is Capella?
99% a coincidence, but I found it funny. :lol:
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Ugh Spacey... you were an very ugly baby at birth, you know? :D
Man, you're older than me. You should know the graphics back then were fantastic.
Freespace 1 was actually before my time. I began with gaming 1999... and my first games were Need for Speed High Stakes and Freespace 2 only and even there are only one year younger than this...they already look much better. But i think the reason in this is, that these trailers seems to be created in Software Mode only, because i think that Wing Commander Prophecy (one year older) in 3dfx looked also much better than Freespace in this trailers did.
Also i have to say, i never played the original retail Freespace... my first time with Freespace: The Great War was with a Freespace Port version, which i remember was still far off the original game, because Enter the Dragon and Playing Judas were part of an optional loop (maybe Port 2.x?) And that was with SCP graphics already.
Sure, since 1999 i have also played several games that were much older than this, but well... especially in comparsion to FS2... it looks ugly :D
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Were planets possible in FS1 o___O?
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Were planets possible in FS1 o___O?
Interestingly this feature was removed from the full version. But was reimplemented in the 10-missions spanning long MMX edition of the game. (aka Freespace: Darkness Rising)
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Were planets possible in FS1 o___O?
Yes... as 3D objects...
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But that would be 40 years before present day :p
I see you can add. :p The purpose of that comparison was to show that the 20 years leading up to 1998 saw substantially more advancement than the 20 years leading up to 2018. It was the rising part of the exponential curve.
Cobra hasn't become too jaded to appreciate it, I see. :)
Were planets possible in FS1 o___O?
Interestingly this feature was removed from the full version. But was reimplemented in the 10-missions spanning long MMX edition of the game. (aka Freespace: Darkness Rising)
It was implemented in the DVD release of the full game, as were afterburner trails. It came bundled with certain DVD-ROM drives and you needed a Pentium III.
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I believe FreeSpace was a birthday or Christmas present when I was 14 (pretty sure it was released later in Europe, can't recall tho..). I don't remember much more than that... Getting old :wtf:
I do remember playing around with 3D planet models, though. Those were on Freespace 2 Sector at some point.
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I remember my friend in second or third grade telling me about it in class one day and then showing me the opening cutscene when I went over to his house and here I am. This was 2002 or 2003 so I was pretty late to the party as a kid but hey, I'm still around.
Descent Freespace was the second game I ever purchased with my own money after saving up for it for about a month and damn was it a good purchase.
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FreeSpace was what inspired me to buy a PC. By the time I had save up enough to get one, FreeSpace 2 had been released. Still have the retail discs, and still among my favorite games.
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Good lord this makes me feel old. So many memories though, so many memories...
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It was either the first or second game I ever played on PC, it came with the first PC I got.
I was only about 7 or 8 so there was an incredible amount of trial and error and I didn't have a clue what was going on. Spent ages in the main hall not knowing what to do but being suitably impressed by the futuristic animations that I persevered. When I pressed "Del." I thought it was a completely different ship and had no idea what was going on, but was very happy to be able to fire rockets. I didn't realise you could actually fly the ship forwards rather than spinning in place for ages, naturally me and my younger brother - who controlled the weapons - had skipped the training because it was boring.
Playing Judas was very difficult, but Clash of the Titans must have taken us months and dozens of tries to complete when we got that far. I saw the Demon jump in so naturally I ordered everyone to destroy my target. I had no idea that you had to target bombers until the relevant training mission in Freespace 2. I still remember when, as if by a miracle, the Bastion survived that mission, it was down to 1%.
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Good lord this makes me feel old. So many memories though, so many memories...
Gruuuuuuuuuuug!
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Good lord this makes me feel old. So many memories though, so many memories...
Gruuuuuuuuuuug!
Mongooooooooooose! :D
I'm trying to remember to swing by here more. :)
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I was in 1st/2nd grade (so I guess 7-8) when I first played Freespace. At the time, I only had Darkness Rising, and it would taunt me with the promise of more missions. Every couple of years, I would go back to the game. It wasn't until I was in high school that I finally had access to a debit card, and I used it to buy both Freespace 1 and 2 off E-Bay. Easily one of the best purchases I ever made in my life.
P.S. Young me under a different account name here (that I have completely forgotten the info for) even posted up those same trailers that are on the OP at one point.
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Ok, we all love this game...please tell me what mission was your all time favorite for both Freespace and Freespace 2 series. Mine was the end game last mission in Freespace against that Shivian Destroyer. In Freespace 2, going up against the Santhanas with three other bomber ships to destroy the 4 main lasers.
Yours?
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My favorite missions in the game:
"Clash of the Titans" from FreeSpace: The Great War, even i prefer the fanmade FS2 version of that, which uses stronger hulls and beam weapons more.
"The Manhattan Project" from FreeSpace: Silent Threat (well, it is only one of the Single Missions, but IMO the best designed mission on the whole Mission Disk as i played through all them a few months ago)
"The Great Hunt" from FreeSpace 2 because of its nebula and because it is the best nebula mission next to "As Lightning Falls" IMO (even the latter only because of its depressing atmosphere and not for its mission design). Without nebula it would be "Apokalypse" for obvious reasons :D
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Freespace 1: "First Strike"
So this is probably biased because I played through Act 1 so many times, but I just adored First Strike. You get to hit back at the Shivans, and oh boy, do you get to do it in style with 4 wings all while flying the wonderful Athena.
Freespace 2: SOC Missions
Hard to pick, but I just loved any of the SOC missions. There's so much variety to them, and it makes the loop so memorable.
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Oh the Athena, i liked that ship A LOT, i petty much did half the the original FS1 with it. Killing fighters? -> Athena, Killing Bombers? -> Athena, Killing Fresighters? -> Athena, Disarming target -> Athena!
The Zeus is just a bad reeplacement.
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Well, the Zeus is able to do the same without any problems... AND... Killing Destroyers? -> Zeus :D
Unfotunately the Zeus is ugly as heck.
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Well, the Zeus is able to do the same without any problems... AND... Killing Destroyers? -> Zeus :D
Unfotunately the Zeus is ugly as heck.
The Zeus is WEAK(or at least it feels Weak, i never checked this actually) and a larger target profile, there is a reason of why V crippled the Athena to only the Avenger as a damaging weapon when even the Apollo can load up the Prometheus.
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The Avenger is actually a better primary than the Prometheus, though.
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The Avenger is actually a better primary than the Prometheus, though.
Really? and 20 years later i keep finding new stuff.
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DPS-wise, yeah the Avenger is better. That said, I never liked the Prometheus myself, preferring the Banshee for its high shield damage.
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And DPS is great for the Athena since you just CANT MISS, you will be always hitting with all 4 guns.
BTW in all these years we where able to figure out the Sol nodes discrepancy? Because i remember to be sure that SOL having 3 nodes was something that was changed later on when they realised that the Lucifer will be at Deneb!!!
I still remember the mission that said that command will be moving the Galatea to the Beta Alquilae system in case the Shivans decide to attack Vasuda Prime trought there... i was "wut?".
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BTW in all these years we where able to figure out the Sol nodes discrepancy? Because i remember to be sure that SOL having 3 nodes was something that was changed later on when they realised that the Lucifer will be at Deneb!!!
I still remember the mission that said that command will be moving the Galatea to the Beta Alquilae system in case the Shivans decide to attack Vasuda Prime trought there... i was "wut?".
Did they change writers between the two games? If so then that could explain the discrepancy. Or maybe they decided "**** it, one node to rule them all" when Silent Threat came around lol
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
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BTW in all these years we where able to figure out the Sol nodes discrepancy? Because i remember to be sure that SOL having 3 nodes was something that was changed later on when they realised that the Lucifer will be at Deneb!!!
I still remember the mission that said that command will be moving the Galatea to the Beta Alquilae system in case the Shivans decide to attack Vasuda Prime trought there... i was "wut?".
Did they change writers between the two games? If so then that could explain the discrepancy. Or maybe they decided "**** it, one node to rule them all" when Silent Threat came around lol
In my opinion they changed the nodes in the middle of FS1 development when they realised it makes no sence that all 3 would collapse and they would have the Lucifer at Deneb, and they would loose control of Deneb shortly after, and was is petty much at Sol doopstep at the middle of the game, and probably naver had the time to re-do the animations and some voices.
This whole thing of moving the Galatea to Beta Aquilae to defend Vasuda Prime never did make sence to me either, sounds to me originally there were a node from Beta Aquilae to Deneb (maybe instead of Sol?). But the truth is FS1 is full of node discrepancies WAY too many to be normal. Something happened halfway trought development here, its like they designed the universe map for a diferent plot.
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.
Precision Volition Engineering
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.
Who thought that was a good design decision? Like I get wanting destroying subsystems to be a valuable thing but that's the weirdest version of that I've seen. Hell Strike Suit Zero just made them do bonus damage to ships (outside of killing turrets) and that worked well.
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.
Who thought that was a good design decision? Like I get wanting destroying subsystems to be a valuable thing but that's the weirdest version of that I've seen. Hell Strike Suit Zero just made them do bonus damage to ships (outside of killing turrets) and that worked well.
I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.
FS2 did it a little better with huge ships and weapons, but I don't think any of the systems they tried quite made it. There's probably a compromise in the middle though.
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I recently discovered that the EMP missile counted as a bomb because of its shockwave when I was playing through Proving Grounds and the Moloch had 1% left. My wingmen got the kill after bombing it repeatedly with EMPs.
As far as simulation goes, yeah Freespace 1 isn't much better but from a capital ship combat design standpoint it at least allows some more freedom.
The fact that there hasn't been another huge space combat sim going on 20 years is part of why the capital ship combat never was as realistic as it could have been though I think Freespace 2 did a reasonably good job for the times.
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Compare freespace to wing commander and freespace graphics win every time. They're better than standoff too without open adding to the quality.
Also, you can have proper ship-to-ship combat in the Freespace engine, with or without beams. Because of the way the VISION engine implements capital ships, i.e. multiple critical subsystems, no hull HP, everything involving the big ships needs to be heavily scripted. I remember one particularly awkward mission in Standoff where one destroyer launches a large volley of torpedoes that according to fluff shold kill the opposing ship twice over but doesn't because the torpedoes can't hit the engine sections and as long at least one critical subsystem is intact a capital ship isn't dead.
Who thought that was a good design decision? Like I get wanting destroying subsystems to be a valuable thing but that's the weirdest version of that I've seen. Hell Strike Suit Zero just made them do bonus damage to ships (outside of killing turrets) and that worked well.
What kills me is that it means you absolutely couldn't afford to waste your shots on bombing missions, otherwise you might end up short on torpedoes to finish capships off.
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Well i actually think, that the previous Wing Commanders all have a better capship system than Prophecy, yes.
Or to better say, the Prophecy system was a good idea, that went bad. Actually i never know, why an engine should be a critical subsystem you have to destroy to kill a capship. But the main problem in this was the fact, that you were not able to destroy these systems with prolonged fire of your primaries... it had to be a weapon with the "bomb" flag.. to speak it in freespace terms. Actually that you are not able to kill Capships in Freespace 2 with your primaries was also a bad idea IMO... it should be possible, but should only take longer.
Maybe not worth the effort in time, but at least in Silent Hunter 3 i was out of Torpedos and was still able to complete my mission after i sunk that god damn carrier with my on board cannon.
But i have to say, that i think that the general hull system of Freespace is not much better.. it does not matter where the last shot is placed.. the ship explodes, even you hit a region of the hull that was not punched before.
I think the System with the 4 segments in WC1-4 was much better... you were only able to kill a capship if you have caused enough damage in that specific segment.
I think the only game that made this one better than all other games was Klingon Academy IIRC. Actually its damage system is still the best in this genre.
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I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.
a.k.a. "the only way anyone ever beat Silent Threat"
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Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.
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I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.
a.k.a. "the only way anyone ever beat Silent Threat
If this mission guide (https://web.archive.org/web/20010206175132/http://freespace.volitionwatch.com:80/fs1/tactical/secrets.htm) is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.
Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.
I think you can do that by messing with armor.tbl in FSO.
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I don't know, I get what they were trying to do. It's not as though Freespace 1 had a neccesarily better system - you could sit in a blind spot and plink away with ML-16s into the same insignificant spot in the hull for ten or twenty minutes and the massive 2km plus long destroyer would suddenly just explode.
a.k.a. "the only way anyone ever beat Silent Threat
If this mission guide (https://web.archive.org/web/20010206175132/http://freespace.volitionwatch.com:80/fs1/tactical/secrets.htm) is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.
Is it possible to just make most "small arms" weapons do no damage to capital ships, possibly just destroyers, while keeping subsystems vulnerable.
I think you can do that by messing with armor.tbl in FSO.
The hell? i did that mission a few of times before ST:R came out in a Ursa. And i remember that is also why i told you a few years back that i rather fly the last ST:R mission in a strong Ursa rather than in a weakling Zeus.
Correction here is a 11 years old vid of mine in a Valk in all its glorious 480p.
Not sure about the difficulty, but i never ever played in anything below medium.
The number of fighters the Hades has onboard is just ridiculus, its like the entire ship is just a big hangar except for the engine block and tower.
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If this mission guide (https://web.archive.org/web/20010206175132/http://freespace.volitionwatch.com:80/fs1/tactical/secrets.htm) is to believed, at least one guy managed to do it in a bomber.
I remember doing it once in a bomber when I was younger, solely because I had nothing better to do with my life. Granted, of course, I believe I did it on a easier difficulty so I don't think that counts lol
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I don't think I ever beat retail Silent Threat, though I only played it when I was a kid. I never could properly get into the safe spot, probably because I was hellbent on using a Zeus for whatever reason.
Another dumb story from that playthrough was deciding to use a loadout of only shield breakers on primaries then constantly running out of missiles because FS1 lock-on missiles couldn't reliably hit dragons in a dogfight.
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I really dont remember to be THAT hard, as of every FS mission out there is very lineal and its just a matter to figure out the best way to do it.
Maybe i should try again. If i recorded the video as a fighter it means it was easier to do it as a fighter, thats for sure.
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I mean this was years ago and I was a kid who still wasn't particularly good at the game at that point. It was also pre-YT iirc and all I had was a text guide to it that wasn't as descriptive.
I should try retail Silent Threat again (partially for the video series) since it's been at least 10 years since I played it.
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I don't remember if the FS1+ST CD I've long lost was on its own, or if it was bundled with D3 or D2...
I guess the Descent: FreeSpace naming convinced me to buy it, since luck or fate got me into buying D2... if I saw the Conflict name I probably would have put that disc back on the shelf.
The last thing I remember of that era was doing... really nothing much in FRED1, trying to make Shivan stuff either allied in test missions or player-controllable only to be hammered with error messages so I gave up, wasn't aware of unpacker tools at the time to see the game data.
And only flying the Ursa in Good Luck. I think I hit the last mission in ST but my memory there is gone.