Author Topic: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 64736 times)

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Offline Aesaar

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I think the biggest issue with the Han Solo death scene is that none of the characters get a chance to reflect on it.  If it has an impact, it will be in the next movie.  As it is, it feels like it's just an excuse for Chewie to shoot Ren so Rey can have her unsatisfying victory without stretching disbelief too much.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Well, it also will undoubtedly serve as a pivotal character point for Ren later on. It's clear Snoke was pushing him to do it so he could be even closer to the dark side or something. Snoke calls it a super difficult test and shows doubt that Ren will pass. Given Ren's character as a Vader wanna-be, that's kinda a big  deal.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Ren's gonna turn like Vader did in the first one. I'll bet a spaceship model.

Of course it's so easy to see I feel like everyone already knows this, and I'm not being very specific, but still. I would be seriously surprised if his character actually followed through on his total path to the dark side.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Having Kylo Ren not turn good in the end would not be a very Disney thing to do, IMO.

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Having Kylo Ren not turn good in the end would not be a very Disney thing to do, IMO.

The Disney thing to do is to have him try to stab the protagonist in the back, and slip and fall to his death by pointy rocks, improbable hanging, or possibly stabbed with the prow of a sailing ship.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I think the most interesting thing Disney could do with it is to have Rey (who is, unsurprisingly, related to Luke) rebel against Luke's way of teaching and confront Kylo Ren again to avenge Han Solo, drawing on the Dark Side to do it.  Snoke, seeing Rey's potential and Ren's weakness, immediately casts him aside in favor of Rey, who welcomes a teacher that aligns more closely with her experiences with the Force.  Ren, disillusioned, falls into a despair until Finn runs into him, who needs help redeeming Rey.  Under Snoke's influence, Rey desires no such redemption. In IX, Ren and Finn confront Rey, and Finn is gravely wounded (likely on accident) in the ensuing struggle before Rey strikes Ren down (again).  Seeing her her anger and attempts at vengeance hurt her friend and her hated rival defeated at her own hands, Rey realizes she feels no sense of fulfillment, satisfaction, or salved grief.  Faced with the same choice Anakin was faced in Revenge of the Sith (favored mentor against what's Right), and simultaneously the same choice Luke faced in Return of the Jedi (anger and fear against family; Ren is her cousin) she renounces her allegiance to Snoke and destroys him.

Symmetry and homage without retreading.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
That. Sounds. AWESOME.

But unlikely. Disney would never have the guts to do that to a female role model.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Just got back from seeing it, and goddamn I am pumped.  Put everything else aside, that movie was just fun.  I think I had a smile unavoidably plastered across my face for most of it.  Yes, there were a bunch of events that were probably far too convenient if I stop and think about them, and the whole Republic/Resistance/First Order dynamic wasn't properly explained, and when you step back and take a look it was nearly a shot-for-shot homage of A New Hope, but all of that fades into the background compared to how damn fun it was.  This was the first movie in 32 years that actually feels like Star Wars, and that's no small thing.  It's amazing how much you wind up missing well-written characters and dialog, not to mention honest-to-God physical sets and effects.  And yes, it was a sun-eating Death Star 3 for who knows what reason, but it looked really badass doing its thing, so I'm good.

It's a funny thing, though.  I was born several years after the OT premiered, and while I don't even specifically remember the first time I saw the films, I know they were a big part of my childhood.  Hell, I will forever carry the shame of having seen Episode I three times in theaters (I was an idiot tween then, so cut past me some slack).  But none of that shiny over-produced mess came anywhere close to producing the feelings of nostalgia that this did.  The thing about the prequels is that the more you think about them, the worse you realize they were, until you inevitably wind up with a list of critiques like the Plinkett reviews.  But this film produced the exact opposite reaction in me.  Yes, I recognize the flaws, but I'll gladly forgive them because of its underlying strength.  I'd go back out and see this movie again tomorrow, and it's going to be an agonizingly long two years until we get its sequel.

And I know why they felt like they had to do it, and they honestly probably did have to do it, and it'll probably be for the best...but why did they do it? :(

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I think the most interesting thing Disney could do with it is to have Rey (who is, unsurprisingly, related to Luke) rebel against Luke's way of teaching and confront Kylo Ren again to avenge Han Solo, drawing on the Dark Side to do it.  Snoke, seeing Rey's potential and Ren's weakness, immediately casts him aside in favor of Rey, who welcomes a teacher that aligns more closely with her experiences with the Force.  Ren, disillusioned, falls into a despair until Finn runs into him, who needs help redeeming Rey.  Under Snoke's influence, Rey desires no such redemption. In IX, Ren and Finn confront Rey, and Finn is gravely wounded (likely on accident) in the ensuing struggle before Rey strikes Ren down (again).  Seeing her her anger and attempts at vengeance hurt her friend and her hated rival defeated at her own hands, Rey realizes she feels no sense of fulfillment, satisfaction, or salved grief.  Faced with the same choice Anakin was faced in Revenge of the Sith (favored mentor against what's Right), and simultaneously the same choice Luke faced in Return of the Jedi (anger and fear against family; Ren is her cousin) she renounces her allegiance to Snoke and destroys him.


Sick Pllot.

Although honestly I really wasnt invested that much in her character that much until much later into the movie. Deep down I wanted Finn's character to be the one who fights with a lightsaber and be a jedi but that can still happen later in the series perhaps. Even if he isnt it would be pretty cool for a non force user to be the wielder of a light saber and be the main character. Another reason why I didnt care for her is that somehow she learns to hypnotise people just outta the blue.

Captain Phantasma was a literal joke. Seriously. Like the fact she doesnt barely anything for most of the film even though she was hyped up as hell as being a female role model she certainly dies a really anti climactic and hilarious death. Also "Her Armour looks like something from a cosplay convention" Quoted straight from my friend who watched it with me.

Han Solo just finding the Falcon out of the blue was really goddamn annoying as was all those real convenient events. Plus they really really should have waited for the Han Solo confrontation to reveal his face.




 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I seem to be having the exact opposite reaction to this movie as the rest of the planet.  It felt far LESS like Star Wars to me than even the prequels.  I really got the feeling of watching some B-movie director who got permission to use Star Wars assets make a poor attempt at writing a story to justify as many cool space battle scenes as possible.  No matter how good the space battles are (and they were), it's just too damn distracting how bad the basic storytelling elements were. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 04:34:28 am by Klaustrophobia »
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Offline Sandwich

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It seems to me that JJ's work has always relied on having strong antagonists to carry things... Mission: Impossible 3 had the incredible Philip Seymour Hoffman, Lost had those crazy Others, etc. His Star Trek movies were mediocre precisely because the bad guys therein were also mediocre: Eric Bana as Nero was meh. Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan was slightly better as an opponent, but his persona was still meh.

And now we have the honestly laughable bad guys in The Force Awakens: Kylo Ren? Meh. General Hux?? Gleeson did as good as he could, and it was the most believable of the baddies, but he can't escape the fact that he still (somehow!) looks like a teenager. Supreme Leader Snoke? He was fine - aside from the name. >.< Captain Phasma? Another silly name, and was made to look like a weak fool in the face of opposition.

And it's not just JJ's work that benefits from well-executed baddies - other great works are great mainly due to their antagonists. Star Wars IV-VI were great because of James Earl Frikkin' Jones and his Darth Vader voice. Batman - The Dark Knight was great because of Heath Ledger and his incredible, unnerving Joker. The Lord of the Rings films were great because Sauron and the Nazgul were fearsome opponents. The Matrix was great because of Agent Smithy-pooh. Star Trek: First Contact was great because of the Borg. Jurassic Park was great because of the velociraptors. And of course, FreeSpace 1 & 2 are great because of the Shivans.

Without an opponent worthy of the position, movies only manage to be mediocre at best.
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Offline SypheDMar

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Thank God for Wookiepedia. Captain Phasma is not dead. If she were, that would have been a huge waste of a character.

Lots of people said what I wanted to say. The movie is fun with flaws that I can overlook because for the first time in a long time, we finally have a proper Star Wars movie.

I'm so glad the lightsaber scenes were nothing like what we've seen in the prequels. Whoever mentioned that the swings felt weighty is right.

Star Killer was definite lame, though. Pretty! But lame.

4/5 - would watch again and looking forward to Star Wars VIII

e: And I loved how they had newer iterations of the TIE and X-Wings. Felt like a parallel to reality; after 30 years, we've gone from F-15s to retrofitted, upgraded, and more modern F-15s

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
e: And I loved how they had newer iterations of the TIE and X-Wings. Felt like a parallel to reality; after 30 years, we've gone from F-15s to retrofitted, upgraded, and more modern F-15s
I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right.  Granted in the real world we went from wooden-frame biplanes to jet fighters in almost the same time period, but that was while air technology was far from mature.  By all accounts the Star Wars universe has been using blasters and hyperdrives and the like for who knows how many years, so at some point there's probably not a huge need to reinvent the wheel.  The alternative is what I can comfortably call FreeSpace Syndrome, where you replace just about the whole damn fleet for no apparent reason. :p

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Needed more TIE Interceptors.

 

Offline qwadtep

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Needed more TIE Interceptors.
It was kind of sorely lacking in fighter variation in general. Where are my bloody A-Wings?

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
e: And I loved how they had newer iterations of the TIE and X-Wings. Felt like a parallel to reality; after 30 years, we've gone from F-15s to retrofitted, upgraded, and more modern F-15s

Would have rather seen the B-Wing in action. 
After the initial break off from the Death Star in RotJ we never saw it again. Could have had the X-Wings covering for B-Wings during the attack the attack on the planet.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Weren't X and Y wings the only ones in the original theatrical trilogy?  I certainly didn't know of any others until I played Rogue Squadron (which now I have a hankering for).
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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
A Wings and B Wings I think may have appeared at the end of The Empire Strikes Back and were featured more prominently in the Rotj. An A Wing crashes into a Star Destroyers bridge on screen. It happens just after the classic line "Intensify forward firepower", I remember laughing my ass off.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
TOO LATE!!!

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
AUUUGHHHH!