[Thaeris]

After contemplating the point that Diaspora is intended to be a more mature/realistic space "sim" which often draws from real-world influence (as is certainly seen in the series), I happened to contemplate GraphSim's old Hornet series (namely 3.0 and Korea). In these iterations of the Hornet flight simulator series, the loadout for the given sortie is determined by placing the desired weapon in an open/applicable slot on the loadout table.

Loadout tables vary in appearance in the real world (as is usual), but generally have similarities common throughout all variations. Typically the front profile of the given fighter/[other "flying" thing] will be displayed while "paths" of sorts will be drawn from a given weapon type to the pylons/weapon bays. I think this would suit Diaspora very well seeing as it is rather "down-to-earth," if you will... An example of a typical loadout table can be found here: http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/JJELLIS_PHOTO/RSAF%20F16D%20PB08/?action=view&current=DSCF2835.jpg

Accomplishing this would be interesting to see in FreeSpace, as you only have up to four secondary banks and up to three primarys (if my memory is correct). However, visual implementation might not be too bad (given you don't run into more of those odd visualization-denied-by-old-FS-scripting-limits... things...). A slot for the weapon would be provided near one of the weapon link-up paths, thus tying it into that given pylon area (not unlike the original FreeSpace series). On the opposite side of that path it would display the quantity of ordnance loaded. If necessary I could try and sketch a preliminary concept...

-Thaeris

[karajorma]

Problem is that the engine doesn't support it and the changes required fall very heavily into the feature creep area.

[redsniper]

I don't see how this is too far removed from what we already have. I mean, is a rotating 3d model really too high tech for BSG?

[Aardwolf]

A 'rotating model' is already supported (via a launcher flag)... but what Thaeris is describing sounds exactly like what FS2 already does, albeit with a front view picture instead of a top-view one.

[redsniper]

oh right, not everyone uses that flag...

[Ace]

Once again, changing the top-down view to a front view for the ship, and the missiles, and changing the placement of the secondary icons would require code changes.

To make it really fit with that sort of outload system, every hardpoint would have to be its own secondary rack according to the loadout screen, and in-game "secondary banks" would have to be organized by weapon type. (otherwise you'd have a list of 6 different weapons per ship or so)

That's quite a lot of code to overhaul.

[Thaeris]

Agreed. I recall reading in the "Interface Art" thread about how problematic it is to change even minor things with the UI due to coding limitations. I in fact mentioned that I was aware of some of these problems in my initial post.

On a second note, I DO think that discussing ideas for the interface is not a bad idea. That is of course why forums like this exist. I started working on a basic design for the Viper Mk II loadout as well, actually. If I have it done later tonight I'll post it as an attachment.It certainly can't hurt...

-Thaeris

[Aardwolf]

Once again, changing the top-down view to a front view for the ship [...] would require code changes.

Unless I'm misreading you, that alone would require no code changes whatsoever. It's a bitmap. Change bitmap to front view --> display is of front view. Simple as that.

[Ace]

It's not a bitmap, it's a model.

[Thaeris]

It's a model? I suppose that makes sense. In that case, the line drawings I've been working on to demonstrate my concept are actually made in a 3D CAD program (Inivis AC3D). And if you wanted to use a bitmap, couldn't you simply create a rectangle and texture it? That IS a model, after all...

-Thaeris

[Aardwolf]

Ok, you're probably talking about something else, but I was talking about this:



Or you've gotten too used to the "Use models for ship selection" launcher option...

[Ace]

Even if using bitmaps, to alter the placement of objects in the GUI requires new code, and is at the moment a low priority over other more critical features.

[karajorma]

Ok, you're probably talking about something else, but I was talking about this:



Or you've gotten too used to the "Use models for ship selection" launcher option...

Doing that wouldn't allow us to fill the hardpoints though. It would only allow us to fill those boxes with weapons.

[Thaeris]

Couldn't finish the concept design last night - Rather, we (my family and myself) were helping my sister and her husband prepare for their flight to Ghana. I'll try to get a release done for this evening (albeit probably LATE).

-Thaeris

[Thaeris]

This is quite long in the tooth, I know, but I just wanted to make this available to anyone who might want it:

This is the "line drawing" of the Viper Mk.II I made with AC3D, with which I was going to produce a demonstration load-out screen. As you might have guessed, I never finished that project. However, if someone would like to use the image, feel free. Below are both the source .ac file (which can be opened with Blender) and a sample image of what the model looks like (yes, it's 2D only).

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Ace]

Thaeris, if you'd be willing to do some more line art like (front, top, maybe rear views) that for ships like the MKVII, Raptor, Bolitho, and Theseus, it'd be usable for a tech manual to go with R1 that I've been toying around with.

[Thaeris]

That's an interesting idea. I think line art like that is best for forward profiles, though, as it is a bit more "stylized." If you know of a good render of the Raptor and the Mk.VII from the shows, I can make ones similar to the Mk.II as seen below. Just to make a note, the Mk.II drawing was made from the official Zoic multiviews. The Bolitho and Theseus would require you to give me a render, preferably in isometric format.

In terms of orthographic drawings, I can make those as well, but I'd much prefer to make them from the meshes being used for the offical Diaspora release. All I need to do is offset the model and draw a line about the model edges/points of interest on the textured mesh. That way, you'll get a diagram that lines up perfectly. It's what every nerd/enginerd wants... 

[newman]

Don't bother with the Raptor. When I was making the screens for a raptor cockpit I actually made vector ortho drawings of it in Illustrator, so we got the raptor covered. Probably best if a vector drawing tool is used for this purpose.
At any rate, tracing a ship like that can be done in a really short time, so if we actually get to the point of making a manual as Ace suggests, we can just do those on the spot.

[Thaeris]

I figured that would be the case.

Regardless, now that I've posted that project... which I've not finished... would you like me to try and finish it? Well, at least to demonstrate the concept - I'll draw some pylons on the Viper, the appropriate station names, as well as the "weapon insert" boxes with the lines to the guns/hardpoints. The system is really no different in terms of how FS/mods of FS actually does it already, but it would look like an armaments selection table...

[Thaeris]

On a whim, I went out and worked on the concept a bit more. Strange it took me so long to make it more complete, as the modeling for this kind of work is ludicrously easy.

Thus, this or something similar is what I'd like to see in-game:

Note that the .7z file contains the geometry of the drawing - it is in AC3D's .ac format, which Blender can easily open. If you need it in another format, please let me know.  

[attachment deleted by admin]