Author Topic: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts  (Read 3976 times)

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Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Simply said... what would GTVA's post-Capella fleet doctrine like? Here's my own attempt; I wrote this for a campaign I worked on for a while (called "New Horizons"), currently on hold/postponed for a long time...

I wanted something that goes beyond the usual "bigger, with more beams" or "new, with more tech". This is somewhat based upon what Volition intended for FS2 (capships with specific gameplay related roles), and Venom/Nico made for OTT (which is more or less the strict application of the first). My own idea was to make use of the tech displayed in FS2 rather than to create new (hence almost all ships are updated versions of their retail equivalents).

Thoughts? Anyone who has other fleet doctrines is of course welcome to post it, too.

At first, the main techroom entry for the "Future War Doctrine"/FWD:

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The Future War Doctrine (FWD) was GTVAs awnser to the massive Shivan fleet encountered during the Capella incident. Most notable were the over 80 Shivan juggernauts, which triggered the supernova; but the fleet also consisted of an incredible amount of fighters, bombers, cruisers, corvettes and destroyers. Since divising a strategy how to combat 80 juggernauts is rather a long term target of the Alliance, as being considered utopian with present technology, GTVA has issued a doctrine how we can atleast make the most of what we have - deal as much damage to the Shivans and save as many civillians as possible.

The FWD is a syncretism of several papers issued by the most different sources: political think tanks, military leaders that fought the Shivans at Capella, analysts of military corporations, even strategies of the former NTF made their way into it. It consists of 4 main parts: capital ships with dedicated roles (fighter destruction/carriers/anti-capship); enhancement and mass production of ships and weapons that played a vital role during the invasion of 2367, to find strategies to use them in a coherent fleet, and finaly, to keep civilian casaulties at a minimum. Mass production was considered critical since it increased the number of available weapons and ships by stratifying production while lowering prices at the same time, decreasing time between development and mass-use. A positive effect, especialy in the time shortly after the Capella-incident, was the boost given to the economy.

The first part is best visible in the Terran fleet, which took more damage then the Vasudan one during the NTF rebellion and Capella and has therefore a higher percentage of new ships. Analytics point out that while Shivan ships are extreme advanced, they are generic and not optimised for certain roles. It has been deducted that the key to gain the upper hand is to create ships with dedicated roles - anti-fighter corvettes (Deimos), artillery frigates (Iceni) and command carriers (Hecate) - which can overpower their Shivan equivalents in their role. Implementing this strategy was a fairly easy task that was compatible with the existing ship classes - in the cases of the Deimos and the Iceni, only a few turrets had to be relocated or exchanged, while the internal systems remained the same. Cruisers play no role in the current Terran fleet; their mainstay is the Deimos corvette, a versatile ship that can now negate wings of small craft and keep medium capships at bay while having - unlike the old Aeolus - enough armor to survive prolonged engagements. The next larger ship is the Iceni, the former NTF flagship and a perfect metaphor for GTVAs post-Capella politics: despite being initially extreme expensive to build, GTVA pressed for their mass production due to their offensive firepower rivaling the old Orion destroyer, was capable to lower the price and thereby turned the symbol for the hatred the NTF caused into one that stands for the peaceful reconstruction efforts. The Hecate has increased its carrier role with the enlargement of its fighterbays thanks to the new robotic systems and more effective reactors. Even more important, the expansion of their docking bay has allowed the Hecate to become a logistic hub and field repair station for capital ships as well, greatly increasing the autonomy of their attending fleet.

Fighters and bombers were already highly specified at the beginning of the Great War, and their weapons were too. While a diverse set of small craft was necesary then, a single ship could carry only a very limited set of weapons, so pilots could only adapt to very few goals while the missions could be highly dynamic. Also, due to their relative low cost, outdated ship classes were left in service for too long and blockaded financial and industrial capacitys which weren't available for modern ships. With the invention of TAG missiles, the role of fighters changed fundamently, therefore only 3 fighters-classes still serve in the Terran fleet instead of 8 in 2367, stratifying both development and production. The Perseus interceptor received the critical issue of TAGging hostile fighters and bombers with the task of destroying them has been taken over by capital ships, in particular the Deimos. The most powerful space superiority fighter ever built, the Mara-based Hercules Mark III, provides long-range support to friendly bombers and disarment strikes via its Trebuchets. A special note deserves the GTF Skadi, a heavy assault/stealth reconassaince hybrid which is ideal for devastating surprise attacks.

In 2370, a technical report showed that some of the weapons used then had very similar functions, such as the Harpoon (medium range anti-fighter) and the Trebuchet (long range anti-bomber). While this was quite efficient during the Great War, it limited GTVAs performance against the Shivans at Capella, especially their new Nahema bomber. The GTVA therefore concentrated on the weapons that pilots and analytists regarded as most effective and valueble: The Prometheus, the Kayserstrahler and the Maxim as primary weapons; the Tornado, the Trebuchet and the Cyclops as secondaries. Taking advantage of the technological progress, engineers and scientists combined weapons, with results like the Vasudan Tempeth cannon, which incorparated the warhead of the Tempest dumpfire rocket into the uranium shells of the Maxim. Its speed and range were below the original gun, but still far above the Tempest and while the Maxim was barely able to cut through shields, it became capable to deal tremendous damage to hull, shields and subsystems while consuming only 40% of the space the Tempest needed.

A main center of activity was the Trebuchet: its extreme range and high payload sparked the interest of command - if this weapon could be decreased in size while maintaining its power, it would gain maneuverability and could take over the role of the Harpoon as well, becoming a weapon that would threat fighters, bombers and even cruisers from a distance of up to 5 kilometers. It took 12 years until its overhauled version entered mass production in 2382, but it gave the GTVA a weapon that was deadlier than any known Shivan equivalent. GTVA also continued development of the Cyclops, until both projects eventualy crossed their way: with the ultra high explosive MAX-66, that was initially used for the Maxim gun, and Uranium being replaced by Californium it became possible to scale down the size of the nuclear warhead of the Cyclops until it fitted into the casing of the original Trebuchet. The results are staggering: the Stormshard is a comparable fast bomb with medium range (range was sacrificed for speed) and the payload of the Cyclops that could be fired from a fighter. Still being unable to produce the Helios without limitation and to use the Meson Bomb tactical, the Alliance had atleast found a way to chew through Shivan craft up to destroyer-size.

Tactical integration of all technologies developed is well under way. The Trebuchet for example replaced the age old MX-52 as missile turret on capital ships, and the AWACS system, previously used only on highly specialised ships, has become the standard sensor array for all Terran and Vasudan capital ships of Corvette-size and above. The TAG missile has become the main tool of combined strikes: being put into service during the early stages of the second Shivan incursion, even its fast enhancement wasn't enough to compensate the lack of compatible hardware aboard allied capital ships. Further development and especialy fleet wide implementation of the 'Ultra AAA'-cannons and the Infyrno-based Cluster flak has convinced every pilot who has seen them cutting through entire wings of heavy bombers that these missiles were not a waste of money. An alternative version of TAG missiles was created specificly to transmit coordinates for SubSpace Missile artillery (Atalanta SSM); due to their high cost and other technologies like the Stormshard they will play only a niche role.

The final point was to create a strategy about how civilians could be quickly evacuated from an entire system if necessary. As a first step GTVA has reformed its logistic - both military and civilian - entirely. All obsolete or unsuitable ships such as the Hippocrates, the Poseidon and the Elysium were disposed and replaced with modern ships such as the Triton. The Argo has become the sole transporter of the interstellar personal trafic, which has been turned into a public monopole in order to finance the construction effort. GTVA has lowered - some would say erased - boundaries between military and civilian ships which are in its public services, especialy transports and medical ships, for not only in the Shivan wars but during all major civil wars (NTF rebellion and the Hammer of Light) laws that should protect civillians were disregarded and transports proved to be easy prey to their attackers. A symbol of this new doctrine is the GTT Exodus - the largest transporter ever build, capable of moving a quarter million people at once, featuring medical facilities similar to that of the Hippocrates as naturally as AAA-turrets, military grade armor and powerful engines. Command believes that with current transportation capacities (200 Exodus ships and thousands of Argos), the 250 million Capellans could have been evacuated within a single week.

Further tactical adjustments mostly involved the way operations and logistics have changed with the improvements of both old and new ships. Besides the already mentioned logistic and cargo modules aboard the Hecates give these carriers and their attending fleet more autonomy; the Triton has erased the need for deep space cargodepots. Dual use played an important role during the reconstruction effort; numerous formerly civillian ships were replaced with military equivalents, what helped with the financiation. The increasing prices - especialy in the transport sector, but basically through all sectors - put enormous strain on the economy and ultimatly, the society as well.


Here's a more detailed overview of the Terran fleet - no need to read everything, the most important ones are the Deimos, the Iceni and the Hecate:


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GTF Hercules Mark III (GTF Menelaos from INFR1)
The Hercules Mark III was introduced in 2378 as a more reasonable and cost-effective heavy assault fighter. While some pilots of the Mark II pointed to the weakness of its comparable slow speed, GTVA Command critisized its primary firepower, especialy in comparission with the expensive Erinyes. In order to overcome these flaws, the designers of Freedom Corporation devised a model with most of its systems are directly based on study of captured Shivan Maras. Also, being one of the first fighter designs to be equipped with a meson-catalyzed fusion reactor, this ship can power 8 primary gunmounts (as many as the old Erinyes) and a high-powered engine. Thanks to this combination of advanced Terran reactors and Shivan engineering the Hercules Mark III has a high topspeed and afterburner power without the expence of reduced missile loadout. Thanks to these breakthroughs the 'Terran Mara' can be considered not only as an next-generation Hercules but an enhanced version of the Erinyes as well - only faster, deadlier and much cheaper.


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GTF Perseus
The GTF Perseus interceptor has increased its maximum speed and maneuverability, which make it ideal to hunt small enemy ships and bombs. With the task of destroying them being taken over by the Deimos, its main purpose is now to expose hostile fighters and bombers to their extreme deadly AAA and Cluster flak cannons via the TAG missile system. Despite this, the Perseus can still deal with them on its own if the mission requires it, thanks to weapons such as the Trebuchet and a powerful shielding system.


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GTB Tigris
The Tigris is the unquestioned king of heavy bombers. With an enormous payload capacity and a twin reactor output to rival a small transport, a squadron of these bombers is capable of taking down a Ravana-class destroyer without the aid of allied capital ships. Its state-of-the-art armor allows it to withstand a significant amount of punishment on the battlefield, and its high top speed makes it ideal for hit-and-run attacks.

The creation of the Tigris was the direct result of the allied assaults on the SD Nebiros (Ravana-class), whose numerous bomber wings decimated allied refugee transports at Capella. All attempts to hunt it down ended with the escape of said ship and the destruction of most deployed bombers. The Artemis, that was fast enough to catch up didn't had a strong armor and couldn't provide enough firepower against a destroyer, while the Boanerges was too slow and barely maneuverable, ultimatly causing both to miss their target and become prey to the Nebiros and its fighter escort.

While it was considered a keen move to put the efforts of all Terran engineers behind creating a single bomber to replace a palette of 6 different classes during the NTF-Capella era, it payed off very well, especially with the different role of bombers in the fleet after the development of the Stormshard anti-cruiser bomb which can be deployed by a large fighter. GTVA Strategy suggests to use these bombers to disarm and weaken the largest of Shivan warships so that other GTVA vessels such as a squad of Iceni-frigates can finish them off.


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GTCv Deimos
Deimos-class corvettes are now the mainstay of the Terran fleet. These sleek warship designs focus on maximizing maneuverability and firepower, and their hulls are strengthened with collapsed-core molybdenum sheathing for better protection. Since the Leviathan, Fenris and Aeolus cruisers of the Great War and reconstruction era have been phased out, the purpose of these corvettes is to negate wings of smaller craft like the Aeolus did while having enough armor to survive bomber and cruiser attacks.

The idea for its current role initially came from GTVI analyst Dr. Moreland, who observed that a single slash beam was - depending on angle - easily able to cut through an entire bomber formation, and therefore concluded that a capital ship would be more effective in destroying small craft than fighters. He combined this with the lessons learned from the GTC Aeolus-class, a capital ship that was already capable of destroying fighter- and bomber-wings with ease but frequently perished when attacked by other capital ships or during prolonged engagements. A larger ship could absorb more damage to the point a single fighter isn't a threat anymore.

While the Deimos already played the role Dr. Moreland had envisioned to a certain degree at Capella, there were quite a few engineers who said that it could have done much better. They claimed that the turret layout was highly inefficient - the best positions with the by far largest field of view were reserved for the derelict Terran-Vasudan war-era 'Huge Turrets', which consumed much space, had a low energy-use/damage ratio and a high miss factor. Instead, they now host the 4 flak cannons while providing bunker space for the new Infyrno-based 'Cluster Flak' shells. The energy was instead directed to 4 addontional AAA cannons (now 8 in total), of which atleast 2 already would have been possible with the reactors available in 2367, while most of the addontional energy provided by the MCF reactor is used to turn the Deimos into the fastest and most maneuverable capital ship of the Alliance.


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GTFg Iceni
The first Iceni was the command frigate of the NTF, built under the personal direction of their leader Admiral Aken Bosch. With over two dozen turrets and a sheath of ultra-dense depleted uranium shielding around its subsystems, the Iceni-class is an extremely tough nut to crack, and despite its much smaller size it has taken over the anti-capital role of the outdated Orion destroyer.

Apart from the Demon-class destroyer, it has been witnessed that all major Shivan vessels pack most of their fire power on their front part. The Iceni exploits this weakness by engaging them in old Earth sea navy style broadside combat. Therefore it relies more on speed and maneuverability and only has an average armor. Unlike the original Iceni, this ship now has 4 instead of 3 heavy beam emitters - 2 on each side. While in broadside engagement, only one side is active to enable the rapid fire mode. Using both sides simultaneously requires to overcharge the reactors, what can be done only for a few minutes and slows down the fire rate.

Since the end of the NTF rebellion and the reconquest of the Freedom shipyards in Polaris it has become the mainstay of the Terran fleet along with the Hecate and the Deimos, and although some Vasudans were shocked to see this ship again, its - quite expensive - production has become the symbol of the reunification and reconstruction of both, the GTVA and the former NTF systems, giving especially Polaris prosperity and pride once again.


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GTD Hecate
The GTD Hecate class of destroyers has replaced the Orion class as the flagship of Terran battle groups. Being the central command carrier, the Hecate has benefitted from the invention of meson-catalyzed fusion reactor and robotics, increasing their carrying capacity to 225 combat spacecraft while decreasing the needed crew to 7,000. Instead of 2 frontal cannons the Hecates now boasts a single super-heavy beam cannon, while the strategy remains to keep them out of direct combat as much as possible. In addition to their carrier role these destroyers provide field repair stations (even for other capital ships), freight hauling capabilities and medical facilities for their attending fleet, greatly increasing their autonomy and efficiency. Due to their large strategic importance its armor has been reinforced significantly.

Yet the addontional logistic and medical modules are only the foreshadowing of an entirely new generation of Terran destroyers currently in the planning phase and inspired by the GTExAddon program for the Arcadia, where the main ship is reduced a provider of basic functions such as power generation, mobility, maneuverability and point-defense protection while the fighterbay, logistics and even some of the main beam cannons (similar to mounting the old Mjolnir on an Argo transport) have been externalized as modules which can be added or removed as the operation requieres it.

For now, the GTD Aquitaine, the former flagship of the Capella-fleet remains a superb example of this ship class, it has been the flagship of the entire Terran-Vasudan Navy from the destruction of the Colossus to the introduction of the GVCa Nile, and remained the Terran one until the Bastion was ready.


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GTSD Bastion
Named after the destroyer that saved mankind twice, the GTSD Bastion is the flagship of the Terran fleet. It is about as large as the GVCa Nile and the second largest ship ever built by the GTVA after the Colossus. Unlike the 6 kilometer long behemoth, that was destroyed during the second Shivan incursion, this rather sleek design with about 4 kilometer length has an exactly thought through purpose - to provide strategic-aware firesupport in key offensives. Due to its size, it can - unlike ususal ships - house not a single but a multitude of 3 different turret sets, which can be - like an ETS grid - be powered up or down as the situation requires it.

The first set consists of its 2 colossal main cannons which are designed to make full use of the energy provided by its 3 reactors in order to combat Juggernaut-class ships at long range, or lay waste to destroyers in as little time as possible. Command plans to use this advantage via precision subspace jumps behind the target.
Should the Bastion be outmanuevered by its target or attacked directly by a hostile fleet, it can make use of its secondary arnament - 10 heavy beam cannons, 2.5 times the power of the Orion and more than the Colossus, yet it would have to reduce the power of its main cannons significantly.
All further arnament is restricted by the large amount of space consumed by the reactors and the energy use of its main weapons. Therefore it has replaced several of its standard turrets by Tempeth cannons, which require almost no energy and rather less bunker space than flak turrets. Instead of the usual Trebuchets, the Bastion mostly uses the smaller Stingray swarm missile. While this limits the long-range effectivity against small targets, it makes the ship an absolute killer in close combat.

Due to lack of space inside the main frame, the fighterbays have been externalized, but still their size remains rather limited. Therefore the Bastion is usually supported by its escorting destroyers Scimitar and Claymore.


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GTSG Myrmidon (sentry gun version of GTF Myrmidon)
Initially mocked as 'Zombie-Watchdog' and 'Scrapyard-Sentry', the old Myrmidon has found itself a new purpose. When they were dismissed alltogether from their former space superiority role 4 years after the introduction of the Hercules Mark III (just at the same time the advanced version of the Trebuchet entered mass-production) they were equipped either with the guidance system of the Amazon Model IV, of which several were discovered in an old GTVA depot, or the  neural-net cyber-AI from the GTSG Alastor.

Most primary banks, the subspace drive and the no longer needed cockpit with its life support system were traded for addontional secondary weapons (in most cases Trebuchets), the energy was used to maximize shield power. While causing extreme low costs, they turned out to be the most deadly small sentry guns ever made with a range of up to 5 kilometers. Unlike all classical sentry guns these defense drones are no sitting ducks for they have a shield system and can move if necessary.

With an ever decreasing number of deep space cargo depots, GTVA is trying to find new araes of use for them - either as defense drones around capital ships and installations, so that the manned fighters can go into the offense, to cover a retreat, or as traps that can remain inactive for days and then attack from nowhere.


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GTSG Titan (C920s Goliath)
The GTSG Titan is the most advanced sentry gun device known. Unlike previous models, the Titan is not directed against hostile fighters or bombers - this task has been taken over by the Myrmidons - instead, it can damage even ships of destroyer size. Being towed into position by an Argo transport, the permanent addition of one can also make the Titan a fully mobile weapon, as it uses its own independent power source and requires no crew to man its automated weapons. Unlike its progenitor, the Mjolnir, its main turret has a larger field of view.

Opponents of the strategy have argued that during the initial stages of the Great War the Shivans performed jumps between systems that were considered too unstable or entirely unknown - an argument that was also used when GTVA Command decided to seal of Capella, where no such events occured. While it is still risky, Command believes that node fortification could become a central key to fight the Shivans, who have shown little to no interest in usual military categories like controling territory or resources, while controling jump nodes seems to be rather important to them.

Observers have warned that while such fortifications can indeed help delaying the advance of hostile forces, a dramatic shift towards them would take resources away from the production of mobile units which are utterly necessary for the Alliance, for the Shivans possess enough raw firepower to break through every node blockade GTVA is able to set up.


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GTT Exodus (Regulus Paradise from MT)
The disastrous defeat at Capella has shown GTVA that in future confrontations with the Shivans the fate of the Alliance might depend upon the ability to evacuate an entire system in a very short time. Though the evacuation was labeled a success in the end, many Terrans have been killed due the very limited combat abilities and weak armor of their transports - exclusivly civillian ships such the Hippocrates and the Great-War-Era Elysium all perished quickly when they came under attack by Shivan bombers.

This class was conceived as new a instrument particular with the Shivan threat in mind, completely ignoring the usual boundries between military and civillian ships. Being a corvette sized ship, it is capable of evacuating over 250.000 at once, far more than any other transport. A new lightweight armor and an advanced propulsion system make it over 10 times more resistent than previous designs.

The Exodus also inherited the Hippocrates on-board facilities which can provide state-of-the-art medical care to thousands of patients. Though not visible from the outside, the unusual design of the Hippocrates, which enabled its crew to isolate sections of the ship quickly in the event of quarantine or hull breach were also transferred to Exodus, although they (some Hippocrates hulls were reused in order to minimize costs) now reside in a far safer place.


And some of the weapons:


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The Tempeth cannon is the logical evolution of the old dumpfire missiles. By the time of the second Shivan incursion, missile and gun technology were so advanced that the easiest way to improve them further was to combine them: a high-velocity mass-driver cannon accelerates Tempest-warhead-sized pills of MAX-66 high explosive stored inside the Maxims' uranium slugs along its smoothbore barrel.

Using a gun instead of a missile allowed it to remove the engine, thereby more than doubling the amount of warheads that can be stored in the same volume. Unlike the old Maxim projectiles, which had a difficult time penetrating energy-based shields, it can now cut through them with ease, while having an even more devastating effect on hull plating and subsystem armor. Though it has a somewhat slower speed and a lower fire rate compared with the Maxim due to its heavier projectiles - 1350 m/s instead of 1800 m/s - it still dwarfs the results of the Tempest missile (360 m/s and 600 meter range).

Due to its massive power Command has put addontional resources to the development of the Tempeth in order to fix one of the main issues the Maxim had - the vibrations caused by firing the gun made precision strikes over the full range of the weapon extreme though while causing damage throughout the entire fighter, making the Maxim particular unpopular with repair teams. The Active Electronic Anti-Shudder System compensates the and allows the pilot to strike at the full range of 3.6km while causing less work for the repair crews.

These abilities made the Tempeth also interesting for use on larger craft. Compared with the 'Standard Flak Turrets', the standard point-defense weapons of Terran capitals, this weapon has a vastly increased range, a higher fire rate and an improved accuray. Unlike normal fighter weapons which usually put significant punctual stress on the ETS systems of capital ships, the Tempeth also has a lower energy use than typical fighter weapons while requiring only 25% of the bunker space of the 'Standard Flak' shells. Command is pondering whether to replace the old turrets once and for all by a Tempeth-derived system optimized for all GTVA ships of cruiser size and above. Until such a weapon is ready and implemented fleet-wide it would take several years, however, and for now the Bastion is the only ship using this gun.


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The Trebuchet was developed as a long-range, anti-bomber missile with an effective range of 5,000 meters, while also utilizing the latest in precision targeting technology for short lock times. The Trebuchet plays a vital role in defensive missions, enabling escort and patrol fighters to intercept incoming fighters and bombers without straying from the ship or emplacement under attack.

After showing its tremendous strategic potential during the second Shivan incursion, the Trebuchet became a key element of the FWD fleet doctrine, thanks to its numerous advantages over the similar Harpoon: higher speed, extreme range, with enough subsystem and hull damage potential to allow pilots to destroy systems on capital ships such as main turrets or engines. However, a few weaknesses had to be eliminated - due to their size, fighters could carry only low quantities of them, and they were comparable easy to evade.

After several updates, the targeting circuits were enhanced and the size was slightly reduced. The use of MAX-66 allowed to scale down the warhead without loosing power, while the electromagnetic launch-mechanism first used on the Stingray lowered the fuel requirement. Although they are still larger than the Harpoon, the newly developed fighter classes can carry almost as many of these high-end weapons as before, giving GTVA's fighter- and bomber-craft a considerable advantage over Shivan forces.

These benefits persuaded GTVA command to replace the age old MX-52 missile turrets - which were outdated already at the beginning of the Great War almost half a century ago - with this system.


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The TAG-AAA missile is the most precouis piece of electronic warfare equipment. Its well protected 'warhead' can penetrate through hull and shields of hostile ships, delivering a FPS (Fire Positioning System) on the inside. Instead of using its own energysource like earlier versions, the TAG-AAA uses an induction coil that allows it to tap into the targets power in order to locate it for over 1.5 minutes instead of just a few seconds - exposing the tagged ship to the deadly Ultra-AAA cannons and the new Cluster Flak shells which have enough firepower to kill every known small Shivan craft within seconds.


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The Stormshard is one of the 2 new species the former Cyclops evolved into thanks to the breaktroughs that came with the intense development. The replacement of Uranium by Californium, and the use the advanced explosive MAX-66 increased the efficiency per size of the Cyclops again by 50 percent, which itself already was 1.5 times stronger than the Tsunami.

While the original, large Cyclops casing now houses the warhead with the same power as the dreaded Harbinger bomb that is being delivered by the Atalanta SSM, the Stormshard uses the same technology to scale down the warhead until it even fits into a hull with the size of the original Trebuchet missile. Unlike the Long-Range missile, however, the Stormshard values speed over range in order to decrease the possiblity of being shot down since the warhead is quite heavy.

Although it entered service only 7 years ago, mass production has already been started as its incredible advantages - high speed, small enough to be carried by a fighter - make it one of the weapons GTVA considers as essential for any future conflict.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 06:02:17 pm by Nightmare »

 

Offline JSRNerdo

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine
Here's my own attempt; I wrote this for a campaign I worked on for a while (called "New Horizons"), which sadly died before I could even announce it due to the release of Exile, for I managed to predict 75+% of its major plotpoints (the plot itself would've been fairly different, however)... :(

That's no reason to scrap it! If the gameplay's good, it will be good. iirc Exile too was basically based off a long-dead dumped project and built 90% of its plot on those concepts anyway, so that didn't stop them either!

e: Also, can I just say god DAMN I love the concept of using capital-grade slash beams for AA work. "Avoid the beam" you say???
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 10:47:28 pm by JSRNerdo »
Former Inferno lead, BTA fredder-ish and DE fredder. Driven out by ordinary fascists the_e, aesaar and general battuta. Will return if they're ever removed.

 

Offline Nyctaeus

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine
Here's my own attempt; I wrote this for a campaign I worked on for a while (called "New Horizons"), which sadly died before I could even announce it due to the release of Exile, for I managed to predict 75+% of its major plotpoints (the plot itself would've been fairly different, however)... :(

That's no reason to scrap it! If the gameplay's good, it will be good. iirc Exile too was basically based off a long-dead dumped project and built 90% of its plot on those concepts anyway, so that didn't stop them either!
Yup. Exile is loosely based on Project Outreach and also it's far descendant of Into the Depths of Hell. Additionally majority of FS mod projects here are basicly reinterpretation of existing ideas. If people cancel their projects due to similarity of basic plot ideas to other projects, there would be no WiH [another Sol-GTVA war], or Scroll [another expedition into unknown space]. Basic plot idea is just foundation for your mod. What makes your story epic is sheer amount of details built around it via multi-layer manner. BP is the most exceptional example, because BP uses two extremely overused concepts - chosen by destiny, and war between Earth and colonies, but thanks to outstanding lorebuilding around this two concepts, story of BP is better than 90% of current AAA games.

TL-DR: You should continue your project :P.

And you will see Bastion in basicly the same role in upcoming Inferno release.
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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine
My description of the Bastion was actually based on the INFR1 Apothess.

@JSRNerdo: I remember there was a Deimos called NTCv Danton IIRC in the FS2 main campaign which finished oppositional fighters with slash beams. The system here was - like most of the gameplay - based upon "A game of TAG"; I liked that somehow - just tag something, and the Deimos toasts it almost instantly (it was something I missed in BP). I didn't spice up the Ultra AAA; it would've been possible, but most targets didn't last for more than a few seconds anyway, and the TAG effect was to remain - thanks to the idea with the induction coils - for 90 sec or so. I wanted to see whether its possible to create ships which would be most likely overkill in most campaigns (not in this one, however) while using mostly FS2 retail weapons and without turning it into beamspam; also the player needed a task of course.


I still think that NH would've been fairly original and good, but finishing 33 missions is something really tough for me, and that although I already divided the story into 4 acts with ~8 missions each, alone to come close to releasing something (and even that I didn't managed, too). For my FRED skills... I can get to work what I want, but I'm not an enthusiastic FREDder; also I have a second campaign (yes, I know that working on 2 things simultanous is not a good idea) which has a setting that is really new to FS modding, and a bit to sci-fi in general (ok, ok... it's not entirely original, but still rather prishtine). I don't know whether I should announce any of them, because then there might be people who would expect me to finish that stuff... Here's the main idea I had for this...

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New Horizons

Decades after the Capella-Incident, the Terrans finaly return to Sol. But the hope that their journey will come to an end and all the sacrifices they had made have not been worthless turns into an illusion, for the Earth the GTVA-Taskforce encounters is unlike anybody in GTVA had expected.

Terrans are nowhere to be found.

All cities on the surface are now covered by a lush green forest, wildlife roams where starships once rose to the sky. All ships of GTAs former 1st fleet are drifting throughout the system, and the orbital installations are empty. Not damaged or destroyed, just empty - and not 'only' on Earth but everywhere in Sol... no sceletons, no debris, no notes... so what happend to mankind?

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine
Quote
Californium
I always wondered who named that element.

That said, while your take on future FS doctrine is good, I personally consider it somewhat odd ship get ultra-specialized, while weapons become multi-purpose.

In my own campaign the doctrine is diversity (in weaponry and designs), mass production and manouvre warfare. Of course, this requires proper scouting.
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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine
It is somewhat based upon the way BP explained that Shivan ships (their opponent) are set up - incredible advanced, but not directed. The fleet tries to adapt to this weakness - like the Iceni with its broadside cannons. Of course that bears the risk that the Shivans adapt, too...

Regarding diversity - imagine you have to fly an escort mission, you'll find yourself in front of several weapons that you can use...
-Short-range bomber suppression? Infyrno.
-Short-range fighter suppression? Piranha.
-Tactical bomber suppression? EMP Adv.

All of these weapons have a somewhat similar purpose, but even if you equip some of them to your wingmates, it's hard to use them really coherent.

I combined them to a weapon named Trianon - Explosive splitters (Infyrno), large central warhead that creates a shockwave (Piranha) and a EMP (EMP Adv.). While the Piranha (no homing submunition) and EMP (less range) loose some of their abilities, the resulting weapon is more powerful than any of the previous ones.
I viewed the dumpfire missiles as support for the primary cannons, that's why I thought the easiest why to develop them further is to combine them. I don't know how much space of the missile is filled out with the engine, but it seemed possible that by removing it you can probably double the amount of weapons you can take with you.

Californium is a real element, and there was a speculation whether Cf-251 could be used to built tiny nuclear weapons (but way too expensive), so I thought if GTVA can produce antimatter, they'd be able to do that too.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 07:57:06 am by Nightmare »

 
Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
OK, some new ship concepts that could be a tactical addition to GTVA atleast?

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Two questions:

1-Am I understanding things right that the GTVA still uses the Helios but that it's produced even less than FS2 now?


2-I really enjoyed reading about the improvements to various ship classes.  Are the AWACS ships still the same?  I could see an upgraded AWACS ship having heavier armor and slightly more defensive turrets.

 
Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
1- I thought they use it more frequent, with general updates (better lock/reload time, a bit more speed, little bit more damage), but not to the point that they could spit out tons of them to bomb a Sath to debris without capships as support.

2- I admit I didn't payed too much attention to the AWACS. I thought that with technological improvement, they might take 2 ways:
-a scaled down version to replace/improve the old standard sensor subsystem on capital ships in order to increase sensor range for uncovering stealth ships and provinding clear sight in nebulas (both at medium range). Most important is to handle the target position info provided by the TAG missile for precise strikes over 3+ km with Ultra AAA (and Cluster Flak).
-FS2 AWACS with their weak hull and big radar domes might be the best/easiest replacement for the science cruiser. The Faustus was from before the Great War, the Vasudans didn't even had one...
-Creating a heavy hulled AWACS for offensive electronic warfare seems interesting, especially with BP in mind. However, I thought SSMs are very expensive, compared with other weapons (even the Helios), and I wouldn't literally bet my life on that they are able to mess up Shivan electronics...

My idea for the fleet structure is to have 1 Hecate, 3 Icenis and 9 Deimos. Of course you can add an AWACS to that...
On the other hand you can link up the downscaled AWACS-like sensors of the individual ships to work coherently and create an AWACS system that doesn't depend on addontional ships that you must protect.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
What are they going to do with the Orion hulls now that Orions aren't used anymore?

 
Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Most likely scrap them. Maybe GTVA is building up a recycling industry. I'm not seeing a different option- you can upgrade an old ship, but that has limitations. Or they turn some of them into node busters...

 

Offline Firesteel

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Orions could be converted into the space forest ships from Silent Running as an out of left field idea.
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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
I remember Reciprocity used Orions as temporary homes for Capella refugees.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
There are a lot of things you'd do practically with what we see in FS2

  • At least one fighter in every wing is equipped with Trebuchets and/or Stilleto IIs to take out enemy beam cannons
  • Replace laser and flak turrets with banks of Morning Star or Maxim
  • Pack shielded bombers with Helios bombs and have them jump in very close to enemy warships and autopilot into them
  • Have large fleets conducting alpha strikes from subspace with beam weapons
  • Develop specialist installations with large numbers of beam cannons and park them beside jump nodes to destroy any unauthorised ship
  • Maintain destroyers packed with Meson bombs in every system so that any Shivan incursion can be sealed off as soon as you know where they're coming from
  • Specialist gunboats the size of Argos that arrive 5km away and unload a full payload of Trebuchets at every hostile in sight then jump out

A lot of the improvements they might make wouldn't make for a very fun game though.  I suppose it depends if you're looking to make some new campaign or if you're looking to see what would "realistically" happen.  I don't think a realistic FreeSpace would be much fun.
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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Probably the reason for this is that the modpack and the campaign are 2 seperate things I worked on. When I play games or see tech descriptions, I often come up quickly with the thought "what would I do to improve this?". I used what has been seen in FS2 in order to stay rather close to canon material, MT and probably BWO intended something similar IIRC, atleast for GTVA.

Gameplay-wise, I'm not sure whether a "realistic FS" would be good or bad, it's a balancing issue (but I see your point). My thought is that while this might be overkill in actual standard gameplay (FS2 main might be self-playing if all weapons available at the time were used properly), you can compensate this by having swarms of opponents.

 
Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Nice ideas :)

I have been working slowly on my advance version of the GVF Khepri with cockpit and pilot that might fit in all this somewhere. I'll see about posting something this weekend. My GVF Shu Mk V is also completed with the design phase and will do the same for posting as well. I just wish I had the time I did when I was single! :)

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Offline Nyctaeus

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
Nice ideas :)

I have been working slowly on my advance version of the GVF Khepri with cockpit and pilot that might fit in all this somewhere. I'll see about posting something this weekend. My GVF Shu Mk V is also completed with the design phase and will do the same for posting as well. I just wish I had the time I did when I was single! :)
:D

Well, I'm still single so knock to me if you need any conversion help or something like that.
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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
New Vasudan ships are always good, especially good looking ones like the Shus :)

I think Terrans and Vasudans would retain sperate fleets, but have a unified development/research structure; plus similar technical norms. The reason I focused more on the Terrans is that it seemed logical to me that the Terran fleet would have a higher percentage of new ships, for it was affected by both the NTF rebellion (on both sides) and at Capella.

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Almost 30 years after the NTF rebellion, Terran-Vasudan relations are at an all-time high, and the death of Khonsu II in 2377 brought no slowdown. Officer exchange programs now have become standard to the point that 20% of the crew of any ship above cruiser size consists of the other race, a measure that also effectively prevents rebellions such as the Hammer of Light and the NTF. To bundle development, both the Vasudan Empire and the Galactic Terran Republic fused their entire space industry into monopolist public enterprises (Khonsu Foundation and Freedom Corporation), which significantly increased their efficiency. All development projects such as the weapon arsenal are now being made in full cooperation, some of the smaller craft have the same interior (only cockpit and hull are different), and innovative technologies such as the Vasudan meson-catalyzed fusion reactor (MCFR), robotics or the advanced Terran armor and TAG system are much easier to integrate.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
The one thing I always look for in future doctrines is a few ideas that don't work out. There's never been a paper concept which survived its encounter with procurement, never mind actual combat.

 
Re: Post-FS2 fleet doctrine/New ship concepts
The one thing I always look for in future doctrines is a few ideas that don't work out. There's never been a paper concept which survived its encounter with procurement, never mind actual combat.
Sure. The fleet I was thinking about was dirceted against the Shivans, which are - to some degree - able to adapt. Anti-cap ship combat was to be executed mostly by Icenis (in broadside combat), so one could expect to see Shivan ships with better flanking coverage, requiring previous anti-subsystem strikes. This would allow the Shivans to flee the battlefield, and to go into offense elsewhere.