Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: ##UnknownPlayer## on September 16, 2003, 05:54:30 am
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Have just been ripping off some tech room code to implement the spinning 3D models of ships into the ship select screen to save modders some time out there. Just thought I'd let you know what I'm upto.
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Brilliant idea! The in-game ships are looking better and better, why waste time creating animations (or static images) for them when these can be used instead? I don't suppose a similar static top-down view could be used for weapon loadout?
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I'm working on replacing all the things that show ships using ani's and icons and such with images derived from the in-game models. I'll be moving onto that as soon as I iron out the bugs in this.
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You sir, are a legend.
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Ok I just commited the 1st functional version of it to the CVS. It doesn't do much other then make the model spin at the moment, but with a little work I think it might be possible to basically duplicate exactly what the ani's do for the ships (sans maybe the glows).
Unfortunately, this new code also means the old ani's are being made redundant since there's no simple way to choose one display method over the other (not with my attention span anyway :) ). At any rate - download, post any suggestions or total weirdness encountered here.
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Linky?
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I CVS committed it, so you'll need to compile it. I can't get into my web hosting right now so I can't put an exe online. Sorry.
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Is it impossible to implement a code that would handle both ani and the spinning ship or it isn't possible with the current interface.
I had a thought though: we could have an artistic picture of all the fighters - and it has to be "arty" - and the option to toggle to 3D realtime display.
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It's not impossible, just a lot more effort then I feel it would be worth, since almost no one will make the ani files of their fighters and with the improvements to the engine the 3D models are getting to look like a much better alternative. Plus, with my way, most graphical improvements will fly straight into the effect so once we get things like bump-mapping going it'll get even better.
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ok, standard yelling.
make something in the tables, where you specify wheter you want FS2 to make your sdhip spin, or you want the ani to do it.
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i would make the whole interface more simple here.
Replace that top-view PCX ship thing with the spinning model, and keep the right of the screen free, to finally be able to put more information there :)
The spinning ship would then be between the loadout brackets, always with the gun point(s) highlighted you've selected at the moment.
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Suppose you linked it to ships.tbl. If the loadout entry said "none" then display the ship model, otherwise display the animation. Easy.
Of course, this could be overridden with a command-line parameter.
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All valid suggestions, though I am a little concerned about being consistent in the interface. I left all the old code in, just commented out for now so I could do this quite easily. However right now I'm working more on ensuring it works properly.
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man that is good - why didn't people think of that before, thinking with in the box again eh? :D
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Has any progress been made on this? Is there an exe I could get my hands on for it?
Later!
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Certainly makes sense to me, it makes less work for the modder, and adds consistency to the game, specially when playing total conversions :)
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Suppose you linked it to ships.tbl. If the loadout entry said "none" then display the ship model, otherwise display the animation. Easy.
Well said. :nod: So now it looks up the original Volition green grid anis for the ones that exist, and for new mods you just put in None.
Are you putting in a grid and all, or is this just a spinning model? Remember to have a green light underneath it...
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Using ingame models saves a whole bunch on file size too. A bunch of tech room animations that are fully animated can take up huge amounts of space.
We might want to consider making 3D models of cannons and missiles to go in there as well.
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sounds kind of easy to make low poly meshes for those ( well, missiles already exist ), plus that allow a future possible feature for external weapons that show on a ship ( ala freelancer ), the meshes would already exist.
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We might want to consider making 3D models of cannons and missiles to go in there as well.
:wtf: But then it wouldn't be detailed enough!
I personally am in support of the 'either or' unless you can do Volition like animations since I'm working on a Blender tutorial about makeing Volition like ani's.
Though even if you could make the engine do the ss ani's it still wouldn't be like an animation. For instance you can have WAY more detail in a animation then you could get with a game engine. Besides high-poly real-time rendering can make low end system cry.
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Obviously, Hot, you've forgotten the detailed weapon models we have for the 158th. :D
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Obviously, Hot, you've forgotten the detailed weapon models we have for the 158th.
No, I do remember them.
They were meaning to use weapon models in the loadout screen like you would use ship models in the ship selection screen with ##UnknownPlayer##'s ss update.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Besides high-poly real-time rendering can make low end system cry.
Such models wouldn't be that kind of high-poly. IceFire and Venom meant that we should have models of weapons with, say, 700 polies instead of the current ones used in-game that have maybe 25 polies. A system capable of running FS2 at all will be able to handle 700 polies with ease.
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Such models wouldn't be that kind of high-poly. IceFire and Venom meant that we should have models of weapons with, say, 700 polies instead of the current ones used in-game that have maybe 25 polies. A system capable of running FS2 at all will be able to handle 700 polies with ease.
Quietly reminds Sesquipedalian of primary weapons.
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I'm all for having weapons model rendering, but if we do, could it be made to support models in the thousands of polys? Most 158th weapons (if I recall correctly) are in the area of 2k polygons.
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With the new HT&L you could make models with around 1,5k.
Though I suggest to use LODs for the weapons as well. Reason? Puttin them on the fighters in-game.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Quietly reminds Sesquipedalian of primary weapons.
:wtf: Yes... The idea is to build some models, so we'll build them to whatever specifications we need. What exactly is your issue here?
Originally posted by LtNarol
I'm all for having weapons model rendering, but if we do, could it be made to support models in the thousands of polys? Most 158th weapons (if I recall correctly) are in the area of 2k polygons.
Why not run a MultiRes modifier on them in max (or an equivalent in whatever program you use)? You should be able to reduce the poly count easily without sacrificing much in visual presentation.
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
:wtf: Yes... The idea is to build some models, so we'll build them to whatever specifications we need. What exactly is your issue here?
And I don't know yours. Are you meaning Freelancer like weapon system where you can see the guns on the ship? Otherwise I don't see the point of making models for this. :sigh:
*goes and tries to finish ss/loadout ani tutorial*
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First, 158th Primary Weapons models are in the 20k range, not the 2k range.
Second, we're dealing with one model on the screen here, not lots. I don't think the same poly limits apply.
Third, the point of making models for this is that, for most people, making a model for a weapon is a hell of a lot easier than making a model of the weapon, rendering it and building and ANI.
I'll make ~700 to 1500 poly models for the 158th weapons for sure.
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2k, 20k, minor detail; only 1 zero :p
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Sorry to bump this AGAIN, but I was flying Phreak's latest build (2003/10/04) and noticed that this feature was implimented. The ship ani in the ship select screen has been replaced by the rotating pof from the tech room. Now, this differs from the ani in that there is no green grid (so no glow reflecting off the ship's hull), the ship rotates slower than in the ani, and there isn't that thing where the ship starts out being scanned in in a top-down perspective, then transitions to the rotating profile. Now, we don't NEED these kind of additions and I don't know if any of you have plans to add these changes in, or even if its possible to do some of them, but at present the scan sound is still being implimented. I'd just like to know, if you have no plans to make said changes, or know they would be too hard or impossible to do, could you remove the scanning sound from the code... or would that screw up the display in the loadout screen too?
GE (or GalEmp), this new feature could save you a lot of ani work for the Port SCP edition.
Later!
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hint* maybe we should enable the wireframe thingy there? :D
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Sorry to bump this AGAIN, but I was flying Phreak's latest build (2003/10/04) and noticed that this feature was implimented. The ship ani in the ship select screen has been replaced by the rotating pof from the tech room. Now, this differs from the ani in that there is no green grid (so no glow reflecting off the ship's hull), the ship rotates slower than in the ani, and there isn't that thing where the ship starts out being scanned in in a top-down perspective, then transitions to the rotating profile. Now, we don't NEED these kind of additions and I don't know if any of you have plans to add these changes in, or even if its possible to do some of them, but at present the scan sound is still being implimented. I'd just like to know, if you have no plans to make said changes, or know they would be too hard or impossible to do, could you remove the scanning sound from the code... or would that screw up the display in the loadout screen too?
GE (or GalEmp), this new feature could save you a lot of ani work for the Port SCP edition.
Later!
the scaniong thing SHOULD ( I'm not coder, so I prefer to emphasize ) be possible to do:
we can already render wirefarmes, right? so first, you get a multipass render with the wireframe and the normal mesh. then we SHOULD be able to make the normal mesh appear like in the scanning ani: that's exactly what happens when a ship jumps in, right? voila, the basic idea is to mix both to get the effect.
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*cough* (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18012.0.html)
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we're talking real time 3D here :p
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Originally posted by Venom
we're talking real time 3D here :p
But why do that when you got a perfectly good way of making them? :confused:
I know, you just don't want to use Blender! :ha:
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1) yeah, I don't want to user blender
2) it's damn boring to make those
3) they're time consuming, does your walkrtrhough explains how to free some daily time? :p
4) they take a lot of place, so they're a pain to upload then download
Are those reasons enough for you? If not, I can probably make up a few others :D
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Originally posted by Venom
1) yeah, I don't want to user blender
//That's a hard one.
2) it's damn boring to make those
Really?! I think it's somewhat fun. :p
3) they're time consuming, does your walkrtrhough explains how to free some daily time? :p
No it doesn't explain how to free time, but it is faster then other ways of doing it. :p :ha:
4) they take a lot of place, so they're a pain to upload then download
Maybe for you, but I got DSL. So it's not a problem.
Are those reasons enough for you? If not, I can probably make up a few others :D
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
1) yeah, I don't want to user blender
//That's a hard one.
bleh :p
2) it's damn boring to make those
Really?! I think it's somewhat fun.
make a dopzen of those, then come back to me :p
3) they're time consuming, does your walkrtrhough explains how to free some daily time?
No it doesn't explain how to free time, but it is faster then other ways of doing it.
can't be faster than not doing them and letting FS2 rotate the ships for you :p
4) they take a lot of place, so they're a pain to upload then download
Maybe for you, but I got DSL. So it's not a problem.
I have DSL too, but, for exemple, my OTT data folder was around 200mb. Most of that being anis. uploading 200mb sux, even with DSL
Anyway, the code is there, no matter how much you can argue, so i've already won the argument :p :D :p
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1)I don't like blender ether
2)for BWO I made... a lot, I still like makeing them, even for both resolutions
3)it takes me all of five minutes to set up then all I have to do is hit render to file and walk away
4)this is a good point
people should have the option of useing ether, and I like this addition, thugh I did like makeing all those animations :(
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well my opinion is that FS2 should lok if there's an ani availble, if there's one, it uses it, if there's none, it uses the 3D view and that's it.
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I'd rather see it default to the 3d view, myself. The glowing green wires and draw-in effect or pretty unimportant from where I sit.