[StratComm]

But it's not gravity though... gravity contributes slightly less than 1G of the acceleration that a pilot will ever feel.  Take a 5 G loop for example (yes, a very tight loop I know, but use it for reference); gravity adds 1 g at the bottom of the loop, so the pilot is pressed into his seat with 6 g's of force.  However, at the top of the loop, the force experienced by the pilot will be in the opposite direction from gravity, so the force he feels pressing him to his seat is 4 g's.  In space, the 1g downward force is not present, but a similar loop (the same speed and radius) will still produce 5 g's of force on the pilot.   The only difference is that the pilot will feel those 5 g's all through the loop rather than more or less depending on how he is oriented to the ground.  In fact, according to your explanation of artificial gravity, the pilot would always experience exactly one g more than the acceleration caused by flying in a loop, as it is always pulling him towards the bottom of his spacecraft.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Oh, yea, also, I'd like some warnings! Like, for instance, you're hull's down really low, you get:

"WARNING! WARNING ! WARNING! HULL INTEGRITY! HULL INTEGRITY!"

yeah but wouldnt that help make the pilot panic? wich would make the situation worse? wich would make it easier to die?
arnt we sposed to avoid dying?

EDIT:
an Fs2 fighter does not have sufficient gravatinal pull to attrack much of anything visibile to a human....
does your car attract stuff on the ground? do you really think it would attract stuff in space?

for example
the Space shuttle (about the size of a small cruiser or transport) is massiver than Fs2 fighter and i dont see the astronauts sticking to it and i havnt heard astronats blacking out during manuvers in space (trajectory correction burns etc.)

the whole redout/blackout thing in space is quite unrealistic to say the least

(sry for the bad speelling)

[StratComm]

You missed the point Drew.  The gravitational attraction from a spacecraft of any kind would really be negligable (ok the mothership in ID4 would produce some gravity, but not anything in FS2 or real life), unless there is some form of artificial gravity in place.  However, the concept of feeling a manuver in space is very real.  The space shuttle does not produce enough thrust to produce significant acceleration and thus no significant force.  However, I would bet that astronauts in the shuttle do drift in the cabin in the same direction that the engines are firing; this drift, magnified by several dozen (if not hundreds) of times is the same thing that produces "G" effects in fighterplanes, and thus blacking out.  Thus it is not gravity in any form, it is acceleration.  The fighters in FS2 seem to be roughly equivalent to P-51 mustangs in terms of flight performance, so I don't see any pilots blacking out from combat manuvers.  But if you get ships going as fast and manuvering as hard as today's top-of-the-line combat aircraft can, then you'd run into the same problems with pilot endurance that modern militaries have to watch for.

[ChronoReverse]

Actually, the space shuttle's thrusters DO produce a lot of G-forces.  Remember, the solid fuel boosters are only doing half the work of lifting the whole jumbo into space (that giant fuel tank isn't there for decoration).

In any case, red outs and black outs are both caused by acceleration effects and not gravity.
However, as pointed out, artificial gravity is obviously being used in the FS universe so inertial dampening isn't too much of leap to accept.

[Trivial Psychic]

Back on topic of suggestions, I'd like to see an update to the escort list, allowing the display to show more than 3 ships... say 5 or 6.  I realize that you'd have to make new a hud ani to support this, and it would only funtion in higher-res (1024/768) mode, but it would be a serious advantage for escort missions.  If this is impossible, impractical, or otherwise undesirable, I'd like someone to tell me, or perhaps post it in the FAQ sticky thread.

Later!

[Goober5000]

It's certainly possible, but I'm not sure if it's a high priority right now.  For the time being, escort-priority works well enough for us.

[Trivial Psychic]

Maybe so, but if you're escorting 6 escape pods and only 1 through 3 are displayed, if you're in the heat of combat, how are you gonna know if 4-6 take dammage?

Thank you very much for the reply to this Goob.

Later!

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
In any case, red outs and black outs are both caused by acceleration effects and not gravity.
However, as pointed out, artificial gravity is obviously being used in the FS universe so inertial dampening isn't too much of leap to accept.

That's my thinking on the matter. FS2 capships obviously have artificial gravity (look at the mainhalls for proof of that) so that could be used to compensate for high G manouvers.

[Flaser]

It is obvious from the Mainhall....

Ugh. Do you see gravity there?

All I see is that everyone remains sticking to the floor or a lift, but this doesn't mean they do have artificial gravity.

Watch some Gundam or other space show anime where they hadn't had to bother with the constraints of filming live actors.

For all we know everyone could be walking around in magnetic boots (which is indeed seen in hall fight), or they could use something that would have similar effects like gravity.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Flaser
boots (which is indeed seen in hall fight), or they could use something that would have similar effects like gravity.

that was a a shivan ship for all we know they could have had artificial grav. but it was disabled when the craft was captured

besides shivans dont exactally need artifical gravity. if you read the FS bible you know that shivans were jumping around in space without suits and stuff...yet they wernt being shot off into space or drifting or whatever

anyway why would artificial gravity cause the pilot to blackout/redout??? you want your own ship knocking you out???

[ChronoReverse]

It is obvious from the Mainhall....

Ugh. Do you see gravity there?

All I see is that everyone remains sticking to the floor or a lift, but this doesn't mean they do have artificial gravity.

Look at it carefully.  There are several things that show that either gravity is present or that Volition was too lazy to bother with showing the effects without it.

#1
Watch the guy going down the lift.  After that he _walks_ down stairs.  The acting of walking down stair requires gravity.  It is possible without gravity, but you would have to pull yourself down using either you legs or arms resulting in a quite unnatural looking posture.  The man walk down as if there wasn't any sort of difference.

#2
The guy in the chair.  He is _leaning_ on his elbow.  I can't see how this would be comfortable in zero-g.  Also, when you hover the mouse over him, he turns towards you.  Unless his entire rear end and back is also magnetically stick to his chair, the top of his body would noticeably turn past you a bit when he's trying to face you (since only his shoes are attached).  In addition, he will also semi-standing up having nothing to keep his rear on the chair while his legs turn him.


In any case, wlkng with magnetic boots in zero-g looks quite different from normal walking (since it's not really walking strictly by definition, that is, falling and catching yourself using the other foot).

[edit]  Also, the shape of Terran capital ships make it quite impossible to have rotational acceleration as a source of pseudo-gravity.  They could only possible rotate along the length of the ship (due to it's shape), but since the distances involved are so small (yes it's actually small for this application), the "gravity" generated would be accompanied by a noticable sideways pull.  Not to mention the motion sickness.

Shivan ships seem to have no gravity.  In fact, the scientists expressed a degree of surprise at that and comments that perhaps Shivans evolved in zero-G.

[/edit]

[Bobboau]

wathc hallfight, they talk about how we knoked out there gravity, they were of course assuming that the shivans had gravity to begin with, also you can see the odd way in wich they walk as ther boots suck them to the floor

[Woolie Wool]

Shivans don't have gravity on their ships because they don't need it and it is unfamiliar to them. Terran and Vasudan ships, by contrast, seem  to have gravity, judging from the mainhalls.

And didn't the commanding officer in the command brief cutscene walk a few steps at some point in a very normal way?

[HotSnoJ]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Actually, the space shuttle's thrusters DO produce a lot of G-forces.  Remember, the solid fuel boosters are only doing half the work of lifting the whole jumbo into space (that giant fuel tank isn't there for decoration).

I thought it was for fuel?!

[StratComm]

We were refering to the manuvering thrusters all around the shuttle, but you're very right.  Those main engines do generate a lot of thrust.

Ok, so we have established that GTVA ships (at least the large ones) have artificial gravity.  I would guess that fighters do not, or at least not to a full degree.  However, in the context of the discussion the point is moot, as it is not artificial gravity nor the lack thereof that contributes to blacking out.  I think blacking out has no place in freespace, (since it involves a lot of calculation, all the time, for something that the AI will ignore and which will only serve to be annoying as sin) but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Flaser
It is obvious from the Mainhall....

Ugh. Do you see gravity there?

Who says I was refering to FS2? Reload FS1 and watch the sparks coming off the Herc being repaired. No amount of magnetic boots will help you there.

[Hippo]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Shivans don't have gravity on their ships because they don't need it and it is unfamiliar to them. Terran and Vasudan ships, by contrast, seem  to have gravity, judging from the mainhalls.

And didn't the commanding officer in the command brief cutscene walk a few steps at some point in a very normal way?

But we don't know that they had no gravity... The CO in the movie did walk normal, even with magnetic boots...

THe T=V ships DO have gravity though... Of that we are certian:
The underside of the small elevator in the aquitane has hoses hanging from it, and why would the guy on the options screen in the galatae hall be leaning?

[ChronoReverse]

Yes, artificial gravity doesn't contribute to blackouts and redouts at all, HOWEVER, the capability of generating artificial gravity means that it's quite plausible that there's in fact a form of inertial dampening in the fighters.

[Flaser]

I had a thought once:

The AGrav we speak of is in fact a low power sub-space field or constant warp.
It is created by using all the subspace conducts that are present in a capship - they simply put a low potential on the system and it creates a weak warp in space.
By amplying more power to lower conducts a warp difference is created that in effect creates a constant acceleration similar to gravity.

So it is not artificial gravity (after all it's not gravitational force) but something that simulates it quite well.

Oh...what are subspace conducts?

I thought that 'cause capships are so huge they need some amplyfying device to make the whole ship vibrate in syncron.

These are the subspace conducts that make the field of the subpace engine envelop the whole ship.

[ChronoReverse]

...

If it acts like gravity, then it's Artificial Gravity.

Anything else is semantics.

Besides, even if your overly complicated theory (Occam's Razor, use the simple) is true, fighters also have subspace drives too.