[ChronoReverse]

Hmmm, there's some weird problems with this build.  Sometimes after playing several missions in succession, the 2D graphics in the options screen and stuff borks.

And then, for some reason I've yet to find out, when the Auriga jumped in (Derelict Mission), the framerate drops to 4 (1) unless I'm not lookin directly at it.


That said, this doesn't really matter (and I'm not going to post them on Mantis) since this is just a fun build =)

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by kasperl
and how can something graphics related interfere with interface/table structures?

that's why I'm worried.

[Drew]

anyway bob,
its weird, the evn mapping works on my card, but spec lighting still dosnt work in HT&L. thats why my ships look so ****ing glossed
its messed up i tell you

[Flipside]

That ship selection problem is sporadic, if you persevere, it is possible to select a ship and place it, though several rapid left and right clicks are needed.

[Bobboau]

hmm, actualy now that you mention it, that does sound familiar, I was haveing the same problem, but I just thought it was the new wireless keyboard and mouse I just got acting up (it does that some times)

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Bobboau
hmm, actualy now that you mention it, that does sound familiar, I was haveing the same problem, but I just thought it was the new wireless keyboard and mouse I just got acting up (it does that some times)

That's what I thought at first. I've also got a wireless mouse and the behaviour is similar to when the batteries are running out.

*Wonders if the wireless mouse thing is a coinicidence*

[Bobboau]

maybe we all got wireless mice at the same time and now the batteries are all dieing syncronusly

[Lightspeed]

No, I remember having that same problem with an earlier build (I think it was 18_11_03) - but it vanished with the next new build released. Haven't checked it in the env build yet.

Using a corded old-skool mouse here so the probs definately been the build.

[Nuke]

if your wireless mouse/keybord are acting up, move the reciever away from em sources, such as your monitor, computer, or emp generator. the thing is subject to rf interferance.

i disagree with the use of an alpha chanel for env mapping. not all dds textures have an 8x compression ratio. dds is just its extension, there are many pixel formats that it may use. each format has different compression ratios. dxt3 and dxt5 formats, which support alpha cannels, are twice as big as dxt1 format. id personally rather use an 8 bit (grey or index) texture format on all my maps, as to keep down memory usage. im concerned that we are putting too much data into the various maps. think abour it, whe have 24 bits in our textures, then 24 in outr glow, 24 in our shine, and another 8 in the env alpha channel. thats 80 bits per pixel. does anybody around here think that that is too much data? my idea uses 24 bit textures and 8-bit maps merged as channels in another 24 bit image for a total of 48 bpp.  used in conjunction with uber compressable dxt1 the memory advantages are huge. if you need color in a map then the engine can multiply the texture pixels with th map pixels to generate it.

[Lightspeed]

We have 8bit textures, 8bit glowmaps (who needs more colours in glowmaps needs to be whacked), 32bit spec maps (with env included) --> 48 Bits per pixel.

Also, there is DDS formats with alpha channels and good compression (although alpha is quite limited: to 16 different shades or so) - and who needs the performance that badly will not have a vid card able to store DDS textures anyway.

Really, screw the whole DDS thing. It's good for huge textures that can be compressed quite well, but not actually neccessary for small shinemaps. You can still have DDS textures, glowmaps and whatever you like. If it's still killing you, scale down your shinemaps (you'll lose quality, but so you will with DDS).

---

Tried around with the env build more (found out 2 things):

- Weapons & Ship selection works normally for me. No problems with Derelict (have to try with other mods)

- There seems to be a certain slow down when i'm getting close to larger ships (cruiser+) - It happens if the distance gets less than around 100. It slows down the framerate quite a bit (by at least 30 FPS). There's no LOD / texture switching, so technically it shouldnt be happening. It doesnt happen with any other builds, either.

[Taristin]

I can't seem to get better than 10 fps with this build. And it CTD's after 20 seconds, but I had a randomly generated BG full of LS's nebulas, and I put a setekh class awacs with LS's shinemaps, and observed the beauty reflected on the arrays. I want a new vid card. :cry:

[ChronoReverse]

It's strange, but I'll reiterate, the Auriga (orion class) destroyer in Derelict REALLY slows down everything (to <10fps).  I haven't got around to testing it with another orion yet though.

Doesn't happen with the Hatshepsut in the first mission of main campaign.

I get 85FPS staring at a few fighters, 70+FPS staring at an hatshepsut and 30-40FPS staring at a full blown battle with debris (Derelict style).

As soon as the Auriga came into view, it suddenly dips to <10FPS until I look away.  @@

[Bobboau]

if ether one of you are useing trueform try turning it off

[ChronoReverse]

I'm not using it since I have a GF4 ti4200

I wish I had a 9800XT but that isn't going to happen unless some money magically appears, heh.

[KARMA]

I'd have loved to pick some shots of a nebula reflecting on a TF cockpit, but it seem that I've to forget this:(
if I get to mission directly it crash, if I get to mission simulator the techroom crash:( ohh well I really need a new hardware.

btw, little ot:
is there a commandline to graduate the mipmapping? it's nice but it makes as it is the textures too smoothed.

[KARMA]

btw I don't disagree with nuke's idea, as I already said, for a simple reason: we'll need in future 8 additional bits for bumpmaps, and hopefully 8 more bits for transparency (the pure green thing is quite limiting, and the tga's alpha is not designed for model's textures), and personally I don't think that making the glows 8bit would be that a loss, since there are other ways to obtain the same color effects (changing the underlying texture color), the few times you need em.
which would mean 24bit textures (32 bit with transparency)+ 24bit map(glows+bump+env)+8bit shinemap(I doubt you need more than 256 colours).
Talking about performance it is probably the best solution, but admittedly it would require some modifications to some already done stuff, which is a thing that it is better to avoid

[Lightspeed]

I still side with mine and Bob's idea.

[StratComm]

It still neglects the way glowmaps are currently rendered, and eliminates an option for modders in the way we use glowmaps to get colors.  It could certainly be done, I just don't see the need. It's really the elimination of color from shinemaps that concerns me most, because as it stands some of the coolest effects I've seen come from using a different color shine than the hull.

Plus, I've got to go with what's previously been said here: shine maps should be used as environment maps.  If you don't want something to reflect it's environment, don't make it shiny.  While I do understand that you can have a diffuse shine like brushed metal and not get a reflection out, that reflection should (and by the look of things does in the current system) still reflect the color of whatever is emmiting or reflecting light on to the panel.

[KARMA]

a mirror is different than a metallic plate.
reflective=mirror
shinemaps=metal
in many of the pics posted so far you could see ships so reflective that looks like if plated with crome, like a car, and suck, but still they'd need to be shiny since they look many times better if shiny.
Look at venom's arcadia in the thread on the modding forum, and other pics too.
env and shiny must be separated, that's it.
and nobody proposed to remove the color from shinemaps

[Nico]

I'm with karma on that.
i'll take the 3dsmax exemple: you have reflectivity, specularity AND even glossiness. You're taking some serious shortcuts assuming spec and reflections are the same and proportional. A high specularity re"flects light on a certain angle, that means you won't see anything more than oversaturated light. A white blob, for exemple. That has absolutly nothing to do with reflectivity. Take a mirror: either you see yourself in the mirror ( and then no specularity at all ), either it's all specular ( and you won't see a reflection at all ).
Balancing that is, actually, an essential part of material making for high poly modelisation. Please don't take some simplfied way and label it "it's that way, like it or not" when it's, more or less, the exact opposite.