Author Topic: First attempts with FS source...  (Read 15883 times)

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Offline Wanderer

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First attempts with FS source...
So i finally got around it and placed tried fooling around the FS source with Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition...

And - big thanks to karajorma who got me started - something i made...

Now first it is supposed to make an option for making bomber turrets smarter.. ie. to make turrets mounted on fighters and bombers to target freely like normal turrets instead of keeping the one ship has targeted as the turrets target. Flying 'Slaying the Ravana' with Medusa and testing the new flag both on and off and keeping close eye on the turret and what the turret is targeting at should probably explain what i mean. With the new flag off (as default on bombers is on) on the turrets actual protect the bombers and while on retail setting the turrets are as useless as usual.

Also it - assuming i got it right - moves small ship, big ship and huge ship flags from ship info to ship type info and makes then along the bomber turret thing as an option for the objecttypes.tbl.

link to zipped patch file

As for the names of the flags... if you have better ideas please change them... i just wrote something descriptive there
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Offline Backslash

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Nice!  Looks good.  I've always wanted this feature, but shied away from coding it thinking it'd be a lot harder.  WCSaga in particular will like this, but obviously anyone with fighter turrets would too.  I think the original campaigns should have been this way.

The objecttypes.tbl thing sounds great... don't have a use for this myself, but more potential for TC type projects is always nice. :yes:  Unfortunately I think your thread title has made non coders ignore this...

Oh, and welcome to the dark side.  We shall watch your career with great interest.</Palpatine voice>:D

Heh, yeah naming the flags gets me too... for example, what would you suggest naming a flag that makes beams no longer whack in a baseball bat manner but instead like a hose? ;)

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Heh, yeah naming the flags gets me too... for example, what would you suggest naming a flag that makes beams no longer whack in a baseball bat manner but instead like a hose? ;)

"soft whack" perhaps.

 

Offline JGZinv

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Thwack?

Limp Hit?

Soft Smack?

Smush?

Thump or Thud?

Whap or Fwap?

Bang or Bam?

Ram?
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Offline Backslash

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
I was unclear -- it's more to do with the direction than the amount.  So more 'baseball bat vs pool cue'.  Let's just say, negative numbers results in a working tractor beam ;7

Rofl, didn't mean to derail things that quickly.  This is quite a big patch.  Seems to work so far.  I'd like the more senior SCP guys to take a look.  If possible could you make the turret flag feature as a separate patch?  That one would be more likely to be able to commit right away.

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Well.. sure... That should be it.. That is it is still in the big patch file as well

EDIT... and the tbm to disable the retail method of getting targets for bomber and fighter turrets..
sst-obt.tbm
Code: [Select]
#Ship types

$Name:               Fighter
   +nocreate
$Use Small Ship Turrets: NO

$Name:               Bomber
   +nocreate
$Use Small Ship Turrets: NO

#End

[attachment deleted by ninja]
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 04:53:58 am by Wanderer »
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Also it - assuming i got it right - moves small ship, big ship and huge ship flags from ship info to ship type info and makes then along the bomber turret thing as an option for the objecttypes.tbl.

Woah, woah, woah.

The entire point of objecttypes.tbl was to get rid of those flags. They cause a lot of hardcoded behavior that needs to be broken down into individual options so that mods can specify it individually, and so that it's clear what's actually happening. I broke a lot of those size-dependent options off of the flags and moved them into objecttypes.tbl. From a design perspective, I'm not sure if it's a step forwards or a step backwards. In the short term, it gives the modders a little more choice as they can select from three super-shiptypes.

In the long term, it risks halting development of objecttypes.tbl and permanently retarding its growth, possibly stopping it entirely. Frankly, it scares me. By making those flags accessible to modders rather than simply an internal code thing, you would force every single version of the SCP to continue to support those flags. That means that every single toggle that's in there now for those flags would have to stay there. If somebody ever gets around to making those options explicit in objecttypes.tbl, every single option, every single value, would have to have code implemented to handle precedence for the flag.

For example, what happens if somebody explicitly specifies a value in one modular table, and then a modular table after that specifies a "big ship" flag? Do you override the explicitly specified variable in the first modular table with the implicit specification in the second modular table? That's the easiest method from a coding POV, but it's a confusing result for the modder.

Any time you make something from the codebase explicit in a table or other modder-accessible thing, you force every single version of the SCP to be consistent with the effects of that. You can't just port variables to a table without any thought to how it's going to effect things if somebody else wants to do something more than you, or improve on the work you've done, unless you just don't care or don't want to allow for that possibility. It's a very daunting task, but it's generally a lot better to provide a lot of specific options rather than very vague ones. If you have an option like "Max Visible Fog Distance", you know what the modder wants and you can play around with ways to do that. You can add whatever gimmicks you need to account for new materials and so on, because you know that the modder wants the ship to be visible at that distance. If the modder just says that the ship is a "big ship", there's no inherent implication of how far away the ship should be visible in fog. You also don't know if the modder is using the flag because they think the ship is a big ship, or because one of the options is so important that they're using the flag inaccurately to get one specific effect.

There's also the matter of move stuff from ship_info to ship_type_info. That should, generally speaking, never ever be done. In this particular case, it doesn't really affect anything since the options were dependent on ship types anyway. However, in general, all this does is reduce modders' choice in what ships should do. In many cases, options that were originally ship type dependent should be moved to ships.tbl because somebody might want to make them different for ships of the same class. Remember that ships of the same class may not necessarily be of the same species, so the technology behind them may be totally different. I've heard the objection that it creates more work for table modders, but IMHO that's not true in the long run. When you factor in managing precedence not just between modular tables, but also between different types of tables, it's a lot better to proactively avoid the precedence hell. It's also a lot easier to code the feature once than to have to recode it later on, when somebody wants the option on a per-shipclass basis, and also take into account that you've already coded it once before.

Speaking less formally, I have little patience for people who are willing to risk all of that rather than have to paste one line in a table 15-16 times. :rolleyes: I wish any coding were that easy.

And, like I said, it goes against the original intent of ship types, which was to get rid of all those designations which make sense for the Freespace universe, using the original game's ships, and make it into something that mods could use to start from scratch to define their own ship types with their own characteristics.

Notes on the Implementation
Three different boolean options are used to identify a ship as big, small, or huge. When you're working with a set of a type of designation, it's generally better to just make that a single variable. There's no reason to have three booleans, it wastes memory. Also, a ship can't be small and huge at the same time, at least not with the conventional english definition of those terms. :p

Several places you use:
Code: [Select]
Ship_types[Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type].ship_boolsFor me this is a red flag, because there are three indices going on. I think I did this before, but it wasn't really a great idea then. It would be more appropriate to make a function like this:

Code: [Select]
ship_type_info *ship_get_type(object *objp)
{
     Assert(objp != NULL);
     Assert(objp->type == OBJ_SHIP);
     Assert(objp->instance > -1);
     Assert(Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index > -1);
     Assert(Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type > -1);

     return &Ship_types[Ship_types[Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type];
}

which cleans up the code everywhere that the indexing is made, and lets you check all of those assumptions automatically in a debug build.

I would also change "Use small ship turrets" into a "Turrets prioritize ship target" option, or something shorter along those lines.

Also, at certain points you changed a "enemy_sip_flags" to ship type bools. For that kind of thing, the variable name should be changed, as it's no longer ship info flags. Somebody else might get confused by that bit of code and think that ship_info flags were being referenced, put in some checks for SIF_ flags, and get unpredictable behavior.

Sorry that got pretty long.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 09:03:04 pm by WMCoolmon »
-C

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Yeah.. true..

Woah, woah, woah.

The entire point of objecttypes.tbl was to get rid of those flags. They cause a lot of hardcoded behavior that needs to be broken down into individual options so that mods can specify it individually, and so that it's clear what's actually happening. I broke a lot of those size-dependent options off of the flags and moved them into objecttypes.tbl. From a design perspective, I'm not sure if it's a step forwards or a step backwards. In the short term, it gives the modders a little more choice as they can select from three super-shiptypes.

In the long term, it risks halting development of objecttypes.tbl and permanently retarding its growth, possibly stopping it entirely. Frankly, it scares me. By making those flags accessible to modders rather than simply an internal code thing, you would force every single version of the SCP to continue to support those flags. That means that every single toggle that's in there now for those flags would have to stay there. If somebody ever gets around to making those options explicit in objecttypes.tbl, every single option, every single value, would have to have code implemented to handle precedence for the flag.

For example, what happens if somebody explicitly specifies a value in one modular table, and then a modular table after that specifies a "big ship" flag? Do you override the explicitly specified variable in the first modular table with the implicit specification in the second modular table? That's the easiest method from a coding POV, but it's a confusing result for the modder.

Any time you make something from the codebase explicit in a table or other modder-accessible thing, you force every single version of the SCP to be consistent with the effects of that. You can't just port variables to a table without any thought to how it's going to effect things if somebody else wants to do something more than you, or improve on the work you've done, unless you just don't care or don't want to allow for that possibility. It's a very daunting task, but it's generally a lot better to provide a lot of specific options rather than very vague ones. If you have an option like "Max Visible Fog Distance", you know what the modder wants and you can play around with ways to do that. You can add whatever gimmicks you need to account for new materials and so on, because you know that the modder wants the ship to be visible at that distance. If the modder just says that the ship is a "big ship", there's no inherent implication of how far away the ship should be visible in fog. You also don't know if the modder is using the flag because they think the ship is a big ship, or because one of the options is so important that they're using the flag inaccurately to get one specific effect.

There's also the matter of move stuff from ship_info to ship_type_info. That should, generally speaking, never ever be done. In this particular case, it doesn't really affect anything since the options were dependent on ship types anyway. However, in general, all this does is reduce modders' choice in what ships should do. In many cases, options that were originally ship type dependent should be moved to ships.tbl because somebody might want to make them different for ships of the same class. Remember that ships of the same class may not necessarily be of the same species, so the technology behind them may be totally different. I've heard the objection that it creates more work for table modders, but IMHO that's not true in the long run. When you factor in managing precedence not just between modular tables, but also between different types of tables, it's a lot better to proactively avoid the precedence hell. It's also a lot easier to code the feature once than to have to recode it later on, when somebody wants the option on a per-shipclass basis, and also take into account that you've already coded it once before.

Speaking less formally, I have little patience for people who are willing to risk all of that rather than have to paste one line in a table 15-16 times. I wish any coding were that easy.

Though as it is ATM the hard coded options under small, big and large ships are completely inaccessible for new objecttypes.tbl types... which is why i thought that giving at least a global access to the said options would be preferable top having no access at all. Besides i sorta assumed that majority of the options that could be broken away from the 'super shiptypes' would more or less still remain as things controlled by objecttypes.tbl so the references to the ship_bools (or to ship_type_info in general) would already be there making it supposedly easier to add the new flags/options.

Of course if objecttypes.tbl is in such shape that its usage its not encouraged then i understand that. And i dont mean as in bad shape but as 'under construction' shape.

As for why i chose to move those to objecttypes instead of ship types... well... I was more thinking like adding new objecttype along the lines 'Alien Capship' than making those ship table options.. Mainly because the super shiptypes themselves are directly derived from the ship types. But sure now that you mention it there is good amount of logic behind the idea of putting them as separate ship flags as well.

And, like I said, it goes against the original intent of ship types, which was to get rid of all those designations which make sense for the Freespace universe, using the original game's ships, and make it into something that mods could use to start from scratch to define their own ship types with their own characteristics.
As it was briefly discussed earlier the currrent functionality of objecttypes - unless multiple ship types are defined for the said ship class - is severely limited by the hard coded SIF_<ship_type> and SIF_<ship_size> flags.

Notes on the Implementation
Three different boolean options are used to identify a ship as big, small, or huge. When you're working with a set of a type of designation, it's generally better to just make that a single variable. There's no reason to have three booleans, it wastes memory. Also, a ship can't be small and huge at the same time, at least not with the conventional english definition of those terms. :p
Well... true though i couldn't see any limitation in code for that and thought it was left like that for some reason....

Several places you use:
Code: [Select]
Ship_types[Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type].ship_boolsFor me this is a red flag, because there are three indices going on. I think I did this before, but it wasn't really a great idea then. It would be more appropriate to make a function like this:

Code: [Select]
ship_type_info *ship_get_type(object *objp)
{
     Assert(objp != NULL);
     Assert(objp->type == OBJ_SHIP);
     Assert(objp->instance > -1);
     Assert(Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index > -1);
     Assert(Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type > -1);

     return &Ship_types[Ship_types[Ship_info[Ships[objp->instance].ship_info_index].class_type];
}

which cleans up the code everywhere that the indexing is made, and lets you check all of those assumptions automatically in a debug build.
I thought of writing similarish function (though with less asserts...) but after i took a look how things were handled in the code there seemed to rather interesting amount of variety in methods getting to the ship flags so i dropped the idea of making such function.

I would also change "Use small ship turrets" into a "Turrets prioritize ship target" option, or something shorter along those lines.
I haven't got rights to write to SVN so i'll leave the actual naming of that option to some one who can - should there be such a person who wants to add that option - and who is actually native English speaker...

Also, at certain points you changed a "enemy_sip_flags" to ship type bools. For that kind of thing, the variable name should be changed, as it's no longer ship info flags. Somebody else might get confused by that bit of code and think that ship_info flags were being referenced, put in some checks for SIF_ flags, and get unpredictable behavior.
Fair enough...


EDIT... That said i still hope that atleast the small ship turret thing - which ever it would named as - would get committed to the code as AFAIK (and by looking at the code) that way the turrets function in bombers in FS2 was not the way they were intended to function.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 01:37:31 am by Wanderer »
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Some other things i fooled around with...

Iffs... Some little questions first... Assuming it was in one way or another possible should there be possibility to set alternate IFF colors within the set IFF entity (entity in this case refers to the things like 'Friendly' etc). I wrote something that actually accomplishes that but problem is that it was a) very poorly constructed, b) relied once again on ship types, c) alternate iff colors might be something fredders might want to set on their own (and my version certainly wasnt such). So i take any alternate iff colors thing should preferably have options in fred and ships table instead of iff_defs and objecttypes?

Then a couple of things that were - well seemingly - somewhat within my grasp. Not sure how much use these would in general have.. but i guess some people might prefer other than hard coded colors for asteroid of message HUD frames, or to the radar blips marking cargo, warping ships, bombs etc. Besides some one had reversed the older 'is bright' boolean at some point so that missile etc. were actually drawn brighter if they were further away even though with ships it worked like advertised so this patch (iff_patch_1and2) should fix that bug as well. And it also gives option to use similar dimmed color scaling system with those blips as the one used with ships.

As for names of the flags.. dunno..


EDIT: Hmm.. Seems like there is lack of interest in this kinds of things... Oh well.. i'll post a single diff yet and trouble people no more with code stuff then...

The alt_iff_patch enables alternate iff colours for the ships within a set IFF entity. As of now it is set via ships.tbl with additional possibility of setting individual settings via SEXPS (latter is untested as AFAIK express editions do not have MFC). But given the amount of trouble i had with figuring out why support ships had wrong color i suppose it works too... It doesnt work with all possible things - like escort list color is still the main IFF color - as that would probably just have complicated things too much. So it should make Wing Commanderish alternate IFF color capships possible. Hopefully got the sexps sorted out too

[attachment deleted by ninja]
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 11:19:35 am by Wanderer »
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Some other things i fooled around with...

Iffs... Some little questions first... Assuming it was in one way or another possible should there be possibility to set alternate IFF colors within the set IFF entity (entity in this case refers to the things like 'Friendly' etc). I wrote something that actually accomplishes that but problem is that it was a) very poorly constructed, b) relied once again on ship types, c) alternate iff colors might be something fredders might want to set on their own (and my version certainly wasnt such). So i take any alternate iff colors thing should preferably have options in fred and ships table instead of iff_defs and objecttypes?

Dunno. Since the underlying assumption is that the targeting computers add the IFF colors, I'm inclined to say that IFF colors should actually be a separate thing altogether. For example,
Code: [Select]
#IFF Colors
$Species: Terran
;;When flying a Terran ship, you see the following colors:

   ;;Green for friendly ships
   $Color: 0 255 0
      $Team Status: Friendly
      $Type: Ship

   ;;Red for hostile ships
   $Color: 255 0 0
      $Team Status: Hostile
      $Object Type: Ship

   ;;Orange for bombs
   $Color: 255 64 0
      $Team Status: Hostile
      $Object Type: Weapon
      $Flags: "bomb"

$Species: Vasudan
;;When flying a Vasudan ship, you see the following colors:

   ;;Yellow for friendly ships
   $Color: 255 255 0
      $Team Status: Friendly
      $Object Type: Ship

   ;;etc etc

$Ship Class: GVA Setekh
;;When flying a GVA Setekh, you see the following colors:

   ;;Blue for friendly Terran ships
   $Color: 0 0 255
      $Team Status: Friendly
      $Species: Terran
      $Object Type: Ship

   ;;Yellow for friendly Vasudan ships
   $Color: 255 255 0
      $Team Status: Friendly
      $Species: Vasudan
      $Object Type: Ship

   ;;Pink for hostile stealth ships
   $Color: 255 0 255
      $Team Status: Hostile
      $Object Type: Ship
      $Flags: "stealth"
#End

Something like that would give modders a lot of flexibility without a lot of extra gymnastics. Syntax is based on conditional scripting.

Then a couple of things that were - well seemingly - somewhat within my grasp. Not sure how much use these would in general have.. but i guess some people might prefer other than hard coded colors for asteroid of message HUD frames, or to the radar blips marking cargo, warping ships, bombs etc. Besides some one had reversed the older 'is bright' boolean at some point so that missile etc. were actually drawn brighter if they were further away even though with ships it worked like advertised so this patch (iff_patch_1and2) should fix that bug as well. And it also gives option to use similar dimmed color scaling system with those blips as the one used with ships.

As for names of the flags.. dunno..

See above & that does sound like a bug that you fixed.

EDIT: Hmm.. Seems like there is lack of interest in this kinds of things... Oh well.. i'll post a single diff yet and trouble people no more with code stuff then...

The alt_iff_patch enables alternate iff colours for the ships within a set IFF entity. As of now it is set via ships.tbl with additional possibility of setting individual settings via SEXPS (latter is untested as AFAIK express editions do not have MFC). But given the amount of trouble i had with figuring out why support ships had wrong color i suppose it works too... It doesnt work with all possible things - like escort list color is still the main IFF color - as that would probably just have complicated things too much. So it should make Wing Commanderish alternate IFF color capships possible. Hopefully got the sexps sorted out too

I suppose I'm not a big fan of IFF colors in ships.tbl since, again, they're supposed to be generated by a ship's targeting computer; it also makes sense for them to change based on ship status, and especially allegiance. However, I think it sounds like what you've implemented follows the basic pattern of how IFF has been done already.

Lack of posting doesn't always equate to lack of interest, either.
-C

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Though as it is ATM the hard coded options under small, big and large ships are completely inaccessible for new objecttypes.tbl types... which is why i thought that giving at least a global access to the said options would be preferable top having no access at all. Besides i sorta assumed that majority of the options that could be broken away from the 'super shiptypes' would more or less still remain as things controlled by objecttypes.tbl so the references to the ship_bools (or to ship_type_info in general) would already be there making it supposedly easier to add the new flags/options.

Of course if objecttypes.tbl is in such shape that its usage its not encouraged then i understand that. And i dont mean as in bad shape but as 'under construction' shape.

As for why i chose to move those to objecttypes instead of ship types... well... I was more thinking like adding new objecttype along the lines 'Alien Capship' than making those ship table options.. Mainly because the super shiptypes themselves are directly derived from the ship types. But sure now that you mention it there is good amount of logic behind the idea of putting them as separate ship flags as well.

Hmm. Indirectly you raise a good point, you do have to keep the SIF_* shiptype defines around as-is, especially if somebody makes a gunship class or something that isn't specified in the defaults. It's something that deserves some thought on how to fix it - maybe establish some kind of multiple shiptype system with precedence - but ideally, I guess, objecttypes.tbl should be finished.

objecttypes.tbl is in the 'under construction' shape, but it's not actively being worked on by anyone AFAIK.

As it was briefly discussed earlier the currrent functionality of objecttypes - unless multiple ship types are defined for the said ship class - is severely limited by the hard coded SIF_<ship_type> and SIF_<ship_size> flags.

Yup. Multiple ship types is pretty much an unfortunate hack to allow objecttypes to be used in conjunction with the old system.

Well... true though i couldn't see any limitation in code for that and thought it was left like that for some reason....

I guess it's because :V: never had trouble with people defining something as both a corvette and the ship at the same time. I think I remember a discussion sometime about code to limit things to a ship type, but regardless, I think the general assumption up til now is that a ship only has one type. Since big/small/huge were all supertypes of specific types, you could never have more than one supertype as long as you had only one type.

I thought of writing similarish function (though with less asserts...) but after i took a look how things were handled in the code there seemed to rather interesting amount of variety in methods getting to the ship flags so i dropped the idea of making such function.
Maybe, it's still rather alarming to me when I look at it since an array indexing error throws one of those "memory access violation" or "Send error report to Microsoft" things that doesn't help debugging at all.

EDIT... That said i still hope that atleast the small ship turret thing - which ever it would named as - would get committed to the code as AFAIK (and by looking at the code) that way the turrets function in bombers in FS2 was not the way they were intended to function.
-C

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
I suppose I'm not a big fan of IFF colors in ships.tbl since, again, they're supposed to be generated by a ship's targeting computer; it also makes sense for them to change based on ship status, and especially allegiance. However, I think it sounds like what you've implemented follows the basic pattern of how IFF has been done already.
Well.. i did implement it via multidimensional array of integers so yeah. That is there is the observer vs observed check to get to the color - so if IFF changes so will the color (and the alternate color). As for why to ships.tbl.. to give possibility of setting IFF color per ship class basis if needed and - with the untested sexp thing - to enable ship specific IFF color which can be changed during the missions if needed. Besides it now gives a objp to the section where the color is actually handled so more complex methods should now be rather simple to implement.


EDIT: Karajorma pointed out that it might be smarter to use IFF instead of string as fred input argument/identifier... So.. making yet another patch...


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 11:19:18 am by Wanderer »
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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Tbl? What about SEXPs and ship options since it's set to "NO" by default?
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Um? Care to ellaborate?
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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Well they should be easier to handle from Editors---> Mission Specs and/or via SEXPs.
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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Well.. In some case alternate color (or colour :P ) might be preferable to have been set as default for certain ships so that you wouldnt have to go through all the sexps for every ship for every mission to get the colors on... And actually i did write a sexp for it as well.

However as i still lack the necessary MFC libs i couldn't compile fred builds and so couldn't really make it into the editor or even test that the sexp would actually work like it should...
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Offline Mobius

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
What about both thing? Table entry and SEXPs/settings to trigger/deactivate?
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
Well.. i think this might answer some questions...

7z archive with the build and example table files with references. And the iff color thing is also made to sexp but as it would need notepaddling to make it work i left the instructions out so that it wouldnt even be attempted. Basically (from the attachments posted on this page) alt_iff_patch_2 and iff_patch_1and2 on top of fresh SVN build.


EDIT: teaser of the next thing... Ingame screenie without any post editing.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 07:29:01 am by Wanderer »
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Offline Galemp

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
I see custom blips on the radar.

...y'know what would be awesome? Bringing back the solid-fill FS1 briefing icons and using those for the blips. :D
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Offline Turambar

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Re: First attempts with FS source...
DRADIS contact!

very nice, now all we need is a combo with that, working render-to-texture + cockpits, and the DRADIS Whoosh
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
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