[Fry_Day]

I tend to agree with Zarax. There's even code to interpolate from view matrix A to view matrix B in the vector math header

[WMCoolmon]

DivX, if I've heard correctly, is open source. That means less likelihood of legal issues.
Also, doesn't Windows Media use .wmv? If that's true, I've seen many programs support .AVI output with a codec, but not so many that support .wmv output.

On in-game cutscenes, it seems to me that many of the programmers want to use them, while the larger campaign makers want true cutscenes. I lean towards rendered cutscenes myself, since you can make a FS-quality movie pretty easily with 3DS or Lightwave, as far as I know. Certainly, it's possible to do in-game cutscenes, but doing them with SEXPs will end up being unwieldy.

[penguin]

Originally posted by Kazan
my hatred for microsoft is not clouding my judgement of the quality of their codecs - it will stop me from supporting any usage of their codecs - but it doesn't keep me from doing a real analysis of their codecs

Heh, I'm w/ Kazan on this one.

I'm certainly not the only developer on this project, but I will not write nor support a WM player.  Divx should be more than adequate for our needs IMHO.

[Inquisitor]

Especially with the cross platform development we have going.

No argument here

[LtNarol]

would be nice if a sexp were made that gave control of the player's (players') ship(s) to regular fighter/bomber ai(s) which accept normal orders from sexps...an autopilot of sorts

[IceFire]

A few sexp can be added to manage it, basically the game needs to disable player control and move the camera/make the ships perform actions.
Controlling everything trough sexps most fredders will make with ease.
It's a simple, clean, time and space saving system.
It may be not as spectacular as video cutscenes but with optimization you wouldn't miss them.
Just watch games like HW or Starlancer and the way they uses them...

That would be a huge boost to mission story telling.  Let me tell you.  Very very beneficial.  That code already has to be in there in some format because thats what happens when you go into subspace.  Some development and we could have a more functional...and probably somewhat easy to use in-game cutscene system.

I think Ace had the idea of using a camera and a sort of waypoints system to accomplish it.

[EdrickV]

A few notes on this subject:

MVE: As I understand it, in order to use a function from another file (exe or dll) the function must be exported. As far as I know, the FS2 exe does not export any functions. So I don't think we could use it like a dll. Remember, it doesn't use any FS2 specific dlls. All the FS2 code's integrated into one big exe rather then a smaller exe with dlls for different things. Why would they want to export the movie play function?

DIVX and other formats: For cross platform use, DIVX is probably one of the better choices. There are free open source DIVX encoders, decoders, and codecs that don't rely on Windows dlls. One example is the ffmpeg library/tools. It's used in mplayer  and xine for Linux and the webcast Off The Hook apparently from a New York radio station. It is even usable on non-x86 systems! It can also play mpeg videos, some Real Video files, and Quicktime 2.x files. The one thing that might take some working around would be the fact that it's released under the GPL. I'm not exactly sure what that means if you want to use it in an open source non-GPL program.

In Game cutscenes: I think I know what you're talking about here. Scenes like these are used in games like Star Wars Starfighter and I think Descent 3 to some extent. It wouldn't be a bad idea. For that what would really matter is how well it's implimented from a non-programming MODDers perspective. Scenes like these would probably fit in better then an in game movie sequence. (The ships always looked cooler in the movies then they did in game. )

Addendum:
The movies that are used in the original campaign are copyright so transfering them to another filetype and then distributing them to other people would probably be illegal. Not sure if just converting them (like recording them on a VCR and then encoding that in a DIVX) would be illegal or not if you didn't distribute them.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by EdrickV
Addendum:
The movies that are used in the original campaign are copyright so transfering them to another filetype and then distributing them to other people would probably be illegal. Not sure if just converting them (like recording them on a VCR and then encoding that in a DIVX) would be illegal or not if you didn't distribute them.

Well, one can legally make as many copies as one wishes of videotapes so long as one does not distribute, so I would assume that this would also be legal.  The question then is only whether Interplay would be mad if these converted files were distributed to people who already have purchased a copy of the game anyway (and of course to use the source code enhanced engines that are coming, one will still have to have purchased the game previously, since the exe by itself is useless).

[penguin]

Originally posted by EdrickV
The one thing that might take some working around would be the fact that it's released under the GPL. I'm not exactly sure what that means if you want to use it in an open source non-GPL program.

I think the GPL would only affect changes to the DIVX codec itself.  If we made changes to the codec, we would then be required to make available the source code -- sort of a no-brainer, since we're releasing he code anyhow.  However, the changes to the codec would need to be released under the GPL; the rest of the project would not, as it is already under a separate license ("The Volition Non-Commercial Source License" ? )

I haven't researched this enough; perhaps the DIVX codec is covered under the LGPL, which is much less restrictive and is designed for libraries that would be included in other projects.

The usual caveats apply: IANAL, etc.

[penguin]

Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Well, one can legally make as many copies as one wishes of videotapes so long as one does not distribute, so I would assume that this would also be legal.  The question then is only whether Interplay would be mad if these converted files were distributed to people who already have purchased a copy of the game anyway (and of course to use the source code enhanced engines that are coming, one will still have to have purchased the game previously, since the exe by itself is useless).

We definitely cannot redistribute the movies, in any format, unless Volition releases them.

The big issue is with the MVE codec itself (more accurately, the MVE file format).  It is a proprietary format, trade secret of Interplay, and they're not sharing.  The only MVE tools that have been released (there have been very few, and none that I'm aware of in source code format) have been removed from distribution at the request of Interplay and their lawyers.

[WMCoolmon]

That does not preclude the use of a video capture program designed specifically to run at the same time as Freespace to save the movies into an AVI format so they could be played with the FSSCP executables, yes?

[EdrickV]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
That does not preclude the use of a video capture program designed specifically to run at the same time as Freespace to save the movies into an AVI format so they could be played with the FSSCP executables, yes?

That could be done (though I'm not sure what kind of quality you'd get) and should be legal, as long as you do not distribute them to anyone else. Which means everyone who wanted to watch those movies with the new exe would have to capture their own copy.

[WMCoolmon]

If it's possible to start and stop the capturer with a hotkey, all that you would have to do would be open Freespace 2 and play all the cutscenes to convert them. That's pretty easy if you've finished the campaign already
Even though that might seem like quite a bit of work, there's probably a number of people who wouldn't mind watching them again

[LtNarol]

couldnt we just "convince" () dave to add the cutscene source back in and compile the whole lot after we finish with the rest of the code?

[WMCoolmon]

And hope he never sees that '"convince"'? :doh:
I suppose, but it would be a lot of trouble...he'd be getting about a dozen copies to compile a day, after all, as the project is hardly static

[penguin]

Originally posted by LtNarol
couldnt we just "convince" () dave to add the cutscene source back in and compile the whole lot after we finish with the rest of the code?

It would be more useful if :V: would do the MVE to DIVX* conversion on all the FS1 and FS2 cutscenes and release those files.  Then we no longer have any need for MVE at all.

edit decided to rant some more: to paraphrase wmcoolmon's previous post, we will never be finished with the code!  Your grandchildren will be playing this game on their PS24's!


_____

* or whatever -- the format doesn't matter, so long as it's a well documented, non-proprietary standard

[RandomTiger]

I love the old movie files, they are strangely dull and exciting at the same time in a way I dont understand.

The calm after the storm of a good mission, the reward that takes you through the hard bits.

Couldnt someone with connections just ask the people at Volition to give us new copies as MPEGS or something. We currently cant play the movies because the movie code, not the movies themselves, are not allowed to be distributed.

While they are at it perhaps they could even give us higher quality versions.

[kieran]

You might want to wait a little while.  This looks like it's being solved by someone on the
icculus mailling list for freespace2

[WMCoolmon]

How is it being solved?

[RandomTiger]

Good question. If anyone actually manages to crack MVE it will annoy interplay something chronic and make them think twice about allowing games companys to release code for 'dead' games.