Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: DukeOfNukes on June 09, 2014, 04:58:38 am
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After a considerable amount of time and effort, I think I've figured out what "Media VPs" does. You guys are updating the models for the game, right? I put it this way because it's really hard to decipher right now. To a layman...heck, to anyone except you guys, "Media VPs" doesn't mean anything. After loading it up and checking out some of the new models, I'm really sad, because the new models look great, and I wish I had played through the game with them.
Having recently re-installed Freespace 2 after a long absence, I came back, and played through FSPort. After finishing, I decided to flip through the mods, since the game is giving me a little warning when trying to launch Silent Threat saying to play the Reborn version instead. My curiousity upon seeing "Mediavps" is the only reason I even realized this exists. In fact, I still don't know if I'm supposed to use it...do I load up fsport-str, or do I play Silent Threat through the Media VP's? I think you're losing a lot of your audience, not only by keeping it separate, but by having a confusing name.
I'm assuming this is a different team from the FSPort team, but why not combine them?
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Because these are two different projects, with different goals. The FSPort's goal is to make FS1 accessible to those who only own FS2, the MediaVPs goal is to make the game look and sound better using modern models and effects. Merging the two projects is not something we're keen on doing, since it would run counter to some of the goals the FSPort team has set for itself (The FSPort, in its un-MediaVPs form, runs on FS2 retail, whereas the MediaVPs require FS2_Open and its modding support).
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not sure if you are talking about the regular mediavp or the port-mediavps
Regular MediaVPs is a resource to make the game look and sound better and while most mods reference it it can interfere with mods not designed to use it so is generally kept separate from the main FS install, it also helps with troubleshooting and upgrading the vps with each version.
Port-mediavps is kept separate due to a desire to keep FS-Port retail FS2 compatible which many of the updates in the folder would block.
due to a quirk in how the thing is set up i believe you launch with port-mediavps, though its been a while since i ran port so that could be wrong
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Stepping back from the fsport-mediavps vs mediavps point, there is merit to the idea of having a clearer name than "MediaVPs". Maybe the label in the installer could be changed to "Graphical Updates" or some similar wording? (Note that I'm not advocating changing the name on disk as that'd cause a heaps of issues).
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Yeah, I've always felt it should be named something obvious like "Assets Upgrade" instead. The name "MediaVPs" just doesn't mean anything.
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Modern graphics upgrade (2014)
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Modern graphics upgrade (2014)
Media graphics upgrade? (more similar to the name on disk if they looked)
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The FSPort's goal is to make FS1 accessible to those who only own FS2
I want to clarify that this isn't quite correct. The FSPort's goal is to enhance and upgrade FS1 era campaigns so that they can run on the FS2 engine -- and, by association, the FreeSpace Open engine. Our goal is not to provide a substitute for FS1. We encourage everybody who uses the FSPort, but only has FS2, to buy FS1 so that they can experience the game as it was originally released.
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HD Graphics Pack would be my pitch - it has the best affordable to contemporary gamers.
Please ditch the MVPs name.
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HD Graphics Pack would be my pitch - it has the best affordable to contemporary gamers.
Please ditch the MVPs name.
Absolutely concur. This confused the hell out of me when I first found this place too.
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Affordance not affordable!
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I agree with this sentiment. "HD Upgrade pack" sounds boring, but boring is what we (or rather, the new users) need.
The problem of course is that _everything_ here and in the mod.inis refers to the MediaVPs.
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I can see why you'd want to change the name. Just keep in mind they've been called mediavps for so long that many used to that will still call them mediavps. It could cause more confusion changing it than leaving it as-is. Especially if you change the names of all previous versions. This is the first time I've seen someone miss the mediavps. Everyone normally installs them just fine. The enhanced graphics are probably the most obvious thing FSO brings to the table. Most people even if they don't get the mediavps will notice the graphics are still retail and come looking for the reason why. Lots of files have obscure names.
And what The E said, so much material refers to mediavps. With that as well, I think it would be preferable to leave the name alone.
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E, I think we need to approach this as a branding thing. The name obviously needs to change, but we can figure out a way to do it with limited wake. Moving to 'MVP HD Pack' or 'MVP Graphics Pack' is probably a good first step. We can alter the mod.ini name without altering the folder name.
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The problem of course is that _everything_ here and in the mod.inis refers to the MediaVPs.
So don't change the mod.ini files.
(Note that I'm not advocating changing the name on disk as that'd cause a heaps of issues).
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E, I think we need to approach this as a branding thing. The name obviously needs to change, but we can figure out a way to do it with limited wake. Moving to 'MVP HD Pack' or 'MVP Graphics Pack' is probably a good first step. We can alter the mod.ini name without altering the folder name.
Right you are. Heat must be affecting me more severely than I thought.
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The support and documentation wake will be larger, but I think we can absorb it.
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What about people who search the forum and find instructions to install vps or mods saying compatible with certain vps? Or people who don't know the new name giving out conflicting information. Threads going back years saying mod X and campaign Y requires mediavps. All mods with their own mediavps use the mediavps naming convention.
Are we all going to have to rename our vps if the name is changed, or rename other things?
It's a big can of worms. I wouldn't open it just because one person missed the mediavps. What happens when someone misses one of the other obscure named files?
Almost all of us know and understand the mediavps naming convention. Let's keep it that way and help others to understand it too. If a change is to be made, how about the next time there's a new set of mediavps?
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We can start by improving the installer's affordance. Let's move the nomenclature there to 'MVP 2014 Graphics Pack'. Should help explain to new users what the MVPs do. Any objections?
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Graphics upgrades are obviously the vast majority of what MVPs contains, but it has music and sounds too, so having a name which implies that it's graphics only might not be such a good idea.
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Why not just "Freespace Upgrade Pack" produced by the "Freespace Upgrade Project" -- all FSP.
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FreeSpace HD MediaVPs Graphics and Everything Upgrade Pack
FSHDMVPG&EU for short.
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We should retain the MVP part to smooth transition. I think a visual only name is fine.
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I spent quite a large amount of time trying to figure all this out. As an outside observer, I found it hard to figure out that this was a thing...and not just some random folder. I figured that "MediaVPs" was most likely higher resolution videos, if it wasn't just the videos outright, as that's what "Media" tends to imply. It never occurred to me that it was a mod I should launch the game from.
It looks like a lot of work has been put into this, and I'm a bit sad I missed it during my playthrough. I think that believing my occurrence is a one time problem would also be a mistake...the only reason I caught it is because of my natural curiousity, and many people would have just never realized anything was missing to begin with.
Out of curiousity, would there be any way to make this all as a check box on the actual launcher to turn on these models/sound files etc? I know, I know, different teams...but it seems like the work you guys are doing could be applied to all the mods. I don't know enough about the games infrastructure, but it's a shame that your models can't be something to port into everything, and require their own launch.
At any rate, keep up the good work. I like what I've seen so far.
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In general, this is what happens, actually - mods include a configuration file that directs the engine to load the MediaVPs and any other required mods, so ultimately almost every mod makes use of the upgraded assets.
The primary issue is that it's not particularly obvious\intuitive that playing the original campaign with upgraded graphics requires selecting the MediaVPs as a mod.
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Yup. Rename is imperative.
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Why not the team's name, then? FS Upgrade Project seems pretty self-explanatory. If the mod was named that, it'd be more obvious what it does.
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In general, this is what happens, actually - mods include a configuration file that directs the engine to load the MediaVPs and any other required mods, so ultimately almost every mod makes use of the upgraded assets.
The primary issue is that it's not particularly obvious\intuitive that playing the original campaign with upgraded graphics requires selecting the MediaVPs as a mod.
No ****, it took me while to figure that out. I remember I used to select Derelict as an active mod to get the prettiness upgrade because I has no idea what the mediavps were. Now, it would be less of a problem for people that are using wxLauncher, as it appears in the mod tab.
So yeah, it could really use a better mod/download name.
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Why not the team's name, then? FS Upgrade Project seems pretty self-explanatory. If the mod was named that, it'd be more obvious what it does.
Explained above. Need to absorb documentation and legacy wake. Players will still be seeing folders and mod.inis that say MVPs.
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Renaming the folder will be a huge problem unless there's a major change in the launcher's mod handling. I think that most people don't look at the files, and WXLauncher allows, IIRC, setting an alternate name that would show up. Wouldn't that be enough?
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good job dragon, you've caught up with where this thread was in its fifth post. we know that we'd only be changing the display name
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We will not be renaming the folder. We need to retain the MVP term to absorb wake from existing wiki articles and tutorials that use the term.
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surely as all the launcher shows is title in the ini file this is all that would need to be changed, perhaps with a likewise change in the installer file
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Models & Visuals Package.
Modern Visuals Package.
Media & Visuals Package (for the MediaVPs reference that's used almost as much as MVP)
Only problem is that everything is a .vp, and that could get confusing since music.vp is obviously not a visuals package.
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Clever! As long as the name explains itself clearly.
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I like Media & Visuals best, for sure.
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could just call it Community Upgrade Pack
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could just call it Community Upgrade Pack
We need to retain the MVP term to (see above am on phone)
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My vote is on Media&Visuals package. It makes sense and fits neatly with the old name.