[SaltyWaffles]

does it count as a war crime to keep a bunch of civilians captive in a legitimate military target

Does it count as a war crime to have industrial complexes, which are valid military targets, in Luna cities where a lot of civilians could get hurt ?

A valid question, though I think there are still some distinctions.

Luna is not terraformed. The domes are the habitats for survival, and you cannot separate the industrial centers from the civilian areas. Hit the dome anywhere, and the whole environment cracks. Since the UEF had good reason to believe that the Tevs would not target Luna domes for their own interests, it's reasonable that they wouldn't just abandon one of their largest colonies for such a remote possibility.

As for Kostadin, the major difference is that they had knowingly and willingly turned their home into a superweapon with every intention to use it. Purposely leaving so little time to stop the extinction event means that taking extra measures to avoid collateral damage might not be possible. Further, the civilians were being forced to comply throughout--they weren't allowed to leave.

But the assassination of the Elder in the middle of legitimate diplomatic actions, and then framing the UEF for faking the whole thing--that's really disgusting to me. Beyond potentially necessary sacrifices, blatantly violating one of the most ancient and vital elements of diplomacy and laws of war out of fear that your relationship with your long-time allies is so bad that your new enemies might be better friends for them. God, I hope the Vasudans finally take a proactive stance in this conflict and counteract the worst parts of the GTA while supporting the UEF and good parts of the GTA--which they're in a unique position to do.

[Gray113]

Does it count as a war crime to have industrial complexes, which are valid military targets, in Luna cities where a lot of civilians could get hurt ?

Where else are they supposed to keep these industrial complexes? The surface of Luna is a vaccum and transporting workers to these complexes if they were not a part of the domes would probably be considered a massive inefficiency when the infrastructure was designed.

More important however is the probability that these domes were built decades before the start of the war, the designers would not have been able to forsee that the citizens of Luna would be under attack by a hostile force that would utilise nuclear weapons whilst conducting assults on government infrastructure. I would hardily consider an understandable lack of forsight to be considered a war crime

[Phantom Hoover]

does it count as a war crime to keep a bunch of civilians captive in a legitimate military target

Does it count as a war crime to have industrial complexes, which are valid military targets, in Luna cities where a lot of civilians could get hurt ?

the 'captive' part is fairly important here -- the people on luna had the option to leave, but didn't; briefing text explicitly calls kostadin cell a prison camp

[Ravenholme]

MP-Ryan - You say that you never see that humanity come out in Steele, but I strongly, strongly disagree.

"Have you seen Contingency MORPHEUS?"

"No, Sir."

"Pray that you never do. It is a hell from which there is no waking up"

/Paraphrase

Everything Steele does he does because he feels that he is trying to prevent a higher human cost - that no matter what "monstrous" act he performs, he is doing in the name of preventing an even greater tragedy/loss. That's pretty human, if you ask me.

Laporte and the UEF's continued resistance is the spasming of a poisoned, dying body, and would reduce that cost if it ceased.

(Well, except for Shivan/Vishnan shenanigans in the background)

[Catecholamine]

I ordered my wingmen to kill Ridwan Beta in Nothing is True, solely because I was concentrating on getting rid of the convoy. I would have done it myself if it were more efficient.

If I were packing an anti-subsystem weapon at the time, and the mission had a contingency for it, I would have disabled Ridwan Beta and recommended a capture operation. They could have been dealt with later, and kept alive.

I accepted the Carthage's surrender in Her Finest Hour mainly because it would have taken a really long time to destroy it. That was my decision as a gamer; however, if I were Laporte, I would have made the same decision but for different reasons: as others have said, it's full of useful Tev technology, and personnel to interrogate.

[Gray113]

Just something I was thinking about when playing finest hour.

Given that Calder praises Laporte on a job well done if she does not accept the Carthage's surrender, would Calder be expected to accept the surrender of any GTVA assets or is he to far gone? Given that this man has seen thousands of men and women under his command as well as the civilians he swore to protect slaughtered will the losses get to be much for him?

I could see Byrne or Netreba prioritising the capture of assets over needless distruction but with Calder on the warpath he may now see every Terran target as fair game. Could he end up being a obstacle to a negotiated peace?

[qwadtep]

I doubt it. Calder fights out of duty, but he's FURIOUS with the Elders for their mismanagement of the war. If Calder finds out the details of Shambhala and it's nearly as bad as it's implied to be I could see him surrendering to Steele for humanity's sake.

[bigchunk1]

Just had to interrupt my weekly lurkings. This is the part of the article that gets me the most:

Brown had written a letter of thanks to Stigler, but one day, he showed the extent of his gratitude. He organized a reunion of his surviving crew members, along with their extended families. He invited Stigler as a guest of honor.

During the reunion, a video was played showing all the faces of the people that now lived -- children, grandchildren, relatives -- because of Stigler's act of chivalry. Stigler watched the film from his seat of honor.

"Everybody was crying, not just him," Warner says.

I think hate is closer to love than indifference since it requires a greater understanding of the other. If that German pilot failed to see his 'target' as a bunch of helpless people, that plane would have been destroyed and these families would not be alive today.

[crazy_dave]

Au contraire, it is because it is an excellent post on the very topics that BP is so often concerned with.

When I read this article back when it was first published, I almost posted here because I thought it might be something BP forumers would find interesting vis-a-vis the morality conflicts presented in BP. I didn't because I wasn't sure it was appropriate, but I'm glad someone else did. It's also just a great story.