Author Topic: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion  (Read 55053 times)

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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
This is assuming you are willing to concede that Trump supports and emboldens white supremacists. Goober was willing to disavow white supremacy, which is laudable and is more than Trump has done. I think Trump understands, in one way or another, that refusing to ever give his opponents anything, even a concession to 'disavow white supremacy' or 'respect the results of the election', makes him look stronger to his base.

If Trump being so unwilling to disavow white supremacy isn't a dealbreaker for Goober, then clearly Goober doesn't have as much of a problem with white supremacy as he wants to think he does.

See, this is what I mean when I refer to an "echo chamber". Here on HLP - and indeed, in much of the internet communities - the falsehood that gets repeated constantly is that Trump won't denounce white supremacy.

This is not only a lie, it's an easily disprovable lie (I found the articles below in 5 minutes of Googling)! C'mon, people... do some basic fact-checking before you simply echo what you hear. I'm sure Trump provides plenty of "ammo" to use in your arguments against him; there's no need to repeat the falsehoods.

2017: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40929627
2019: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/trump-condemns-racism-bigotry-and-white-supremacy.html
2020: https://www.voanews.com/usa/amid-growing-criticism-trump-condemns-white-supremacy

Putting the response where it belongs.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion

In general I agree with Phantom but I'll just say, it's very telling that he always needs to be asked twice.

e: mjn beat me

 
Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
It's been a few days now since the staff actually gave any kind of update on this situation (except for Sandwich arguing with people...) so I have to ask what's going on. It seems to be nearly universally acknowledged that Goober's 'apology' is insultingly inadequate and has restored no confidence at all in his position, but it's on staff now to make the next move. I have to again reiterate my concern that this issue will get bogged down in the HLP mode of infinite discussion, no consensus and relaxation to the status quo.
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Offline Sandwich

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
It's been a few days now since the staff actually gave any kind of update on this situation (except for Sandwich arguing with people...) so I have to ask what's going on. It seems to be nearly universally acknowledged that Goober's 'apology' is insultingly inadequate and has restored no confidence at all in his position, but it's on staff now to make the next move. I have to again reiterate my concern that this issue will get bogged down in the HLP mode of infinite discussion, no consensus and relaxation to the status quo.

It is still being actively discussed with the admins and moderators. Goober took the weekend off to have a break from everything, and AFAIK he intends to jump back in today. I apologize that this is taking as long as it is; hopefully now that the emails are working again and the weekend is over, things will progress a bit faster.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Oh, from the way things were going, I thought this was resolved.

Thanks for the update, good to know you guys are still discussing it.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
What a lovely thread filled with ancient grudges that are being dredged up. Personally I had deemed it obvious that Goober wasn't fit for admin leadership for years now, and I had thought that had become pretty apparent in the thread about avatars. Where he displayed all his strange ideas about hierarchy on a dead forum for a 20 year old dead game about fictional space ships. And if that wasn't enough, the thread where he publicly humiliate himself for all to see in his 'rapture is coming because a few stars are going to allign' should have tanked any and all credibility he may have once had.
I find it pretty telling about the state of HLP that all of this thread isn't even related to FS2 but was caused by american politics. Actual posting about the game and its mods seems to have almost completely dried up while a 'drama' thread gets all the attention. Whether Goobs stays as admin in this wasteland or not doesn't really concern me all that much at this point, for these are my final two posts on HLP. But he should probably stand back and stand by. :V

In fact, I learned this point on my very first day here:

My first post on HLP offered proofreading services to campaign designers. The original version of the post included some text that I intended as a lame "har har" joke.

But someone happened to find that extra text deeply offensive. And the whole thing blew up in my face.

Fun fact about that thread:
Spoiler:
If TopAce hadn't jumped in right away with his, uh, distraction, I would have left that first day and never come back, humiliated as I was. :blah: But luckily, things turned out differently.

Suppose that a ton of people had found that text offensive and not just one person. In that scenario, it might well have been reasonable to expect me to post a public apology for a remark that many perceived as inflammatory, even if I thought it was completely innocuous. Because, once again, perceptions matter.

And I was a nobody who had just joined. Consider how much higher the stakes would have been for an incident of far greater magnitude involving someone who had been on the forum for years, with "Administrator" under their name.

Oh, and for the record, I did apologize. Here's an excerpt from a PM I sent to Goober shortly after that:
And as I mentioned on IRC, I'm really sorry about this mess. I didn't expect my post to cause any of that, although in retrospect I guess I should have. I was expecting that people would look at the username, roll their eyes, and ignore it. I guess that's what they would have done if I hadn't included that extra paragraph about the username origin.
(For anyone who didn't know, "jg18" is not the username I registered under.)
''''Deeply offensive.'''' No lol, try 'mildly annoyed'. Even looking back at that thread I still find myself agreeing with the point I made, it's pretty dumb to join a community and starting off by selecting a name and a first post specifically to let everyone know that you found an old joke in someone's signature offensive. I would say that you could have done what you expected other people to be doing. Roll your eyes and ignore it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That being said, though. Boy, is it rough reading some of my old posts. Young Spoon had no chill, and I was often needlessly confrontational and probably under the impression that the world owed me something and that my opinions on things were important for all to hear. So yeah, even if I still agree with the point of my posts then, I could have delivered it in a significantly more diplomatic way. Or, ideally, I should have just rolled my eyes and ignored it.
So yeah, I'll just do what Goober seems incapable of doing here, and apologize for needlessly being a jerk to you back then, jg18.
Also know that it was never anything personal and I never held it against you or anything, it was just the way I posted back then, communicating in a very direct manner (speaking my mind) without really giving too much thought about the feelings of the person on the other end of the internet tube.

Anyway, peace out nerds.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Your very public reminder that this thread is not for discussion of politics, and most especially who is (or is not) a white supremacist or supporter thereof.  Any further posts on that matter will be relocated to Political Discussions (none of the previous comments have been for the sake of thread integrity), moderators and administrators included.

Thank you to those who have already done so.
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
But he should probably stand back and stand by. :V

Holy ****, my sides have left orbit.

Bye Spoon!

I kind of agree with the assessment on HLP as a whole, but what do you expect, it's a 20 year old game about fictional spaceships.

 
Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Discord though

 

Offline Rhymes

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
no joshua haven't you heard everything must be doom and gloom forever it's the latest thing
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Discord though

Yep. All the action is happening on there. So the forums look quiet.
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Offline jg18

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Aww, among Spoon's last words here was a legit apology to me. :o Sad to see him go, though.

And yeah I'll admit my entrance/username thing was a dumb idea. But eh, it was 9 years ago, so whatever.

Back to this....

It is still being actively discussed with the admins and moderators. Goober took the weekend off to have a break from everything, and AFAIK he intends to jump back in today. I apologize that this is taking as long as it is; hopefully now that the emails are working again and the weekend is over, things will progress a bit faster.
Cool. Looking forward to reading what Goob has to say.

Discord though

Yep. All the action is happening on there. So the forums look quiet.
Huh, interesting. I'll have to get back on that, then.


EDIT: Small correction.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 09:32:29 pm by jg18 »

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Discord though

Yep. All the action is happening on there. So the forums look quiet.
This isn't 2001 anymore. Forums are mostly used for releases and status updates, not for daily talk. Except for the people who crave so much attention and drama that they have to let poldisc live I guess.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Poldisc is there so that the discord can tell people to shut up and go back to the forums if they want to talk about how the Great Awakening is happening soon or something :P

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
For the record, PolDisc is there so the oft-contentious content therein stays out of GenDisc.

And Discord sucks. That UI makes very little sense. :wtf:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
For the record, PolDisc is there so the oft-contentious content therein stays out of GenDisc.

And Discord sucks. That UI makes very little sense. :wtf:

It's a glorified IRC client, it seems perfectly sensible to me. Servers on the far left, channels on the left, the actual text in the middle, text box at the bottom. Can't make more sense then that.

Also you have a terrible sense of humour  :P

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
It's a glorified IRC client, it seems perfectly sensible to me. Servers on the far left, channels on the left, the actual text in the middle, text box at the bottom. Can't make more sense then that.

No, the big-picture panel arrangement is fine; it's all the little stuff cluttering it up that are annoying. But that's OT.

Also you have a terrible sense of humour  :P

Them's fighting words there.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
*skims thread*  Yup, I was right.  You guys... do you.  Side note: ah, never mind, I can leave PolDisc from my profile.  Ciao! 

@Goobs: told you so.

 
Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
This, right here, is a great example of when it's time to shut up and listen to the community. The active majority have made it clear that Goober's very thin apology is insufficient. They - and I - would very much like to know how Goober intends to actually make amends for his severe lapse in judgement and abuse of his position.

* -Joshua- takes note of the date

I hasten to add that I don't harbour any particular ill-will towards Goober, as he's a man who once told me:
I have noticed that, despite your political views, you tend to be a little more sane and a little less foaming-at-the-mouth than certain other people.

However we've been closing in on this situation being a month ago now and it still hasn't come to any sort of conclusion, let alone where the conditions as stated in the OP have been met.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Regarding Goober5000 & Moderation in Political Discussion
Joshua, I understand the eagerness to see things resolved properly. I can say that I now understand why governments seem to take AGES to get anything accomplished... and that we are still actively working it out. If I had to give a progress estimate, I'd say 70-80%, but don't quote me on that.

I mean... I guess you can literally quote me on that? Just don't hold it as a pinky swear. ;)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill