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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Series Resurrecta => Topic started by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 04:38:44 am

Title: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 04:38:44 am
(https://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/37/36374/profile/moty.svg)

On behalf of the SerRes Team I'm proud to announce to the public the astounding results of Series Resurrecta (https://www.moddb.com/mods/series-resurrecta) in ModDB's Mod of the Year Awards, 2020 Edition.

As you all probably know, this is a rather niche genre so we did not expect an overall major result in a world that is dominated by RTS and FPS games, but within the Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi genre, we achieved the following results. Again, thanks for voting SerRes!


(https://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/48/47552/kn_banner.png)

1) Best Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi Mod of the Year released in 2020;

2) Second Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi Mod of the Year, right behind Crossfire, a 2015 Freelancer mod;

3) Best Mod of the Year based on the FreeSpace Open Engine;

4) Overall, 161st out of 43,950 mods hosted by the website;




For further information on how MotYA's voting system works, you may wish to read the Official Rules (https://www.moddb.com/groups/2020-mod-of-the-year-awards/legal) as well as this statement (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=97188.msg1906262#msg1906262) that includes additional details concerning SerRes' ranking. All of the claims posted above have been verified and approved by ModDB's founder and primary administrator.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 02:10:04 pm
A) the final awards haven't been announced yet?

B) this mod isn't even in the top 100, Crossfire for Freelancer is; you're basically announcing that your mod has been knocked out of the running by Crossfire

C) did any other FreeSpace mods even enter?

This seems like announcing Kim Jong Un won best dictator in North Korea. If you define a field of one...
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 02:39:09 pm
All information concerning SerRes' ranking has been provided by ModDB admins who have access to all details concerning all mods that ranked between 101 and 160. Considering that the final competition is restricted to the Top 100, and considering that there's just one Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi mod in there, all points made are valid because positions 101 to 161 (and that'd include Series Resurrecta) are frozen at this point.

An admin in particular performed several queries using their search functions and confirmed what you can read in the very first post of this thread (a similar article has been published (https://www.moddb.com/mods/series-resurrecta/news/series-resurrecta-is-the-best-2020-futuristic-sim-sci-fi-in-moddbs-motya) on SerRes' ModDB profile, also approved by ModDB's administration). Just to be 100% sure I was doing the same thing, all points listed above have been relayed to said admin prior to HLP posting, and the admin confirmed their consistency.

I was even told that Crossfire was allowed to 2020's MotYA edition (despite being a 2015 release), due to the fact that it's under constant upgrade and revision. Future MotYA contests may take into account the year of first release, though this is still uncertain.


Speaking of your "point C", there's no requirement for any mod to "participate" to this contest. All mods participate by default and fans can vote for them regardless of any other factor.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 03:03:42 pm
If "winning" a category of one motivates you, hey, keep at it. Can't argue with anything that gets missions out the door.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 03:06:55 pm
In fact, we are working steadily on the next release. The only reason we're posting fewer screenshots than expected is due to most screenshots being so spoilerish they'd ruin the mood of the forthcoming SR pack. The Eyecandy Thread (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96968.0) features several screenshots of what we're currently working on, and they're (mostly!) spoiler free.  :)
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: JSRNerdo on December 13, 2020, 04:43:48 pm
If "winning" a category of one motivates you, hey, keep at it. Can't argue with anything that gets missions out the door.

A mod won an award on ModDB, congratulations. Why is your first response immediately to compare its creators as Kim Jong Un and dismiss it as a field of one?
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 04:46:21 pm
It didn't win an award on ModDB. I think that explains my response entirely: you think it did because this post is meant to be misleading. Nobody voted for Best Futuristic blah blah blah released in 2020. Nobody voted for Best Mod Based on the FreeSpace Open Engine. There are no such awards, they're invented.

This mod got the most votes from people asked to vote for a FreeSpace mod on ModDB Mod of the Year. That's all. If the designers find that empowering or motivating, sincerely more power to them; do what it takes to do the work.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 04:50:25 pm
I am one of the best FREDders on Earth. That's great, it makes me feel good. But there's like eight of us, and you could probably say three of them are in this thread.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Droid803 on December 13, 2020, 04:56:05 pm
Don't really know how ModDB awards work, but congrats!
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 04:58:31 pm
More broadly it irritates me to see any kind of parochialism or implied internal contest in a cathedral modding community. Even in the context of PC modding we're a droplet under the fridge. There are no stakes here; there is absolutely no reason to do anything in search of external validation unless you find that personally motivating (which, okay, go off). Declaring yourself Best Mod 2020 is just silly vanity.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mito [PL] on December 13, 2020, 05:06:35 pm
Just let them have their fun!
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Phantom Hoover on December 13, 2020, 05:10:29 pm
i thought this was fair enough but the fact that these aren't official award categories and you actually placed number 161 and had to basically restrict the selection to find any reason to call yourself number 1 is really pretty pathetic :/
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 05:12:42 pm
It's not pathetic, it's cool if it feels cool for em. Getting a release out the door at all is a significant feat and worthy of praise (especially these days). I just think it's a little silly to puff it up like this.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nightmare on December 13, 2020, 05:16:14 pm
i thought this was fair enough but the fact that these aren't official award categories and you actually placed number 161 and had to basically restrict the selection to find any reason to call yourself number 1 is really pretty pathetic :/

LMFAO, says a guy who does not contribute :wakka: :wakka:
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 05:23:03 pm
I don't agree with calling this pathetic, but you're just as wrong, Nightmare. Phantom does significant and important work on the FSO engine. He recently figured out what the **** is going on with side thrust and glide physics.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: TopAce on December 13, 2020, 05:23:49 pm
Deep analysis aside, being 161st out of 43,950 is preeeeetty darn good.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 05:30:19 pm
i thought this was fair enough but the fact that these aren't official award categories and you actually placed number 161 and had to basically restrict the selection to find any reason to call yourself number 1 is really pretty pathetic :/

It's not pathetic; it's calculated by taking into account the fact that Sci-Fi sims as we know them, except for sporadic games such as Star Wars: Squadrons, are a rather niche genre. I mean, look around you: what's this very website about, if not preserving a game and its genre within the context of videogaming?

The Top 100 list is literally filled with RTS and FPS games which are way more popular than FreeSpace. We knew since the beginning that it wasn't possible to compete against these genres in absolute terms, but we may have performed admirably in our own niche. Just one "Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi" mod, a Freelancer mod to be more precise, has achieved a better result compared to SR. A mod which happens to have been released in 2015, and definitely had more time to buildup a strong fanbase (the first release of SR, Shadows of the Great War, dates to mid October 2020).

Now, if you are wondering why FPS and RTS games are more popular, that's a topic for a completely different discussion.  :nod:
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 05:33:20 pm
Deep analysis aside, being 161st out of 43,950 is preeeeetty darn good.

Yeah I mean I won't lie that's not bad. It shows this community can still turn out.

I just think it's silly to try to use that as an internal metric to judge Revived Series against other mods here on HLP. Which — to be fair — the original post only did once.

I'm not a big fan of zero sum competitions within the community. I think they tend to go bad places. Making a mountain out of ModDB ranking seems to at least lean that way.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 05:39:26 pm
I disagree; SR's position on ModDB has been consolidated over months of activity and steady work. We've uploaded content at regular intervals, published news and apparently attracted someone's attention. Some of the followers probably didn't even know about FreeSpace prior to watching SR's profile. This would normally qualify as something that deserves recognition because it contributes to what this community is about - promoting FreeSpace modding.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 05:43:56 pm
Hey, if a steady PR campaign is actually paying off, more power. I'm impressed.

But I'd kind of want raw vote totals to judge that. If it's just 11 people who got a link on Discord and voted that's not necessarily grabbing new eyes.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2020, 05:44:23 pm
I do feel I've kind of dragged the energy here down a bit.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 13, 2020, 06:33:24 pm
This thread, and the contest behind it, are not a way to implicitly promote SR as "the collection featuring the best FreeSpace campaigns ever".

It turns out that a notable website for modders has a contest every single year and 2020's edition brought very good results for a FreeSpace mod, which found itself competing with mods that don't even run on the same engine. There results were definitely worth sharing considering how niche the Space sim genre is. Anything else about the purpose of this thread is purely conjectural.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: DefCynodont119 on December 13, 2020, 06:34:59 pm
Phantom does significant and important work on the FSO engine. He recently figured out what the **** is going on with side thrust and glide physics.

Hypothetically, Could it possible to make True Newtonian physics with this information?

I would be interested in that.

For hypothetical reasons. . . .
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 14, 2020, 04:20:44 am
For the record, the claims posted at the beginning of this thread have been triple checked and are therefore confirmed.

During this extra check we've also received additional details on the final ranking: no FreeSpace mods other than SerRes are in the Top 200. Speaking of the mods present in the Top 100, 29 of them are five or more years old, and some 20 mods have been released this year.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Phantom Hoover on December 14, 2020, 05:22:30 am
Calling it 'pathetic' was a low blow, and I apologise for that. For what it's worth, I voted for SR when Mobius PMed me and everyone else asking for support, because hey, it's 0 effort and it might get HLP a little more attention. It may still do that, but placing behind a 5 year old Freelancer mod is a fairly disappointing result and I really didn't like the sense that you're trying to dress the result up as something it isn't. Call it a personal allergy to marketing more than anything.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 14, 2020, 06:00:55 am
SerRes - SotGW has been released two months ago and building up a strong fanbase in such a time span is difficult. The Freelancer community seems to have decided to focus on one of their release and this may have contributed to Crossfire's results, among other factors. I surely don't blame them.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nightmare on December 17, 2020, 07:34:41 am
If Crossfire is basically the "biggest" mod the Freelancer community has to offer (though I don't know anything about the FL community), it is not surprising that it is more popular compared to a mod that was released only a few months - having been released several years ago is not a drawback in this case, it's an advantage.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on December 17, 2020, 08:06:50 am
I've heard from ModDB's staff again so here's a quick update/recap statement on some of the important details concerning the contest (in fact, this post will be linked at the very beginning of this thread). I'm splitting the news I got in a schematic way for better understanding:

MotYA Official Rules (https://www.moddb.com/groups/2020-mod-of-the-year-awards/legal)

1) The exact amount of votes will not be revealed by ModDB's staff, though we've been confirmed to be extremely close to the Top 100 mark, in terms of pure votes;

2) That said, it's worth noting that MotYA relies on algorithms that don't treat all votes equally. Votes cast by ModDB members have more value compared to those cast by visitors, and new profiles created during or right before MotYA are also treated accordingly in order to prevent spam or vote manipulation;

3) The above mentioned difference in terms of "vote weight" is what increased the gap between SR and the Top 100, thus leading to the 161st overall rank. This has been confirmed by ModDB's founder and primary administrator who has access to all data regarding MotYA. In poor words, on average, we got many votes from visitors, and fewer votes from ModDB members;

4) Though all mods participate by default and can in fact be voted by anyone, access to the final phases of the contest is restricted to active mods, id est mods which have been released recently or even a few years ago, providing they're still maintained and updated on a regular basis;

5) A fact checking thread has been created and posted on SR internal for quick verification by SR Team members as well as HLP administrators, should any of the mentioned categories require more information on the matter.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on December 17, 2020, 03:31:38 pm
Isn't this a bit premature?
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Strygon on December 17, 2020, 04:45:33 pm
Not really? As far as I know, Mobius confirmed(?) through ModDb admins that the position is more or less solidified for SerRes.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on January 08, 2021, 03:29:25 am
Hey? I can't find any mention of FS2 let alone Series Resurrecta in the MOTY 2020 results?
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: The E on January 08, 2021, 03:34:58 am
Because it didn't break the top 100.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on January 08, 2021, 03:40:10 am
Surely a mod that is cited as being the
Quote
1) Best Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi Mod of the Year released in 2020;
should atleast get a honourable mention?
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: The E on January 08, 2021, 04:08:48 am
Yes, if that were an official categorization by the moddb team. Which it isn't; it's the result of filtering the results long enough, just like the "Best mod based on FSO" is.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 04:42:21 am
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, ModDB no longer issues detailed statistics so all of the stats reported in the first post have been extrapolated and confirmed via queries run by the website's founder and main administrator. The only thing we could do was the release of a news article (https://www.moddb.com/mods/series-resurrecta/news/series-resurrecta-is-the-best-2020-futuristic-sim-sci-fi-in-moddbs-motya) citing the results; the article was approved by ModDB's admins and we're fine with it. This thread is based on that news article.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: The E on January 08, 2021, 04:57:37 am
Look, Mobius, I'm not saying that any of the things you stated in that post are wrong. They are, to the best of my knowledge, all true. However: as far as I am concerned, there's a big asterisk next to all of them. Being first in a race in which you were the only active participant (like, for example, the "Best mod based on FSO" category: You were the only team that cared to put out anything even remotely resembling a PR campaign, so of course you won) is not something I'd be proud of or that I would use in promotional material, but you do you.
As Battuta stated earlier, coming in on the 161st place or wherever you scored overall isn't nothing. What bothers me here is the careful massaging of the relevant statistics you've done to be able to claim some firsts; it's not dishonest to do so since you weren't lying about anything, but it definitely is misleading, and I prefer not to be misled.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 05:20:34 am
As I stated many times already, the one real asterisk to all points made is "...compared to other mods which are actively being updated and maintained on ModDB". We said many times it's not meant to be an absolute parameter on mod quality, yet we're here, trying to clarify this for the Nth time.  :rolleyes:

What bothers me here is the careful massaging of the relevant statistics you've done to be able to claim some firsts; it's not dishonest to do so since you weren't lying about anything, but it definitely is misleading, and I prefer not to be misled.

I kind of believe you are intentionally cherrypicking the things about the deal which you think are bad and building up the entire argument around them. I did not ask the admin specifically for "things SerRes ended up being good at because I need something to show off". I asked for statistics, which the site seems to be lacking for the reasons we stated I don't know how many times already, and it turns out I got more than what I asked for. The statistics seem very specific and go into the details simply because FreeSpace, and futuristic sims as a whole, are so niche the queries have to be performed accordingly. That's the whole story behind the "details".
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: The E on January 08, 2021, 06:27:45 am
I kind of believe you are intentionally cherrypicking the things about the deal which you think are bad and building up the entire argument around them. I did not ask the admin specifically for "things SerRes ended up being good at because I need something to show off". I asked for statistics, which the site seems to be lacking for the reasons we stated I don't know how many times already, and it turns out I got more than what I asked for. The statistics seem very specific and go into the details simply because FreeSpace, and futuristic sims as a whole, are so niche the queries have to be performed accordingly. That's the whole story behind the "details".

You do realize that you just confirmed everything I said?

Let me be as plain as possible here:
I do not like this kind of self-aggrandizing promotion you've done. "Best mod of the year based on FSO" is meaningless. "Best futuristic/SciFi mod of the year released in 2020" is less so, but it's still based around being a single fish in a mostly empty pool. "Second place behind Crossfire" is meaningful, but again: Crossfire made it to the top 100. SerRes did not, and based on absolute rankings, the gap in popularity between these two is far larger than what your use of the words "right behind" implies.

It doesn't matter to me that ModDB's admins approved these statements. As I said earlier, they're obviously true. My sole point here is that, had I been in your position, I would have left it at "We finished at 161st", which (and I repeat myself) is definitely not nothing and wouldn't have required any asterisks or explanations whatsoever. I do not like to be misled and I do not like to mislead, and I consider you highlighting these statistical artifacts to be misleading because, again, they're all the results of SerRes being one fish in a very empty pool.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nightmare on January 08, 2021, 08:41:44 am
I kind of believe you are intentionally cherrypicking the things about the deal which you think are bad and building up the entire argument around them. I did not ask the admin specifically for "things SerRes ended up being good at because I need something to show off". I asked for statistics, which the site seems to be lacking for the reasons we stated I don't know how many times already, and it turns out I got more than what I asked for. The statistics seem very specific and go into the details simply because FreeSpace, and futuristic sims as a whole, are so niche the queries have to be performed accordingly. That's the whole story behind the "details".

You do realize that you just confirmed everything I said?

Let me be as plain as possible here:
I do not like this kind of self-aggrandizing promotion you've done. "Best mod of the year based on FSO" is meaningless. "Best futuristic/SciFi mod of the year released in 2020" is less so, but it's still based around being a single fish in a mostly empty pool. "Second place behind Crossfire" is meaningful, but again: Crossfire made it to the top 100. SerRes did not, and based on absolute rankings, the gap in popularity between these two is far larger than what your use of the words "right behind" implies.

It doesn't matter to me that ModDB's admins approved these statements. As I said earlier, they're obviously true. My sole point here is that, had I been in your position, I would have left it at "We finished at 161st", which (and I repeat myself) is definitely not nothing and wouldn't have required any asterisks or explanations whatsoever. I do not like to be misled and I do not like to mislead, and I consider you highlighting these statistical artifacts to be misleading because, again, they're all the results of SerRes being one fish in a very empty pool.

So you think the appropriate way for you to celebrate the sites 20th birthday is to dump on the communities accomplishments? Damn.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 08:46:56 am
Well said, Nightmare. I don't think I exaggerate when I claim that similar comments are light years away from the climate the SerRes Team wants to establish over here. This board is for other kinds of content.

The E, you voiced your opinion. We appreciate the feedback but I don't see anything useful coming from further, similar statements. This approach to the core of this thread's topic is crossing the border between "legitimate questions/opinions" and "hate speech".
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:04:21 am
So you think the appropriate way for you to celebrate the sites 20th birthday is to dump on the communities accomplishments? Damn.

Do you do anything but try to start fights?

"hate speech".[/mobius]

God, I was about to speak up and say "if Mobius wants to trumpet some numbers, it's fine, no harm done." But then I read this godawful post. **** you.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:05:25 am
Listen, folks. Taking a personal dislike to the way I promote my FreeSpace mod? That's basically the same as calling for the extermination of the Armenian people. And that's hate.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:06:36 am
Genuinely one of the best worst posts I have ever seen. Awful and incredible.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:10:45 am
It's all in the numbers.

#161? That's terror.

#2 behind Crossfire? That's terror.

#1 FSO Mod of the Year? That's terror.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 09:13:44 am
Your comments are out of place, Battuta. Also, read your first post on this thread - you were the one who brought the topic of "dictatorship" into the equation and you're reiterating it even more.

Once again, I wonder what your contributions to this topic actually are. So far I don't see anything tangible other than voicing the same opinion repeatedly and crossing the subtle border between doing so and insulting other people's work.

We were about to make an important announcement on actual progress on this project, yet we are here discussing... well, I don't know what. The question is, can you add anything tangible to the topic? If so, keep posting and let's discuss it together.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:14:46 am
I'm sad to report that the Southern Poverty Law Center has now listed HLP as a hate group. We will really have to shape up and think about our words and deeds.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 08, 2021, 09:18:44 am
For the record, the claims posted at the beginning of this thread have been triple checked and are therefore confirmed.

During this extra check we've also received additional details on the final ranking: no FreeSpace mods other than SerRes are in the Top 200. Speaking of the mods present in the Top 100, 29 of them are five or more years old, and some 20 mods have been released this year.

Might be related to how noone has seriously cared about ModDB in the past decade or so.

Might be related to how a number of mods hosted here (hi Diaspora) have actively been trying to avoid the kind of website that has a history of gently forwarding C&D letters.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:19:10 am
(https://i.imgur.com/3hJVlvf.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8Fwq0sd.png)
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 09:22:33 am
For the record, the claims posted at the beginning of this thread have been triple checked and are therefore confirmed.

During this extra check we've also received additional details on the final ranking: no FreeSpace mods other than SerRes are in the Top 200. Speaking of the mods present in the Top 100, 29 of them are five or more years old, and some 20 mods have been released this year.

Might be related to how noone has seriously cared about ModDB in the past decade or so.

Might be related to how a number of mods hosted here (hi Diaspora) have actively been trying to avoid the kind of website that has a history of gently forwarding C&D letters.


Ok, finally a comment worth discussing. :)

What you're saying may have its fundaments but 1) are we mass boycotting ModDB? The last time I checked we're not and 2) even if there was one boycott in place would it justify all of this backlash against SR? IMO, it doesn't. And 3) do you think all of the crap seen in this thread is what you'd normally expect on a place that promotes modding?
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nightmare on January 08, 2021, 09:22:48 am
So you think the appropriate way for you to celebrate the sites 20th birthday is to dump on the communities accomplishments? Damn.

Do you do anything but try to start fights?

That was my first post in this thread in weeks. So no, I havent started this fight.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:24:42 am
Hate speech. Let me tell you how much I've come to suffer hate speech since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate speech' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate speech I experienced when The E disliked my mod contest numbers. For me. Hate. Hate.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 08, 2021, 09:27:27 am
Quote
Ok, finally a comment worth discussing. :)

What you're saying may have its fundaments but 1) are we mass boycotting ModDB? The last time I checked we're not and 2) even if there was one boycott in place would it justify all of this backlash against SR? IMO, it doesn't. And 3) do you think all of the crap seen in this thread is what you'd normally expect on a place that promotes modding?

Nah, it's just that as a general rule "mod X is better than mod Y" discussions do not exactly uplift the community, and a "best ranked FS mod" thread is exactly that.

The fact it's from ModDB just makes it doubly worse.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:30:30 am
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Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 09:31:02 am
Quote
Ok, finally a comment worth discussing. :)

What you're saying may have its fundaments but 1) are we mass boycotting ModDB? The last time I checked we're not and 2) even if there was one boycott in place would it justify all of this backlash against SR? IMO, it doesn't. And 3) do you think all of the crap seen in this thread is what you'd normally expect on a place that promotes modding?

Nah, it's just that as a general rule "mod X is better than mod Y" discussions do not exactly uplift the community, and a "best ranked FS mod" thread is exactly that.

The fact it's from ModDB just makes it doubly worse.

And we said many times already that the statements we made are not absolute. Nobody is making actual comparisons between mods.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:32:12 am
Can't believe that they are storming the united states capitol to overthrow Series Resurrecta ModDB Results. It's ****ed up
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 08, 2021, 09:42:32 am
I think we just all need to chill. I don't think there was any need to present the ModDB results in the... grandiose way you did, but I also don't think it has to be a big deal regardless.

More coverage for the community can't hurt, but I feel like you're overestimating the impact of those results, and how it objectively reflects on the actual quality of the mod (spoiler: it doesn't. Just like metacritic ratings don't really reflect the quality of games).

There's no need to continue spiraling into a toxic bashfest just because you're overenthusiastic about mostly meaningless ModDB rankings.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:46:52 am
I can't believe you want us to chill about The_E attempting to guillotine the creators of Series Resurrecta, Matth. You are enabling hate speech!
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 09:51:31 am
By gawd, he is beating the Italian Stallion with a folding chair! He's going to take Mobius to hell with him! Will no one stop this? Where is the ref? No, oh no, he's going to suplex that poor man through the ring! I can't watch!
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 09:55:09 am
I think we just all need to chill. I don't think there was any need to present the ModDB results in the... grandiose way you did, but I also don't think it has to be a big deal regardless.

More coverage for the community can't hurt, but I feel like you're overestimating the impact of those results, and how it objectively reflects on the actual quality of the mod (spoiler: it doesn't. Just like metacritic ratings don't really reflect the quality of games).

There's no overestimation, no attempts to try and pull the strings anywhere, none of the things you fear are being done are actually being done. What I see is several overreactions to the announcement made on this thread, which have quietly become "softened insults" more than once. Look above and judge it yourself.

I understand that the topic may have "triggered" a few weird reactions in a limited number of community members, and we discussed the matter accordingly. Other than this, I don't see the need to keep the mocking going. We haven't done anything bad for the community and we're all mature enough to keep our own opinions on the matter.

All of this prepotence at trying to demolish said announcement is totally uncalled for.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 08, 2021, 09:57:57 am
I for one am very disturbed to see attempts to play down the severity of this situation in this thread. SerRes has received more harrassment, death threats and flaming bags of rocks thrown through the window than any other FreeSpace 1-era mod released by an Italian-Polish team in October 2020, and that's an extremely troubling trend.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 09:59:26 am
There's a strong German and American presence in the team, too.  :)
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 10:02:25 am
No one's mocking you about your mod you're being mocked because you called the mildest of criticism hate speech. Like someone just hung a noose from your front porch. You hate to see it, you really do.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on January 08, 2021, 10:47:32 am
I kind of believe you are intentionally cherrypicking the things about the deal which you think are bad and building up the entire argument around them. I did not ask the admin specifically for "things SerRes ended up being good at because I need something to show off". I asked for statistics, which the site seems to be lacking for the reasons we stated I don't know how many times already, and it turns out I got more than what I asked for. The statistics seem very specific and go into the details simply because FreeSpace, and futuristic sims as a whole, are so niche the queries have to be performed accordingly. That's the whole story behind the "details".

So ignoring this whole ****fest that just kicked off, this thread is just you cherrypicking the results. I was genuinely under the impression that you had, you know, won something, and me not finding anything in the MODDB was a mistake on my part. Critique of that is not "hate speech" (imagine critiquing someone on HLP making you a fascist!), you are yourself cherrypicking and some people (like me) don't like that approach.

If I was going down that route, I would point out that you did a similar thing like claiming the trains run on time when they in fact didn't, but then I'd be comparing you to a fascist.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 10:52:27 am
Joshua, you know I wasn't referring to you and if I somehow gave the impression that I was blaming you for anything, I apologize. Your contributions to this thread have been genuine. You and MatthTheGeek posted legitimate questions politely and got polite answers, as one would expect in public board like this one.  :)
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 08, 2021, 10:57:13 am
 :banghead: Bruh...

Quote
SR is the best mod in the whole ****ing universe! It's way better then the best rated 3A games ever published! None of our assets is lower then 500k tris! Our missions are absolutely bugless! Our writing is better then Philip K. Dick! You guys should drop development of everything else, as SR will certainly outshine everything you make! Huh! You just should stop breathing, eating and even existing at all, because who needs such activities, when you can play SR all day long and your entire life!

- Anybody have seen advertisement like that? No.
- Do SR think about itself this way? No.

Because blah blah no obligatory "best mod" exist, because each mod is different, because modmakers have varied taste and different ideas, because mod diversity is what's the best thing here, because grass is green, because butter is buttery and because blah blah insert rest of the obvious stuff here.

- Can people see and read "2020 Futuristic Sim" capitalized, and coming with "ModDB's MotYA" in the title? They obviously can.
But pfff...
- Did we explain it before? Yes.
- Is this a reason to turn it into another drama with tons of ****posting? No.
- Is this an opportunity to turn it into another drama? Apparently for some people obviously yes.

Okay, lelz is fun but let's get to the merits.

From my perspective I feel little to no need to add something like "This is not selfish and arrogant statement of SR team, but annoucement of MotY contest results" because I don't see people here as incompetent. Also there is no arbitrary rule here that imperatively dictates that "ModDB sucks balls". If somebody is biased against ModDB, it's an issue of this very individual. Not mine, not rest of the team, and not those who actively browse or participy in daily ModDB life. I assume that some of the people here do care. If one does not, move along.

However the issues have been noted. Fortunately we have services of professional editor available, so our news will be redacted by coherent pair of eyes to avoid confusing situations in the upcoming future.

Now plz, calm down, return home and be a family people. Nyx signing off, returning to his shadowy lair of everlasting torments to forge more ships. Don't force me to come back here to kill another thread. Any interpersonal issues may be discussed somewhere else, as this thread diverged enough from it's original purpose.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on January 08, 2021, 11:11:58 am
Quote
From my perspective I feel little to no need to add something like "This is not selfish and arrogant statement of SR team, but annoucement of MotY contest results"

But crucially, it isn't an announcement of MotY contest results. The MotY doesn't run with the categories mentioned in the OP at all. You can check these results for yourself, they are on the ModDB website. There is no mention of Series Ressurecta (or freespace, or "best scifi") anywhere.

That to me makes it an arrogant statement.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: -Joshua- on January 08, 2021, 11:12:59 am
Joshua, you know I wasn't referring to you and if I somehow gave the impression that I was blaming you for anything, I apologize. Your contributions to this thread have been genuine. You and MatthTheGeek posted legitimate questions politely and got polite answers, as one would expect in public board like this one.  :)

That's beside the point. I think The_E made perfectly valid points and said them in ways I couldn't have done better myself. To dismiss that as "hate speech" just makes you look worse.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 11:23:44 am
From my perspective I feel little to no need to add something like "This is not selfish and arrogant statement of SR team, but annoucement of MotY contest results" because I don't see people here as incompetent. Also there is no arbitrary rule here that imperatively dictates that "ModDB sucks balls". If somebody is biased against ModDB, it's an issue of this very individual. Not mine, not rest of the team, and not those who actively browse or participy in daily ModDB life. I assume that some of the people here do care. If one does not, move along.

Speaking of the website itself, I've only recently learned about certain C&D notes issued by ModDB to a number of FreeSpace mods previously hosted on that website. I also learned that in one particular case, the mod was closed and nobody in said mod's team received a notification or anything on the matter.

While we all feel kind of meh with respect to these events, they don't automatically imply that this community should mass boycott the website, which I find very handy and reliable when it comes to storing stuff and graphical content. Its download options are now rather obsolete compared to Knossos' updates and FSO builds management, but all other functions are still being performed in a way that I find rather comfortable.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Aesaar on January 08, 2021, 11:33:41 am
This approach to the core of this thread's topic is crossing the border between "legitimate questions/opinions" and "hate speech".

****ing lol.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 11:35:53 am
It's an early contender for best post of 2021.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 11:37:47 am
I actually think it's kind of cool that a FreeSpace mod about (something) got any traction on ModDB at all. But that post is an absolute popper, it's going straight in my personal hall of fame.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: perihelion on January 08, 2021, 11:58:44 am
Jiminy Christmas, it's no wonder Axem left.  Would ALL of you please grow the **** up and check your egos at the login page?

Talk about a tempest in a teacup...
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 12:02:47 pm
You'll have to trust me when I say that Axem still gets to enjoy the finest garmonbozia HLP produces, in carefully curated form.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 08, 2021, 12:07:47 pm
Quote
From my perspective I feel little to no need to add something like "This is not selfish and arrogant statement of SR team, but annoucement of MotY contest results"

But crucially, it isn't an announcement of MotY contest results. The MotY doesn't run with the categories mentioned in the OP at all. You can check these results for yourself, they are on the ModDB website. There is no mention of Series Ressurecta (or freespace, or "best scifi") anywhere.

That to me makes it an arrogant statement.
It actually does. And it was surprising for me when Mobius forwarded the PM from one of ModDB admins, as I found no public information regerding it either. Apparently admins provide detailed stats related to certain genres to leaders of mod teams.

Dunno why such stats are not public. Perhaps because they used to generate drama or something. For me it was mostly "oh, it's nice to know" thing.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 08, 2021, 12:14:54 pm
If I got it right, ModDB stopped providing detailed statistics the same year they stopped rewarding the top mods with prize money.

I think it had something to do with the extra "legal and bureaucratical" bit that was required by law whenever a mod received a prize in actual money. No more prize money, no more legal requirement to spend extra time issuing extremely detailed statistics.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: qazwsx on January 08, 2021, 12:36:38 pm
Perhaps SR would have been in the top 100 if the marketing was better :v
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2021, 02:55:23 pm
I've been trying to animate the Bad Post all day, man where did all the good free gif makers go??
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 08, 2021, 03:06:40 pm
Intend to just use Imgflip. Not great for gifs though.


Srsly though,  this thread is a bit.... Unstable.  I'm glad there's a noteworthy freeapce mod out there raising the engines profile.  Buuuut, can we all try loading the last save before hostility.


(pssst General, are you still in comms with Axem?)
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 08, 2021, 04:38:12 pm
What the **** is even going on here?  I look at Discord and see allusions to idiocy, I look at reported posts and see my inbox full of idiocy, and I can only conclude the thread is full of idiocy until there's time for a few moderators to read it and get a handle on it.

So....locked.  Until a couple of us have time to read it.

It's 2021, people, can we not leave the bull**** in 2020 where it belongs.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mobius on January 09, 2021, 01:48:07 am
For the record (I speak on behalf of the entire team), I agree with the current lock as a temporary measure meant to settle things down for a while. However, future and polite discussions should be allowed in this thread.

Many contributors have posted valid comments in a polite way and received equally polite answers - that should be allowed to happen again once the situation is settled.
Title: Re: Series Resurrecta is the best 2020 Futuristic Sim / Sci-Fi in ModDB's MotYA
Post by: Mongoose on January 11, 2021, 06:41:12 pm
Okay, even by our standards, this was a special level of stupid. There was absolutely no reason for this to escalate the way it did, and everyone involved needs to smarten up in a hurry. A few warnings have been handed out, and the mods have decided that the thread will remain locked, since there seems to be little chance of productive discussion going forward.