Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Mission & Campaign Releases => Topic started by: Legate Damar on June 04, 2012, 07:27:29 pm
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This is a 1 - mission demo of the campaign I am working on and the first thing I have released for Freespace.
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?tkt494wixylna3w
Requirements:
Freespace Open (I mostly made it on 3.6.14 RC6 so try that one, other builds might work though)
Mediavps 3.6.12
Installation instructions:
Unzip the file and place the LoS-Demo directory into your freespace folder, then run the launcher, select the folder in the mod tab, click apply, and then run. Make a new pilot to avoid pilot errors.
Much thanks to everyone who helped me so far, and everyone whose assets/stuff I used! (More complete list in the credits.tbl file that comes with the mod, you can read the credits in the tech room).
Please note that I am not an expert modder, so if you encounter any errors I will try my best to try to fix them but I cannot guarantee that I can, sorry!
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So. I played the mission, and I didn't have any weapons to fire.
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Did you make a new pilot?
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You forgot to allow the weapons in the campaign file
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Yes.
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That's weird, it was working fine for me... hold on.
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Just as a tip, it's always worth getting at least one other person to play your releases from scratch before you release them. A full Beta testing regime is better, of course, but even one person running through the install process and playing on a different computer will pick up stuff like this, as well as other common errors (missing files, dodgy mod.inis etc.)
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Thing is I am sure I enabled the stuff in the campaign... and it was working fine for me.
But try it now, I changed the link.
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Thing is I am sure I enabled the stuff in the campaign... and it was working fine for me.
Likely because you tested the missions individually.
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No, I was playing the campaign. Is it working now?
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Guys, I am going to bed very soon, so would someone please do me the courtesy of telling me if the campaign is working with my updated download link? Because I don't want to have a thread promoting a defective campaign up all night. That would probably piss a lot of people off.
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nope, not working.
have a good night cardassian. fredding is stressful. besides, i bet you can leave it to us to solve this particular problem ourselves.
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Okay, one more try. I tested this version just now and it worked, it should be working now. If it isn't.... well then I'm out of ideas.
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did you run it on debug? in the possible yet worst case scenario, it could be a problem with the table.
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It's working now.
EDIT: If you downloaded the old version, and then downloaded this one, make sure you make a new pilot. Pilot code will remember the old settings for the old campaign file that no longer exists. Bug in FS behavior, dare I say? I tried restarting but not switching the campaigns. If you're adventurous you can try switching to see if that solves the problem, as well.
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It's working now.
Excellent. Do you like it?
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It wasn't bad.
Your bomber directive wasn't triggering correctly though.
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I had no problem with it.
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That it worked perfectly fine on your end is quite irrelevant. We all have entirely different playstyles and because of that the same mission can play entirely differently for each of us. Everything that might happen, but doesn't happen during your normal playthrough, and that you didn't take into account while fredding, is a potential bug that will happen if/when someone does something differently than you.
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I'll admit to being a bit disappointed at the reaction to this demo release - even with minor teething troubles there ought to be more support for new FREDers. That first release is a stressful one where something tends to go wrong somewhere - we shouldn't be rolling our eyes at the fact that a new FREDer doesn't get everything perfect first time - be supportive, people!
I enjoyed it. The interface is a nice addition to a mod - would be cool if it was more Shivany, but that would be a little more difficult to pull off. I wasn't quite sure about the loading screen - maybe a bit busy - I couldn't work up the energy to figure out what was going on in it (or maybe it's just too early in the morning...).
The actual mission was fairly straightforward and not too much trouble - which is fine if this is an early mission of the mod, although I did let one of the craft escape because I was too busy having fun with the lovely Shivan ship. I think perhaps for the final mod the first mission should be free from time limits like that and include more dogfighting - just to let the player get the hang of the superior fighter without having to worry too much about getting things done quickly. Also the unknowns at the end felt a bit too easy - I was finishing the last off just as it was suggested I lure them into the corvette's firing range, so that comment fell a bit flat.
I wasn't sure about how serious the mod was supposed to be - my warped sense of humour did find Shivore 2's comments amusing, and the Shivans didn't seem all that concerned about being stranded from the fleet. One mission might not be enough to fully set the tone however.
The music wasn't really to my taste - but that might just be me, I don't know. You probably know your backgrounds could do with some work as well (I sympathise with you here, I always get someone else to do backgrounds for me for ED). This is probably just a practice issue though.
So, looks promising. Keep working on it!
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Had a playthrough, good work there for a first mission. I agree with Felix on all issues, particularly the one about new FREDers. However, cant wait to see what you come up with Legate.
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Thank you for the comments and suggestions. The thing is, like I said I am not a very experienced modder, so if someone tells me something like "this directive isn't working" but when I try it it works fine, then I really don't know how to fix it.
Yes, this is intended to be the first mission of the campaign (although the final version might change a bit). Destroying that ship before it escapes isn't necessary, just a bit of an extra challenge (although it's easy if you know about it in advance).
If you are finding the enemies too easy perhaps try a higher difficulty level.
This campaign is intended to be serious overall, but with a good amount of humor too.
Some explanation for the Shivans' nonchalance will be in the full campaign.
Also regarding the background, I did suspect it was a little sparce. I will spruce it up more for the full version .
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Alright here's my feedback.
First up, good job. There are some things in here that I haven't even tried yet. The menu music was cool. Had a retro feel that I was really digging. The weapon effects were also pretty neat. Also, the little tidbit in the debrief peaked my interest into the story a bit. Nice job.
Here's some specific issues I noticed with the modpack.
You've got several files in two different VPs (intro.ogg is one, and a lot of audio). You've also got some MVPs models and maps in your modpack. Given that your mod requires MVPs 3.6.12, this isn't necessary unless you actually changed the POFs or textures. If you are including model files, also include the cache files (data/cache/XXXX.bx). Also, your audio files. Some are in WAV and some in OGG. Some of them are also retail audio, which you don't need to carry in your mod. You should, however, convert all your audio to OGG.
Your mod download includes an empty data folder, that's unnecessary. You can also make use of the credits.tbl (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Credits.tbl) instead of a separate credits readme. In that same vein, use game_settings.tbl (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Game_settings.tbl) to set your default campaign.
I was somewhat disappointed to see that you basically used the exact buttons from my mainhall tutorial. I recommend you try to create something new and different. Perhaps a button style that matches your mod's Shivan tones and styles?
In your mod.ini, include a description and forum link to this thread. And finally, your cb anims should probably be the same aspect ration across all of them. I recommend 660x300 (the sorta hi-res standard).
For the missions...
Much of your briefing and message wording left a little to be desired. Are you a native english speaker? If not, it might be worth to have someone who is go over your text. Also, be sure to use something like emptymsg.wav for message sounds. It's just a beep so that players focused on action will be reminded to read the new message.
The Destroy Bombers directive never marked true. I couldn't ever get it to mark true.
Your mission music was all over the place. Between the menu music, action music, and victory music there were multiple musical styles ranging from heavy metal to royal fanfare. My personal preference and recommendation is to make sure all your music fits within a very similar style. I've used this site (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/) to find almost all of the music for BtA. It's free, and legal as long as you credit the music authors in your credits file.
I hope that wasn't too critical. I wrote it so as to help you learn more and not to discourage your from creating your campaign.
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Alright here's my feedback.
First up, good job. There are some things in here that I haven't even tried yet. The menu music was cool. Had a retro feel that I was really digging. The weapon effects were also pretty neat. Also, the little tidbit in the debrief peaked my interest into the story a bit. Nice job.
Thank you
Here's some specific issues I noticed with the modpack.
You've got several files in two different VPs (intro.ogg is one, and a lot of audio).
I think those were all in sound.vp
You've also got some MVPs models and maps in your modpack. Given that your mod requires MVPs 3.6.12, this isn't necessary unless you actually changed the POFs or textures.
Which ones are these?
If you are including model files, also include the cache files (data/cache/XXXX.bx).
Are these files generated automatically?
Also, your audio files. Some are in WAV and some in OGG. Some of them are also retail audio, which you don't need to carry in your mod. You should, however, convert all your audio to OGG.
Well I used music in ogg and sound effects in wav. Which ones were retail?
Your mod download includes an empty data folder, that's unnecessary.
So I can just leave the data folder out and it will still work?
You can also make use of the credits.tbl (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Credits.tbl) instead of a separate credits readme. In that same vein, use game_settings.tbl (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Game_settings.tbl) to set your default campaign.
Okay, I can do that
I was somewhat disappointed to see that you basically used the exact buttons from my mainhall tutorial. I recommend you try to create something new and different. Perhaps a button style that matches your mod's Shivan tones and styles?
I am not much of an artist and I was worried that if I tried to make buttons they would end up looking like something a 10 year old drew in MSPaint.
In your mod.ini, include a description and forum link to this thread.
Got it
And finally, your cb anims should probably be the same aspect ration across all of them. I recommend 660x300 (the sorta hi-res standard).
I used that for the two I made but the other one was taken from another mod.
For the missions...
Much of your briefing and message wording left a little to be desired. Are you a native english speaker? If not, it might be worth to have someone who is go over your text.
Examples of what was wrong?
Also, be sure to use something like emptymsg.wav for message sounds. It's just a beep so that players focused on action will be reminded to read the new message.
I used commnode.wav, as that is the sound of Shivan communication.
The Destroy Bombers directive never marked true. I couldn't ever get it to mark true.
Hmm. I will have to have a look at this.
Your mission music was all over the place. Between the menu music, action music, and victory music there were multiple musical styles ranging from heavy metal to royal fanfare. My personal preference and recommendation is to make sure all your music fits within a very similar style. I've used this site (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/) to find almost all of the music for BtA. It's free, and legal as long as you credit the music authors in your credits file.
Personally I liked the music choices I made. I think the fanfare works well for the victory music. And the metal song was kind of a gag, I am not really planning to use that kind of music again in the campaign, it just sort of fit the tone of the battle I thought.
I hope that wasn't too critical. I wrote it so as to help you learn more and not to discourage your from creating your campaign.
Thank you, it was very helpful. I am not discouraged.
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If you are including model files, also include the cache files (data/cache/XXXX.bx).
Are these files generated automatically?
Yes. Cache files are automatically generated by the game the first time you load that pof, if the correct setting is checked in the launcher (I don't have the launcher under my eyes so I can't check, but the setting's description should be pretty obvious). That means we are able to generate them as well the first time we play your mod, so it is not necessary to distribute them, but it's still better to include them with your mod since it's faster to DL them than to generate them.
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Okay, got it
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Here's some specific issues I noticed with the modpack.
You've got several files in two different VPs (intro.ogg is one, and a lot of audio).
I think those were all in sound.vp
No, you have them in BOTH sounds and visuals VPs.
You've also got some MVPs models and maps in your modpack. Given that your mod requires MVPs 3.6.12, this isn't necessary unless you actually changed the POFs or textures.
Which ones are these?
It should be pretty simple for you to open up the necessary VPs and make a list yourself.
Your mod download includes an empty data folder, that's unnecessary.
So I can just leave the data folder out and it will still work?
Yes
I was somewhat disappointed to see that you basically used the exact buttons from my mainhall tutorial. I recommend you try to create something new and different. Perhaps a button style that matches your mod's Shivan tones and styles?
I am not much of an artist and I was worried that if I tried to make buttons they would end up looking like something a 10 year old drew in MSPaint.
I am confident that anyone can come up with a button style, but it's your choice. My tutorial being the only one around about mainhalls, it will be increasingly obvious that you simply used the tutorial buttons.
And finally, your cb anims should probably be the same aspect ration across all of them. I recommend 660x300 (the sorta hi-res standard).
I used that for the two I made but the other one was taken from another mod.
I think you've got that backwards. Battleaxe is 330x300. Radar is 400x300. Warp is 660x300. If you aren't going to use 660x300, you should pick one resolution/aspect ratio and stick to that throughout.
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No, you have them in BOTH sounds and visuals VPs.
Huh. That must have been a mistake, I'll have to fix that.
It should be pretty simple for you to open up the necessary VPs and make a list yourself.
Well I would have to cross-reference each file in my vp with the retail vps... both the mediavps 3.6.12 and the retail vps. That might take a while.
Yes
Okay thank you.
I am confident that anyone can come up with a button style, but it's your choice. My tutorial being the only one around about mainhalls, it will be increasingly obvious that you simply used the tutorial buttons.
Well I did change the text color and tint them for being highlighted. Really I would find it hard to make my own buttons that looked good, I don't have any idea how to do that.
I think you've got that backwards. Battleaxe is 330x300. Radar is 400x300. Warp is 660x300. If you aren't going to use 660x300, you should pick one resolution/aspect ratio and stick to that throughout.
Oh sorry. I had heard that 660x300 was the best.
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It would take me the same amount of time to do the file cross referencing. It's your mod, you should do it.
660x300 is what I suggest. What I'm saying is that your 3 anims are all using 3 different resolutions. You should really consolidate that.
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I never told you to do it, you must have misinterpreted what I said.
The anims seem to be working fine the way they are but in the future I'll try to keep them at the same dimensions
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I agree with mjn.mixael's points, so I won't be repeating those.
Aside from that, I thought this was pretty good for a first attempt. I kinda liked the humour and I can appreciate how you went through the effort of removing the default fs intro and mainhall. It gives a pretty good first impression when you start up the mod.
Just make sure you use starfield.pof for the inmission background, the retail stars aren't looking so hot.
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Thank you, I will keep that in mind.
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Just made an update, I fixed a lot of the problems people were pointing out, as well as making some other changes (such as making the background better), etc. I also removed a lot of the redundant files (not sure I caught them all, though, but I cut the download by over 20 megs so I got a good amount of them).
However I won't be able to continue working on this campaign unless I can get my hands on some unreleased assets, and since Spoon seems to be ignoring my PMs ( :( ) I doubt I'll get them for quite a while.
(Though if you read this Spoon, I don't really need all of that stuff I asked you for, in fact I could do a lot with only those two ships I requested in my latest PM. If you don't want to give them to me, fine, but at least let me know that you don't).
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Maybe his PM box is full...
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Do messages just not go through if it's full?
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Precisely.
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Oh. Well will you download the updated version and tell me what you think please?
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(Though if you read this Spoon, I don't really need all of that stuff I asked you for, in fact I could do a lot with only those two ships I requested in my latest PM. If you don't want to give them to me, fine, but at least let me know that you don't).
I thought my last pm was quite clear...
Also, rather than putting up repeated updates to a single mission demo, I'd highly recommend finding one or two beta testers who you can throw updates at and then get their feedback.
Not to mention that planning your campaign around unreleased assets seem like a very unpractical thing to do...
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You sent me one PM telling me you weren't going to give me all of that stuff I asked for, so then I asked for just two ships... you still haven't gotten back to me on that.
I don't know where to find testers.
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You could ask for special testers in this thread, but I suppose that would just be crazy talk.
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Well until I get those assets I'm only going to have one mission... (really I just need two ships for the next one, though)
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Why don't you use two other ships. The user-made ships section of the wiki is crawling with ships.
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I need these two specific ships. Really if Spoon says no I have some other stuff I could work on instead, but I just want to hear if he is willing to let me use just those two ships or not.
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Sorry but no, all unreleased assets that I have are meant for WoD2 and at this time are not for usage in other projects.
What part of this was not clear in the first place?
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You just think you need those two specific ships. They can be substituted.
(seriously which ones are they...I can't think of anything that specific off the top of my head that's in WoD2...and I won't hear arguments for style as they won't even fit with regular FS ships all that well...)
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Sorry but no, all unreleased assets that I have are meant for WoD2 and at this time are not for usage in other projects.
What part of this was not clear in the first place?
Well I asked you for a whole lot of stuff (to be honest that was just kind of a ploy, I figured I ask you for something huge, you say no, then I make a smaller request and you're more likely to grant it - old Cardassian mind trick). Then I ask you for just the Celestial and Ascention and you never reply. If you don't want to give them to me, fine, just say so.
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I won't hear arguments for style as they won't even fit with regular FS ships all that well...)
Probably worth noting that this mod appears to be set in the WoD universe... I think - it's not quite clear.
I think this is misunderstanding:
@Legate Damar: When Spoon said he's not allowing access to all unreleased assets, he meant all of them (including the two you're after). You'll have to wait until WoD2 is released - there's no law that says you have to FRED mission 2 before mission 3, 4, or 5+ though, so you can keep yourself busy until then.
Also, seriously, you will find people much more understanding and helpful if you stop all the Cardassian stuff. It is starting to annoy people.
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Well he said it was an outrageous request to give all of his unreleased assets. I'd figure that just two ships wouldn't be so outrageous. But whatever. I have some things I can work on even without those ships.
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*old Cardassian mind trick
Sheldon :blah: ...
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Honestly, I can't think of any unreleased assets that can't be substituted for released stuff. What do you need, exactly? And not the specific ship - what role do you need filled in your campaign that can only be filled by one or two specific unreleased assets? I'm sure that people will be able to suggest alternatives.
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Honestly, I can't think of any unreleased assets that can't be substituted for released stuff. What do you need, exactly? And not the specific ship - what role do you need filled in your campaign that can only be filled by one or two specific unreleased assets? I'm sure that people will be able to suggest alternatives.
I can just wait for them... I have other aspects I can work on (modeling etc.)
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Being stubborn about things like this doesn't really pay off.
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Seriously, unless those WoD2 ships are completely irreplaceable and cannot have their role filled by any other ship out there, you don't need them.
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Seriously, unless those WoD2 ships are completely irreplaceable and cannot have their role filled by any other ship out there, you don't need them.
They are
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You don't even have the models. You could not possibly know that.
You don't know their turret counts, length, etc. No functional information. Thus completely replaceable.
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I have seen them in videos
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Be creative. Vasudans have a slightly similar style to CSA (curvy, sleek ships). You can find some that are both tilemapped and hi-poly. Aestival is released, with a nice green texture (or you could ask Spoon for a bunch of tileable, CSA style maps). Then, just reskin the Zods to look like CSA. TBH, when you take a closer look at those ships, their turret models are nothing unusual. They do have a certain distinctive style to them, but if you use them, people will just go "hey, WoD ships" instead of associating them with your mod. You have to use some models that aren't so strongly associated with one campaign (Stratcomm's Vasudans are a good idea), and give a distinctive, personalized touch to them. If you're good with PCS2, you can also move turrets around and replace them if you need to (adding shields is also easy, if that's what you want from WoD ships).
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I don't think Spoon is going to give me his textures
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'bout time you realize that. lets face it, no one is psychic.
besides, i don't think Spoon's been happy about his assets being used since his campaign got overhauled by some random Darth and turned into South Park (i wasn't there to see it).
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I don't think Spoon is going to give me his textures
Note, texture bases (what you should be asking for) shouldn't be that much of a problem (assuming he kept them, which isn't always the case). For Aestival at least, the "base" you can see when looking at a texture is a tileable pattern. The only problem are Aestival-specific bits painted upon it. If everything fails, you can also try to remove them yourself, but be wary that it tends to be a very tedious job.
Also note, this will still be pretty recognizable, so unless your campaign is WoD-realted, then you should consider making your own textures, or creatively repainting existing ones.
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I have some things I can work on...
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Nice attempt for a first mission. By releasing something you are starting to gain the respect of those in the community by showing that you are willing to give back.
Assets or lack thereof should never impede anyone from going forward with mission development. Earlier in the development of Inferno we used pre-existing placeholder ships to substitute for those not yet made. So I definitely encourage you to continue FREDding using placeholder ships while waiting for WoD2 to get released.
A fact of life: when someone says "no", drop it. Don't change the subject. Don't try to find loopholes. Just drop it. By doing this you are proving yourself to be a person of patience, integrity, and maturity.
I also agree that you should really consider dropping the Cardassian roleplay. Not only does it annoys people, but it also makes you seem immature and unreliable causing people to not take you seriously. You've toned it down since your arrival, and I encourage you to stop it completely.
R
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I dropped it a long time ago, but now people are trying to get me to drop just waiting, which is rather odd
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Hardly a long time, but I did notice you forgone this in recent posts. Much better.
Placeholders are a good idea (I'm using it myself), but only if you expect whatever you're waiting for to be released before you begin "serious" FREDing, or have very accurate placeholders (a case with Inferno, as it had a ton of lo-poly models to work with). Less of an issue with fighters (the "rigging" doesn't have to match physical layout), but with capships turret and subsystem positions, as well as general shape become important.
On the other hand, if you'll be waiting for models, you may end up with your mod suspended ad kalendas Graecas. I had this problem, I've started my mod just when I joined, and I picked it up again about a month ago (still not having all the models I originally wanted, but with enough skill to replace them).
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Like I said I have several things I can work on without requiring the models. But I won't be able to release it until I get them.
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I'm reasonably sure that there is some model, somewhere, that can replace Spoon's.
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From a story perspective?
Not really.
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So, try FREDing without them, and simply wait for WoD2 to be released. In the meantime, refine and test your missions, perhaps launch a closed beta for them (you can add the missing ones later). You can't do much to speed up WoD2's release (most of the assets are done), but I guess that you could get accepted into beta if you promise not to steal ships before it's out. If the beta goes smoothly, the release will come pretty quickly. Not to mention testing can keep you occupied, and lets you learn a lot about mission design. Be assured, both Axem and Spoon are working on FREDing for WoD2. It's not going too fast, but the missions will be of highest quality.
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I already said I am still working on things I can do without the ships.
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From a story perspective?
Not really.
The story is entirely under your control, it requires nothing. The story is a tool to convey a message, and (specific to games) an excuse to provide a context to the gameplay. There's nothing sacred about it.
If you believe that it isn't under your control and demands specific things, then you're admitting you're an incompetent writer that only knows how to tell the story in one way; or a very stubborn one that only has one story to tell.
Not saying you should abandon the story you want to tell, but to be open to possible alternative ways of writing it.
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I know what I'm doing
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Update: I've started a working on a side project related to this campaign... it's just one mission but will require more modding and doing things with FRED I haven't tried yet... also looking for some images on other websites to fit what I have in mind.
However the best part is that it can all be done with publicly available assets. So watch this thread... (might be a while though)
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By request of Axem I have updated the expired download link in the OP. I think this is the fixed version but if not tell me.