[terran_emperor]

When i say the Subspace Drive is destroyed, i mean it can't be repaired meaning the ship has to limp to wherever it's going. My point is that in real-life, the ships Normal Space speeds would be much faster than they are in-game

[jdjtcagle]

Is he that annoying paper clip

Yep, although he is a changeling and can take many forms, his most common is a paper clip, hence his name.


Anyway, the GTVA uses subspace because there really isn't anything better. With subspace it doesn't really matter how fast capships are since they can jump anywhere in the system instantly.

How do they navigate if it's instant?

[Snail]

When i say the Subspace Drive is destroyed, i mean it can't be repaired meaning the ship has to limp to wherever it's going. My point is that in real-life, the ships Normal Space speeds would be much faster than they are in-game

Repaired? Build or get a new one. Every ship might have a backup one.

[karajorma]

I suspect they'd bring the bits to the ship rather than the other way round.

Besides the Subspace drive and the normal drive seem to be linked together in most missions. My bet is that a ship which can't use subspace can't move at all.

[terran_emperor]

Snail
what i mean is that the entire subspace drive system is wrecked beyond repair and it can only be replaced during a long refit in drydock  Field replacements/repairs can't be done

Karajorma
That again is for playability. Like my point about the speed, in RL Disabling one, wouldnt mean disableing the other

[Snail]

Snail
what i mean is that the entire subspace drive system is wrecked beyond repair and it can only be replaced during a long refit in drydock  Field replacements/repairs can't be done

Well then it would be towed away by another ship, I would guess.

[terran_emperor]

My whole point is this.

*In Real-life the ships travel a lot faster than they do the game.
Ie a trip to the moon in Normal space for a destroyer would only take about a day in real-life, where as in the game  to travel that same distance would take most of a year (1/2 to 3/4) as i worked out.

*Therefore if the Ship's subspace drive is damaged beyond repair - that rules out field replacements as well - but it's normal space engines are still functioning, then the ship can "walk home" - travel back the old fashioned way. And as the ships travel faster, the trip only takes a few weeks/months as opposed to years.

Besides the way i understand it. The Subspace drive only opens the portal, the is then pulled in by the forces.

Think of it like this: 
You = Ship [Note -you'd be wearing a space suit  to hole-pokers 
Your Fist = subspace drive
Interior of space station = Normal Space
Window to ouside of space station = Barrier between SS & NS
Space outside spacestation = Subspace

Your are on a space station          =   Ship in normal Space

You punch through and shatter the Window with the outside view = Subspace Drive Puching through the barrier between SS & NS - portal opens

You are ejected from the spacestation by the Explosive decompression = ship is drawn through by the tidal forces

You are floating outside the spacestation = Ship in Subspace

The Window self-repairs behind you stopping others from following = Barrier between SS & NS self-repairs and no-one drawn in - portal closes, no-one else can use it

[Note if the ship is disabled, that's you getting caught on somthing preventing you from being ejected. Maybe your boots are magnetic or something or you are caught on the window frame]

Jumping back to Subspace = You puching through an underwater window from the exterior - the water pressure carries you inside

[karajorma]

Seems more likely they'd have a couple of large bolt on engines for such occurrences. If GTVA ships can travel faster there are numerous situations in which they would have. 

[terran_emperor]

let me make this Clear. THe point that Im trying to make is what the Ships would be like in REAL-LIFE.

We all know how the ships are in the Games. But I'm trying to point out that if the Ships were real, then the point i've been trying to explain ad nausium would Actually occur

Prehaps this will clear things up

GAME - all due to playability issues
Capital Ships travel rediculously slow
No Momentum/Inertia - The Glide ability in some Mods doesnt count. I'm talking proper physics
Disabling Subspace Drives Disables the Main Engines stranding the ship until a field repair can be effected. This is not always possible. Unless it is scripted to be unable to jump. At the in game speed, it takes months just to reach the moon. Travelling back halfway from Mars (at it's closest point to Earth) would take Years

REAL-LIFE
Capital Ships would travel faster. I'm talking faster than the Apollo Space craft travelled > They reached the moon in 3 days usin Inertia and Course-Corrections. In RL, FS Caps would reach the moon in about a day. The smaller ones would reach it faster.

There would be momentum/Inertia and all that other physics junk
Disabling Subspace Drive doesn't disable main Engines. If the SSDrive is damaged beyond repair, then the ship can still fly home in descent amount of time. If able to reach the moon in a day, Then traveling back halfway from Mars (at it's Closest point to Earth) would only take a matter of months in comparison

 

[Snail]

That's all non-canon, however you put it.

[terran_emperor]

Yes I know its non-canon. Untill I actually create these ships in real-life

Okay getting back to the point of the topic.

GTVA can only travel between star systems using subspace. Otherwise we're talking missions that last millenia. and that's stupid

For travelling within a star system. They are not dependant on Subspace to travel. SS travel cuts down on the time-factor. But the trip can still be made in Normal Space - it just takes longer - months instead of hours/minutes. It's still a somewhat viable option.

I do have some grumblings though - but a believe I have argued them enough. Snail and Karajorma seem to be annoyed with me. See my previous posts in this topic.

[Snail]

Snail and Karajorma seem to be annoyed with me. See my previous posts in this topic.

No, no, I'm not annoyed, I only find it unfeasible that a ship should have to travel astronomical distances on their normal engines. I think that it would almost certainly be towed away by a subspace-capable ship or something.

[terran_emperor]

Unfeesable? that's what our current level of Tech is at.

Besides, how would somthing like the colossum be towed? Dozens of cronos' with fishing lines behind them? 

[Snail]

Unfeesable? that's what our current level of Tech is at.

If ships could move that fast, then they'd move that fast during combat.

Besides, how would somthing like the colossum be towed? Dozens of cronos' with fishing lines behind them? 

A cruiser?

[terran_emperor]

I was refering to our current level of space flight. You know, Voyager 1&2, The Pioneer series, Spaceshuttle (even if it is an out-of-date hunk of junk). Anyway, i never said that combat would be held at top-speeds...Maybe Capship chases, ie An orion chasing down a Hades through Sol...But it would be easier to aim and manouver at lower speeds. The Top-Speed would only be used for large distance travels, when subspace cant be used. Or when its a waste of energy, like jumping from Earth to the Moon.

If ships could move that fast, then they'd move that fast during combat.

Besides, how would somthing like the colossum be towed? Dozens of cronos' with fishing lines behind them? 

A cruiser?

I'm having flashes of that scene from Babylon 5: Thirdspace, Where the TS jumpgate is being towed out of hyperspace, by a bunch of shuttles, White Stars and the entire garrison of Starfuries

[Snail]

Okay then.

I think it's rather silly (-adj absurd, ridiculous, irrational • weak minded or lacking good sense) that someone would rather take months or weeks to go somewhere rather than just use subspace. In addition to that, we've never seen this happen, or heard anything alluding to this in the entire game. This leads me to believe that subspace is the main traveling technology, and that this "theoretical high-velocity Newtonian physics engine" is complete... wait for it...

POPPYCOCK!

[Dark Hunter]

I agree with Snail here. Why why why WHY would they make a higher speed realspace drive when they don't have any use for it? If you want to compare FS movement to something else, then subspace jumps are the "main" drive, and realspace drives are equivalent to "maneuvering thrusters".

As for our own ships (that is, us in real-life) being able to move faster than the FS ships, perhaps they abandoned the sort of engine we use now because it was highly inefficient or something? Sure, the drives they use now may be slower, but as already stated they have no need to move faster in realspace, so why bother?

[terran_emperor]

Look. In my opinion, Subspace is used mostly because yes its faster. However, they still keep the ships prepared with good old-fashioned Rockets as backup.

Relying wholey on Subspace is putting all you're eggs in one basket. All one needs to do is invent a weapon that disrupts subspace enought that it cant be used and you guys are in a motorboat up a stagnant creek and the engine has fallen off and no paddle.

Having both SS and Newtonian Drives means you have both the engine and a paddle. So if you loose the engine you can still row to shore

Besides, Snail, They may not say it happens, but they don't say it doesnt happen.

Not confirming some thing doesnt make it false
Not denying it doesnt make it true,

I will go on believing in my oppinion, Thank you very much

[Retsof]

If they are using ion drive technology, it would take a phenomenal amount of time to accelerate to system-spanning speeds.  They probably let out a large burst to accelerate the ship to in-game speed, but then only maintain their speed.

[WMCoolmon]

If you had our current level of weaponry tech, you could waste any ship in Freespace. Sure, they can withstand multiple impacts from antimatter warheads, but their turrets and fighters would be quickly wiped out by precision-targeted missiles. If they abandoned our current drives because they're inefficient, they made a really poor choice

We do know that the GTVA uses "fusion drives" for its realspace maneuvering, at least on the Hecate class of ships.

I do agree that the GTVA would tow a ship into subspace if its drives were wrecked. But I think if, for whatever reason, the GTVA did not tow the ship it would be able to get back to a planet in a matter of days or weeks. I view the in-game physics as more of a symbolic representation of FS physics rather than an absolutely accurate simulation of those physics.

I don't think that :V: literally meant to suggest that no spacecraft in the galaxy could go faster than a 1950s prop plane.

Most likely that would be a last-ditch option due to the relativistic effects of traveling at a significant portion of the speed of light. This, IMHO, is why the GTVA makes such an extensive use of subspace. Without it, it would essentially be impossible to operate at the level of commerce and interstellar interaction that the GTVA does.