[--Steve-O--]

 
children = no worrys
gotcha!

[ARSPR]

does the build you downloaded read RC2a or RC2 in the title? it's possible that i may not have uploaded the fix (built debug instead of release)

Please check the mantis report. I have RC2a in the title...

[Bobboau]

I just uploaded a new build, it doesn't have the more informative error messeges, but it might have the bbox issue resolved. we made a bit of a design change about some header stuff, and the short story is radius and bbox values are now read only, because it will recalculate them on POF save, and the way I'm doing it involves useing the raw BSP data at the last possible second, so if the model looks right the bbox and radius should be right, but give it a shot, make sure colision detection still works and all that.

[Koth]

I know it probably has nothing to do with PCS2, but when the FSOpen debug build cried death and destruction whenever I tried to load a specific model I figured something must be wrong. So I opened up this model in PCS2 and tried to save again as pof. and PCS2 immediately crashed. I'm no modeler, could anybody take a look at it? 

EDIT: Ugh, this thing is a giant fly-through-face. Collision detection seems to be totally garbled with this model.

[attachment deleted by ninja]

[ARSPR]

I just uploaded a new build, it doesn't have the more informative error messeges, but it might have the bbox issue resolved. we made a bit of a design change about some header stuff, and the short story is radius and bbox values are now read only, because it will recalculate them on POF save, and the way I'm doing it involves useing the raw BSP data at the last possible second, so if the model looks right the bbox and radius should be right, but give it a shot, make sure colision detection still works and all that.

Info updated in Mantis 49.

Basically your new build:

• Still changes the boundary box of the header.
• There are a lot of warnings about inverted boundary boxes in SUBMODELS
• BUT the model warning has dissapeared.

[Wanderer]

Yeah.. in the model the 'non complaining' BBox seems to be of type

Code: [Select]

BBox Min: x-min, y-min, z-min
BBox Max: x-max, y-max. z-max
While submodels do not seem to complain if they are of type 

Code: [Select]

BBox Min: x-max, y-min, z-min
BBox Max: x-min, y-max. z-max
In the complaining comm node those were for some reason apparently swapped...

[Kazan]

yeah.. that's just a coordinate space problem we have to track down

[Zacam]

So, what causes the file size increase when a model is loaded and then immediately saved?

EX: Cargo03. When correcting the inertia issues on it, it practically doubled in size when save in PCS2. I used ModelView32 to correct it. I'm not complaining, per se, but I'd like to know (if you would, please) where and/or what is causing for additional data to the model.

[Kazan]

So, what causes the file size increase when a model is loaded and then immediately saved?

pcs2's bsp compilers produces better collision meshes, as well as having SLDC (Shield collision data) - this makes bigger models.

you should NOT EVER use modelview's POF editing capabilities... EVER

[Goober5000]

you should NOT EVER use modelview's POF editing capabilities... EVER

O rly?

It's served the community pretty well ever since it was first introduced ~8 years ago...

[Zacam]

Hmm. Well, I haven't seen any benefits yet that encourages one over the other.

Suppose I'll just hex-edit Inerta values for models lacking them, now that I know where they are.

Can you support with a definitive statement or example why one should "NOT EVER" (which I almost read as NOT EV4R) use ModelView32?

[Topgun]

it can give bad collision detection.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Never use modview to convert from COB to POF. With anything more complex than a primitive shape it will almost certainly screw up collision detection one way or the other. That said, the only reason not to use it for POF editing is if your model has glowpoints - because modview doesn't recognise them, it just strips the chunk off upon re-saving.

Other than that it does absolutely nothing to damage the stability of the model.

However, PCS2 now does almost everything modview did and a whole lot more besides, so you really should be using that instead and submitting bug reports if you find problems.

[Kazan]

modelview will also strip SLDC which is a new chunk that PCS2 introduces

his issue was that PCS2 makes models that are larger - that's not a bug

as for why one should NEVER use modelview for editing - already been stated:
Trashes collision data
Trashes GLOW
Trashes SLDC

Really once PCS2 is out nobody should even have modelview installed - it's flat out obsolete and Bob and I have been trying to make sure PCS2 does everything it does on top of everything else so we can finally put it in the grave.

The PCS2 NSIS installer register's PCS2 as the default program to open POFs

[chief1983]

Don't forget the massive memory leak that can occasionally corrupt the open pof upon the eventual crash of the application.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Err, ok that one I've never seen or heard about. I knew about the memory leak that got much worse on complex models, but that only ever caused me to restart the app every once in a while. It never crashed for me and certainly never corrupted a POF.

In nearly everything it could do, modview was the preferred POF editing tool for years and it did it well.

[Kazan]

the internals of modelview were always a lot more hackish than PCS1 - where as PCS1's interface was hackish because A) i suck at writing UIs B) i used Win32 API

PCS2 is good inside and out thanks to the help from Bob

[chief1983]

Anytime I went into POF editor on Modelview, if the memory leak _had_ been somewhat slow before, it grew massive as soon as I started doing anything.  Just open up taskman sometime and watch what happens.  Rotate a model, highlight certain fields, just click around, and you can just see the memory going up and up and up.  It usually crashed for me sometime after eclipsing 100MB of ram.  On a larger model that happens rather quickly, especially while editing.  I was using it one day just to line up various pof elements, and then copy the numbers into PCS1, and all of a sudden, it crashed, and the file had been corrupted and I couldn't reopen it with Modelview.  I forget if having a copy opened in PCS helped me there or not.

[blowfish]

This POF generated with PCS2 causes the game to crash as well as PCS2 when I try to reopen it.  Could be something I did though.

[chief1983]

It opened just fine in Bob's sig build from 1/21.