[Stealth]

Split From http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,49686.0.html - Karajorma

i love how almost every thread here 'evolves' (<== OMFG TEH PUN!!!11) into an evolution/religion/both debate.

first you've got Bubba-OUE over there trying to make a point in his first post on the thread, but with like 5 spelling and grammatical errors (ahh the irony), immediately taking the thread off-topic.

Then I think, it's ok, after a few minutes/hours, an administrator/moderator will come in and get the thread back on topic again.  And then karajorma-the-hero comes in, not to take the thread back on-topic, oh no, but to "take exception to that comment@!1112oneoneoeoenoenoN", and to join the debate.

great example you're setting.
it's reasons like this among others (like moving the most popular forum on the site down to the near bottom of the page, trying to split it into 3 or 4 forums, etc.) that made this place lose 75% of its active community.

[Stealth]

I think they're currently two, fairly civil debates going on. One of which was always about religion right from the start. So I don't know what you're complaining about.
there are*

no, i don't think this had anything to do with religion from the start... or evolution... you helped it get there though

And if the 75% who are leaving were only interested in jawing on hard light then how are they active?
this makes no sense. try re-reading what i wrote, and then respond.

[karajorma]

I think they're currently two, fairly civil debates going on. One of which was always about religion right from the start. So I don't know what you're complaining about.
there are*

no, i don't think this had anything to do with religion from the start... or evolution... you helped it get there though

There are currently a grand total of two active threads on Hard Light about religion and one of them was about religion right from the start. Since this one wasn't about religion right from the start did it even occur to you think I might have meant the other one?

And if the 75% who are leaving were only interested in jawing on hard light then how are they active?
this makes no sense. try re-reading what i wrote, and then respond.

How are you classifying people who only come here to as active? Active doing what? What are they doing that is Freespace related? This is primarily a Freespace board not a social club. The raison d'etre for this board is for Freespace related stuff. The majority of the money donated to the board was donated for the purpose of supporting either FS2 or one of the TCs.

Hard Light is NOT the primary purpose of HLP. Pretty much every board with a primary focus sticks the off-topic at the bottom. If someone wants to leave just because of forum placement then their desire to stay here was pretty low. On the other hand if they want to chat that's fine but when newbies come to this board what they want if Freespace-related stuff. So that's what deserves pride of place.

And for someone complaining about dragging a thread off-topic you're doing a pretty good job of it yourself. Not only are you completely off-topic but you're attempting to revive a debate which was over and done with months ago. And not even doing that in the correct place for it.  Which is why I'm going to split and move this part to it's own topic and put it in the correct forum. If you want proper moderation of topics and feel that I haven't done a good enough job of re-railing threads then I'm going to start doing a better job of it right here.

[Stealth]

two things (i skimmed over your 3 paragraphs... thanks for typing a book...)

1) Hard light may have not been the primary purpose of HLP, but it sure as hell kept it alive.  you start making forum changes, moving forums around, splitting them, etc. and 75% of the active members leave (that's what i was referring to, btw)
2) good job with your moderating.  next time don't go off-topic in a thread in the first place, then maybe this won't be necessary

[redsniper]

all this crap started from a typo on the first page...

[Stealth]

no, it started when this thread went off-topic.

[redsniper]

yeah, because someone said something about a 'proton evolving' which doesn't make much sense, which led to discussion of people evolving, which, of course, led to a massive religious debate because everything on HLP eventually does.

[Goober5000]

(i skimmed over your 3 paragraphs... thanks for typing a book...)

Karajorma's post is far from a book.  It's an appropriate length, not excessively long.  And if I may say so, posting while ignoring what the other side has to say is effectively spouting noise.  I'd say it automatically forfeits you the argument.

1) Hard light may have not been the primary purpose of HLP, but it sure as hell kept it alive.  you start making forum changes, moving forums around, splitting them, etc. and 75% of the active members leave (that's what i was referring to, btw)

Again, this depends on your definition of "active".  People who post a lot but don't contribute anything don't meet the administration's definition.  If they want to leave, that's their choice and we wish them well, but they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking the board will suffer in their absence.  The lifeblood of HLP is content, not postcount.

And if I may say so, the new forum arrangement has helped HLP to thrive.  We have a lot of new forum members, most of whom are interested in modding and fredding, and many of which have already begun producing content.  Just look through the highlights, present and past.  Darius's campaign is top-notch all around, putting him in the same league as Blaise Russel and Ransom Arceihn.  0rph3u5's campaigns may not be as high quality, but they've got excellent plots and quite a few decent missions.

[Knight Templar]

lol, did you just say that some of the new content isn't great, but at least it's new?

And Mr. Flash is right - the level of moderation in this community compared to it's relatively small size and the slow, yet inevitable rate at which the original focus of the community (freespace) is decaying... is downright ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if squabbling about BBC news and politics and Mohammed isn't what the place is for, it's the only thing keeping the majority of the people together, as a community. If you want your community to survive, you have to let them interact freely. Given the general age of most the fans here, they don't have time to solely interact with the game and the people second, it's probably not what they're here for anyway. I've been saying this for years, but I just simply get ignored and things don't change.

gg guys. 

[Knight Templar]

p.s. the scale model thing was kind of neat. 11 miles is a lot of internet.

[karajorma]

lol, did you just say that some of the new content isn't great, but at least it's new?

I don't know how you managed to read that. He merely said that 0rph3u5 hasn't quite reached the quality of Blaise Russel and Ransom Arceihn yet.

And Mr. Flash is right - the level of moderation in this community compared to it's relatively small size and the slow, yet inevitable rate at which the original focus of the community (freespace) is decaying... is downright ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if squabbling about BBC news and politics and Mohammed isn't what the place is for, it's the only thing keeping the majority of the people together, as a community. If you want your community to survive, you have to let them interact freely. Given the general age of most the fans here, they don't have time to solely interact with the game and the people second, it's probably not what they're here for anyway. I've been saying this for years, but I just simply get ignored and things don't change.

Stealth's post was in response to a lack of moderation. He felt there should have been more re-railing of a topic and more attempts to try to force people not to talk about religion. So it seems like you've backed the wrong horse there KT. I was the one saying that people should be able to discuss religion if they wanted to.

My comment about the value of people who aren't actively doing anything other than talking was in response to his claim that people were leaving because they were annoyed by Hard Light being moved to the bottom of the forums rather than the top. My position on that has always been that anyone who would leave because they can't understand how to use a scrollbar is no great loss.

[jr2]

I can only say to ppl who left because Hard Light was moved to the bottom of the page: "Wusses!".

I mean, c'mon... I could even understand a little of their point, but it is up to the administration how things are run.  The people that left had been raising a whole lot of ruckus, just because they couldn't have their off-topic and (some of them) controversial / offensive posts at the top of the forum, in the public display.  And, yes, something did need to be done.  Don't give me any BS about having to scroll to the bottom: I have two words for you (well, 3 if you promise not to take it personal): "Press END, newb!"  You do realize that I avoided the Hard Light board like the plague before they started cleaning up shop, as flamewars are not the reason that I'm here. 

Sorry.  Just had to get that off my chest, after it was so nicely put back on there. 

[vyper]

as flamewars are not the reason that I'm here

So why are you on the interwebs?

[Koth]

''For Great Justice''. No seriously thank you jr2 that is exactly my line of thinking.

[jr2]

as flamewars are not the reason that I'm here

So why are you on the interwebs?

A beacon of sanity in a sea of n00bs... Alright, alright, I'm kidding.   
 -If you find yourself tempted to respond to that with something other than a joke, then perhaps you need a good cup of cold water to wake you up. 

''For Great Justice''. No seriously thank you jr2 that is exactly my line of thinking.

[vyper]

* vyper blinks