[Flipside]

When it gets to the point where NGTM1R can accuse me of manipulation, I tell him not to get involved in a conversation about manipulation because he has hands that are far from clean, and then I get a warning for 'apparently' telling him not to get involved in the entire thread, I know when I'm not wanted.

Please remove my user name from the user list, I'm done here, and I'm tired of coming back in the hope things have changed, only to find out they have not.

[Scotty]

The reason you got a warning was this post:

So you don't like people suggesting things to you either? Why doesn't that surprise me? I'm not part of the Mods so you can't even use your 'conspiracy theory' rubbish to try and manipulate things either now, can you?

The whole reason I quit as a Mod, as you are well aware, was because I was tired of trying to find the middle road between people who thought that whenever the Forum didn't bow to their wishes, that it was all some kind of conspiracy theory against them, I put up with that crap with you for over a year and ended up quitting because I was sick and tired of you misquoting facts and quote mining purely for the sake of hurling abuse...

Let me give you an example :

There was a somewhat heated discussion about Modified Newtonian Dynamics going on some time ago, I posted a response which read :

It's all theory, that's what I'm saying. The real risk here is putting the cart before the horse, the worst step science could take would be to assume that because something doesn't match what we think is true, it must, therefore, be untrue.

As I said before, there's work to do, but if you look back 15 years on the Dark Matter model, and you'd be in a similar situation, it's only through years of adjustment that we've defined a model of the Universe based on Dark Matter theory, not the opposite, if MOND had been thought of first, I wonder if the position would be reversed, and we'd be discussing that fact that Dark Matter can't be right, because it doesn't produce the same numbers as MOND.

MOND has had, possibly, a decade to produce results, I've been hearing about Dark Matter for about 3 decades, and for a lot of that, that theory produced no results either, so I'd be inclined to leave things just a little longer before writing it off.

Edit : Look at it this way, we spent a long time believing the Sun went round the Earth, we had maths that worked for that model, we even calculated a complex system for the regression of planets. The maths fitted, the model fitted, there was only one minute flaw, the entire model was based on a false premise.

Edit 2 : And even wierder is that I could take those incorrect calculations, based on an incorrect model and get correct answers from them with regards to where the Sun is going to rise etc.

Your highly thought out, well structured response to this was :

It's all theory, that's what I'm saying.

Twenty demerits for using an argument straight out of a creationist playbook.

By this stage, this was an ongoing problem with you, out-of-context quote mining and idiotic behaviour, and it was starting to get to me, as it would with anyone. So before you start accusing me of being manipulative to you, maybe you should ask yourself why you wrote to Admin claiming that if they didn't do what you wanted, you would assume it was just 'evidence' of the perceived corruption you believed the Moderators were indulging in.

You're sitting in a glass-house and throwing stones, so I'd, once again, suggest that you think very hard before making claims about manipulation.

That post is manipulative as **** and is exactly what you asked people to point out earlier in the thread.  If you can't handle NGTM-1R playing the pot to your kettle, I suggest not inviting the comparison to yourself.  This one is your own fault, don't blame him for it.

[flipsidetemp]

Utter bull****.

Was I the one who initiated the discussion about whether I had manipulated NGTM1R or not or was he? It was him. I informed him that he should stay away from that discussion, and note I used the word discussion directly in response to the post he made about me, in other words, the discussion he seemed intent on initiating, and even re-iterated that in the post you quoted...

so I'd, once again, suggest that you think very hard before making claims about manipulation.

.

What you are effectively telling me is that I am not allowed to either defend myself, or tell someone not to get involved in an argument that neither of us want to have.

Once again.

Bull****.

[Scotty]

I have had similar arguments with you about similar subjects. You can come up with an assumption about a person's motivations and make constant efforts to guide them into saying something that you can use to prove their 'true' hidden motivations that you have decided on

Do you have an example of that, because I'm certainly not aware of doing that, and if I do, then I'd like to see in what way so I can be aware of when I am doing it.

You asked.  You were made aware.  You are still doing it.  This line of discussion (indeed, this trend of anger at that particular topic) started long before NGTM-1R got involved.  NGTM-1R made a claim about manipulation that I wholeheartedly agree with, based particularly on:

So you don't like people suggesting things to you either? Why doesn't that surprise me? I'm not part of the Mods so you can't even use your 'conspiracy theory' rubbish to try and manipulate things either now, can you?

The whole reason I quit as a Mod, as you are well aware, was because I was tired of trying to find the middle road between people who thought that whenever the Forum didn't bow to their wishes, that it was all some kind of conspiracy theory against them, I put up with that crap with you for over a year and ended up quitting because I was sick and tired of you misquoting facts and quote mining purely for the sake of hurling abuse...

Alluding to a conspiracy theory to discredit; appeal to sympathy based on abdication of mod powers; and not quoted for brevity digging up a five year old post to undermine NGTM-1R's current position in such a way that didn't even apply to what he was suggesting.

I say again: that post was manipulative as ****, and if you're upset about being called on it I have no sympathy.

[flipsidetemp]

You know what, forget it, if someone can jump in, open an old wound, insist we discuss it despite my suggestions that we stay the hell away from it, accuse me of being the manipulative one in that event, and then when I document my defense, regardless of its age, regardless of its nature, I'm accused of being manipulative...

Things happened there that I feel very strongly about, and an accusation of 'manipulation' in that particular event was rubbing salt into a wound, all things considered, but if someone is going to initiate a conversation about an argument that was 5 years old, and, worse still, accuse me of being manipulative over it, then I'm going to have to post 5-Year old defence of it and how it felt to be in that situation.

He couldn't let it lie, and he did it in such a way that he knew would intimidate me, because he knew full well that, to my mind, the opposite was true, it wasn't important, however, which one of us was right or wrong, though feel free to continue choosing me. I was actually starting to forget about it, and the funny thing is, if he'd bought it up in just about any other manner than he chose to, we probably could have talked it out. Funny that...

But, you know what, never mind.