Author Topic: Shivans, Beams and The Great War.  (Read 23471 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
What if the communication went smoothly, and the Shivans acknowledged Bosch's ceasefire and sent transports to take them...i don't know...to the land of spells and faries. Now, my line of thought is that when the Shivans came aboard, even though the crew knew they were not hostile, someone flipped out (meeting a hoard of insectoid-cybernetic-xenocidal-arachnoid-demon aliens wearing Red out of season would do that to you) and fired on them, a firefight ensues, many die - but Bosch is still taken away...a perfectly logical conclusion but a completely different angle - while there's no outward proof, neither is there any to support Miscommunication between Bosch and the friendly Shivans...

 
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Well I don't think the normal crew even knew what was going on and so they opened fire. I rekon you could be right, maybe Bosch said to em we are letting Shivans aboard don't fire, but guezz if I was on that crew and had no idea of ETAK I probably woulda gone nuts and fire on em too, like I ain't just letting Shivans walk on board they'll kill us all kinda thinking. Since ETAK was classified to Bosches command crew. Which is why the alliance had so much trouble finding out what it was to begin with and thought it was a WOMD it could explain it.

 
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
What says they do?


Um.... common sense?
Sig censored by people with no sense of humor

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Quote
Originally posted by DarthWang
Um.... common sense?

So you use common sense assuming their brains work the same as ours. Maybe they don't concern themselves with such things, for religious reasons or because they don't just think that way. You cannot know.

That goes for all of you. This is a alien species. Maybe the fact that Bosch talked to them was something like you seeing a man with six pairs of wings, ten pairs of hands, pig eyes, TV in his mouth, snakes in his ears and major problems with stomach ache.

Maybe something like other race talking to them was so unheard of they got scared ****less.

Maybe hearing some other being talk to them was so shocking that the ones hearing it simply couldn't comprehend it and dropped dead.

Maybe they thought that it means they have to get close and personal before they kill them pesky humies.

Maybe this post has no point at all.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
It's equally as dangerous to assume the Shivans even feel fear, though.

 

Offline Boomer

  • 28
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
And it's just as dangerous to assume that they don't.

In fact, evolution to sentience is often driven by fear.  That organism that fears the giant predator capable of tearing it to shreds typically will live longer than one that doesn't, and that can be attributed to be fact.  What makes the difference is whether the Shivans evolved naturally or not.  If they did evolve naturally, then, (if the origin discussed in the Shivan Manifesto is accepted) it wouldn't be unwise to think that the Shivans greatly feared the travelers from normal space and avoided them at all costs.  Once the species had lived long enough to achieve sentience, the fear would have spawned other emotions such as anger toward these invaders and a desire to stop the intrusion.  When the Shivans finally became capable of communicating their intentions, they would have grown angry at the arrogance of the intruding species and wiped them out.  Soon, the Shivans began to see other species enter subspace, and began to treat these new invaders the same way as they did the first species to enter subspace, completely annihilating them.

This is a perfectly logical argument IMO.  It has it's flaws and feel free to point them out, but I feel that it is just as plausible as most of the other theories put forth.
Viva la UBERBOMB!

"I have no gods, only questions." -Me

A man once came to me and asked me to express a profound thought.  I told him.....<Static>...

Look on the bright side, it looks absolutely nothing like a penis.-Turambar

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
This of course assumes that individual Shivans are sentient. Which I personally doubt. They are capable of fear, collectively, but collectively there's nothing really that scary to them.

Mefustae essentially recreated my own theory about the combat aboard the Iceni.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Here's my take on it:

The Shivans saw the GTA and PVN and said "Oh look, people to kill!" After seeing how easily they took out the Ross 128 station, they probably figured that we weren't much of a threat, and therefor, found no reason to send in the more advanced ships that were armed with beams (in other words, these ships the GTA/PVN encountered were much older models). However, when the GTA/PVN took out the Lucifer, the Shivans said "Holy ****! I think we need some heavier weapons." Thus, they sent in the Sath in FS2.

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Welcome back InfernoGod!
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Hey, thanks. (Somebody noticed I disappeared.)
Didn't think anybody noticed me here :p - either that or they all hated me, lol. Sorry, OT.
Another thought I had on the Shivans was that maybe the Lucifer fleet had been long detached from the main body of the Shivan fleet. (i.e. Lucifer found the GTA/PVN, notified the main body of the Shivan forces, who were off somewhere). Then, the Lucifer didn't wait for the main forces and decided to engage. Meanwhile, the fleet arrived a few years later, and well, you get the point. Kind of "Lucy=scout" theory. I think my first one is better though.

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
I'm pretty sure the Lucifer was in a separate fleet, and that the much-mentioned scouting wave was just a bunch of fighters downed by some NTF pilots.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline Carl

  • Render artist
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Quote
Originally posted by Mefustae
while there's no outward proof, neither is there any to support Miscommunication between Bosch and the friendly Shivans...


Miscommunication between species is a theme in Freespace. It started the 14 year war. It would be a neat plot thingy to have it be the reason for the great war also.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline brozozo

  • Used to be d3r3k.
  • 27
    • MySpace
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
I just read the entire thread. Wow. My eyes hurt. Partly from all the bad grammar. But, Interesting ideas and theories nonetheless.

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
Miscommunication between species is a theme in Freespace. It started the 14 year war. It would be a neat plot thingy to have it be the reason for the great war also.


...What i'm saying is that, while i'll agree Miscommunication has been an ongoing theme in the Freespace-iverse, there's no outward evidence given to support the theory that there was inherrant miscommunication between Bosch and the Shivans...

...Heck, the fact that the Shivans met up with Bosch - meaning that they listened and at least held a rudementary understanding of what Bosch was trying to get across - supports the idea that there was no miscommunication at all...

...The only hostilities between Bosch and the Shivans are seen when you arrive at their rendevous (sp?), which i believe suggests that something went wrong when they met in person - such as someone getting antsy and popping off a few rounds when the Shivans came aboard - and not before that...

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
There's no evidence to say that there wasn't though. It's yet another area that is completely open to interpretation.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
For all we know, Bosch could have been saying "I like cheese and cows have cactus-like toes." or some other random gibberish/sentences. They could  have just been curious and said "Look- they talk. They don't make sense, but they talk." and took them and ate their headz.

 

Offline FSW

  • 27
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Perhaps ripping your henchmen to shreds is just the Shivan way of saying 'hello'...


 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
Quote
Originally posted by InfernoGod
For all we know, Bosch could have been saying "I like cheese and cows have cactus-like toes." or some other random gibberish/sentences. They could  have just been curious and said "Look- they talk. They don't make sense, but they talk." and took them and ate their headz.


Considering that they managed to accurately communicate about the transports, I doubt that.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
It's generally easier for someone fluent in a language to make themselves understood to someone who isn't than the other way around.

In other words Bosch may have understood what the shivans said almost perfectly while talking nonsense himself.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Shivans, Beams and The Great War.
So, what could have happened during their conversation was;


Bosch - "G'day lads, what would you say to an Alliance?"

Shivans - "...We have no idea what in the hell you're saying, so we're just going to kill you rather than let you suffer the embarrasment of looking like a Buffoon...just meet us here so we can kill you, toot sweet..."

Bosch - "Okaaay...the good thing is, i'm meeting new people"


So, really, the question i pose to that, is how in the heck could Bosch have understood what the Shivans were saying and yet completely have misunderstood their ulterior motives for meeting them...?