Author Topic: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 103347 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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*SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
SPOILERS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

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Ok, I'll ramp up to the more major spoilers further down, as a precaution, but that still means I'll be starting with minor spoilers. ;)

I loved the movie overall... 8/10. It was oddly long, and—unlike most good movies that are well over 2 hours—it felt long as well. That's not a bad thing since it's a great movie IMO, but there were just numerous "end sequences" where I thought (or feared for a cliff-hanger) it could have been the end, but it just kept going, LotR:RotK-style.

However, one thing that kept throwing me for a loop (or a literal facepalm) was those nonsensical bits where they disregard gravity and/or inertia. I mean, did nobody learn from Gravity (2013) and its casual disregard for orbital physics? It's not as if those laser shots during that movie-long chase sequence needed to have a ballistic trajectory for plot purposes. And those retarded bombers—kudos to them for making them Falcon-esque in size so as to carry a significant payload, but why no maneuverability whatsoever??—"dropping" their payload? As-in, opening the doors at bottom and letting that handy outer-space GRAVITY do the rest?? And why did their bombs have to be armed while still inside the blasted bombers? Even today's torpedoes and whatnot automatically arm a ways after exiting the launch tubes... And when that med-ship ran out of fuel, why did it suddenly run out of inertia as well??? *shakes head*

Don't get me wrong. Those are three issues that have either no effect, or very minor effect, on the story overall. But then again, that's just the point... why leave such inconsistencies in there when it wouldn't have taken much at all to fix them? The ballistic laser bolts didn't need to be ballistic. The bombs, instead of dropping with gravity-like acceleration towards the target, could have been launched out via active methods. And that med-ship running out of fuel could have meant its shields dropped, leaving it vulnerable to the faster fighters or something.

Anyway... on to the good stuff.

I liked that they finally showed Star Wars capital ships as having actual shields that block turbolaser shots. I know they had the planetary shield in Rogue One, but that was, well, planetary. IIRC this was a first for SW capships.

I liked that bit where BB-8 dropped down into his compartment in the X-wing to fix stuff. It always seemed a bit odd that R2 was able to conveniently fix everything from the outside of the ship.

MORE MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD.

Snoke - I did not see that coming.

I liked how there were bits of the movie where we actually thought Kylo was coming around.

I get that Luke was drained from what he did, but why did that have to mean:
Spoiler:
that he had to fade from existence? Couldn't he have just slept it off? I mean, now that leaves us with Ep 9 having no Han, no Leia, and no Luke.

When did you pick up that Luke at the end
Spoiler:
wasn't actually there
? I latched onto it the moment we saw his beard, since I'd noticed the difference between his beard "now," on the island, vs his beard in the Kylo Ren flashbacks. Thankfully, by the time he got out the door and faced off with what Kylo sent his way, I had kinda forgotten my suspicion, so I got the full "whoa... he's a bad-ass!" feeling shortly thereafter, which was fun.

From the last trailer, I was afraid the Porgs (those little bird things) were going to have an Ewok-level amount of involvement in the film. I always felt the Ewoks fit just fine, because they weren't utter nincompoops like the Gungans. But the Porgs seemed very Gungan-y from that trailer, and while they were indeed Gungan-y, their part was sufficiently minor that it didn't bother me much at all.

Jumping to lightspeed when there are obstacles in the way is very... effective. The entire audience gasped at that part. Very well done.

Poe taking out those turrets single-handedly was kinda silly TBH. Had he been a Jedi, ok, perhaps, but "just" as a great pilot? Ehh...

Finally... ok, so they're on the run and being actively chased by a fleet of Star Destroyers and whatnot. They call Maz up for some help, and she's like "Go to find so-and-so on this planet to help you sneak about that ship THAT'S RIGHT ON YOUR FREAKING TAIL AND CONSTANTLY BOMBARDING YOU WITH LAZOR BOLTZ BECAUSE THAT MAKES SENSE." That part bugged the heck outta me TBH. In no way did I feel like they had the free time to go on a jaunt like that considering their predicament at the time. I mean, that must have been some cruiser they had to take a constant pounding like that for what, 24-36 hours?, without losing shields? What was that ship in OH ANY SPACE BATTLE ANYWHERE??

*grumble grumble*

Still, solid 8/10. Good show, chaps!

Discuss.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

  

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The point was that the guns on the First Order fleet weren't quite in range so they couldn't damage the ship shields faster than they could recharge and the cruiser was fast enough to keep them at a distance.

I was able to see it in english and I liked it a lot.
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Offline potterman28wxcv

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I'm already half spoiled by the french title.. with "the last jedi", you don't know if it's singular or plural. In French, you have to specify whether it's singular or plural. They chose plural.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I'm already half spoiled by the french title.. with "the last jedi", you don't know if it's singular or plural. In French, you have to specify whether it's singular or plural. They chose plural.

The funny thing is about that, is that it's both misdirection and utterly irrelevant. :)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The Last Jedi, for those that have played the games, and the ST in general is what Obsidian's Sith Lords was to Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic.

It's a deconstruction, but also a reconstruction, of many of the series' sacred cows, and how much we THINK we know about its characters and themes.

Like, there are so many lines from Kreia that just absolute dig into what this film is about:

Quote
Sion: The failure is yours. No longer do your whispers crawl within my skull, no longer do we suffer beneath teachings that weaken us. And now you run in search of the Jedi... They are all dead, save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the darkness which is to come.
Kreia: Perhaps... We shall see.

Atton Rand: The Jedi... The Sith... You don't get it, do you? To the Galaxy, they're the same thing: Men and women with too much power, squabbling over religion, while the rest of us burn!
 
Vrook: You were deafened.
Kreia: At last you could hear.
Kavar: You were broken.
Kreia: You were whole.
Zez-Kai-Ell: You were blinded.
Kreia: And at last, you saw.

Kreia: A culture's teachings, and most importantly, the nature of its people, achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking. Too long did the Republic remain unchallenged. It is a stagnant beast that labors for breath; and has for centuries. The Jedi Order was the heart that sustained its sickness — now the Jedi are lost, we shall see how long the Republic can survive.

Kreia: You see, the war, the true war, has never been one waged by droids, warships, or soldiers. They are but crude matter, obstacles against which we test ourselves. The true war is waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own natures, light or dark. That is what shapes and binds this galaxy, not these creations of man. You are the battleground. And if you fall, the death of the Republic will be such a quiet thing, a whisper, that shall herald the darkness to come.

I can easily see this being a film that splits the fandom in two. Those that wanted just "more of the originals" and those who wanted something new.

The characters are all treated with the respect they were due, even if what they did with them was controversial.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
SNOKE KILLS DUMBLEDORE! :eek:
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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Right, so I got back from my first screening (and there will definately be another, while it's still on the big screen) of TLJ a little bit ago.  These are my preliminary thoughts, in the order in which they're falling out of my brain (horizontal dividers where I suddenly shift gears):

The first half of the script is a series of scenes that could be accurately summarized as:

[Effective dramatic moment]
[Ill-advised punchline]

Humor certainly has a place in Star Wars, but this reeked of a finished script being handed to a studio hack, only for it to be handed back with scribblings in the margins, "Add some JOKES!  Audiences love JOKES!"  It was just too much and in all the wrong places.  It was made more annoying by the fact that the film did such a great job of building dramatic tension within each scene (and ultimately over the arc of the entire film, once the jokes mercifully peeter out).

So, that half-way point.  You'll know it when you get to it, because it's a moment that is just an amazing cinematic experience.  I swear, everyone in the packed theater was holding their breath, because the room went dead silent.  The visuals froze in a moment of awe, and the people in charge of the film's sound design knew to leave several seconds of silence to just let the imagry sink in.

Also--and this is where I'm throwing euphemism to the wind and going full SPOILER--the film does a great job of introducing Vice Admiral Holdo as a betrayer of the Rebellion, leaving only ambiguity in whether that treason is through complacency or intention.  Then, as they do in so many other scenes, they turn your expectations against you, when Dameron discovers the reason behind abandoning the command ship and witnesses Holdo turn that ship into a lightspeed battering ram.

How about characters, then?

Obviously, I've got to start with Rey and Kylo Ren.  Again, the first half of the movie--and indeed, The Force Awakens--sets up expectations that this film is running Rey through a condensed version of Luke's arc in Empire and Return of the Jedi.  And then the lightsaber brawl (and it is a brawl) with Snoke's royal guard concludes, the script says to the audience, "LOLNOPE!"  Ren's interaction with Rey immediately following that fight retroactively earns all of the rehashing that TFA did in order to set up the twist.  I mean, unless the most recent remaster of Return redoes the ending such that Vader kicks Luke's face in, takes the Emperor's throne, and hunts the Rebellion to the last person.

Skywalker is a far more secondary character than he's made out to be in the trailers.  That's a good thing.  TLJ isn't primarily his story, so he shouldn't hog the spotlight.  When he does have it, he uses it well.  You get a real sense of the weight of his previous failures crushing him.  That plays into one last bit of character development that he gets, as a coda to his primary arc in the original trilogy, when Yoda makes a cameo to remind Luke that failure is a part of growth.

There's a big side-arc involving Finn and Rose, which feels rather out-of-place, given the part of the main plot that runs in parallel with it.  It feels like the whole casino adventure was meant to take days of in-universe time, and the writer only realized after it was written that the Rebel fleet has hours of fuel left for the chase sequence.  I get why it wasn't cut:  It's basically the entire time that Finn and Rose have to interact in this film, and they're being set up for more in Episode IX.  The compression of the timeframe makes the whole sequence feel inartful, though, especially the way that the film cuts back and forth between the Casino and the chase.

Finally, a couple of quotes from the film to respond to (and which will be lightly paraphrased, owing to not having a copy of the script in front of me):

Quote
We won't win this war by fighting what we hate; we'll win it by saving what we love.

I've been particularly emotional lately for reasons, but I'll admit that the feels got me good on that one.  Suck it, dark and gritty reboots!  Some of us want films where the protagonists find a bit of joy in the end!

Quote
You can't solve every problem by jumping into an X-Wing and blowing something up.

This is one of those lines that gets immediately trampled by an ill-advised joke.  In the moment, it feels like one of the better jokes in the first half of the film, but in the work as a whole, it's one of the worst offenders.  There's a running theme of attrition throughout the whole movie (it's arguably a secondary theme, but it's definately there), and in this first instance where it's explicitly addressed, it gets played for a laugh.

That's a little bit of a tangent, though, because I've been dying for a film to give a serious treatment of attrition and escalation for ages.  Superhero movies have been ignoring the effects of the ever-increasing amount of collateral damage inflicted by the battles they depict since basically the turn of the century.  I was really disappointed by the Power Rangers movie, since the power build up through a typical PR episode would--if handled just ever so slightly differently from the TV series--make a natural demonstration of the moral and physical hazards of escalating a conflict.  But yeah, that opportunity got squandered by a boilerplate superhero madlib script that just happened to have the Power Rangers slotted in.  Who knew that Star Wars would be the film to come along and say, "Hey, sometimes the giant space battle isn't a worthwhile solution"?

I definately want to give this one another watch.  There's a lot going on in TLJ, and I'd like to straighten it out a little more thoroughly in my mind, before engaging in a fuller discussion of the film's themes.  If it weren't for the JOKES! and the technical awkwardness of the casino scenes, this could easily be a high watermark for the series for me.

 
Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I'm concerned that the entire Resistance at the start of the film was comprised of a wing of heavy (sloooowwww) bombers and a half-dozen cruisers. How were they supposed to liberate even a single First Order-held system like that?

Anyway. RE: ships running out of fuel and falling back into range. I had no problem with that, because the movie is working on one of two physics systems: Either ships are constantly pushing against space in order to keep moving (like in FS and XWing games), so when they lose engine power, they stop. Or both forces are just constantly accelerating, but keeping the same rough distance apart, and when one stops accelerating, the pursuer can catch up.

Ballistic-arc turbolasers are dumb though, and those oversized B-wings were obnoxious.

And I felt the same way about many of the joke moments as BlueFlames did.

Overall, very enjoyable, and I look forward to seeing it again.

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Sincerely I think complaining about physics (and their consistency) in Star Wars is completely missing the point of these movies, I mean, have you seen, like, all the others?
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline starbug

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
So i have now seen Last Jedi, and to me instead of branching out to do something different, it feels like they made Empire Strikes back for 2017. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the film, but i don't know what film the critics are watching calling it a masterpiece etc. It has many many flaws.

First off, Snoke after being made to be them mega threat turns out to be a sidious rip off, that scene where he and rey are talking i couldn't help think, thats come straight from Return of the Jedi. Also snoke is useless.

Characters feel forced and flat, General hux for example is a like a brat who has chucked his toys out of his pram, instead of being well a general.  How he became a general is beyond me, he makes no tactical desicions other than shout and rant at people on how hard is it to destroy one figther. The relationship between Finn and Rose is forced, Kylo still has his temper tantrums and cant be taken seriously.  The ending is bad, i mean bad. I was expect Luke to be bad ass, as he should be at the height of his force powers and we get that! It feels like they forgot that the film needed to end and thought crap we need to end this film, someone just write something. The humor was tacked on and forced and was out of place for what was meant to be a darker film.

It did have good points and i did enjoy it, I loved seeing Adrian Edmondson(Eddie from Bottom) in the film and was a better character than Hux! but its a film i wouldnt pay to see at the cinema, i would wait until home release. I still want to know what film the critics saw?
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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Sincerely I think complaining about physics (and their consistency) in Star Wars is completely missing the point of these movies.

Yeah, Star Wars has always been soft sci-fi.  Like, it's a fantasy story that happens to be set in space.  Star Trek is the big franchise you're looking for, if you want to nitpick the physics and internal logic of a sci-fi universe.

So i have now seen Last Jedi, and to me instead of branching out to do something different, it feels like they made Empire Strikes back for 2017. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the film, but i don't know what film the critics are watching calling it a masterpiece etc. It has many many flaws.

First off, Snoke after being made to be them mega threat turns out to be a sidious rip off, that scene where he and rey are talking i couldn't help think, thats come straight from Return of the Jedi.

Did you walk out in the middle of that scene?  Yeah, all of TFA and the bulk of TLJ up to that point is setting you up to feel like this is a straight rehash of Empire and Return, but Kylo Ren's reaction to the death of Snoke, immediately following him and Rey killing off the royal guards, is where TLJ makes a hard turn into new territory.  Where Vader gave up the Dark Side in order to kill the Emperor, Ren killed Snoke in an embrace of the Dark Side.  Vader helped crush the old Empire.  Ren created a vacancy on the throne for himself.  That's a wild digression from Return, and it sends the second half of TLJ and presumably the entirety of Episode IX into new territory.

You can say that's too much screentime in rehash mode, before getting to the turn, and fair enough, but you missed the second half of TLJ if you feel like the whole movie was a rehash of Empire and Return.

 

Offline starbug

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I watched the whole movie, yes kylo killing snoke is a departure to RotJ, but the attack at the end, is very battle of hoth, you've got the trenches, the turrets and the walkers.  I did love the lightspeed ram, that was a beautiful shot, but i don't know the movie didnt do anything new for the franchise for me.
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Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
So i have now seen Last Jedi, and to me instead of branching out to do something different, it feels like they made Empire Strikes back for 2017. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the film, but i don't know what film the critics are watching calling it a masterpiece etc. It has many many flaws.

First off, Snoke after being made to be them mega threat turns out to be a sidious rip off, that scene where he and rey are talking i couldn't help think, thats come straight from Return of the Jedi. Also snoke is useless.

Characters feel forced and flat, General hux for example is a like a brat who has chucked his toys out of his pram, instead of being well a general.  How he became a general is beyond me, he makes no tactical desicions other than shout and rant at people on how hard is it to destroy one figther. The relationship between Finn and Rose is forced, Kylo still has his temper tantrums and cant be taken seriously.  The ending is bad, i mean bad. I was expect Luke to be bad ass, as he should be at the height of his force powers and we get that! It feels like they forgot that the film needed to end and thought crap we need to end this film, someone just write something. The humor was tacked on and forced and was out of place for what was meant to be a darker film.

It did have good points and i did enjoy it, I loved seeing Adrian Edmondson(Eddie from Bottom) in the film and was a better character than Hux! but its a film i wouldnt pay to see at the cinema, i would wait until home release. I still want to know what film the critics saw?

Hux is literally the son of one of the big shots of the old empire who founded the First Order so yeah, him coming off as a brat is intentional since he's only there because of family connections.
Remember that the First Order is basically a meaner version of the old Empire and the old Empire was rife with upper class twits that were not very capable, even in Rebels the only reason Thrawn doesn't kill or capture all the protagonists is basically because his own underlings do stupid things instead of following the orders of the only guy that knows how to get **** done.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:11:00 am by Det. Bullock »
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 
Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I watched the whole movie, yes kylo killing snoke is a departure to RotJ, but the attack at the end, is very battle of hoth, you've got the trenches, the turrets and the walkers.

I think you might be missing the themes for the aesthetic.  Similar imagry is being used to very different effect.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Thought this was the best Disney star wars, but there were a bunch of things added that hurt it and should have just been removed. The casino thing should have been completely cut, it added nothing and was massively out of place, everything this did could have been done better without leaving the chase/battle. There were also a lot of wierd goofy cgi animals that should have been cut, those little rabit penguins and the ice foxes in particular. There were a lot of awkward jokes that would have been better left on the cuttingroom floor. And the force projection thing with luke was absolutely unneeded and only made things more complicated, would have been better without it and have him just disappear when he got cut like with Ben Kenobi.
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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Awwww, I liked the glaceons!

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
This review nails it.

After letting it settle, I am disappoint. With the entire Disney direction for Star Wars, that is. I wish to God that they had chosen to just do to the Thrawn trilogy what Peter Jackson did for Lord of the Rings; make movies that truly encompassed and portrayed the genius in the books, without sacrificing anything painful (let's face it, it wasn't painful not to have Tom Bombadil). Sure, adjust the books to account for the actors' ages (somehow; I'm no writer), but keep the essential genius that was Thrawn.

But now, instead of a genius tactician waging a war of surgical strikes, masterful maneuvers, and resource balancing vs attrition, we have a petulant boy-man who—no offense to Adam Driver—looks like a wimp.

I've said it before and I'll say it again—stories need quality antagonists to be extraordinary. Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight. Sauron & Gollum in Lord of the Rings. Philip Seymour Hoffman in Mission: Impossible 3. Darth Vader in the OT.

These Star Wars movies, while better in many ways than the prequels, have severe issues that really affect them for the worse.

*sigh*

I just hope I live long enough to see a big-screen (or TV!) adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I liked it overall. It was pretty long but there were a lot of different subplots going on. If they had to kill Luke though, it would have been better if he just got blown up normally instead of becoming that hologram ghost.

The Last Jedi, for those that have played the games, and the ST in general is what Obsidian's Sith Lords was to Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic.

It's a deconstruction, but also a reconstruction, of many of the series' sacred cows, and how much we THINK we know about its characters and themes.

It does touch on this theme but I felt they could have done a lot more with it. I was a big fan of this perspective in KOTOR 2. Luke initially says the same things about the Jedi and the Force as Kreia did in that game, but by the end the story seems to have forgotten all that and has reverted to the usual clear-cut light (Rey and Luke) vs dark (Ren) fare.

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However, one thing that kept throwing me for a loop (or a literal facepalm) was those nonsensical bits where they disregard gravity and/or inertia.

I thought the most absurd part was when Leia got spaced and survived just fine, seemingly only suffering from a loss of air. :p

 

Offline Mpez

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I liked this film because it finally tried to do something different with the format and that didn't mean making it dark and gritty and grey.

I think there is a general consensus that the Leia superman scene and the casino sequence didn't work. Also, the way they designed the bombers didn't make any sense and didn't add anything to the film. The fact that a Star Destroyer apparently can't shoot a single Xwing was also jarring. That sequence could've still made sense if they just used different bombers and more xwings.

At first I didn't like the way Snoke died, but then realised it was a pretty darn good example of the Sith padawan always trying to seize the opportunity of killing his master to show that he has finally become more powerful. Sure, it was a bit lackluster because everyone wanted to know more about Snoke and predicted he would have a bigger impact on the story. On the other hand, I think it defied expectations and just... worked.

The main problem with the twists was that the lead up to every twist felt cheesy. E.g. when Luke appeared at the final planet it felt super cheesy and deus ex machina like. Only when it turned out he just projected himself there then I though 'ok, that makes more sense to me'.

As for the humour... I think that some SW fans tend to forget that the original trilogy had a lot of goofy elements, e.g. ewoks and Yoda. The humour worked for me, but I can understand that it might have been a bit too much for other people. Might've been trimmed a bit.

Last thing I would like to point out - I can understand people not liking the film because it didn't stay super true to the lore fundamentals the original trilogy introduced. You could probably nitpick at it for ages and I usually do that with other series e.g. Game of thrones. But when I saw the bombers at first I just said to myself 'f##k it, this is Star wars, a fantasy adventure film in space' and I enjoyed the ride. I think the film stayed true to the general... feeling and atmosphere the original trilogy had.

EDIT: typos
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:44:27 am by Mpez »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I liked this film a fair bit (and it left me with a lot to think about) but I have never seen a major pop culture movie where the people who dislike it so clearly, totally do not understand the movie. It's like some sort of forcing function for comprehending stories.